[00:00] <diddledan> no warning. just suddenly gone
[00:00] <zmoylan-pi> overheat?
[00:00] <diddledan> maybe?
[00:01] <m0nkey_> blame the gremlins
[00:02] <m0nkey_> or blame me. i h4ckerz y0u b0x3n
[00:17] <diddledan> :-p
[00:17] <diddledan> m0nkey_: that scares me, because you actually do know where I live :-p
[00:17] <diddledan> mind you I'm fairly open about my location
[00:18] <diddledan> most the regulars in here prolly have a vague recollection of my location
[00:18] <diddledan> hint: roundabouts. and not swindon.
[00:18] <penguin42> I like Barnards star?
[00:19]  * zmoylan-pi looks over diddledan's shoulder with drone...
[00:28] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: be honest, you're perving at me from my wardrobe
[00:29] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you're gonna jump out later with a ski mask and a giant chopper
[00:29] <diddledan> and I'll say: "myy, what a big thingy you have"
[00:29] <zmoylan-pi> DID YOU SEE MY NEW SKI MASK AND AXE??
[01:31] <mapito> mornning;]
[01:31] <diddledan> allo
[02:56] <diddledan> don't you love how hackers send each other viruses in public email chains? (I have numerous viruses that get flagged-up when downloading my gmail archive in thunderbird)
[02:57] <diddledan> not that I'm a hacker. I subscribe to the full-disclosure mailing list
[02:57] <diddledan> so I get them as a byproduct
[03:09] <mapito> haha really
[03:16] <diddledan> I think I need a new cpufan
[03:16] <diddledan> or rather the heatsink
[03:16] <diddledan> mine is completely caked in dust. not sure I can clean it easily
[03:17] <diddledan> I think it's causing the system to shutdown due to overheat
[03:52] <mapito> hmm
[03:52] <mapito> fell aslee somewhere during true detectiv
[04:26] <ball> Mornin'
[04:37] <diddledan> balls
[04:37] <diddledan> :-p
[04:37] <diddledan> ello
[04:38] <mapito> morning
[04:45] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[05:47] <mapito> finised e2 of true detective;]
[06:02] <diddledan> welldone
[06:02] <diddledan> :-p
[06:02] <mapito> ;)
[06:03] <mapito> you seen any
[06:03] <diddledan> not yet
[06:03] <diddledan> I must add it to my list
[06:15] <shauno> uff, I really don't want to be awake today
[06:16] <mapito> ;]
[06:16] <mapito> just got iup
[06:16] <mapito> ?
[06:17] <shauno> sorta.  just turned the lights back on  lol
[06:18]  * brobostigon makes shauno an espresso injection.
[06:19]  * shauno rolls up sleeve
[06:19] <brobostigon> :)
[06:21] <knightwise> morning peeps
[06:21] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[06:23] <knightwise> how are you guys doin today .
[06:23]  * knightwise has 2 episodes of Mr Robot to catch up on for tomorrow : )
[06:23]  * brobostigon is having trouble with his hay fever.
[06:24] <knightwise> damn brobostigon :( that sucks
[06:24] <knightwise> know how that feels from time to time
[06:24] <knightwise> all those trees ejaculating up your nose
[06:25] <brobostigon> yes, couldnt sleep, contanstly runny nose and sneeses, its horrid.
[06:26] <shauno> oh oh I got my letter through .. I have a postcode now!
[06:27] <knightwise> Hooked up my old Raspberry pi to the network last night.
[06:27] <shauno> 9 years of trying to trick websites are finally over
[06:27] <knightwise> Running Nagios on :)
[06:27] <brobostigon> is it a place that didnt have a postcode previously, like antarctica?
[06:27] <knightwise> shauno: underground nuclear bunker ?
[06:28] <shauno> most of ireland (eg, outside of Dublin) didn't have postcodes until a week or two ago
[06:28] <knightwise> shauno: where U at ?
[06:28] <brobostigon> interesting.
