[05:27] <magespawn> good morning
[05:49] <Kilos> morning all
[05:51] <magespawn> hi Kilos 
[05:51] <Kilos> hi my magespawn 
[10:58] <stickyboy> Anyone got Apple Music?
[13:50] <gremble> Good afternoon
[15:10] <Kilos> hi gremble and others
[15:44] <stickyboy> gremble: Sup
[16:36] <Kios> ai1
[16:36] <Kios> ai!as well
[16:52] <Kilos-> hmm...
[16:52] <Kilos-> inetpro, is your away thing broken?
[16:54] <Kilos-> ai!
[16:54] <Kilos->  cloaks missing
[16:58] <Kilos> ohi superfly 
[17:01] <superfly> The shed is being loaded
[17:04]  * superfly wonders if Kilos is thinking 
[17:05] <Kilos> lol
[17:05] <Kilos> thinking how i used to setup hexchat ya
[17:05] <superfly> I never got a comment about my comment, so I was wondering if you were confused 
[17:06] <Kilos> having a system work for a year lets you forget what you used to do every now and again
[17:06] <Kilos> lol
[17:08] <Kilos> i have 14.04 unity flavour running on T410 alongside win 7 and 14.04 kde
[17:09] <Kilos> nice and fast little lappy
[17:09] <Kilos> better with usb mouse though
[17:57] <Kilos> i need some advice please, they say skype to skype calls are free
[17:57] <Kilos> what does it do to your 3g data bundle
[17:58] <Kilos> and if it uses your data is that on incoming as well as outgoing calls
[17:58] <gremble> Yes
[17:58] <gremble> On both
[17:58] <gremble> Since they require data transfer
[17:59] <gremble> So anything that sends/receives packets costs money/data
[17:59] <Kilos> so all these other things like viber and fring are the same
[17:59] <gremble> Yup
[17:59] <Kilos> so where does the free bit come in
[17:59] <gremble> Nothing is "free". You may not pay for the service, but you still have to pay your ISP for their service
[18:00] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:00] <Kilos> but
[18:00] <Kilos>  next 
[18:00] <gremble> It is like the mechanic doesn't charge you for fixing your car, but you still have to pay for the petrol to drive there
[18:00] <Kilos> it will be cheaper than using airtime right
[18:00] <gremble> That I don't know. I think so
[18:00] <Kilos> the voip thing
[18:01] <Squirm> Kilos: I looked at it... Let me find the site
[18:01] <Kilos> ty Squirm 
[18:01] <gremble> Vodafone did try and make VoIP something like R15/MB, but I don't know whether they succeeded
[18:01] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:01] <Squirm> 40Mb-50Mb per hour
[18:01] <Kilos> R15 a meg
[18:01] <Kilos> oh thats not too bad
[18:02] <Squirm> so * that by per Mb cost
[18:02] <Kilos> oi
[18:02] <Squirm> But if you have a good connection, Skype ups the quality
[18:02] <Squirm> so it's an estimate
[18:02] <Squirm> Kilos: How much do you pay for data?
[18:02] <Kilos> R199 for 3g
[18:03] <Squirm> R0.06 per Mb
[18:03] <Kilos> i foned the other day and used R50 in less than an hour
[18:03] <Squirm> Maaz: 0.06*60
[18:03] <Maaz> Squirm: 3.6
[18:03] <Squirm> No way
[18:04] <Squirm> R3.6 per hour? LIES
[18:04] <Kilos> i foned aus
[18:04] <Squirm> My calcualtion must be off
[18:04] <Kilos> oh you not talking to me
[18:04] <Kilos> hehe
[18:04] <Squirm> How much did the call cost?
[18:05] <Kilos> R51
[18:05] <Kilos> i dont know where to see the time
[18:05] <Squirm> Open Skype
[18:06] <Squirm> is there a history tab?
[18:06] <Squirm> I have a history tab on osx
[18:06] <Kilos> nono i used fone
[18:06] <Squirm> Or, open the chat window, sometimes it shows you in the chat
[18:06] <Squirm> Oh
[18:06] <Squirm> Which phone?
