magespawngood morning05:22
Kilosmorning all05:55
Kiloshi pieter2627 06:10
pieter2627morning all and oom Kilos 06:10
pieter2627lekker gereen van oggend06:11
Kilos6.5mm rain last night06:11
Kilosen krag af meeste van die nag ook06:11
pieter2627haha, ons sin aan vir a slag06:11
pieter2627teen minste nie so erg - het eintlik net gister se shedding gemis nadat elke dag die week af was06:13
Kilossjoe ons was nog nie een keer af nie06:13
Kilosnet gisteraand van die storm06:14
Kiloswb magespawn 06:15
Kiloshi ThatGraemeGuy 06:32
inetprogood mornings06:47
Kiloshi inetpro mazal 06:49
mazalMore oom06:49
mazalMorning everyone06:49
mazalTGIF !!!!06:49
Kilosdo we still have members in durban08:05
Kilosdbnlug is planning lp1 courses and the lp11 guys will help them08:05
Kilos LPI Southern Africa, would like to assist08:06
Kiloswwk doing good down there08:07
Kilospity he forget to irc08:07
ThatGraemeGuyCryterion is in that region08:36
Kilosaha ty ThatGraemeGuy 08:36
* Cryterion is in Dbn08:56
KilosCryterion  did you read09:04
Kilosill try remember to get wwk here to the meeting next weekso you guys can meet09:05
Kilosor do you know him already09:05
Kilosvery nice guy and always helpful09:06
Kilosor pm me your email address and ill forward his mail to you09:07
* mazal peeks in for 5 min09:07
mazalIt's one of those Fridays that's Monday 09:08
Kilosiirc it was an idea to get ubuntu peeps and lugs to work together and wwk agrees09:08
Kilosai! mazal wat nou09:08
Kilosjust fix things man09:08
mazalOom , lot's of pebkac and crap domain and crap technitians problems today09:08
mazalAnd people not listening , and people not reading09:09
mazaletc. etc. etc.09:09
Kilospeople never listen anymore09:09
Kilosyu should be used to that by now09:09
mazalAnd quick favor this and quick favor that09:09
mazalWhich is never quick09:09
mazalAnd it always amazes me how quickly people suddenly develop a "problem" when they see you09:10
mazalYou go for 1 thing and wind up with 20 09:11
mazalmaaz it's time09:11
Maazmazal: What?09:11
mazalmaaz time for lunch09:11
Maazmazal: Huh?09:11
* mazal has a cheeseburger on the way :)09:12
mazalhmm... http://www.pcworld.com/article/2949106/software-web/one-ubuntu-pc-maker-is-kicking-adobe-flash-off-its-linux-systems.html09:19
CryterionKilos yes I did read, where could I get more info on it?09:25
Cryterionhi mazal09:26
KilosCryterion  i asked wwk to approve you10:17
Kilosmight need to be vince0 that does it, i forget10:17
Kiloshere is their site methinks http://durbanlinux.org.za/?page_id=1010:19
Kiloswe as buntu peeps need to work more at getting lugs peeps onto irc10:20
Kiloshi Squirm 10:20
SquirmFighting with ssh-agent and git :/10:20
SquirmI need to start ssh-agent, add a key and clone a few repo's in one scipt10:22
SquirmFor the life of me, I can't get it working10:22
SquirmNot authenticating :/10:24
mazalHi Cryterion , sorry I was attacked swamp here by lots of users again10:25
SquirmUsing hashicorp's Atlas. Somehow the ssh command is run as root, but the rest of the commands are run as user10:28
magespawnSquirm: and the user cannot run the commands as root?10:29
Squirmmagespawn: now that I know the ssh command runs as root. I can work around it10:30
Kiloshi magespawn 10:30
SquirmWe're trying to get packer to build our dev box on Atlas, as apposed to running it locally10:30
magespawndoes it run as root automatically?10:30
magespawnhi Kilos 10:30
Squirmmagespawn: yes :/10:30
Squirm"ssh-add" runs as root, where "ssh -vT git@bitbucket.org" is running as the user10:31
Squirmsorry, swapped around :D10:31
Squirm"ssh-add" runs as the user, where "ssh -vT git@bitbucket.org" is running as root10:31
inetproNOTE: as of today (July 23, 2015), Ubuntu 14.10 is no longer supported... 10:33
* Kilos no worry10:35
Kilosim happy with 14.0410:35
mazalOe nice , I just discobered I have 10gig spare in the bank :)11:08
mazalHallo oom11:28
mazalGuys what is a good brand to look at when concidering an SSD ?11:31
KilosSquirm  11:31
SquirmKilos: ?11:31
Kiloscan you help please11:31
KilosGood day11:32
KilosDoes anybody know where Red Hat Administration Training is done. My11:32
Kilosorganization would like to send someone for training.11:32
SquirmWhere are they based?11:32
Kilosthis is from some other country in africa11:32
Kilosi forget where11:32
Kilosoh i think ghana lug11:33
Kilosor zim11:33
Kilosall these emails drive me nuts11:35
Kilosi should say more nuts11:35
SquirmHome time11:38
Kiloshi qwebirc80545 12:14
qwebirc80545Hi Kilos, this is my first time here12:15
Kiloswelcome to ubuntu-za12:16
Kilosif you need help just state what you need12:16
