[00:01] <penguin42> ah
[00:01] <penguin42> vintage videos
[00:09] <diddledan> o_O citizens' advice are moaning about line rental charges for broadband service - they say it's a hidden cost not mentioned in advertising.
[00:10] <diddledan> surely it's accepted that if you have a phone line then you pay for it
[00:10] <ali1234> it is a hidden cost tho
[00:10] <ali1234> i don't want to make or receive phone calls
[00:10] <diddledan> not really. I can get sky broadband without paying them for line rental
[00:11] <diddledan> if I get my phone line from someone else then I pay them not sky
[00:11] <diddledan> so sky's advertising would be correct in it's costs
[00:11] <ali1234> for example zen internet
[00:12] <ali1234> £27* monthly charge for Unlimited Fibre 1 + £16.99* monthly charge for line rental
[00:12] <ali1234> OR £32.40* monthly charge, when Unlimited Fibre 1 is ordered without line rental (and then you also pay BT 16.99 line rental)
[00:12] <ali1234> guess what price they advertise
[00:13] <diddledan> well surely the hidden cost there is not the line rental but having it without paying the line rental to them
[00:13] <penguin42> diddledan: I'm on virgin cable; I have a flat monthly fee for brroadband, I don't have a separate line rental
[00:13] <diddledan> penguin42: I think you're highlighting the wrong person :-p
[00:14] <diddledan> penguin42: I was moaning that CAB were complaining about something which I don't think is accurate
[00:14] <penguin42> diddledan: I think it's a valid moan
[00:15] <penguin42> diddledan: EE have big signs up in their shop for 'Free broadband for EE customers' - and then you ask and they say 'ah yes, you need to pay the line rental'
[00:15] <diddledan> but you'd have to pay line rental to have broadband with any bt-bourne supplier
[00:16] <diddledan> having a fixed-line phone costs money
[00:16] <penguin42> diddledan: Why does it?
[00:16] <diddledan> because someone has to supply the service
[00:16] <penguin42> diddledan: and so how do you split the broadband cost and the line rental cost - to the consumer they don't need to worry about who is supplying each part; they worry about the bill at the end of the day
[00:16] <diddledan> your virgin is case in point - you don't pay line rental for a phone because your broadband isn't phone-cable-bourne
[00:17] <penguin42> diddledan: But there's a cable involved and infrastructure, I don't pay a separate cable fee and then broadband cost
[00:17] <diddledan> no, but you also don't have a phone service
[00:17] <ali1234> you used to when it was NTL
[00:17] <penguin42> diddledan: I could get a phone service from them if I wanted to
[00:18] <diddledan> no phone service, no charge. have a phone service have a charge. simple.
[00:18] <diddledan> the problem isn't about "hidden costs" as the CAB claim - it's that you are required to have a voice service to be connected into the broadband network
[00:18] <penguin42> diddledan: But Sky/etc's total costs have many components - why do they call out just the line entry?
[00:19] <penguin42> diddledan: No you are NOT required to have a voice service to have broadband
[00:19] <diddledan> penguin42: only if you get virgin
[00:19] <penguin42> diddledan: No
[00:20] <penguin42> diddledan: There are ISPs who on BT equipment make the voice separate; BT charge them separately
[00:20] <diddledan> my point is for a bt line you need to pay a line-rental. moaning that is pointless
[00:21] <diddledan> it doesn't matter who makes the final bill out, someone has to pay bt for the line. the fact you have broadband on-top of that line isn't BT's fault.