[18:06] <Kilos> cell and airtime
[18:06] <Kilos> old nokia
[18:06] <Squirm> Hit the green call button once
[18:07] <Squirm> Should bring up the call log?
[18:07] <Kilos> no brought up a code from telegram
[18:08] <Kilos> cloeared that then it said no calls when i hit green button again
[18:08] <Kilos> says no numbers
[18:08] <Kilos> ai!
[18:09] <Kilos> this thing dont record any of that 
[18:09] <Kilos> must be turned off or something
[18:10] <Kilos> last call
[18:10] <Kilos> 28 mins 14 secs
[18:11] <Kilos> 51/28
[18:11] <Kilos> ai!
[18:11] <Kilos> Maaz  51/28
[18:11] <Maaz> Kilos: 1.82142857143
[18:12] <Kilos> Maaz  28/51
[18:12] <Maaz> Kilos: 0.549019607843
[18:12] <Kilos> ai!
[18:25] <Cryterion> Evening Everyone
[18:28] <Squirm> Kilos: looks like Skype might be better
[18:28] <Squirm> Skype to Skype though
[18:28] <Squirm> Skype to landline will cost the same as a local landline call+data charge
[18:29] <Squirm> R2pm though
[18:30] <Cryterion> anyone know the new telkom huawei routers?
[18:31] <gremble> Hey Cryterion 
[18:31] <Cryterion> Hiya gremble
[18:31] <gremble> We had one. I don't know if it was a "new" one, but fairly nice none the less
[18:31] <gremble> Only issue I had was connecting to it with netctl. But I suspect that is because netctl is shitty
[18:32] <Cryterion> Prefer their old one, you have decent port forwarding options, on this new one you can only do it via NAT, which isn't working
[18:33] <Kilos> ty Squirm 
[18:34] <Cryterion> if I put my inet ip into address, I get the gateway login screen, not the forward to web server, grrrr
[18:34] <Cryterion> Hiya Squirm and Kilos
[18:35] <Kilos> hi Cryterion 
[18:38] <Squirm> Hey Cryterion
[18:38] <Squirm> I don't know you do I?
[18:38] <Squirm> Well, do you recognise my nick?
[18:39] <Cryterion> Yes, you been here awhile, as I have, we probably haven't formally met yet
[18:40] <Squirm> Hmmm.. No.. I knew that nick from another server a few years back
[18:41] <Cryterion> Few years could be many years for me, been along time since I've used irc everyday since the late 90's until a few months ago again
[18:41] <Squirm> No...
[18:41] <Squirm> But now I see your real name is different
[18:41] <Squirm> Never mind
[18:43] <Squirm> I knew a Cryterion fron Centurion is about 2007ish
[18:44] <Squirm> Interested in where the nickname came from then?
[18:44] <Cryterion> hmmm, wasn't me then
[18:45] <Squirm> Nope
[18:46] <Cryterion> I started using this nick about 25 years ago as a screen name, have since, and was prob mainly cause it was just different
[18:47] <Cryterion> used cryterion instead of criterion
[19:03] <inetpro> good evening
[19:04] <gremble> emacs is amazing *-*
[19:04] <gremble> Hey inetpro 
[19:04] <Kilos> hi inetpro 
[19:04] <inetpro> vim ftw!
[19:09] <inetpro> http://mrozekma.com/editor-learning-curve.png
[19:09] <Squirm> gremble: It's hard to learn :/
[19:10] <Squirm> As that link suggests, actually
[19:11] <inetpro> Squirm: maybe a bit hard to begin with but very quick to learn
[19:11] <Squirm> I've stuck with Atom for now
[19:11] <Squirm> Editing bash, python and YAML files
[19:12] <Squirm> so I should be ok
[19:12]  * inetpro tried emacs several times
[19:13] <Squirm> A few of our devs use it
[19:13]  * Cryterion doesn't see nano in that graph :(
[19:13] <inetpro> I just keep going back to vim/vi because it's the one thing you'll find on just about every *nix environment
[19:14] <MaNI> nano!