[06:29] <shauno> I guess they never needed them because the postman already knew everybody & everybody's business.  but now we've been brought kicking and screaming into the 20th century.
[06:41] <knightwise> silly question : I'm on a ubuntu machine
[06:42] <knightwise> i am ssh'd into a headless raspberry pi (who just has a commandn line interface)
[06:42] <knightwise> i want to edit a file (i can do that with nano)
[06:42] <knightwise> but what if i want to edit a config file on the remote raspberry pi with something like Gedit (that is only installed on my own machine ? )
[06:44] <knightwise> in essence : open a remote file (via ssh) with a local copy of gedit
[07:01] <MooDoo> :) morning all
[07:03] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
[07:04] <MooDoo> :)
[07:11] <shauno> oh boy.  it's mcaffee day :/
[07:13] <MooDoo> mcaffee?
[07:15] <shauno> once a month it wants to do a full scan.  so I get to spend all day trying to catch every single defer dialog in the 15 seconds it gives me, before it takes my laptop back to the stone age
[07:18] <MooDoo> booooo
[07:44] <knightwise> mcaffee : like pouring frozen honey onto your harddrive platters
[07:57] <MooDoo> bloomin kvm/ubuntu/webservers boooooooooooooooo
[08:00] <MooDoo> rats can't connect to my webserver sigh!
[08:09] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:10] <bashrc> morning
[08:17] <TwistedLucidity> Good Evening (Alhpa release)
[08:20] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[08:20] <MooDoo> et al
[08:21] <davmor2> MooDoo: morning head songs updated see if you can guess the film I'm watching tonight ;)
[08:22]  * TwistedLucidity is wondering what MooDoo wants rats to access their webserver....
[08:24] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: to stop the cats sleeping on them http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c41_1386822938
[08:25] <popey> morning
[08:25] <davmor2> popey: how's the email this morning?
[08:25] <popey> super
[08:25] <popey> super full :)
[08:26] <davmor2> super fun you were going for I know ;)
[08:28] <MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: i'd love to be able to access it myself :(
[09:08] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Space Exploration Day! 😃
[09:12] <davmor2> JamesTait: man that explains that growth on your forehead, It's the final front ear, Thank you I'm here all week :D
[09:12]  * JamesTait groans
[09:14] <davmor2> JamesTait: definitely a day for this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE
[09:17] <zmoylan-pi> that joke is not up to spock...
[09:22] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I got up early, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it :)
[09:28] <zmoylan-pi> it's just such an old joke that it's barely klingon to life
[09:32] <knightwise> well ,space exploration day is better then mcaffee day;
[09:33] <zmoylan-pi> could you not let it run overnight to tame the beast?
[10:12] <davmor2> knightwise: You complain too much ;)
[10:16] <ujjain> Anybody here using aptly?
[10:16] <ujjain> I keep on getting issues with locked databases, because apparantly you can only run 1 command at a time. ERROR: can't open database: resource temporarily unavailable
[10:17] <shauno> pretty much anything that touches dpkg or apt has that though, no ?
[10:17] <davmor2> knightwise: just think it could be Norton week instead ;)
[10:19] <foobarry> why is wine still not 64 bit?
[10:27] <davmor2> foobarry: because the intergalatic overlord won't use 64bit?  I assume it is because nearly all windows apps are still actually 32bit
[10:28] <foobarry> they are?
[10:29] <davmor2> foobarry: they are :)
[10:29] <davmor2> foobarry: and nearly all of the ones supported by wine are xp based so definitely 32bit :)
[10:30] <davmor2> foobarry: Windows struggled to get drivers for their 64bit OS till windows 7 I think and even then it was slow so devs targeted 32bit still
[10:31] <foobarry> the summary is i need to install 600mb of 32bit packages jsut to install wine
[10:40] <popey> 600m seems excessive
[10:40] <popey> maybe exaggeration?
