bluesabreoh yeah00:00
bluesabreAugust 6th - Ubuntu 14.04.300:00
knomehrhr, productive night00:10
knomefor you too :)00:11
knomenice to see you around again00:11
jjfrv8been lurking00:11
knomeochosi, there's now "some hover-style"00:23
knomepleia2, id you don't mind, you could reply to the people on the G+ list about the progress (by linking to the mail or in your own words if you wish)00:25
knomepleia2, ahem, other question that i've just forgot the answer to... was there anything stopping us from publishing the derivative guidelines (except maybe the package list)00:28
pleia2knome: updated g+ thread, and the derivative guidelines are fine aside from the package list04:37
krytarikknome: The outcome of my review of the docs' PDF addition (slightly excessive bzr diff): http://paste.openstack.org/show/TqRvKDxmr9moJBkJD66C/04:59
ochosibluesabre: i did, but only briefly05:14
ochosibluesabre: works nicely! i really dig it :) the only small thing that could be improved is the "apply" icon. not sure that one is really ideal. plus the proposed filename for exporting is currently "Unnamed" instead of Backup_2015_7-22_07_15_30.tar.gz (or whatever our file-format was again)05:17
ochosibluesabre: from my pov a 0.1 can still be released and we can tweak those things for 0.205:18
ochosibluesabre: also, interesting diff in "date modified" for the same panel setup that was exported and imported again: http://i.imgur.com/KQbmw9R.png05:21
ochosibluesabre: and as a last note, maybe ctrl+w/q or alt+c could close the window (or esc)05:22
ochosibluesabre: other than that, premium work!05:22
Luyinhi knome 06:19
Luyinknome you asked for XSLT on the mailing list. here I am ;)06:20
knomeLuyin, oh hello! the branch is lp:xubuntu-docs and the stylesheet at desktop-guide/libs/xubuntu-docbook-pdf.xsl10:05
knomeLuyin, i don't have a clear idea what we should do with it (yet), but if you have ideas, feel free to experiment around :)10:07
Luyinknome well I'm not that into the material, and atm busy with organising my wedding, but I'll be glad to help from october on :)10:08
LuyinI'm going to subscribe in launchpad and keep watching out. if I can do anything in between, I'll do10:09
knomeLuyin, great! thanks for your interest, and congratulations on the wedding :)10:09
Luyinthx, and yw ;)10:10
knomeslickymasterWork, how do we want to work with the different paper sizes?13:19
knomeexport all languages in all paper sizes, or keep up a list of preferred paper sizes (either or both) for certain languages?13:20
slickymasterWorkI think the later would be the best option knome 13:20
knomeUnit193, i have some Makefile hacking for you... see slickymasterWork's comment above13:21
astraljavaCould it be made dynamic, so that people could select which size they'd want, and the server would generate it for them?13:33
knome"the server"?13:33
astraljavaWait, where is this documentation?13:34
knomei'm talking about shipping these with the package13:34
astraljavaOhh, right.13:34
knomealso, dynamic is meh13:34
astraljavaMy bad.13:34
knomeit's mostly NA people who want something else than A413:34
astraljavaDynamic is super awesome, but yeah doesn't really work here. :D13:34
astraljavaThe way I see it, they must be forced to the metric system anyway, why not start here? :D (granted, I have no idea whether paper sizes relate to the metric/imperial struggle)13:35
slickymasterWork~yes, I really don't believe there's a wide 'market' for other sizes other than the most used13:36
qwebirc846751damn connection13:39
knomeat least it's a non-problem here to produce various sizes13:39
knomeso considering that, we could just do a4 and letter for all13:40
=== qwebirc846751 is now known as slickymasterWork
knomeen needs both13:40
knomees needs both13:40
knomefr needs both13:40
knomewhat's left? fi and pt for a413:41
knomeoh and de likely needs both13:41
knomeso it's not like we're building dozens of letter versions in vain13:42
* slickymasterWork agrees13:42
* astraljava wonders why fi would need both?13:42
astraljavaOh, sorry. Doesn't say so.13:42
knomeastraljava, it wouldn't, but it's more work to NOT produce the letter size13:42