[00:21] <penguin42> diddledan: but it's just one wholesale component - like the cost to run a call centre or the bandwidth they buy off anyone else, and the line rental charges aren't all the same
[00:23] <diddledan> I fail to see what you're trying to argue
[00:23] <penguin42> diddledan: I'm saying that the price they advertise should be the bottom line figure that a customer has to pay to get it
[00:23] <penguin42> diddledan: including everything
[00:23] <diddledan> I'm moaning that the CAB are moaning about line rental being a "hidden cost" when it isn't
[00:23] <penguin42> I'm saying that they it is being hidden
[00:23] <diddledan> but it isn't
[00:23] <penguin42> it is
[00:24] <diddledan> you don't have to pay sky for your line rental to have sky broadband
[00:24] <penguin42> you see these big banners with 'only £... a month' and then you have to compare everything else
[00:24] <diddledan> sky list the charges they will make
[00:24] <diddledan> sky don't care what your line rental costs when you're paying BT directly
[00:24] <penguin42> diddledan: but the amount each company charges for BT line rental isn't the same
[00:25] <penguin42> diddledan: Oh hang on, not all these companies expect you to pay BT for a BT line, some of them it all goes through the ISP
[00:25] <diddledan> so you shop around for the cheapest BT line. then you shop around for a broadband to go on-top
[00:25] <penguin42> diddledan: No, it doesn't work like that
[00:26] <penguin42> diddledan: You can't mix line rentals from different companies with broadband from different companies
[00:26] <diddledan> yes you can
[00:26] <penguin42> diddledan: If you could then I'd agree
[00:26] <diddledan> simplest example is BT phone line paid to BT and AAISP as your broadband
[00:27] <penguin42> diddledan: OK, but what about AA supplied BT copper pair and AA as your ISP
[00:27] <penguin42> diddledan: No voice
[00:28] <penguin42> diddledan: I'm pretty sure you can't order that off AA and then get sky to do the broadband
[00:29] <diddledan> eww @ huge moth
[00:29]  * penguin42 hands diddledan a huge slipper
[00:31] <diddledan> lol @ how that can be read: 'Satya Nadella, chief executive, said: "Our approach to investing in areas where we have differentiation and opportunity is paying off with Surface, Xbox, Bing, Office 365, Azure and Dynamics CRM Online all growing by at least double-digits."' <-- double digits - they've got 10 new customers
[00:33] <penguin42> diddledan: http://aaisp.net/broadband-prices.html says 'You can pay us for a phone line, per phone line, or pay someone else, e.g. BT, if you prefer. You then pay us per line for broadband on that line'  so the price of getting 'the line' varies, and since it varies it seems worth including
[00:36] <diddledan> I've had my moan. now I'm taking my ball and going home :-p
[00:36] <penguin42> haha
[00:36] <diddledan> you can all try to play without it
[00:41] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/cardealersau/status/623591888961056768
[00:41]  * awilkins hates all that stupid bundling
[00:42] <awilkins> "Can I get rid of the TV package to save money?"  / " You can get rid of it but the service is still the same price"   / "Isn't that illegal under EU law?"  / "Yes it is but we don't care so yah boo sucks to you."
[00:42] <diddledan> awilkins: yeah virgin have a weird pricing scheme
[00:43] <diddledan> hmm
[00:43] <diddledan> he done died?
[00:43] <penguin42> nod
[00:43]  * penguin42 just has the virgin broadband
[00:43]  * diddledan hides mr stabby
[00:43] <diddledan> ditto
[00:43] <diddledan> I moved from sky phone + sky broadband + sky tv + sky movies to just virgin broadbent
[00:44] <diddledan> 152Mbit ftw
[00:44]  * penguin42 is on the bottom notch
[00:44] <penguin42> 50Mbitish
[00:44] <diddledan> yeah - that's still faster than standard fttc on a bt line
[00:45] <diddledan> 40 is the base model there
[00:45] <penguin42> I think they advertise 70Mbps fttc on some - but I can't get fttc here
[00:45] <diddledan> and for some reason they top out at 76 when the carrier is actually capable of 80
[00:46] <penguin42> perhaps you have slightly wider bits down there
[00:46] <diddledan> lol
[00:48] <penguin42> diddledan: Down at the 50Mbps rate the cost to get the TV is quite a bit
[00:52] <diddledan> the twitter I posted just now - internet-connected infotainment system in jeeps can be used to remotely control the vehicle, but to fix it an owner needs to download a patch and manually apply it - why can't it download the patch itself?!
[00:53] <diddledan> it's connected to the net so it is capable
[00:53] <diddledan> I'm still waiting for the day when you're driving along the motorway at 70 and the car decides to reboot for a patchfix
[00:53] <penguin42> good question, perhaps it's not supposed to be able to get to any of the firmware via the net
[00:55] <diddledan> well the hackers can steer the car from the internet. I hardly see it as a big leap to suggest that the thing can use that connection to update itself
[00:55] <diddledan> the big question is why the infotainment system is even connected to the steering wheel and brakes
[00:56] <diddledan> (they can disable the brakes)
[00:56] <penguin42> because they share a CANbus
[00:57] <penguin42> diddledan: It's pretty common, people have been warning about it for many years
[00:57] <diddledan> I don't know what one of those is
[00:57]  * diddledan googles
[00:57] <penguin42> diddledan: Digital bus for cars and other control systems
[00:57] <penguin42> diddledan: so they dont have to run a separate wire for every item
[00:58] <diddledan> don't you love this sentence?: "The software security update, provided at no cost to customers"
[00:58] <diddledan> I bleeding well would hope it is free!