[10:40] <popey> or poor packaging
[10:42]  * popey hugs ncdu
[10:42]  * popey considers a larger SSD for laptop
[10:42] <shauno> you see samsung have a 2tb one now?
[10:42] <popey> blimey
[10:42] <popey> thing is my laptop has ssd 7mm and msata ssd
[10:43] <foobarry> 592mb
[10:43] <shauno> no kidding.  that's like .. twice as big as the last one I couldn't afford
[10:43] <foobarry> need to get 171mb of archives, and after this 594mb will be used
[10:44] <popey> so you have zero 32-bit apps on your system right now?
[10:46] <foobarry> i have a few
[10:46] <foobarry> 69
[10:46] <popey> wonder what else it's pulling in then
[11:02] <shauno> lol, I just figured out why it's so quiet at work.  our ssl cert expired and someone's replaced it with a self-signed one.  so none of our appliances will connect.
[11:04] <brobostigon> wooops.
[11:05]  * popey spies 500GB msata
[11:05] <popey> only problem is getting my data from one msata to the other
[11:05] <shauno> I think I'm gonna go for a walk, since it's going to be very, very quiet for .. hopefully only hours  lol
[11:05] <popey> ooh, 9 quid msata to sata adapter.. could work
[11:07] <diddledan> shauno: lol
[11:07] <diddledan> shauno: that was a silly move by whomever
[11:09] <shauno> way past silly, and into the realms of corporal punishment
[12:15] <diddledan> I should eat something
[12:19] <popey> good idea
[12:38] <awilkins> shauno, DERP. If you control the domain you can get a class 1 cert for FREE.
[12:38] <awilkins> shauno, Whoever did the self-signed one is a dufus
[12:39] <shauno> indeed
[13:41] <diddledan> shauno: still dead?
[14:08] <daftykins> directhex: nah it was me using xbox one streaming from Windows 10 to play Batman: AK :)
[14:13] <directhex> thatsthejoke.gif
[14:13] <daftykins> ah my away log did not convey much of that kind :P
[14:14] <daftykins> the twitch streamer i watched play it had it running ace though
[14:14] <daftykins> guy had an older GTX 770
[14:42] <diddledan> WEEEE
[14:43] <daftykins> diddledan: 'lo sir, what's happening?
[14:43] <shauno> dan broked it
[14:43] <diddledan> daftykins: not much. just killing IRC servers :-p
[14:44] <daftykins> :D
[14:44] <diddledan> why does jamestait get more time till he times-out?
[14:44]  * zmoylan-pi reels at the sensation of a 1000 geeks falling silent... ;-)
[14:44] <diddledan> everyone else gets 248 seconds, he gets 620?!
[14:44] <daftykins> such bias ;)
[14:48] <penguin42> friendly peers
[15:17] <JamesTait> diddledan, don't hate the player, hate the game. 😉
[15:17] <diddledan> JamesTait: dammit, now I just lost!
[15:18]  * JamesTait does a little vistory dance.
[15:18] <JamesTait> *victory
[15:18] <JamesTait> History victory - vistory.
[15:18] <JamesTait> *ahem*
[15:19] <diddledan> just because of that, I'm going to link you all to http://www.losethegame.net/
[15:25] <foobarry> anyone ever work for a company who decided that wearing ID cards on lanyards is compulsory, but not for security reasons?
[15:26] <diddledan> what could be a valid reason that isn't security?
[15:26] <foobarry> corporate branding to the rest of the company that you are part of teh marvellous IT team
[15:27] <ali1234> so that customers know the name of the person they are talking too
[15:27] <diddledan> \o/
[15:27] <foobarry> nope
[15:27] <foobarry> you don't have to wear the ID card
[15:27] <ali1234> it always makes me cringe when people try to casually turn around their name badge
[15:27] <foobarry> its more important to wear the lanyard
[15:27] <foobarry> they are getting a hard on about lanyards not the ID
[15:27] <shauno> this is like an ultra-cheap version of startrek uniforms?