stickyboyWe should reach out to LUGs in Asia.12:19
Kiloslol we need to get all africa lugs first stickyboy 12:19
Kilosbut the rest of the world will be next, dont worry12:20
Kilosdo they make nice feta?12:20
qwebirc80545Thanks for the welcome. I will do ask and keep in touch as I am planning to to fully migrate to Ubuntu. I'm running a dual boot machine and two other machines and a server running Ubuntu. So I am excited  being here  12:22
Kilosgreat qwebirc80545 yu can start by getting a proper irc client like hexchat if you are using unity]12:23
Kilosthen you done have to come via the site or browser12:23
mazalHi qwebirc80545 , welcome :)12:24
qwebirc80545Great, I'll sure get the client, 12:24
qwebirc80545Hello mazal :D12:24
Kilosyou know how to use the terminal12:24
Kilosthen its simple12:25
mazalHey , that's the best smile I got all day :)12:25
mazalEven oom Kilos gave me cold shoulder today :(12:25
Kilosnever man12:25
Kilosi was busy in africa most likely12:26
mazalI am right here in africa as well12:26
qwebirc80545haha yes I am able to use terminal12:26
Kilosand im looking at the frree electricity video in between12:26
Kilosright qwebirc80545 type in12:26
Kilossudo apt-get install hexchat12:26
mazalok , time to start shutting down12:27
qwebirc80545I'll have to do that when I get home, mean time I'll copy that command , thanks kilos12:27
mazalHave a nice afternoon everyone12:28
mazalBye for now12:28
Kiloscool qwebirc80545 we are here most of the time12:28
Kiloschers mazal 12:28
mazalCheers all12:28
mazalCheers maaz12:28
mazalmaaz bye12:29
MaazCheers mazal12:29
mazaldaarsy :)12:29
qwebirc80545Cheers mazal, @kilos That's awesome. Plus tomorrow there is a server I need to finish installing and configuring so I'm gonna  need advice on that12:30
Kiloswell you have come to the right place12:30
ThatGraemeGuytomorrow this place is a ghost town12:30
CryterionI'll be around configuring a server tomorrow as well12:31
Kilosthere you go12:31
qwebirc80545Well then I'll have to ask you guys now then, but Cryterion to my rescue :)12:31
ThatGraemeGuysounds like work12:31
ThatGraemeGuyand I don't work on weekends12:31
ThatGraemeGuywell unless stuff breaks12:32
Kilosthe ubuntu-za team always has answers12:32
ThatGraemeGuybut not this weekend12:32
* Cryterion logs onto ThatGraemeGuy's server to go break it12:32
ThatGraemeGuygood luck with that :)12:32
Kilosmany of us are here 7 days a week qwebirc80545 12:33
CryterionSo I must try? ;)12:33
ThatGraemeGuyit's your minetest game, be my guest12:33
Cryterionlol, I know12:33
ThatGraemeGuythere's nothing else on there to break12:33
ThatGraemeGuyhave a good weekend everyone, it's beer o'clock12:37
Cryterionenjoy, I have to wait :(12:38
qwebirc80545As I am going to install a server, I can either install it as a virtual machine or dedicate a machine to operate only Ubuntu Server, right now I am thinking of installing Ubuntu desktop then run Ubuntu Server on a virtual machine. The idea is to host multiple website on those servers but I am concerned with regards to performance and maintenance 12:38
KilosCryterion  your turn12:41
CryterionJust run with the desktop version, you can add in the extra packages to make it a full server12:42
CryterionSo it'll become a server with a gui12:42
pieter2627qwebirc80545: personal sites?12:43
Kilosi ran server on a seperate machine12:43
CryterionNot sure yet how to add multiple sites yet, but I run a single .co.za domain on 14.04lts desktop12:44
qwebirc80545Both personal and non personal. Yes its going to be on a separate machine 12:44
qwebirc80545Apache is able to create virtual host for different websites12:45
pieter2627there might not be a reason to create a VM for each - VMs take a lot of resources12:45
CryterionYes apache can, just haven't done that yet12:45
Cryterionpieter2627 Virtual Hosts not VM's is what Apache does12:46
* pieter2627 personally likes containers over VM - quick to build, move and use less resources12:46
pieter2627Cryterion: exactly, but sounded like he wanted to create a vm for each (or i am not reading properly)12:47
CryterionThink he mean 1 machine with the desktop, and a VM for the server OS12:48
pieter2627'host multiple website on those servers' threw me off12:49
Cryterionthought so :)12:49
qwebirc80545I tried the virtual host on a virtual server, but I wondered about VM 's for each website on a single desktop12:49
Cryterionthat'll be a waste of resources as pieter said with multiple vm's12:50
CryterionI would just let Apache handle the seperating of each site12:52
pieter2627rather use a VM for each service (mySQL, apache, etc.)12:52
stickyboypieter2627: How do you use containers in production?12:53