astraljavaRight, because of the stupid Makefile?13:42
knomewho knows if american finnish people want to read the documentation on paper13:43
knomejust that we should maintain the list for languages that do not need both size13:43
knomeand read that at build time13:43
astraljavaYes, understood.13:43
knomepleia2, slickymasterWork: wondering if we really need the canonical copyright statement for the docs13:44
knomeeven our website says: © 2012–2015 The Xubuntu community. Xubuntu and Canonical are registered trademarks of Canonical Ltd.13:45
knome(yes, i've silently went and changed that at some point)13:45
knomeanyway, for anybody interested: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/docs-pdfexport/xubuntu-documentation.pdf13:46
Reklanknome, thats looking really good.14:01
pleia2knome: I'd use the same wording as on the site14:07
ochosiknome: i'd say a4-only is fine for de14:15
ochosiand yay, that looks yummy! nice work!14:16
* pleia2 gets sent photos of xubuntu being used in a clinic in uganda14:20
pleia2<3 <314:20
pleia2I'll see if these can be shared14:20
ochosipleia2: sounds great! so a third "xubuntu at..." article? :)14:30
pleia2ochosi: they're affiliated with one we previously interviewed, so likely not, but if they non-profit makes them public I'd share them on social media14:31
ochosioh ok14:32
knomepleia2, i'll do "The Xubuntu documentation team", because... yeah, the "community" doesn't own the copyright14:37
knomeprobably better change the wording on site to "The Xubuntu team" too14:38
knomeor sth14:38
pleia2knome: yeah14:38
krytarikknome: I'm guessing you overlooked this change -- sed -i 's@\(>The contributors to\) this translation of the \(documentation are:</\)@\1 the various translations of this \2@' fo/C.fo -- here?: http://paste.openstack.org/show/TqRvKDxmr9moJBkJD66C/17:37
knomekrytarik, maybe.17:39
krytarikYou can blame bzr for that, of course! :P17:39
knomekrytarik, another thing i think we should do is separate the translation target so targets like translate-pdf can peruse that17:39
knomekrytarik, i'll be working with the branch today and i will get to the diff at some point, but if you don't mind doing a merge request for the rest of your change (and why not the translation thingy too), i'd love to see one :)17:58
krytarikOh, I was hoping you'd merge those in with the rest of the stuff. :P17:59
knomeehh :)18:01
knomeas i said, i'll do that at some point18:01
knomethat is, if you don't do the MP18:01
knomewhat do you thin about splitting the translation stuff?18:02
knomeif we set it up wisely, we can avoid creating translations for xml twice18:03
knomeif all calls: clean html translate translate-pdf18:04
knomeand both translate and translate-pdf call the same target, does it simply get done twice?18:05
knomeor is the makefile wise enough to avoid doing the same target another time?18:05
krytarikThe output format for both is different - and another one for each print size.18:08
knomexml isn't18:15
knomeit is18:15
krytarikReg. that, '--stringparam paper.type "$$paper"' is missing from the 'pdf' and 'translate-pdf' targets.18:23
krytarikIf we could somehow create HTMLs from 'fo- files, however.18:26
krytarik* 'fo'18:26
knomei don't think that would be sensible though18:27
knomewhy add one more processing step if you can avoid it18:27
krytarikBecause right now, as you mentioned, it triplicates.18:27
knomeonly duplicates18:28
krytarik1 HTML, 1 A4, 1 US Letter.18:28
knomei also fear that even if doing fo -> HTML would be possible, it would mean changes in the HTML output -> need to change the CSS18:28
knomethat's life18:28
knomei wonder if we could hack the fo file18:29
knometo first allow for an A4 export, then US letter18:29
knomemost likely yes18:29
knomepage-width="8.5in" page-height="11in"18:30
knomeoccurs once per page18:30
knomethen the .fo file is ~765kB, not sure how fast grepping that is18:31
knomewell, compared to simply creating another fo..18:31
knomeoops, i found a bug in mousepad18:32
knomeopen multiple windows18:32
knomeenable word wrap in one18:32
knome-> all documents are word wrapped (as expected i guess)18:32
knomethen go to another window18:32
