[18:25] holstein: Actually, len may be doing more coding than me, so there's at least the two of us :). [18:26] I'm not burned out, so don't worry about me [18:27] oh, im not worried that you are burned out [18:27] But, there is a problem with how we deal with a lot of stuff - mainly because our community is too small [18:27] its that, you *will* .. since, there is literally no plan in place to swap leads [18:27] you just go, til, somewhere, behind closed doors, you hand it off to someone [18:27] That's not my plan though [18:27] we should just document it as such, thats all [18:28] My plan has always been to have an election, but for one to take place - with members who know what they are voting for, we need more people actively involved [18:28] Also, there needs to be more than one other person to vote for [18:28] i assure you, im not interested in beind lead [18:29] i was, as i told you, personally, in PM,when the lead position was handed over to you, interested in entertaining someone like falk, or the AVlinux creator.. for example [18:30] Can't hand anything over to anyone who doesn't do Ubuntu Studio development [18:30] lol [18:30] The only way to do this is to do this [18:30] they would do whatever it takes, and be voted on.. [18:31] anyways, ideally, i think it was be great if you or len were MOTU's.. whatevrer sponsorship, $$, or work that takes.. [18:31] I have upload rights for our packages, so that's always something [18:31] I also have access to Debian multimedia sources [18:32] Neither falktx or the AVLinux guy (to my knowledge) have been even trying to get into that [18:32] That's kind of the problem [18:32] right [18:32] and why? [18:32] why are we not attracting that kind of talent? [18:32] No one is stopping them [18:33] right.. so, again... why? [18:33] It's up to them what they want to do [18:33] what limitations? can we do something to attract them? do we need to? etc.. [18:33] It's not like there there are a lot of barriers in the way [18:33] It's pretty open to whoever has the interest [18:33] If you don't have the interest, well.. [18:34] you would think.. so whats up? [18:34] thats all i would like to know, and address [18:34] is it upstream? is it not having support in the work flow? is it *us* here? etc [18:34] I think it's mostly personal stuff, but that's my opinion [18:34] not that we have to make it a goal to be attractive.. but, why are folks not working with us, and making their own stuff? [18:35] No one here is stopping anyone from doing stuff [18:35] falktx doesn't want to do things the hard way - following a policy made by a community [18:35] right.. the door is open, i get that.. but to what? [18:36] That's my interpretation of what he told me, anyway [18:36] He likes to do things his own way. [18:36] That doesn't work [18:36] nah [18:36] I mean, to a limit [18:36] thats what ubuntu is ;) [18:36] someone setting up a way, and the community following it, and re-defining it [18:36] falk is talented. if he wanted to get more involved upstream.. etc [18:37] Everyone is welcome to continue the work, but you also have to respect the work [18:37] anyways, its deoesnt have to be falk.. [18:37] do you have to repect the work? [18:37] None of falktx applications have been packaged in Debian yet [18:37] respect what work? where? [18:37] you mean, they have to "respect upstream"? and who does? anyone? [18:37] What work? The work that the community does, for Debian, and Ubuntu [18:37] its not documented that respect is part of the equation.. etc.. [18:38] You have to respect the policies, and other stuff that the community has agreed on, in one way or another [18:38] YOu cant just bypass everything [18:38] But, if you want to, you can always start your own distro [18:39] Part of the limitation with US is that we have to work with our repo. Often the version of a major app or utility we are stuck with in an LTS ends up broken. [18:39] well, there was a suggestion to breakk it off into a PPA [18:39] which, i think is a valid conversation [18:39] Jackd2 in 14.04 as an example. [18:40] putting it in a ppa, makes it the same as falk's work [18:40] if we, based on work flow, are *always* limited by that, and releasing something that is always behind, or, not good enough, then, its something to discuss, for sure [18:41] I got to go, sorry. But, I will be available a lot more the coming week. Planning to do a lot of work then. [18:41] anyways, this is the kind of thing we can discuss at meetings.. which, i will hopefully be having time for setting up in the fall [18:41] I am speaking from mostly an audio POV for sure as I don't do enough of anyting else [18:43] i would like to speak constructively about how to identify, and potentially address what may keep contributors from joining [18:43] "respect" is not a requirement ;) [18:44] encouragement probably is [18:44] its not documented anywhere that i know of.. folks disagree all the time, and identify, and address, and change things.. it doenst have to be a sign of disrespect to want to change things.. [18:44] I agree [18:45] i would just like to brainstorm.. why do folks start their own spins, instead of contributing here, to US [18:45] if its because we are always limited to the repo, can we address that? do we need to maintain an official port, etc.. [18:46] if its, "its just too hard to properly work with upstream ubuntu", then, we need to mention that to upstream, and see about getting a liason, or whatever.. [18:46] If you look at kzstudio, it always has the latest fixes. Even quicker than they get to debian, let alone ubuntu. [18:47] yup [18:47] and if thats the appeal, how do we compete with that? and do we need to? [18:47] The day after (hour after?) ardour 4.1 was out, it was in kxstudio [18:47] ubuntu-mate is going to implement some form of 'work flows' soon.. meta packages for different production [18:47] are we being made irrelevant? [18:48] we dont contrbute any code, other than the low latency kernel, AFAIK [18:48] so, could we just do that? just be "the ubuntustudio kernel"..? [18:48] When people ask for a recomended distro, it is almost never Studio. [18:48] again.. just brain storming.. but, having a kernel, in the main repo, that works well.. that would contribute to everyone.. [18:49] Yes. [18:49] OvenWerks: its always specifically, that ubuntustudio is *not* a good choice [18:49] kx uses it :) [18:49] OvenWerks: i challenge it, and am usually met with "ok, i havent actually tried it in years".. or whatever [18:50] but still.. its a bad reputation.. and i would like to, from the ground up, look at all the moving parts.. or, non-moving parts, and see what we need to do to fit whatever goals it is we have [18:50] who is we? etc.. [18:50] holstein: I think there are some things in the linux world that are not generally done right for audio. [18:50] OvenWerks: for audio production, for sure.. and are we always burned by that? if so, the PPA thing sounds like a good idea [18:51] though, then, we compete with falk.. [18:51] right [18:51] i have to run, or i will miss the double gigs i have.. cheers! [18:51] I think the (semi)pro audio linux world needs to start with running jack from session start [18:51] holstein: o/