penguin42vintage videos00:01
diddledano_O citizens' advice are moaning about line rental charges for broadband service - they say it's a hidden cost not mentioned in advertising.00:09
diddledansurely it's accepted that if you have a phone line then you pay for it00:10
ali1234it is a hidden cost tho00:10
ali1234i don't want to make or receive phone calls00:10
diddledannot really. I can get sky broadband without paying them for line rental00:10
diddledanif I get my phone line from someone else then I pay them not sky00:11
diddledanso sky's advertising would be correct in it's costs00:11
ali1234for example zen internet00:11
ali1234£27* monthly charge for Unlimited Fibre 1 + £16.99* monthly charge for line rental00:12
ali1234OR £32.40* monthly charge, when Unlimited Fibre 1 is ordered without line rental (and then you also pay BT 16.99 line rental)00:12
ali1234guess what price they advertise00:12
diddledanwell surely the hidden cost there is not the line rental but having it without paying the line rental to them00:13
penguin42diddledan: I'm on virgin cable; I have a flat monthly fee for brroadband, I don't have a separate line rental00:13
diddledanpenguin42: I think you're highlighting the wrong person :-p00:13
diddledanpenguin42: I was moaning that CAB were complaining about something which I don't think is accurate00:14
penguin42diddledan: I think it's a valid moan00:14
penguin42diddledan: EE have big signs up in their shop for 'Free broadband for EE customers' - and then you ask and they say 'ah yes, you need to pay the line rental'00:15
diddledanbut you'd have to pay line rental to have broadband with any bt-bourne supplier00:15
diddledanhaving a fixed-line phone costs money00:16
penguin42diddledan: Why does it?00:16
diddledanbecause someone has to supply the service00:16
penguin42diddledan: and so how do you split the broadband cost and the line rental cost - to the consumer they don't need to worry about who is supplying each part; they worry about the bill at the end of the day00:16
diddledanyour virgin is case in point - you don't pay line rental for a phone because your broadband isn't phone-cable-bourne00:16
penguin42diddledan: But there's a cable involved and infrastructure, I don't pay a separate cable fee and then broadband cost00:17
diddledanno, but you also don't have a phone service00:17
ali1234you used to when it was NTL00:17
penguin42diddledan: I could get a phone service from them if I wanted to00:17
diddledanno phone service, no charge. have a phone service have a charge. simple.00:18
diddledanthe problem isn't about "hidden costs" as the CAB claim - it's that you are required to have a voice service to be connected into the broadband network00:18
penguin42diddledan: But Sky/etc's total costs have many components - why do they call out just the line entry?00:18
penguin42diddledan: No you are NOT required to have a voice service to have broadband00:19
diddledanpenguin42: only if you get virgin00:19
penguin42diddledan: No00:19
penguin42diddledan: There are ISPs who on BT equipment make the voice separate; BT charge them separately00:20
diddledanmy point is for a bt line you need to pay a line-rental. moaning that is pointless00:20
diddledanit doesn't matter who makes the final bill out, someone has to pay bt for the line. the fact you have broadband on-top of that line isn't BT's fault.00:21
penguin42diddledan: but it's just one wholesale component - like the cost to run a call centre or the bandwidth they buy off anyone else, and the line rental charges aren't all the same00:21
diddledanI fail to see what you're trying to argue00:23
penguin42diddledan: I'm saying that the price they advertise should be the bottom line figure that a customer has to pay to get it00:23
penguin42diddledan: including everything00:23
diddledanI'm moaning that the CAB are moaning about line rental being a "hidden cost" when it isn't00:23
penguin42I'm saying that they it is being hidden00:23
diddledanbut it isn't00:23
penguin42it is00:23
diddledanyou don't have to pay sky for your line rental to have sky broadband00:24
penguin42you see these big banners with 'only £... a month' and then you have to compare everything else00:24
diddledansky list the charges they will make00:24
diddledansky don't care what your line rental costs when you're paying BT directly00:24
penguin42diddledan: but the amount each company charges for BT line rental isn't the same00:24
penguin42diddledan: Oh hang on, not all these companies expect you to pay BT for a BT line, some of them it all goes through the ISP00:25
diddledanso you shop around for the cheapest BT line. then you shop around for a broadband to go on-top00:25
penguin42diddledan: No, it doesn't work like that00:25
penguin42diddledan: You can't mix line rentals from different companies with broadband from different companies00:26