[00:58] <penguin42> yeh look how greatful you should be
[00:59] <diddledan> "do you care about your family? are you worried that hackers can kill you? dial 1-800-DONT-HACK and our helpful advisors will guide you through the payment and installation of the required security patch"
[01:00] <diddledan> "note, failure to apply the patch may result in your death."
[01:00] <diddledan> "the company can not be held liable for defects in the patch"
[01:00] <diddledan> "or your death"
[01:00] <penguin42> you see the demo I'd do with it would be to get 50 of them doing a choreographed routine in a huge parking lot somewhere
[01:00] <diddledan> lol
[01:00] <penguin42> or maybe 500
[01:01] <diddledan> hijack randoms off the road to do so
[01:01] <penguin42> well, personally I wouldn't
[01:01] <diddledan> (as they're innocently driving past)
[01:03] <diddledan> "here comes one now. penetrate it's firewall and tag the driver so we can follow his porn"
[01:03] <diddledan> or some other hollywoodism
[01:04] <diddledan> speaky of which, I've got some csi:cyb0r to watch
[01:05] <diddledan> oh, and apparently hacking an adultary website is deemed cyber-terrorism now
[01:05] <diddledan> (well the adultery site seems to think so)
[01:12] <shauno> that's a weird one.  they're easy to laugh at due to the nature of the site, but if you ignore that part, it's starts sounding pretty evil
[01:14] <diddledan> seems they had a sevice that you could pay them $20 to have your data deleted, but they didn't do the deletion?
[01:15] <diddledan> I wonder if they comply with EU data-protection law that requires businesses to delete data when requested (I don't know whether the EU requires this service to be free, but I would expect so)?
[01:17] <diddledan> I seen some funny comments about the possibility of it being an inside job - to the effect that they are complaining about someone violating their trust when that's their entire premise
[05:52] <mappps> hi all
[06:58] <diplo_> Morning
[06:58] <bashrc_> morning
[07:16] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:48] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:48] <MooDoo> morning mate
[07:49] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[07:50]  * brobostigon walks around the room showing everyone proudly his new pebble.
[08:10] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:12] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[08:13] <davmor2> diddledan, MooDoo: An oldie today for Some reason I couldn't shake the YMCA out of my head this morning :)
[08:38] <foobarry> android 5 stock doesn't have a call blocker :(
[08:48] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Hammock Day! 😃
[08:48] <bashrc> ZZZzzz
[08:58] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:58] <bigcalm> A hammock would be nice
[09:03] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o28LTvbyiT4
[09:04] <davmor2> A song for all occasions, that's me :)
[09:10] <MooDoo> howdy bigcalm davmor2
[09:11] <davmor2> MooDoo: Morning me owld mucka did you sort out your ssh issue?
[09:18] <zmoylan-pi> we need a new hammock with facilities for keyboard and charge point :-)
[09:20] <popey> bigcalm: pebble time?
[09:20] <popey> er, brobostigon pebble time?
[09:21] <MooDoo> davmor2: nah, still can't login, not to worry it's a vm i can rebuild it only had a MC server on it, had a gluster problem last night deleted everything glad I just backed up my qcow2 files :D
[09:22] <brobostigon> popey: pebble steel, and my gf is getting my original red pebble, we decided when she offered to get me a new one, pebble time was too expensive.
[09:23] <popey> steel has longer battery life than time, righT?
[09:24] <brobostigon> time has a digger battery than the older og/steel pebble.
[09:24] <brobostigon> bigger*
[09:24] <popey> oh, you didnt get a pebble time steel?
[09:24] <popey> you got an old pebble?
[09:25] <brobostigon> time steel is even more expensive, than the plain time,
[09:25] <popey> sure, it's newer :)
[09:25] <popey> and colour \o/
[09:26] <brobostigon> my theory is, i think she wanted me to have a smarter watch, hence og steel, rather than the 80's throwback as it has been described the plain og pebble.
[09:29] <bashrc> apparently, pebbles don't contain heart monitors
[09:29] <brobostigon> that they dont.