stickyboyBuy a server on AWS or Linode and run containers on it?12:53
stickyboySSH to the host and deploy containers?12:53
stickyboyI just can't wrap my head around it.12:53
qwebirc80545Cryterion That is what I need to know, so running mysql, apace etc as vm's won't waste resources?12:54
stickyboyAlso, I hate the Docker jargon, branding, fanbois, etc. Ugh.12:54
pieter2627stickyboy: i only use containers for dev and home server12:54
stickyboypieter2627: Ah.12:54
Cryterionthis might help http://myownhomeserver.com/2012/12/how-to-create-multiple-websites-using-apache-xampp/12:55
pieter2627stickyboy: but i have seen tools to move containers to productions servers effortlessly when i looked into containers12:56
* pieter2627 remembers using webmin in his earlier days with apache... too bad that it is no longer an option12:57
Cryterionqwebirc80545 this could help you for the multiple MySQL servers https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/multiple-servers.html12:58
stickyboypieter2627: Right now I'm into Ansible, templates, host and group variables, etc.12:59
stickyboyI think I'll just watch the container stuff evolve a bit more.12:59
pieter2627stickyboy: have no idea what any are13:00
qwebirc80545Thanks Cryterion, I would have been knocking my head all day and night about this. I'm clear headed now13:00
Cryterionqwebirc80545 The way I see it just passing through those sites is run 1 Apache Server, then multiple instances of MySQL, 1 for each site13:01
Cryterionyw :)13:01
pieter2627Cryterion: why multiple instances of MySQL?13:02
Cryterion1 for each site 1 instance/server, each on it's own thread, rather than a vm running extra background stuff to run it13:03
pieter2627qwebirc80545: ubuntu server also has a minimal install option that is great for VMs13:03
pieter2627Cryterion: 1 VM, multiple instances?13:04
Cryteriona vm would make a new machine, needing a kernel, background io stuff, apache on each13:05
CryterionWhy run multiple vm's, multiple Apache servers when mysql only has to be multiple13:06
* pieter2627 thinks one VM with multiple mySQL instances is great, just wanted to make it clear13:07
qwebirc80545So I would run apache with virtual hosts containing different sites and  multiple vm's with mysql on each one...13:07
CryterionNo, apache running, and just multiple instances of mysql13:08
CryterionIf you put mysql into a vm, i'll need it own apache server13:08
stickyboyMultiple MySQL databases... one instance...13:09
CryterionAll of it can run on a desktop ubuntu, no need for a vm13:09
pieter2627For a start i would suggest one machine for all like Cryterion just said13:11
Cryterionstickyboy I think rather multiple instances, as multiple databases would probably become multiple database to 1 site13:11
stickyboyCryterion: Multiple instances means more overhead...13:13
stickyboyJust use naming prefixes for your databases: site1_blah, site1_omg13:14
stickyboySeriously, it's what you are supposed to do.13:14
Cryterionqwebirc80545 maybe tryout what stickyboy is saying, ^^^^^13:15
CryterionThat being for MySQL13:15
qwebirc80545What if I need a fallover? Should it be multiple mysql?13:15
stickyboyqwebirc80545: Failover on another machine? Yes.13:15
qwebirc80545Ok I need to write this down13:17
stickyboyWell the failover thing is just common sense.13:19
stickyboyIf attempting to protect from hardware failure, then you need to have a MySQL slave.13:20
stickyboy(on a separate machine)13:20
qwebirc80545Yes of course13:23
=== rusbus is now known as Russ_|Away
qwebirc80545I have read through the next meeting's agenda, and I'll signup13:26
=== Russ_|Away is now known as rusbus
Kilosqwebirc80545  welcome aboard14:00
Kilosbest channel to be on hey14:00
qwebirc80545Thanks Kikos it is very helpful14:05
Kilosqwyou still here?14:45
Kilosyou can join us you know14:46
Kilosbecome part of the coolest community around14:47
Kilosoh well14:48
Kilosmore is nog n dag14:48
Kilossjoe inetpro jy nog nie huis toe nie?14:49
Kiloshi kulelu88 mazal 15:04
Kilosohi Private_User 15:04
* Cryterion waits patiently for Ubuntu server 15.04 to download17:08
Private_Userhi Kilos17:10
inetproui! 17:31
Kilosish is an ubuntu guy in mauritius17:33
KilosCryterion  wht 15.0417:34
inetprohe is irish :-D 17:34
inetproI rish17:35
Kilosis server support longer?17:35
Kilosyou should told the new guy we here dark times as well17:36
Cryterion15.04 is latest stable, I wanted to go server only, anything above 15.04 is 64-bit, needed a 32-bit version17:38
CryterionThe newguy wanted a desktop and server, hence where the VM came in17:39
Kilosyeah but isnt it only 6 months support17:39