knomethe word wrap item in the menu shows a wrong state (eg. as if word wrap was disabled)18:32
knomenow it doesn't happen18:33
knomeno it does18:33
knomeand when you then select that, nothing happens18:33
knomebut the state is now correct18:33
krytarikJust the state indicator doesn't update immediately, it seems.18:34
knomeyep, that18:35
knomeok, new makefiles pushed18:36
krytarikWell, at least I won't have to do an MP now. :P18:37
knomeyep :P18:37
krytarikknome: First, http://paste.openstack.org/show/6IpT3KcvwH83hljx2MuN/ - and I'm working on the other thing.19:15
knomestill? :P19:21
krytarikWell, that's the thing with not testing stuff properly. :D19:22
knomenoooo, is THAT it? (;19:22
knomei have it changed locally, when you have more incoming stuff i'll commit+push19:22
knomeso one interesting question...20:02
knomedroid sans doesn't have italic, should we continue using it but drop in the open sans italic style, or switch completely?20:03
knomeand for future reference, we might need to include more droid fonts if we had some languages that didn't use latin alphabet20:06
=== flocculant_ is now known as flocculant
knomebut that's a stretch...20:06
krytarikknome: Switch completely from Droid Sans, no; make italic use something fitting, yes.20:16
knomeopen sans is derived from droid sans, so...20:19
krytarikDo they always look the same though?20:21
knomenot at all20:21
knomebut the italic style should be close enough to not look awkward20:21
knomeyeah... we have no problems with this20:34
knomeit's a perfect hoax20:34
flocculantodd wording20:36
knomewhich one?20:36
knomehoax? :)20:36
flocculantto the most common 20:36
flocculantyea - hoax is pretty odd :p20:36
knomewell... we have this bzr branch...20:37
flocculantok - so I had a few guesses at that branch name 20:38
knomebzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs20:38
flocculantoh good 20:41
flocculantall that ssh key stuff again 20:41
flocculantno keys at all here20:44
knomeneed help?20:45
flocculantknome: ok - so what file is that in? 21:12
flocculantlooked in there - couldn't see it ... 21:14
flocculantlooked again 21:14
* knome checks at some point21:18
knomestupid xsl processing21:18
flocculantthanks - I'll conveniently forget quickly about doing doc stuff 21:20
krytarikknome: There you go - decided for 'bzr diff' still: http://paste.openstack.org/show/PtdjFdz6lLMoCYhVjnnO/21:47
knomelet's see if i can figure this out - i've made some changes to the Makefile myself since this and i'm also dropping the test target22:00
krytarikHeh, and here I updated it for you too. :P22:01
knomeare pushed now22:02
knomeflocculant, your changes as well22:03
flocculantokey doke22:03
knomenow, that is22:04
flocculanttime to wander off now 22:04
flocculantnight all 22:04
knomegood night!22:04
knomekrytarik, wondering if the A4 version should be without -A4 in the filename, but let's leave that for another day22:10
krytarikYeah, I wondered about that too, since it's the default now.22:10
krytarikHowever, I decided that it's better as it is.22:11
krytarikBecause the reader doesn't know what's the default.22:12
knomei guess so22:12
krytarikNext up is linking them somehow. :P22:12
knomeyyep, just added a work item for that22:12
knomei have this crazy idea22:13
knometo make a full fledged table to the front page22:13
knome"Finnish    View in HTML    PDF  A4  US letter"22:14
knomeor a subpage for the front page22:14
knomethat would mean no extra magic would be needed for the website22:14
knome"See all formats and languages"22:14
krytarikYeah, we'll figure it out.22:15
knomeor Unit193.22:15
krytarikHowever, I earlier thought about linking them from the respective doc version's main page, at the top.22:16
knomelike http://docs.xubuntu.org/1504/ ?22:16
knomeor like http://docs.xubuntu.org/1504/fi/index.html ?22:17
krytarikThe latter.22:17
knomeyeah, why not22:17
knomeone *more* thing22:17
knomethe "welcome" section is technically the "abstract" for the documentation22:17
knomeand while that isn't so crap for the website, it's a bit awkward how it's presented on the PDF22:18
knomeso maybe we need to reconsider the technicality of that22:18