[09:30] <bashrc> I was reading a while ago that if you combine heart rate and motion it might be possible to detect sleep phases
[09:30] <brobostigon> a haeart monitor is a gimmick, all examples i have seen, dont work properly, if you want something with that function, get something more specialised for the job/
[09:31] <shauno> mine seems to work fine
[09:31] <brobostigon> which smartwatch and OS?
[09:32] <shauno> apple on os2beta4
[09:32] <bashrc> it would be nice to do things like having clothing or jewelry change colour or pattern depending on your temperature and heart rate
[09:32] <brobostigon> shauno: i see.
[09:33] <bashrc> and I suppose the logical site to measure heart rate is on a watch (pulse)
[09:33] <popey> the pebble time has a port that additional bits can be added to, such as this
[09:35] <brobostigon> i have been thinking about ideas, to do with that port on pebble time.
[10:04]  * zmoylan-pi pictures some sort of sensor attached to gloves to count the punches required in hand to hand combat on public transport... :-p
[10:05] <brobostigon> lolz.
[10:06] <zmoylan-pi> though you could do that with just the acceleramoter if it has one...
[10:07] <brobostigon> which most do, yes.
[10:07] <zmoylan-pi> you'd only need it for the arm not wearing a watch... :-)
[10:08] <brobostigon> a wii controller in the right hand.?
[10:09] <zmoylan-pi> those are expspensive to replace and the straps may not prevent it leaving you hand if all those pics of broken tvs are to be believed :-)
[10:10] <brobostigon> good points.
[10:11] <zmoylan-pi> cheaper to use a  prepay android phone in your fist linked to the pebble...
[10:11] <zmoylan-pi> just make a bubble wrap case :-)
[10:12] <brobostigon> bounce, bounce.
[10:12] <brobostigon> bounce,
[10:12] <brobostigon> splat.
[10:13] <shauno> http://www.knucklecase.com  ?
[10:13] <zmoylan-pi> if only the pebble could talk to nokia dumbphone.  that might qualify as a weapon though if used in fist during fight... :-)
[10:14] <brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: the basics of communicating with the pebble is fairly straightforward, i am sure if someone wanted, sw could be designed for it.
[10:14] <zmoylan-pi> problem is that the nokia dumbphones don't multitask so you'd need a very low level program written for it.  could be done but so expensive it never will
[10:16] <intrbiz> well, that was a PITA, en_gb not existing by default "to save disk space"
[10:19] <davmor2> intrbiz: on what?
[10:20] <intrbiz> ubuntu 14.04 LTS, having to run 'locale-gen' was somewhat unexpected
[10:20] <intrbiz> coupled with the error message not being logged
[10:22] <davmor2> intrbiz: anything in /var/crash/
[10:23] <intrbiz> nah, wasn't a crash, merely the init scripts not logging the output of pg_ctl, so had to manually start to find the problem
[10:24] <davmor2> intrbiz: it should log it somewhere, I've no idea where like but it should :)
[10:36] <shauno> ugh.  someone keeps jumping on my name the moment I disconnect.  utter pain.
[10:37] <ujjain> Password is expired, but I can log in via private key, but another user can't?
[10:44] <ujjain> The users don't even have a password set and are said their password is expired, errr.
[10:45] <shauno> they're often the same thing
[10:45] <shauno> "no password" can be either a blank password, or a locked account.  locked usually just means putting the expiry date in the past
[10:46] <davmor2> shauno: or locking the account
[10:49] <shauno> sometimes I forget why I don't like helping with flossy stuff.
[11:34] <zmoylan-pi> but if you have a problem with an 8" floppy drive shauno is your mammal :-p
[11:57] <ujjain> alcohol is probably bad when you are recovering from a cold, right? there's this nice thing, but I have to be in shape for a festival Friday too
[11:57] <ujjain> shauno, it's not locked, it's expired,
[11:57] <ujjain> i'll try to figure it out later, I thought if yo uuse private keys, shouldn't be affected,
[12:54] <davmor2> popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQC7dweRTKU
[13:01] <mappps> fun
[13:01] <mappps> apartment viewing
[13:01] <mappps> 2 apartments ..hopefully be able to get it done quickly
[13:13] <ujjain> chage says Password expires: Jul 07, 2015 ... but there is no password even in /etc/shadow... aaargh
[13:13] <ujjain> then why "You are required to change your password immediately (password aged)"...