[15:28] <shauno> you're a red-shirt?
[15:28] <shauno> err .. red-lanyard
[15:29] <penguin42> so you mean you have to have the lanyard and not just stick it to your forehead?
[15:29] <foobarry> i would resign rather than wear a dehumanising lanyard
[15:30] <daftykins> another fine day in #ubuntu
[15:30] <foobarry> i would wear a uniform or a suit but not a lanyard
[15:30] <daftykins> gotta help those youngsters get the max framerates in their pew pew games
[15:30]  * penguin42 loves not having to work in an office any more
[15:30] <shauno> but if you don't have a collar, anyone who finds you will take you to the stray shelter?
[15:31] <daftykins> you might have a chip!
[15:31] <penguin42> on your shoulder? Yes, most IT guys have
[15:31] <shauno> I'm totally in favour of chipping humans
[15:31] <daftykins> :D
[15:32] <penguin42> shauno: with ketchup or mayo?
[15:32] <daftykins> my friend that's visiting just started work up in my office, as it's work time in Texas
[15:32] <shauno> ketchup I guess, I'm not belgian
[15:32] <shauno> but a little subdermal one like we're quite happy to put in our dear pets.  in the hand, so the keyboard/laptop/doorhandle/etc can tell it's your hand.  that'd be neat
[15:32] <daftykins> pretty fancy HP laptop
[15:34] <penguin42> shauno: Could be useful if someone finds you wondering the streets
[15:37] <diddledan> shauno: the problem with that is a hand will now become a viable target for severance
[15:37] <shauno> in scripts, sure.  in the real world, not so much
[15:38] <diddledan> see this is why I'm worried about microsoft hello. I could cope just about with losing my finger or hand, but losing my head is a bit terminal
[15:38] <diddledan> daftykins: yey for pewpew games
[15:39] <daftykins> ;)
[15:39] <penguin42> diddledan: There are some ID things based on palm vain patterns, they require IR absorption from oxygenated blood
[15:43] <zmoylan-pi> and if it becomes popular enough some smart sod will find a way to fake it to bypass it
[15:44] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: all you need is a transfusion kit
[15:45] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Probably yes, but it might be easier to do it without extracting your hand
[15:45] <zmoylan-pi> no no, you'd take the arm for making it so difficult for the crooks :-)
[15:47] <zmoylan-pi> whenever some goes on about biometrics i tell them to google malaysia machete mercedes http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4396831.stm
[15:49] <diddledan> yey for ancient bbc news webpage layout
[15:49] <shauno> this is where humans are terrible at judging risks.  just because it happened once, somewhere, doesn't mean it's a real and ongoing concern for the vast, vast majority of us
[15:49] <zmoylan-pi> but it does stop the it'll never happen brigade
[15:50] <shauno> well, don't worry, I'm sure no-one will chop your finger off for your nokia :)
[15:51] <zmoylan-pi> and we know from incidents with pintos and ignitions and airbags that car companies will spend a lot of money paying of and hushing up bad news
[15:51] <zmoylan-pi> my nokia is my primary weapon :-)
[15:55] <daftykins> diddledan: yip, makes me cringe at MS advertising with kids saying their lives will be better with Windows 10 as they'll "never need to know the hassles of passwords"
[15:59] <shauno> why's that a bad thing?
[16:02] <daftykins> the tech they refer to is biometric in Windows Hello i think
[16:02] <daftykins> total joke
[16:03] <zmoylan-pi> but it's not explained to non technical people that way
[16:04] <daftykins> why does that bear any relevance?
[16:06] <penguin42> what does Hello use instead?
[16:17] <daftykins> penguin42: sorry, got delayed - "With Windows Hello, you’ll be able to just show your face, or touch your finger, to new devices running Windows 10 and be immediately recognized.  And not only is Windows Hello more convenient than typing a password—it’s more secure!"
[16:18] <bashrc> so I just print out a photo of someone and show it to windows 10?