diddledanyes you can00:26
penguin42diddledan: If you could then I'd agree00:26
diddledansimplest example is BT phone line paid to BT and AAISP as your broadband00:26
penguin42diddledan: OK, but what about AA supplied BT copper pair and AA as your ISP00:27
penguin42diddledan: No voice00:27
penguin42diddledan: I'm pretty sure you can't order that off AA and then get sky to do the broadband00:28
diddledaneww @ huge moth00:29
* penguin42 hands diddledan a huge slipper00:29
diddledanlol @ how that can be read: 'Satya Nadella, chief executive, said: "Our approach to investing in areas where we have differentiation and opportunity is paying off with Surface, Xbox, Bing, Office 365, Azure and Dynamics CRM Online all growing by at least double-digits."' <-- double digits - they've got 10 new customers00:31
penguin42diddledan: http://aaisp.net/broadband-prices.html says 'You can pay us for a phone line, per phone line, or pay someone else, e.g. BT, if you prefer. You then pay us per line for broadband on that line'  so the price of getting 'the line' varies, and since it varies it seems worth including00:33
diddledanI've had my moan. now I'm taking my ball and going home :-p00:36
diddledanyou can all try to play without it00:36
* awilkins hates all that stupid bundling00:41
awilkins"Can I get rid of the TV package to save money?"  / " You can get rid of it but the service is still the same price"   / "Isn't that illegal under EU law?"  / "Yes it is but we don't care so yah boo sucks to you."00:42
diddledanawilkins: yeah virgin have a weird pricing scheme00:42
diddledanhe done died?00:43
* penguin42 just has the virgin broadband00:43
* diddledan hides mr stabby00:43
diddledanI moved from sky phone + sky broadband + sky tv + sky movies to just virgin broadbent00:43
diddledan152Mbit ftw00:44
* penguin42 is on the bottom notch00:44
diddledanyeah - that's still faster than standard fttc on a bt line00:44
diddledan40 is the base model there00:45
penguin42I think they advertise 70Mbps fttc on some - but I can't get fttc here00:45
diddledanand for some reason they top out at 76 when the carrier is actually capable of 8000:45
penguin42perhaps you have slightly wider bits down there00:46
penguin42diddledan: Down at the 50Mbps rate the cost to get the TV is quite a bit00:48
diddledanthe twitter I posted just now - internet-connected infotainment system in jeeps can be used to remotely control the vehicle, but to fix it an owner needs to download a patch and manually apply it - why can't it download the patch itself?!00:52
diddledanit's connected to the net so it is capable00:53
diddledanI'm still waiting for the day when you're driving along the motorway at 70 and the car decides to reboot for a patchfix00:53
penguin42good question, perhaps it's not supposed to be able to get to any of the firmware via the net00:53
diddledanwell the hackers can steer the car from the internet. I hardly see it as a big leap to suggest that the thing can use that connection to update itself00:55
diddledanthe big question is why the infotainment system is even connected to the steering wheel and brakes00:55
diddledan(they can disable the brakes)00:56
penguin42because they share a CANbus00:56
penguin42diddledan: It's pretty common, people have been warning about it for many years00:57
diddledanI don't know what one of those is00:57
* diddledan googles00:57
penguin42diddledan: Digital bus for cars and other control systems00:57
penguin42diddledan: so they dont have to run a separate wire for every item00:57
diddledandon't you love this sentence?: "The software security update, provided at no cost to customers"00:58
diddledanI bleeding well would hope it is free!00:58
penguin42yeh look how greatful you should be00:58
diddledan"do you care about your family? are you worried that hackers can kill you? dial 1-800-DONT-HACK and our helpful advisors will guide you through the payment and installation of the required security patch"00:59
diddledan"note, failure to apply the patch may result in your death."01:00
diddledan"the company can not be held liable for defects in the patch"01:00
diddledan"or your death"01:00
penguin42you see the demo I'd do with it would be to get 50 of them doing a choreographed routine in a huge parking lot somewhere01:00
penguin42or maybe 50001:00
diddledanhijack randoms off the road to do so01:01
penguin42well, personally I wouldn't01:01
diddledan(as they're innocently driving past)01:01
diddledan"here comes one now. penetrate it's firewall and tag the driver so we can follow his porn"01:03
diddledanor some other hollywoodism01:03
diddledanspeaky of which, I've got some csi:cyb0r to watch01:04
diddledanoh, and apparently hacking an adultary website is deemed cyber-terrorism now01:05
diddledan(well the adultery site seems to think so)01:05