[13:23] <dwatkins> ujjain: booze will probably impede the immune system
[13:24] <ujjain> yeah, I guess bettter to recover, although some days get a bit boring
[13:27] <daftykins> if you find days are boring without drinking, you may have bigger problems than a cold ;)
[13:34] <shauno> well, we were all thinking it, so someone had to
[13:39] <ujjain> uh, we have a team outing today
[13:39] <ujjain> it's always a lot of fun
[13:39] <ujjain> staying home many days in a row is less fun, for a few days is fine though
[13:42] <dwatkins> our team outing is in the middle of my holiday, so I can't go :'(
[13:43] <daftykins> oops!
[13:51] <zmoylan-pi> take a holiday during your holiday to meet up with them on their outing... :-)
[13:51] <dwatkins> there's no way I'm coming back from France just to go to see a play and have a couple drinks on my boss ;)
[13:54] <penguin42> being around 200 miles from my nearest other team member, I don't have that problem
[13:59] <daftykins> aww you should meet up :)
[14:00] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gs1mrdfqvrikf64/Mischief.jpg?dl=0
[14:00] <daftykins> my cat is enjoying the sun greatly today
[14:01] <zmoylan-pi> recharging
[14:01] <daftykins> yip :)
[14:01] <zmoylan-pi> cats are solar powered
[14:04] <daftykins> unless it's the competitive kind of doping cats, high on catnip
[14:07] <penguin42> daftykins: You could paint a few black splodges on that wall so it could camoflage itself
[14:08] <daftykins> haha
[14:09] <zmoylan-pi> cats don't need assistance to stealth.  i've seen a tortishell hide in plain sight lying in the sun
[14:38] <penguin42> how bizarre; Amazon are listing a b&w laser for £16.61 - and £76.69 delivery (from Italy)
[14:39] <penguin42> I guess that might not be an insane cost from Italy for delivery
[14:40] <zmoylan-pi> they have to sneak it by roman galley past the carthaginians hence the cost :-)
[14:41] <penguin42> nod, the last 3 were eaten by lions
[14:42] <zmoylan-pi> well lasers... cats...
[14:42] <penguin42> hmm a few of this thing showing up - I wonder if this is an effect of a low euro, so we're seeing a lot of European products show up in price sorts
[14:58] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi, penguin42: everyone in europe has to send things through Greece to help them pay off their debt
[14:58] <davmor2> would of €5 otherwise
[14:58] <davmor2> s/of/of benn
[14:59] <davmor2> been even
[15:46] <shauno> I'd be tempted to have a holiday there, but they cranked the VAT up
[15:47] <daftykins> would have been (:
[15:48] <shauno> I've been looking at boat rentals, and spain is cheaper atm.  quite counter-intuitive
[16:08] <TwistedLucidity> shauno: Didn't think the VAT increase had had a *huge* effect. Seemed to just be the odd euro here or there.
[16:08] <TwistedLucidity> Although I guess boat rental is a high-ticket item, so could hurt.
[16:10] <shauno> a 10% increase adds up quickly
[16:11] <shauno> (on the other hand, I find it unfathomable that it was previously 13%.  no wonder the coffers are dry)
[16:12] <penguin42> shauno: Well at one point not that long ago our VAT was down at that level; but I don't have much sympathy if they're that broke that they don't put it up
[16:14] <TwistedLucidity> 13% is OK if you have enough money moving and people aren't siphoning it off into secret accounts....
[16:15] <penguin42> there was an interesting article I saw saying that the £60/day limit didn't extend to credit and debit cards, so there was a lot of buying of high value goods
[16:15] <daftykins> i enjoy being VAT free (:
[16:16] <daftykins> just a shame Google, Microsoft and Apple typically don't like to acknowledge we exist
[16:16] <TwistedLucidity> You can bet that, despite the rhetoric, large amounts of the money passed through the City of London unchecked.
[16:16] <TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Where's "we"?
[16:16]  * penguin42 hopes some of it stopped here so it can pay our taxes...
[16:16] <daftykins> Channel Islands
[16:16] <daftykins> or rather the Bailiwick of Guernsey specifically, as i think Jersey has a 5% GST
[16:17] <TwistedLucidity> So..."daftykins Trust LLC" :-D
[16:18] <shauno> does that mean that if I buy something in guernsey, I'd be due import duty here?
[16:23] <TwistedLucidity> shauno: Not 100% sure, wiki implies not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAT-free_imports_from_the_Channel_Islands#Channel_Islands
[16:24]  * penguin42 can't remember the trick they used to stop all the CD/DVDs being delivered from there
[16:25] <TwistedLucidity> shauno: When I was importing bike parts from the USA, the HMRC phoneline was actually really helpful.