mazalI think17:40
Cryterioneven if only 6months is fine for me now17:40
Kilosagainst 5 years for lts17:40
Kilosoh ok17:40
CryterionIt's a tryout for me, putting it on a seperate hdd so I can just swop out on the machine17:41
Kilosoh Cryterion 17:44
Kilosyou going to use the scond drive as a vm from the first drive?17:45
Cryterionnope, physical swop out17:46
Cryterionmachine can only hold the 1 hdd17:46
CryterionI needed to start from a scratch install to setup iRedMail, so thought I'd try out server only this time17:48
Cryterionvery mini pc, mecer nettop17:48
Cryterionthe size of my to hands put together17:48
Kilosok now lets say17:49
Kilosif i put a second drive in a laptop in place of the dvdrom17:50
Cryterionphysically won't fit17:50
Kiloscould i install server on a vm there and use it17:50
Kilosoh wont it17:51
Cryterionvm is virtual, needs to run under the main os17:51
Cryterionyou can't run the vm without the main os running17:51
Kilosoh cant it use another drive17:51
Kilosthe vm i mean17:52
Cryterionyes can, for it's storage, but the other drive would have to mounted in the main os first17:52
Kilosso then it becomes like just another partition17:53
Cryterionand you can allocate whatever space needed be the vm there17:54
Cryterionbe back in a bit, need to go pickup my daughter17:55
magespawngood evening18:15
magespawnhow are you Cryterion ?18:18
magespawnthat good, wow18:23
magespawnMaaz seen Kilos18:27
Maazmagespawn: Kilos was last seen 32 minutes and 34 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2015-07-24 10:54:28 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2015-07-24 11:02:14 PDT18:27
inetprowb Cryterion19:01
=== MaNL is now known as MaNI
Cryteriontks inetpro19:03
inetproMaNI: what's the difference?19:04
CryterionL & I are different!!19:04
inetproleft and in?19:05
Cryterionmaybe, not sure 19:05
MaNIsomeone was impersonating me (taking advantage of the two chars looking similar in certain fonts)19:07
MaNIso I registered it as my alt (for when I timeout) to prevent it happening again19:07
MaNIdon't ever trust sans fonts for important stuff :)19:08
inetproCryterion: how's your installation going?19:11
superflyOhi 19:15
Cryterion15.04 gets stuck at ifup-wait-all-auto.service and can't do anything from there inetpro19:16
superfly<MaNI> don't ever trust sans fonts for important stuff :)19:16
superflySo true 19:16
Cryterionwaiting for 14.04 to finish downloading, then gonna try that19:17
Cryterioncan't even ssh into the 15.04, just refuses the connection, grrr19:18
Private_Userevening all19:18
Cryterionhiya Private_User19:18
Private_Userhi Cryterion19:18
Cryterionlooks like he has inetpro blems, lol19:20
inetprolooks like a known bug as well19:21
Cryterionwill look later, anyway need to go for a bit to pick up son19:22
inetprowb Private_User19:23
Private_Userthanks inetpro19:23
Private_Usermy connection seems to be very slow at the moment19:23
Private_Usergetting ping responses of like over 3000ms19:23
Private_Userand request time outs19:24
Private_Useroh well I might as well bbl hopefully when I get back the connection has improved19:28
Private_UserBBL people19:28
mekissHi all. Cryterion you already started with the installation? 19:40
magespawnbed time, good night all19:41
Cryterionmekiss, yes had completed the installation19:41
kulelu88whos in mauritius here?19:53
Kilosgremble  wb20:11
grembleHow are you Kilos?20:11
Kilosjust before i go to bed20:11
Kilosgood ty and you?20:11
grembleI am well thank you20:12
Kilosim trying to remember how clever you are20:12
grembleNot very20:12
Kiloswho does soldering and stuff? not you?20:12
grembleNo, I have never been very good at soldering20:12
grembleI don't have enough hands20:13
grembleI'd like to learn though20:13
Kilosi found how to make free power20:13
Kilosi will help you get soldering right20:13
Kilosits all in the temperature20:13
Kilosim gonna spam here with good links20:14
Kiloswacth them and see if you keen20:14
kulelu88free as in free beer? 20:14
Kilosim going to start the hendershot fuelless generator as soon as i can get the caps and magnet20:15
Kilosout the air20:15
Kilosthem guys researchd teslas work and got it working20:15
Kilosshould actually tweet and g+ and fb that before they have "accidents"\20:16
gremble"To date no successful device exists that will be allowed to be independently and credibly tested" Would be nice to see a paper published about it20:16
Kiloswho can stop you doing stuff at home20:17
grembleNo one20:17
kulelu88I don't know. Electricity from air doesn't sound plausible, considering how much we use20:17