shaunothat's a weird one.  they're easy to laugh at due to the nature of the site, but if you ignore that part, it's starts sounding pretty evil01:12
diddledanseems they had a sevice that you could pay them $20 to have your data deleted, but they didn't do the deletion?01:14
diddledanI wonder if they comply with EU data-protection law that requires businesses to delete data when requested (I don't know whether the EU requires this service to be free, but I would expect so)?01:15
diddledanI seen some funny comments about the possibility of it being an inside job - to the effect that they are complaining about someone violating their trust when that's their entire premise01:17
=== zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
mapppshi all05:52
MooDoomorning all07:16
brobostigonmorning boys and girls.07:48
MooDoomorning mate07:48
brobostigonmorning MooDoo07:49
* brobostigon walks around the room showing everyone proudly his new pebble.07:50
davmor2Morning all08:10
brobostigonmorning davmor208:12
davmor2diddledan, MooDoo: An oldie today for Some reason I couldn't shake the YMCA out of my head this morning :)08:13
=== diplo_ is now known as diplo
foobarryandroid 5 stock doesn't have a call blocker :(08:38
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Hammock Day! 😃08:48
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)08:58
bigcalmA hammock would be nice08:58
davmor2JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o28LTvbyiT409:03
davmor2A song for all occasions, that's me :)09:04
MooDoohowdy bigcalm davmor209:10
davmor2MooDoo: Morning me owld mucka did you sort out your ssh issue?09:11
zmoylan-piwe need a new hammock with facilities for keyboard and charge point :-)09:18
popeybigcalm: pebble time?09:20
popeyer, brobostigon pebble time?09:20
MooDoodavmor2: nah, still can't login, not to worry it's a vm i can rebuild it only had a MC server on it, had a gluster problem last night deleted everything glad I just backed up my qcow2 files :D09:21
brobostigonpopey: pebble steel, and my gf is getting my original red pebble, we decided when she offered to get me a new one, pebble time was too expensive.09:22
popeysteel has longer battery life than time, righT?09:23
brobostigontime has a digger battery than the older og/steel pebble.09:24
popeyoh, you didnt get a pebble time steel?09:24
popeyyou got an old pebble?09:24
brobostigontime steel is even more expensive, than the plain time,09:25
popeysure, it's newer :)09:25
popeyand colour \o/09:25
brobostigonmy theory is, i think she wanted me to have a smarter watch, hence og steel, rather than the 80's throwback as it has been described the plain og pebble.09:26
bashrcapparently, pebbles don't contain heart monitors09:29
brobostigonthat they dont.09:29
bashrcI was reading a while ago that if you combine heart rate and motion it might be possible to detect sleep phases09:30
brobostigona haeart monitor is a gimmick, all examples i have seen, dont work properly, if you want something with that function, get something more specialised for the job/09:30
shaunomine seems to work fine09:31
brobostigonwhich smartwatch and OS?09:31
shaunoapple on os2beta409:32
bashrcit would be nice to do things like having clothing or jewelry change colour or pattern depending on your temperature and heart rate09:32
brobostigonshauno: i see.09:32
bashrcand I suppose the logical site to measure heart rate is on a watch (pulse)09:33
popeythe pebble time has a port that additional bits can be added to, such as this09:33
brobostigoni have been thinking about ideas, to do with that port on pebble time.09:35
* zmoylan-pi pictures some sort of sensor attached to gloves to count the punches required in hand to hand combat on public transport... :-p10:04
zmoylan-pithough you could do that with just the acceleramoter if it has one...10:06
brobostigonwhich most do, yes.10:07
zmoylan-piyou'd only need it for the arm not wearing a watch... :-)10:07
brobostigona wii controller in the right hand.?10:08
zmoylan-pithose are expspensive to replace and the straps may not prevent it leaving you hand if all those pics of broken tvs are to be believed :-)10:09
brobostigongood points.10:10
zmoylan-picheaper to use a  prepay android phone in your fist linked to the pebble...10:11
zmoylan-pijust make a bubble wrap case :-)10:11
brobostigonbounce, bounce.10:12
shaunohttp://www.knucklecase.com  ?10:13
zmoylan-piif only the pebble could talk to nokia dumbphone.  that might qualify as a weapon though if used in fist during fight... :-)10:13
brobostigonzmoylan-pi: the basics of communicating with the pebble is fairly straightforward, i am sure if someone wanted, sw could be designed for it.10:14
zmoylan-piproblem is that the nokia dumbphones don't multitask so you'd need a very low level program written for it.  could be done but so expensive it never will10:14