[16:19] <awilkins> It makes you blink
[16:19] <awilkins> It signals you to blink within a set interval
[16:19] <awilkins> So you'll at least need a Vine or Youtube vid of someone with a blink in it
[16:20] <bashrc> do some photo editing
[16:20] <awilkins> Well, yeah, that too
[16:20] <bashrc> how long before there's a utility which takes a photo and produces a blinking animation?
[16:21] <bashrc> read photo. Apply opencv face detector. Find eyes. Use skin colour to produce blink animation
[16:21] <awilkins> It is indeed, bloody stupid. But already a feature on Android (and probably iPhone) and no-one moans about that.
[16:22] <awilkins> And as for lanyards... I always kept my ID card in my pocket
[16:22] <bashrc> ...run blink animation on button press, so you can run it on a tablet
[16:23] <awilkins> In my train pass wallet.
[16:24] <penguin42> awilkins: Actually there was lots of moans about the android one when it came out
[16:30] <daftykins> penguin42: yeah i remember that was bypassed by facebook snaps easily enough
[16:32] <penguin42> but the blink idea isn't too bad - easy to fix though, I imagine it'll move onto things asking you to cringe or smile or the like
[16:32] <daftykins> :D
[16:32] <daftykins> i don't even hugely want to touch peoples phones that have the fingerprint sensors on the home buttons
[16:38] <zmoylan-pi> i hope they've tested the blink one on asian folk before releasing it this time... http://iwastesomuchtime.com/on/?i=4958
[16:44] <diddledan> actually windows hello's face recognition requires an infrared depth-capable webcam
[16:44] <diddledan> so it requires a bust of the target rather than a photo
[16:46] <daftykins> well hot-diggity-daym
[16:46] <daftykins> :D
[16:46] <penguin42> ok, that's not entirely insane
[16:46] <zmoylan-pi> so project photo onto a 3d head form...
[16:46] <penguin42> a warm 3d head form - from a microwave
[16:46] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: it needs to be the correct dimensions
[16:47] <diddledan> i.e. you can't use a photo of me from facebook projected onto a random shop manequin
[16:47] <zmoylan-pi> whenever i hear about hi tech security i remind myself of the australian firewall.  millions spent on firewall to make a secure internet beaten in 5 minutes by horny teenager
[16:47] <diddledan> o_O
[16:49] <zmoylan-pi> at my last job they sent our security 'expert' on a course to secure windows networks connected to internet to stop staff browsing porn.  he came back set up a network.  the office perv stepped up to keyboard.  double clicked my computer and for drive letter typed in gayporn.com and bingo...
[16:50] <penguin42> haha
[16:50]  * diddledan bookmarks
[16:51] <zmoylan-pi> when we had dialup and only the 2 bosses had the password for internet he wrote a vb app that imitated dial up login. and had it send passwords to text file on network share.
[16:51] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i don't get what setting the drive label would've done o0
[16:51]  * penguin42 likes spotting the dumb physical mistakes in buildings - like lifts that go past swipe entry doors, or power switches to security locks on the outside of the area
[16:52] <zmoylan-pi> where you type in c:\ in windows explorer.  if you type www.google.com it brings up a web page in explorer
[16:52] <diddledan> if the tech had done his job correctly that should be filtered by the internet proxy
[16:52] <zmoylan-pi> explorer used a whole different set of restrictions than internet explorer
[16:53] <diddledan> i.e. if he set the internet explorer settings to point to a proxy then windows explorer will also use the same proxy
[16:53] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: no
[16:53] <zmoylan-pi> each and every restriction they installed was bypassed in a few minutes
[16:53] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: IE is too entrenched in windows that the proxy settings persist
[16:53] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: oh the address bar in explorer, ok
[16:53] <zmoylan-pi> if...