[19:16] <gremble> MaNI: Nano and emacs have similar commands
[19:16] <gremble> Also, I am learning lisp as well. This makes emacs less terrible :P
[19:16] <Squirm> inetpro: I use vim when I edit on a remote server. But we use ansible and config management, so it's often just wit my editor on my local machine
[19:17] <Squirm> so between vim and atom, I do everything
[19:17] <gremble> I like vim a lot, but so far I am having more fun and being more productive in emacs. I just need to get the movement keys down. They're still weird. I am thinking about trying evil
[19:17]  * inetpro should learn to do ansible
[19:17] <Squirm> Yeah
[19:18] <Squirm> It's where the YAML comes in
[19:20] <Cryterion> yeah MaNI, I use nano for basics
[19:21] <MaNI> I don't trust any program where ctrl+c doesn't exit
[19:21] <Kilos> lol
[19:21] <MaNI> or ctrl+x
[19:21] <MaNI> :p
[19:21] <Kilos> i like nano
[19:22] <Kilos> all i can use
[19:24] <inetpro> MaNI: uh, you also one of those who press the reset button to exit vim?
[19:24] <Kilos> hehe
[19:25] <MaNI> haha, nah I know how to use vim
[19:25] <MaNI> I just find it annoying when people redefine such fundamental basic operating rules
[19:25] <MaNI> certain things should be obeyed :p
[19:27]  * inetpro prefers to make double sure about changes in any file
[19:28] <inetpro> too easy to make mistakes with a basic editor like nano without noticing it
[19:30] <gremble> If you want a random string you have a noob try and exit ed
[19:30] <inetpro> config management is definitely the better way to do it
[19:31] <inetpro> haha, I used to enjoy ed and ex at some point
[19:35] <Squirm> Never heard of it
[19:35] <Squirm> Kilos: it took a while. But vim is better than nano
[19:35] <Kilos> for those that can learn it yeah
[19:36] <Kilos> for the few things i need to chnge nano works great
[19:36] <Squirm> Kilos: 
[19:36] <Squirm> http://hdwallpapers.cat/wallpaper/linux_cheat_sheet_wallpaper_nmap_vim_ssh_hd-wallpaper-619059.jpg
[19:36] <Kilos> change
[19:36] <Squirm> check the vim section
[19:37] <Cryterion> ctrl+x doesn't work on vim ctrl+\ does, but nano is easy
[19:37] <Squirm> The only thing that it doesn't mention, is use esc to change modes
[19:37] <Squirm> Kilos: Also, sometimes helps setting an image like that as your wallpaper :)
[19:38] <Kilos> lol
[19:38] <Squirm> Seriously
[19:38] <Kilos> no man i dont need to learn more stuffs
[19:38] <Kilos> yes it will help having it as a wall paper i agree
[19:39] <Kilos> if i fiddled in files lots i would try it 
[19:39] <Cryterion> def gonna put it up as well
[19:39] <inetpro> sudo apt-get install vim-runtime && vimtutor
[19:39] <Kilos> i only ever change 2 files
[19:39] <Squirm> Kilos: vimtutor!
[19:39] <Squirm> vimtutor is great!
[19:39] <Kilos> and one for sound
[19:39] <Squirm> Cryterion: when you're learning, it's fantastic
[19:39]  * Cryterion goes to look
[19:39] <Kilos> nono i tried vim tutor
[19:39] <Squirm> Even just to recall
[19:40] <Cryterion> Yeah, learnt today you can't rename files
[19:40] <Squirm> tbh - I've never used it :D
[19:40] <Cryterion> but you move them to the new filename
[19:40] <Squirm> Well. Used commands once or twice, but never set it as my bg
[19:40] <Squirm> Cryterion: indeed
[19:40] <Squirm> Sam thing
[19:40] <gremble> Technically that is what a move is on linux
[19:41] <gremble> You don't change the location of the file
[19:41] <Cryterion> yip, just the terminology is different
[19:41] <gremble> Just its name in the directory structure
[19:41] <Squirm> Yep
[19:41] <Squirm> Cryterion: then have a look at the difference between a symlink and a hardlink
[19:42] <gremble> Tea and toast with syrup. Now I am ready for the day
[19:42] <Squirm> Nice
[19:42] <Kilos> syruo is lekker
[19:42] <Squirm> Wait... gremble... The day?