intrbizwell, that was a PITA, en_gb not existing by default "to save disk space"10:16
davmor2intrbiz: on what?10:19
intrbizubuntu 14.04 LTS, having to run 'locale-gen' was somewhat unexpected10:20
intrbizcoupled with the error message not being logged10:20
davmor2intrbiz: anything in /var/crash/10:22
intrbiznah, wasn't a crash, merely the init scripts not logging the output of pg_ctl, so had to manually start to find the problem10:23
davmor2intrbiz: it should log it somewhere, I've no idea where like but it should :)10:24
shaunough.  someone keeps jumping on my name the moment I disconnect.  utter pain.10:36
ujjainPassword is expired, but I can log in via private key, but another user can't?10:37
ujjainThe users don't even have a password set and are said their password is expired, errr.10:44
shaunothey're often the same thing10:45
shauno"no password" can be either a blank password, or a locked account.  locked usually just means putting the expiry date in the past10:45
davmor2shauno: or locking the account10:46
shaunosometimes I forget why I don't like helping with flossy stuff.10:49
zmoylan-pibut if you have a problem with an 8" floppy drive shauno is your mammal :-p11:34
ujjainalcohol is probably bad when you are recovering from a cold, right? there's this nice thing, but I have to be in shape for a festival Friday too11:57
ujjainshauno, it's not locked, it's expired,11:57
ujjaini'll try to figure it out later, I thought if yo uuse private keys, shouldn't be affected,11:57
davmor2popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQC7dweRTKU12:54
mapppsapartment viewing13:01
mappps2 apartments ..hopefully be able to get it done quickly13:01
ujjainchage says Password expires: Jul 07, 2015 ... but there is no password even in /etc/shadow... aaargh13:13
ujjainthen why "You are required to change your password immediately (password aged)"...13:13
dwatkinsujjain: booze will probably impede the immune system13:23
ujjainyeah, I guess bettter to recover, although some days get a bit boring13:24
daftykinsif you find days are boring without drinking, you may have bigger problems than a cold ;)13:27
shaunowell, we were all thinking it, so someone had to13:34
ujjainuh, we have a team outing today13:39
ujjainit's always a lot of fun13:39
ujjainstaying home many days in a row is less fun, for a few days is fine though13:39
dwatkinsour team outing is in the middle of my holiday, so I can't go :'(13:42
zmoylan-pitake a holiday during your holiday to meet up with them on their outing... :-)13:51
dwatkinsthere's no way I'm coming back from France just to go to see a play and have a couple drinks on my boss ;)13:51
penguin42being around 200 miles from my nearest other team member, I don't have that problem13:54
daftykinsaww you should meet up :)13:59
daftykinsmy cat is enjoying the sun greatly today14:00
daftykinsyip :)14:01
zmoylan-picats are solar powered14:01
daftykinsunless it's the competitive kind of doping cats, high on catnip14:04
penguin42daftykins: You could paint a few black splodges on that wall so it could camoflage itself14:07
zmoylan-picats don't need assistance to stealth.  i've seen a tortishell hide in plain sight lying in the sun14:09
penguin42how bizarre; Amazon are listing a b&w laser for £16.61 - and £76.69 delivery (from Italy)14:38
penguin42I guess that might not be an insane cost from Italy for delivery14:39
zmoylan-pithey have to sneak it by roman galley past the carthaginians hence the cost :-)14:40
penguin42nod, the last 3 were eaten by lions14:41
zmoylan-piwell lasers... cats...14:42
penguin42hmm a few of this thing showing up - I wonder if this is an effect of a low euro, so we're seeing a lot of European products show up in price sorts14:42
davmor2zmoylan-pi, penguin42: everyone in europe has to send things through Greece to help them pay off their debt14:58
davmor2would of €5 otherwise14:58
davmor2s/of/of benn14:58
davmor2been even14:59
shaunoI'd be tempted to have a holiday there, but they cranked the VAT up15:46
daftykinswould have been (:15:47
shaunoI've been looking at boat rentals, and spain is cheaper atm.  quite counter-intuitive15:48
TwistedLucidityshauno: Didn't think the VAT increase had had a *huge* effect. Seemed to just be the odd euro here or there.16:08
TwistedLucidityAlthough I guess boat rental is a high-ticket item, so could hurt.16:08
shaunoa 10% increase adds up quickly16:10
shauno(on the other hand, I find it unfathomable that it was previously 13%.  no wonder the coffers are dry)16:11
penguin42shauno: Well at one point not that long ago our VAT was down at that level; but I don't have much sympathy if they're that broke that they don't put it up16:12
TwistedLucidity13% is OK if you have enough money moving and people aren't siphoning it off into secret accounts....16:14
penguin42there was an interesting article I saw saying that the £60/day limit didn't extend to credit and debit cards, so there was a lot of buying of high value goods16:15