[16:53] <diddledan> IE's internet settings window is actually the system internet settings
[16:54] <diddledan> and also. if you're trying to filter the internet then you should at least block outgoing port 80 from anything except your poxy proxy
[16:55] <diddledan> basically if this porn addict bypassed it so easily then that security expert isn't
[16:56] <zmoylan-pi> it wasn't a porn addict.  we just hated seeing a half assed job done and like poking holes in bad solutions
[16:56] <diddledan> don't you love americans. I'm watching the visual studio 2015 launch keynote and they've got european footballers talking, in english, and they have put subtitles on the video, in english.
[16:57] <zmoylan-pi> when my brother was in australia on honeymoon he went to see the commitments movie about a band in dublin there.  they handed out cards explaining the terms used...
[16:57] <daftykins> :D
[16:57] <daftykins> diddledan: but there are foreign devs too who might not handle the accent!
[16:57] <davmor2> diddledan: ah but did it translate the gibberish they come out with to English?
[16:58] <diddledan> davmor2: it was prebaked subtitles
[16:58] <diddledan> i.e. they had someone who spoke english to listen to the english and translate it to english
[16:59] <davmor2> I bet it was translated to American not English :P
[16:59] <zmoylan-pi> the way things are going they'll someday start adding/removing the u in colour using cgi for american/european audiences...
[16:59] <diddledan> and then they use an indian with a much thicker accent to do the keynote live with no subtitles
[21:00] <daftykins> hmm out of band Windows patch for some font issue or some such
[21:00] <daftykins> oops :>
[21:10] <shauno> when you say "font issue" you mean "remote code execution"?
[21:11] <daftykins> odd, it says shauno beside that comment and not zmoylan-pi :D
[21:11] <shauno> ;)
[21:11] <shauno> https://technet.microsoft.com/library/security/MS15-078
[21:12] <zmoylan-pi> that's slander that is... i'd have said m$ :-)
[21:12] <daftykins> XD
[21:14] <shauno> interesting that they put it out before patch-tuesday.  I take it there must be some quite immediate concern if waiting one day wasn't do-able?
[21:16] <daftykins> yeah out of band patch
[21:16] <daftykins> means maybe just visiting a website could've exploited a system i think
[21:17] <zmoylan-pi> damn you comic sans!! :-D
[21:19] <daftykins> ugh :P
[21:20] <daftykins> i still remember being asked by an English teacher in 2002 "which font is it everyone always uses?"
[21:20] <daftykins> or typeface as my old man would have me call 'em
[21:20]  * zmoylan-pi nods at use of term typeface...
[21:21] <shauno> not sure you can blame comic sans, that's truetype not opentype :)  this one's Adobe's lol  (yeah, surprise!)
[21:21] <daftykins> and i think he said font was truly size of text
[21:21] <zmoylan-pi> so... adobe software being normal then...
[21:21] <daftykins> seems about right
[21:21] <daftykins> hmm i probably still need to do the rounds again on pesky flash
[21:22] <daftykins> probably isn't quite so great looking to just email clients and say "hey guys, update this"
[21:22] <daftykins> especially considering one email'd to say she wanted her homepage changed...
[22:07] <diddledan> looks like some fun times in ubuntu land coming up if you're on wily - they're changing gcc major-versions from 4 to 5, including an ABI change! expect breakage I guess
[22:12] <zmoylan-pi> arch level breakage or normal level breakage? :-)
[22:16] <brobostigon> or debian sid/experimental breakage.
[22:20] <ali1234> it shouldn't be *that* bad
[22:22] <ali1234> you should be fine unless you have local C++ stuff you built yourself with the old C++11 ABI
[22:31] <Azelphur> Anyone know of any good, cheap projectors to use to project onto my bedroom ceiling? 1080p would be nice, using it for gaming, tv shows and movies.
[22:32] <zmoylan-pi> new argos catalog out... :-)
[22:34] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Small pleasures
[22:34] <penguin42> ali1234: I thought there was something cunning to keep the C++ abi compatible
[22:34] <ali1234> apparently not
[22:35] <penguin42> ali1234: Isn't that what this is supposed to solve: https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/libstdc++/manual/using_dual_abi.html ?