Kilosi will start the first one and let you know when it works20:18
gremblePlease do20:18
MaNIthat hendershot stuff is an age old scam :p though as long as you have fun and don't kill yourself I guess no harm20:18
Kilosthe one guy uses 36 volts to make big power20:18
grembleI am scepticle, but I will certainly not dissuade you. I like being surprised :D20:18
Kilosbut i want to do the first one then not need batteries as well20:19
Kiloswhen you got time watch the videos20:19
Kiloslots looking but could be well worth it20:19
Kilosif they arent fact then they cleverly sneaked power in where you cant see it20:20
grembleI'm a stickler for mathematics20:21
Kilosits all about using radio frequencies not actual ac or dc volts20:21
superflyBy the way, we're still looking for developers20:21
superflyif anyone is interested in moving to Cape Town20:21
Kilosohi superfly 20:21
superflyhi Kilos20:21
kulelu88Do you guys know how to loop through a nested dictionary? superfly ?20:22
superflykulelu88: a dictionary in a dictionary? or how does it look?20:23
kulelu88dict['users'][X]['item1']. I want to loop through X20:23
superflywhere X is changing?20:24
superflyfor key, value in dict['users'].iteritems()20:24
superfly(or just items() if you're using Python 3)20:24
Kilosok then all. sleep tight and keep warm, we 15°c max tomorrow20:25
kulelu88yeah, X is changing and I am making a fixed call on item120:26
kulelu88I was learning about datetime today. what a weird lib it is20:26
superflya lot less weird than other date time implementations20:27
superflyI think the only thing I find irritating is that there's no easy way to convert between a Python datetime object and a unix timestampp20:27
gremblesubmit a PR to python's datetime :P20:28
superflybut being able to do yesterday = datetime.now() - timedelta(hours=24)20:28
kulelu88I could use that line also. I need to make my script check the date once a day20:29
kulelu88gremble: lets move to cape town!!!20:33
grembleI'll be no good as a developer :x20:33
kulelu88we'll do this most of the summer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cGwBhgJecc20:33
grembleTherefore cape town has no good jobs20:33
grembleYou mean sharkpunching?20:34
superflygremble: but what do you want to do?20:34
kulelu88I think I'll be a shitty dev also. TDD and all that weirdness20:34
superflykulelu88: TDD is actually really cool once you understand it, and you're not trying to retrofit some large obscene mess of code with tests20:34
kulelu88This may sound stupid, but do you need to write tests for variables if you declare them as var1_int? var2_string ?20:35
kulelu88I know you could easily make var1_int = "a", but how thick would 1 have to be to not see var1_int ?20:35
superflywhy are you writing tests for variables? it seems a little silly to me?20:35
kulelu88that's part of TDD apparently. 20:36
superflyunit testing is about testing functions and methods20:36
kulelu88don't you need to test what the variables return?20:36
superflykulelu88: a sort-of side effect of TDD is that you code becomes cleaner  and more modular20:36
grembleHmm. I really like this mathematics business. So I want to see how far I can take it. But as I am sitting here I am working on a computational linear algebra library in C++ to sharpen my skill in C++ and programming something slightly less trivial than what I have been messing around with in Lisp and Haskell the past couple of weeks20:36
superflygremble: ever delved into machine learning?20:37
kulelu88gremble needs to work for a bank like standard bank. 20:37
superflykulelu88: what methods and functions return, sure. variables not so much20:37
gremblesuperfly: I've read some blog posts on it, but I will probably look at it more in an applicative sense when I do statistics again20:37
superfly(we need someone who can do or learn machine learning)20:38
kulelu88in order to test a function, you have to write a function right? what stops your testing function from failing? 20:38
superflykulelu88: yes, but you predefine your inputs and outputs, and then make sure that the function you're testing works according to how you think it should be working20:39
superflykulelu88: there are various caveats, and testing is not going to be perfect, but it's a whole lot better than untested code20:39
superflyI've worked with large codebases of both, and let me tell you, the TDD codebase was WAY less buggy20:40
kulelu88what is different in writing tests for a language like C#/Java over Python/Ruby ?20:40
grembleTDD - test driven development?20:40
superflykulelu88: not much, from what I can tell20:40
superflygremble: yes20:40