daftykinsi enjoy being VAT free (:16:15
daftykinsjust a shame Google, Microsoft and Apple typically don't like to acknowledge we exist16:16
TwistedLucidityYou can bet that, despite the rhetoric, large amounts of the money passed through the City of London unchecked.16:16
TwistedLuciditydaftykins: Where's "we"?16:16
* penguin42 hopes some of it stopped here so it can pay our taxes...16:16
daftykinsChannel Islands16:16
daftykinsor rather the Bailiwick of Guernsey specifically, as i think Jersey has a 5% GST16:16
TwistedLuciditySo..."daftykins Trust LLC" :-D16:17
shaunodoes that mean that if I buy something in guernsey, I'd be due import duty here?16:18
TwistedLucidityshauno: Not 100% sure, wiki implies not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAT-free_imports_from_the_Channel_Islands#Channel_Islands16:23
* penguin42 can't remember the trick they used to stop all the CD/DVDs being delivered from there16:24
TwistedLucidityshauno: When I was importing bike parts from the USA, the HMRC phoneline was actually really helpful.16:25
TwistedLuciditypenguin42: I think it was "Oi! Just gonnae no?"16:25
penguin42TwistedLucidity/shauno: For a long time a lot of the discount CD/DVD vendors were based there16:25
TwistedLuciditypenguin42: Yeah, I think Amazon or someone was involved. Trading name of "Blackstar" ISTRC16:25
penguin42TwistedLucidity: Oh yeh, as was Play.com and a few others16:26
shaunoI think being in the republic would complicate that, since we have no relationship with the smaller islands16:27
penguin42shauno: I'm not sure, it's an odd setup, because they're members of the EU16:27
TwistedLucidityIf they are considered part of the EU for duty purposes; I doubt there's much the South can do.16:27
TwistedLucidityAnd sorry, I assumed you were UK.16:27
shaunono worries, it's a fair enough assumption in here :)16:28
popeyAsus Nvidia GeForce GTX 750 Ti - worth getting over my current 460?16:28
davmor2MooDoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQC7dweRTKU :)16:31
daftykinspopey: nah16:42
daftykinsi don't think it's enough of a step up16:43
daftykinsmaybe if it were free :>16:43
awilkinsI'm contemplating a 980Ti16:58
awilkinsOf course, that's an absurd death machine of a GPU16:58
bigcalmFor a moment I thought you were talking about a calculator16:59
awilkinsIf excellent graphics kills people, it's probably the Hitler of GPUs.16:59
awilkinsWith the Titan X being the current Ghengis Khan or whoever killed more people as a fraction of the human population than Hitler16:59
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
brobostigonhow much do roses cost these days?18:44
penguin42the packs have got smaller over the years, but it's not great chocolate....18:44
brobostigonits my and my gf's two year anniversary this weekend, sortof.18:46
davmor2brobostigon: more than a pound and less than a million18:46
brobostigoneeeek, :(18:46
davmor2brobostigon: I guess it depends on where you live, how many and type18:47
penguin42and whether you nick them from the neighbours garden18:47
brobostigonnorth oxfordshire.18:47
davmor2I wolves I can get Velvet Crush at £3 a rose so a dozen would be £3618:48
davmor2In wolves even18:48
brobostigonbetter queston being, are flowers still an appropriate thing.?18:50
directhexIME girls want RAM.18:51
brobostigonRAM ?18:52
shaunoI never saw the value in finding some living organisms, beheading them and presenting their corpses to rot before you as a gift.  but disclaimer, I don't understand women at all.18:53
brobostigoni think i have that advantage, of better memory, my aspieness remebers almost every moment of most days, :(18:54
davmor2brobostigon: Flowers/Chocolate/Perfume/Jewellery/Evening Out always with a card, I think are all valid18:54
brobostigonare you aspie shauno ?18:54
brobostigondavmor2: ok cool, ty.18:54
shaunonot that I know of18:54
brobostigonshauno: most NT people wouldnt have analysed it how you just did in my experience.18:56
davmor2brobostigon: Note the Always with a CARD! bit otherwise you get the 3rd degree,  with a card it's a special occasion so allowed :)18:57
brobostigondavmor2: i see, so i get her a special card, like something handmade?18:58
davmor2brobostigon: Yeah or just a standard Anniversary card, just not a numbered one :)18:59
brobostigondavmor2: of course not a numbered one, they wont exist. got you, i think i understand.19:00
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
* brobostigon is sad, he is listening to ELO.21:08
penguin42Mr Blue Skies?21:09
shaunohow could that possibly make him sad?21:09
brobostigonits something thats bad music, but is also strangly likable.21:10
brobostigonPOv, yes.21:11
penguin42bad music ?! Tsk - I like ELO21:58
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!