[16:25] <TwistedLucidity> penguin42: I think it was "Oi! Just gonnae no?"
[16:25] <penguin42> TwistedLucidity/shauno: For a long time a lot of the discount CD/DVD vendors were based there
[16:25] <TwistedLucidity> penguin42: Yeah, I think Amazon or someone was involved. Trading name of "Blackstar" ISTRC
[16:26] <penguin42> TwistedLucidity: Oh yeh, as was Play.com and a few others
[16:27] <shauno> I think being in the republic would complicate that, since we have no relationship with the smaller islands
[16:27] <penguin42> shauno: I'm not sure, it's an odd setup, because they're members of the EU
[16:27] <TwistedLucidity> If they are considered part of the EU for duty purposes; I doubt there's much the South can do.
[16:27] <TwistedLucidity> And sorry, I assumed you were UK.
[16:28] <shauno> no worries, it's a fair enough assumption in here :)
[16:28] <popey> Asus Nvidia GeForce GTX 750 Ti - worth getting over my current 460?
[16:29] <popey> http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-750-Ti-vs-GeForce-GTX-460
[16:29] <popey> hmmm
[16:31] <davmor2> MooDoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQC7dweRTKU :)
[16:42] <daftykins> popey: nah
[16:42] <popey> nah?
[16:43] <daftykins> i don't think it's enough of a step up
[16:43] <daftykins> maybe if it were free :>
[16:58] <awilkins> I'm contemplating a 980Ti
[16:58] <awilkins> Of course, that's an absurd death machine of a GPU
[16:59] <bigcalm> For a moment I thought you were talking about a calculator
[16:59] <awilkins> If excellent graphics kills people, it's probably the Hitler of GPUs.
[16:59] <awilkins> With the Titan X being the current Ghengis Khan or whoever killed more people as a fraction of the human population than Hitler
[18:44] <brobostigon> how much do roses cost these days?
[18:44] <penguin42> the packs have got smaller over the years, but it's not great chocolate....
[18:46] <brobostigon> its my and my gf's two year anniversary this weekend, sortof.
[18:46] <davmor2> brobostigon: more than a pound and less than a million
[18:46] <brobostigon> eeeek, :(
[18:47] <davmor2> brobostigon: I guess it depends on where you live, how many and type
[18:47] <penguin42> and whether you nick them from the neighbours garden
[18:47] <brobostigon> north oxfordshire.
[18:48] <davmor2> I wolves I can get Velvet Crush at £3 a rose so a dozen would be £36
[18:48] <davmor2> In wolves even
[18:50] <brobostigon> better queston being, are flowers still an appropriate thing.?
[18:51] <directhex> IME girls want RAM.
[18:51] <directhex> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2000/12/22/i-mean-who-doesnt
[18:52] <brobostigon> RAM ?
[18:53] <shauno> I never saw the value in finding some living organisms, beheading them and presenting their corpses to rot before you as a gift.  but disclaimer, I don't understand women at all.
[18:54] <brobostigon> i think i have that advantage, of better memory, my aspieness remebers almost every moment of most days, :(
[18:54] <davmor2> brobostigon: Flowers/Chocolate/Perfume/Jewellery/Evening Out always with a card, I think are all valid
[18:54] <brobostigon> are you aspie shauno ?
[18:54] <brobostigon> davmor2: ok cool, ty.
[18:54] <shauno> not that I know of
[18:56] <brobostigon> shauno: most NT people wouldnt have analysed it how you just did in my experience.
[18:57] <davmor2> brobostigon: Note the Always with a CARD! bit otherwise you get the 3rd degree,  with a card it's a special occasion so allowed :)
[18:58] <brobostigon> davmor2: i see, so i get her a special card, like something handmade?
[18:59] <davmor2> brobostigon: Yeah or just a standard Anniversary card, just not a numbered one :)
[19:00] <brobostigon> davmor2: of course not a numbered one, they wont exist. got you, i think i understand.
[19:41] <diddledan> ello
[21:08]  * brobostigon is sad, he is listening to ELO.
[21:09] <penguin42> Mr Blue Skies?
[21:09] <shauno> how could that possibly make him sad?
[21:10] <brobostigon> its something thats bad music, but is also strangly likable.
[21:10] <shauno> bad?!
[21:11] <brobostigon> POv, yes.
[21:58] <penguin42> bad music ?! Tsk - I like ELO