grembleOh. That is the one of the better coding paradigms20:41
superflykulelu88: there are various ways you can test things, and various scopes of testing too.20:41
kulelu88I recall someone saying something about the issue of dynamic languages having mutable types and you use TDD to make sure that your types become immutable20:41
grembleI usually make a main.cpp file that has the "expected results" of my code and just test it against my code20:41
superflykulelu88: at our company we also do pair programming (which some folks like to call extreme programming), which helps to catch bugs and increase code quality20:42
superflykulelu88: not really. you can still mess things up in a statically typed language20:42
superflythough I do understand that dynamically typed languages have the potential of having type-related bugs20:43
kulelu88Would that be useful though? I'd like to dabble in writing a library that can test types in dynamic languages20:43
grembleIt *should* get caught by the compiler though20:43
kulelu88would be hard but fun20:43
gremblekulelu88: if I recall correctly, that is a phD thesis20:44
superflykulelu88: it's not too hard. just write a test to check the return value type20:44
kulelu88how so? gremble . Unless they are generalizing it at some higher-order mathematical level, which is where I "fekk off" back into the basement 20:44
grembleSec, I might be lying20:45
kulelu88I really like this: http://mypy-lang.org/20:45
grembleI fear I was incorrect.20:46
grembleCan't find the article I was reading20:46
kulelu88It must be a ruby-gem already20:46
gremblesuperfly, you guys use python, correct?20:47
superflygremble: and C++, but the machine learning would be in Python20:47
superflykulelu88: ^^ that's a simple test, it would catch incorrect errors20:47
superfly*incorrect types20:48
kulelu88this article: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1519 ? gremble 20:48
CryterionNEVER EVER, connect a pc with win7 start on it to your network, grrrr20:50
grembleHmm It may have been about type inference, but it wasn't a lambda-the-ultimate one20:50
gremblewhy Cryterion?20:50
MaNIhaha, thats nothing, try with win xp :/20:50
gremblewindows powershell is so slow20:51
Cryteriongremble, my entire network kept crashing, and only while it was trying to get inet access20:51
kulelu88Thinking about it, even with some type-checking, what benefits will it have?20:51
superflykulelu88: you talking about TDD, or type-checking variables?20:54
kulelu88superfly: type-checking. apparently, that is how pypy works?20:55
superflyI'm not really familiar with how PyPy works20:56
kulelu88I'm discussing it in #python20:56
superflyI don't think PyPy is statically typed though?20:56
kulelu88it's a JIT IIRC20:57
grembleStealing machine learning textbooks from the internet would be so much quicker if mweb wasn't so slow20:58
kulelu88eeuuww mweb20:58
grembleI'm poor. It's the internet that poor people can have20:59
grembleI'm just stoked that it isn't dail-up20:59
grembleYou have to pay R30 extra to get dail-up20:59
kulelu88I had dial-up P2P speeds last night. fekking ISP with their new shaping policy, even after 12am21:00
grembleGuys, guys. I don't know if you know; but it is cold. Like really21:00
superflyearlier I could see my breathe... in my bedroom.21:01
grembleWhat you need is a heater21:01
kulelu88taking a dump right now would be absolute joy21:02
grembleIt's too cold to take your pants off though21:02
kulelu88what if you were with the most attractive woman you'd ever and will ever lay your eyes on?21:04
superflyI already am. She's my wife.21:04
grembleget with her under a blanket. Not pull my pants off to sit on a cold porcelain seat21:04
kulelu88superfly: based on how a dynamic language works, can it really do type inference if the code is interpreted line by line or would some checking basically be building a compiler on top of python?21:05
superflykulelu88: Python is dynamically typed, not PHP or JavaScript which change depending on how you're using it, the time of day, and the weather in Timbuktoo right now.21:09
superflykulelu88: if you set a variable to be a string, and then you use it like and int, Python is going to throw a TypeError21:10
superflygranted, at runtime, not compile time, but if you're using TDD, you'll pick that up WAY before production21:10
kulelu88that's true as well. 21:12
kulelu88superfly: I hope you guys become a sponsor for PyCon. I think PyConZA 2015 may be epic21:14
superflyI've been asked if I don't want to speak at PyCon. Not really sure I want to.21:15
superflyAnd I would prefer PyCon being in Cape Town21:15
grembleWhy don't you want to talk at pycon?21:16