[22:40] <brobostigon> i hate this, watching a prog about physics on bbc4, and then poking holes allover the place where they are plain wrong.
[22:43] <penguin42> which one and who is presenting?
[22:44] <diddledan> is it D-REAM COXY?
[22:44] <diddledan> :-p
[22:44] <diddledan> things can only get better, yannow
[22:45] <brobostigon> penguin42: horizon, cosmoology.
[22:45] <brobostigon> cosmology*
[22:45] <diddledan> cosmopology!
[22:45] <diddledan> :-p
[22:45] <brobostigon> lol.
[22:46] <penguin42> brobostigon: Hmm and what did they screw up?
[22:47] <ali1234> horizon is really bad and has been for like 10 years
[22:47] <brobostigon> i was dumbass, i studied albert einstein when i was a child, i blame my aspergers.
[22:47] <brobostigon> penguin42: where do i start, the interpretation of special reletivity, for example.
[22:48]  * penguin42 doesn't see anything wrong with that :-)
[22:48] <penguin42> relativity always breaks my heads
[22:48] <brobostigon> it is really very simply.
[22:48] <brobostigon> it is really very simple.
[22:49] <penguin42> is that just the one where velocities don't add linearly?
[22:50] <brobostigon> interpretation of speed is reletive, so therefore it is definatly not linear.
[22:52] <diddledan> I'm rather massive. does that mean time is going slower in my head than in the head of a smaller person? :-p
[22:52] <zmoylan-pi> no it just means the universe revolves around you
[22:53] <diddledan> all of it?
[22:53] <zmoylan-pi> those bits not nailed down
[22:53] <brobostigon> no, you being on something massive, you percieve space-time as being normal.
[22:53] <diddledan> lol
[22:53] <diddledan> yeah, but, is my perceived timeline the same length as the perceived timeline of fred next-door
[22:54]  * zmoylan-pi attempts gravitational slingshot on moped around diddledan to make it alive through red cow roundabout...
[22:54] <diddledan> lol
[22:55] <brobostigon> diddledan: nope, because someone outside of the syetm, ie as you put it, fred nextdoor will percieve space-time within you are inside differently compared to you.
[22:57] <diddledan> now. gravity slows down time. as does velocity. so if you're supermassive and going really fast, surely there must be a point where time starts going backasswards </troll> :-p
[22:57]  * brobostigon ahds diddledan a book on general reletivity, that will explain it.
[22:58] <ali1234> the crux is that what you see is what actually happens
[22:58] <brobostigon> its a mathematical and logical flaw, space-time cannot flow backwards, only forwards inside the theories of reletivity.
[22:59] <diddledan> then the theory needs adjusting :-p
[22:59] <ali1234> people say things like "when you see a supernova it actually happened millions of years ago"
[22:59] <diddledan> because I've seen clocks that go the wrong way
[22:59] <ali1234> this is an incorrect interpretation, it happened when you see it
[22:59] <brobostigon> diddledan: ie, if we had infinate gravity and speed, time would stop,
[22:59] <diddledan> ali1234: that's a good point.
[23:00] <ali1234> the thing is that "now" is relative to the observer
[23:00] <zmoylan-pi> i first heard of backward clocks in callahans bar series of stories by spider robinson.  got one years later.  quite easy to get used to it
[23:00] <brobostigon> ali1234: incorrect, keep in mind, thw time light takes to travel and the distences,
[23:00] <ali1234> brobostigon: no, that is exactly the incorrect interpretation
[23:01] <diddledan> brobostigon: but the light is travelling at light-speed, so time is effectively not moving
[23:01] <ali1234> the idea that there is a universal "now" and we only see it played back after some time is not logically consistent
[23:01] <ali1234> that is it doesn't work with the mathematics
[23:01] <diddledan> it's been proven that "time" isn't constant
[23:02] <brobostigon> ali1234: i disagree, lets say, the light from an object, if one light year away, you see that object as it was a year ago,
[23:02] <brobostigon> ali1234: i agree, there isnt a universal now, hence why the theories of reletivty describe space-time being able to be bent and changed.