krytarikYep, I agree.22:26
krytarikknome: Btw, reading your mail finally, I'm not sure we want to *ship* all those PDFs too, rather than just make them available on the website - after all, the docs *are* already offline available at that point.22:34
knomebut not in a printable form22:35
knomei think ochosi wants to ship them too22:35
knomeand i don't think that's at least a bad idea22:35
knomebut i don't have strong feelings about it22:36
knomei'm happy that the export is there now22:36
knomelet's allow users to use it as they please :)22:36
knome- even to the point of printing it out22:37
knomei know we wanted to get rid of that, but maybe we should reintroduce the version number on the documentation22:37
knomenot only the startpage22:37
knomeactually, maybe we can do it in a way that is invisible for the web22:38
knomebut visible in the PDF22:38
krytarikYeah, print version, I agree.22:38
knomeuseless in the HTML version22:38
krytarikI mean, reg. shipping the PDFs.22:39
knomeaha :)22:39
krytarikYeah, was busy with deleting emails. :P22:40
knomeand the PDF version does give some benefits over the HTML version22:40
knomesome like that22:40
knomefor example continue-where-you-left22:40
krytarikYeah, noticed.22:40
knomeand the chapter index can be more useful22:40
knomeand yeah, printing out even parts of it - a troubleshooting guide or so, so you can checkmark what you've done22:41
knomeand if listing one more target for buildtime is what we need to do to ship it... then yeah, no reason not to22:41
krytarikCan't we specify the version number for the footer or something?22:42
knomeor just the verso page22:42
knome(the one(s) after the title (secto) page)22:43
knomesee, i'm all too deep into docbook/xsl(t)/fo22:43
krytarikNeck deep really, yes. :P22:44
knomestuff happens.22:44
krytarikknome: http://docs.xubuntu.org/1504/C/index.html → "Xubuntu Documentation <release>" - problem solved. :P22:51
krytarikI think there is nothing wrong with showing it like that.22:52
knomebut then that will be the PDF title22:52
knomewhich is not the most ideal imo22:52
krytarikBleh, yes.22:52
knomeso rather something that can be output on the PDF easily22:52
knomebut that is left out from HTML22:52
knomeor hidden22:52
krytarikActually, that'd "Xubuntu <release> Documentation".22:53
krytarik+ be22:53
knomethat's even worse22:53
knomethere's no way to translate that to finnish22:53
knomeboth versions would have to be translated to "Xubuntu dokumentaatio versiolle X"22:53
knomeif you wanted to be very correct...22:53
krytarikSo, no difference... :D22:54
knomei talked about this with pl-eia222:54
knome"right-click X" -> "napsauta X:ää hiiren oikealla painikkeella"22:55
knomewelcome to finland.22:55
krytarikUff, yeah.22:55
knomeand if X is a button, it would better to be "napsauta painikeeta X hiiren oikealla painikkeella"22:56
krytarikEnough with that already! :P22:57
knomejust had to correct that error...:P22:57
krytarikYeah, I get that. :P22:57
krytarikknome: Just noticed, again I think, the page title of  http://docs.xubuntu.org/1504/  is "Welcome to Xubuntu!", while the page *header* is "Welcome to Xubuntu 15.04 Documentation!".23:11
krytarikIn that context.23:11
knomemaybe the title should be "Xubuntu Documentation"23:13
krytarikYeah, at least.23:13
knomethat is, the <title>23:13
krytarikThat is, "Welcome to Xubuntu Documentation!"23:14
knomethis is hard because23:14
knomethis isn't the documentation23:14
knomethe documentation is the official documentation link23:14
knomethis is just the startpage for the docs/support/getting involved info23:15
krytarikBut the header states so! :D23:17
krytarikI think that's just too picky. :P23:17
krytarikBoth should refer to the same anyway.23:18
krytarikSpeaking of which, "The Official Documentation provides information to the most common issues with Xubuntu." :P23:19
knomeyep, i noticed!23:19
krytarikConsistency FTL! :D23:19
knomethat paragraph should make more sense anyway23:20
knomeit was just a placeholder when i put it there23:20
knomebut then... life happened :P23:20
krytarikYeah, could be more elaborate, I guess.23:20

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