superflyI'm not a public speaker21:17
kulelu88codes in the debian dungeons with poettering21:17
grembleI thought about making a numpy presentation at one of the SFD's because I vehemently dislike matlab, so I want everyone to use numpy/scipy21:17
superflygremble: do that, please do21:18
kulelu88PyCon is that place gremble . R300 ticket for you as a student21:18
grembleYour ML thing gave me an idea. Going to play around and see if I can make something interesting21:19
* superfly doesn't even know what he would talk about21:19
superflygremble: ML?21:19
gremblekulelu88: at pycon everyone already knows about python, secondly I don't have R300 to spend on shit :P21:19
grembleMachine Learning21:19
superflyoh right21:20
superflyhave fun!21:20
superflyby the way guys, don't forget to save up for tickets to DebConf in Cape Town next year.21:20
kulelu88superfly: using your suggested way to loop through my nested dict, I get this error: AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'iteritems'21:21
grembleAre these software conferences interesting?21:21
grembleI've only been to an information science conference and that was pretty bland21:21
superflykulelu88: oh, it's a list inside a dictionary?21:21
superflykulelu88: then just for value in dict['user']21:22
kulelu88gremble: according to what I see on the webz, the chilling together and smalltalk is more interesting than the conference-talks21:22
superflydebconf also has a debcamp the week before, which is a hackathon type thing21:23
kulelu88superfly: how would I access the key then? My nested dict is basically a JSON file that has the user info stored one level lower21:23
kulelu88let me paste you my JSON21:23
superflykulelu88: you've got a dict in a list in a dict21:23
superflyfor user in dict['users']:21:24
superfly    print 'Name:', user['name']21:24
superflyAssuming: dict['users'][0]['name']21:25
kulelu88superfly: https://pastee.org/3p5mk21:26
kulelu88I want to loop through each name21:26
kulelu88and check it's value21:27
superflyright, so as I said, a dict within a list within a dict21:27
superflythen just loop through the list and check the value of the dict21:28
kulelu88fekk, JSON converts terribly into Python21:28
superflyactually, it converts the same21:28
gremblejson is not terribly goodlooking itself :P21:29
grembleIt's not really supposed to be21:30
kulelu88whoa, shit it worked, and I understood how as well21:31
kulelu88a dict within a list within a dict21:31
kulelu88so while using "value" looping through the dict, I took that same "value" as "value"[item] :/21:32
kulelu88why do you say u'users' ?21:37
gremblewith your lips?21:37
kulelu88why not how21:38
kulelu88haskell programmers :/21:38
grembleWhy did I read how?21:38
grembleI am retarded21:38
superflykulelu88: because there's a "users" in the data you gave me21:39
kulelu88aah ok21:39
grembleThis textbook uses wordpad as an editor21:39
grembleI'm snickering21:39
superflygremble: I'd probably be throwing. That text book. Out the window.21:40
grembleJust because they're shit with using tools doesn't mean they're shit with their mathematics21:40
superflyIf they're mathematicians, OK, but if they were developers...21:41
kulelu88at least they're not asking you to setup a netbeans environment 21:42
kulelu88hashtag minimalists!21:42
grembleThis is most certainly not written by developers21:42
superflyI've recently started being quite productive in VIM21:43
superflyI don't really use PyCharm anymore.21:43
grembledude. I discovered emacs21:43
superflygremble: they say there's a text editor somewhere in there. I still have my doubts.21:43
grembleThere is? It is an amazing lisp interpreter though21:44
kulelu88I tried light-table, then realized that it was a node-webkit application and was laggy compared to Sublime, so I'm waiting for limetext to become a thing21:44
superflykulelu88: have you tried Atom?21:44
kulelu88same problem as light table, they use electron, another javascript beauty21:44
kulelu88is it fast though? 21:44
kulelu88I *could* try it21:44
superflyIt was pretty responsive the last time I used it21:44
kulelu88*makes note to try it*21:45
superflyThere's also VSCode21:45
superflyBut I don't think that's open source21:45
grembleit is also nodejs though (atom)21:45
superflygremble: yes, I know.21:45
superflymy personal opinion is that NodeJS is being used for WAY too much.21:45
kulelu88or I could try writing 1 using Vala D;21:46
superfly(I'm not entirely sure why I would want JS on my server)21:46
kulelu88the MEAN stack21:46
superflyMongoDB, EmberJS, AngularJS and NodeJS?21:48
kulelu88there's a good reason for it though, besides Node being hard to understand as an async thing21:48