[23:03] <brobostigon> diddledan: correct.
[23:04] <ali1234> brobostigon: that interpretation fails to account for time dilation
[23:05] <diddledan> I love that they took two cesium timepieces and flew one around a bit while the other one stayed where it was. and that when put back together again they were showing different atomic-times
[23:05] <ali1234> consider the twin paradox
[23:05] <brobostigon> ali1234: not at all, i gave two seperate examples, one simplified and one where time dilation definatly applies.
[23:06] <penguin42> diddledan: Welcome to the GPS system
[23:06] <brobostigon> thats basic time dilation , diddledan
[23:06] <diddledan> penguin42: indeed
[23:06] <ali1234> you you were to fly away from earth at near light speed for 1 year, and then look at the earth, you'd see it as it was just under a year ago
[23:06] <ali1234> however this is most definitely not what happens
[23:08] <ali1234> in fact what you see is the earth where more than 1 year has passed
[23:09]  * brobostigon is bored now, for information he already knows, and goes to bed.
[23:10]  * penguin42 tries to get his head around what ali1234 has just said
[23:10] <penguin42> ali1234: So when you say 'you were to fly away from earth at neat light speed' is that 'near light speed'' as measured in your reference frame?
[23:13] <diddledan> I really like the concept of the al qubiere propulsion system - in your reference frame you're moving at sub-light velocity but because space is distorting when you turn the drive off you're suddenly much further along your course than it would have seemed
[23:23] <ali1234> penguin42: wikipedia has a good explanation of what is actually seen by each twin
[23:28] <Azelphur> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technika-40-270-Black-40-Widescreen-LCD-TV-Full-HD-1080p-With-Freeview-/351430047530?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51d2dcf72a thinking of buying this for use with xbox/laptop, thoughts? :)
[23:29] <penguin42>  'technika'
[23:30] <Azelphur> penguin42: *shrug* I have a "Furrion" in the front room that's 55" and is nice too
[23:30] <Azelphur> don't care about smart, don't care about anything really besides having a nice big panel to plug a computer into.
[23:30] <penguin42> Azelphur: and if it'brand new how come it has a tesco outlet warranty
[23:30] <Azelphur> penguin42: I noticed that too, but honestly I've been in the market for used anyway, £170 is the best price I've seen for a 40" 1080p
[23:31] <penguin42> yeh
[23:34] <penguin42> really should replace his CRT
[23:35] <popey> the reviews don't look good
[23:35] <Azelphur> really? I googled reviews and got 8.9 out of 10, what are you seeing?
[23:36] <popey> loads of clueless people giving it 5 stars :)
[23:36] <popey> and a bunch saying its unreliable
[23:36] <popey> http://www.tesco.com/direct/technika-40-270-40-widescreen-full-hd-1080p-lcd-tv-with-freeview/210-1986.prd
[23:36] <Azelphur> Interesting
[23:37] <Azelphur> I suppose unreliability I can live with, by the time the 12 month warranty comes I'll be chucking it anyway most likely
[23:37] <penguin42> is that freeview not freeview-hd ?
[23:38]  * penguin42 thinks he'd like to know where the tip is near Azelphur
[23:38] <Azelphur> not using freeview so doesn't bother me
[23:38] <Azelphur> penguin42: haha it'll probably go somewhere useful, but plan to get a raise at work and have a lot more disposable income sometime soon, so can buy nicer things, this is a stopgap :)
[23:43] <Azelphur> I can't find mention anywhere of this tvs latency lol
[23:44] <penguin42> it's a cheapo tesco tv - you'll be lucky the picture comes out sometime after you fed it in
[23:45] <Azelphur> lol