kulelu88MongoDB, ExpressJS, AngularJS and NodeJS21:48
grembleDatabase people seem to dislike mongo :P21:48
kulelu88because Node isn't a framework but express is :D21:48
superflyI want to cry every time I use Async in Angular.21:48
kulelu88Angular takes a while to learn, but I liked it over Ember21:49
kulelu88Nomanini sounds like a place where there's no "we need some Java here at least" :D21:50
superflyIf you say "Java" in the offices, you'll hear the sound of 6 groans21:52
grembleonly 6?21:52
kulelu88Do you know what Vala is? superfly 21:52
superflythere's only 6 developers21:53
superflykulelu88: Sorta, I had a brief look at it a while back21:53
kulelu88gremble and I are number 8 and 12 at nomanini21:53
kulelu88Have you seen this: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Genie . Cool ehh21:53
superflyGTK. ugh.21:57
superflyThere's also Cython, for writing Python that compiles to C21:57
kulelu88is that the same though? Cython doesn't sound fun21:58
gremblePython from python.org is reference python implemented in C. So that also compiles to C21:58
superflyWell, Cython takes Python, converts it to C, compiles it, and makes it a C-exension for Python21:59
superflyso you can write your code in Python (or even in C-like Python for better optimisation), but have the speed of C21:59
grembleThat is quite neat22:00
superflyI've never used it, never really needed to22:00
grembleI might be better off just writing the C insted22:01
kulelu88that's my gripe too gremble . Thus, my quest for Python at the low level22:04
kulelu88did you guys write your own compiler for the embedded device? superfly 22:04
superflykulelu88: no. we use GCC22:04
grembleThis ipython notebook even has the unfortunate way of making plots a new window like matlab. Probably to let engineers feel at home22:09
grembleLuckily there are no semi-colon's though22:09
superflyTime for me to hit the hay folks. Night!22:10
grembleCheers superfly 22:10
gremblekulelu88: Why are you learning python? :o22:17
kulelu88ehh, I think I am at the implementation level now . no more learning for loops for me :/ 22:18
kulelu88gremble: is jy n bietjie dronk?22:18
grembleI don't believe so, why? I do remeber that you are a programmer or do some sort of programming, just curious as to why something new22:19
kulelu88I'm confused by the "why something new" part. Is that a reference to "why do you want a low level python?" ??22:23
grembleNo python. I don't recall you being a python dev? (But it is possible that I have had a concussion in my sleep and am suddenly retarded, because I've been mentally slow the entire day)22:24
kulelu88Python is my go-to language. 22:27
kulelu88I was building a bot in it22:27
gremblemy bad22:27
kulelu88TIL I also just found out what TIL is22:28
grembleThis machine learning stuff is fun22:29
kulelu88I think I'm going to try installing Vala and Genie via docker in a little while22:29
grembleRight now I am just doing mathematical modelling in python22:29
grembleBut it is pretty cool :o22:29
kulelu88you can earn about $80 per hour (with the right company) doing data science work22:31
grembleIf I can do it remotely that would be amazing22:31
kulelu88you need a bit of experience though. granted, YOU probably don't, but someone will say you do22:32
grembleI probably do anyway22:32
grembleBut the internet is full of data22:32
grembleAnd I am full of science22:32
grembleBesides, I am so I can find a researcher at UP that could also do with an RE that can do some data manipulation22:33
grembleRA* Research assistant22:34
kulelu88I know a guy22:34
grembleHaha As soon as I can model the shit out of everything, ima hit you up22:35
kulelu88I need to try this out also. Data science is fun. I'd like to make economic models22:37
kulelu88My first project would be "The nerd hot babe detector"22:39
kulelu88*"The (made for nerds) hot babe detector"22:39
grembleA corollary is the crazy girl detector22:40
kulelu88or "based on how hot she is, here is the probability of her being vain"22:41
grembleThat sounds more like data science22:42
grembleAlthough you would have to find an objective definition of "hotness"22:42
kulelu88lucky there's no opposite genders lurking here, otherwise they'd tweet about us being bros here :D22:42
kulelu88I think based on weight, height, hair colour, we could classify woman who *may* be attractive22:43
kulelu88oh and bust22:43
grembleWell, that should be a clear indication that it is a bad idea 22:43
grembleIt is quite late already23:15
grembleI'm going to bounce23:23

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