[19:42] <Kilos> tate and lyles is the best
[19:42] <Kilos> but expensive
[19:42] <gremble> I don't have to get up at 5 tomorrow. That means I still have a couple of hours of work that I get to do
[19:44] <Squirm> Cryterion: I could probably list my few most used commands
[19:44] <Squirm> Wel.. my favourite
[19:44] <gremble> ls
[19:44] <gremble> :P
[19:44] <Squirm> less +F
[19:44] <Squirm> ssh -L
[19:44] <Squirm> dig
[19:44] <Squirm> ps
[19:44] <Squirm> killall
[19:45] <Squirm> well, ps aux
[19:45] <Squirm> and killall processID
[19:45] <Squirm> no wait, killall processBIN
[19:45] <Squirm> :P
[19:45] <Squirm> and du -h and df -h
[19:45] <gremble> ps aux is like htop for masochistic people
[19:45] <Squirm> gremble: I always use it with grep though
[19:46] <Squirm> and I use htop and top to check the box
[19:46] <Squirm> oh and tar zxf and tar zcf
[19:46] <gremble> One day I will learn grep xD
[19:46] <Squirm> zxf to extract and zcf to create
[19:47] <Squirm> gremble: the nice thing, is you can grep for words
[19:47] <gremble> Perhaps when we are doing Regular expressions in discrete structures
[19:47] <Squirm> ps aux | grep apache
[19:47] <Squirm> ps aux | grep nginx
[19:47] <Squirm> ps aux | grep java
[19:47] <Squirm> etc
[19:47] <gremble> Yup. Just tried that with emacs
[19:49] <Squirm> With that cheat sheet I pasted. The only commands I don't use, are Netcat and Nmap(used some of Nmap)
[19:49] <Squirm> Otherwise, I use the others almost weekly
[19:50] <Kilos> night all sleep tight
[19:50] <inetpro> good night oom Kilos
[19:50] <superfly> Squirm: when you're extracting with tar you don't need to specify the type. It will automatically detect from the file name 
[19:51] <Squirm> superfly: that's interesting
[19:51] <Squirm> Thanks
[19:51]  * superfly is also old-school and still uses -xf
[19:52] <Squirm> :P
[19:52] <Squirm> I'd probably still carry on doing it
[19:52] <Squirm> But it's good to know
[19:52] <Squirm> every now and again I use gunzip
[19:52] <Squirm> But it's not often
[19:52] <inetpro> Squirm: with egrep you can grep for multiple patterns at once 
[19:52] <inetpro> eg: ps aux | egrep "apache|nginx|java"
[19:53] <superfly> And I recently started using vim properly. Use the right plugins and vim is AMAZING
[19:53] <Squirm> superfly: vim has plugins?
[19:53] <Squirm> I;ve never looked
[19:53] <Squirm> I've*
[19:53] <superfly> Yebo
[19:53] <gremble> That is what is exciting about NeoVim
[19:53] <gremble> Better plugin system
[19:53] <superfly> Look up oh-my-vim
[19:53] <gremble> Even async
[19:53] <Squirm> superfly: will do
[19:53] <superfly> And while you're at it, install zsh and oh-my-zsh
[19:54] <gremble> ^
[19:54] <Squirm> superfly: I have...
[19:54] <gremble> I second that :P
[19:54] <Squirm> zsh something
[19:54] <superfly> And stop using bash 
[19:54] <Squirm> zprezto
[19:54] <Squirm> Meant to be a little quicker
[19:54] <superfly> Squirm: not talking directly to you, more just to the channel on general 
[19:54] <superfly> *im
[19:54] <Squirm> :P
[19:54] <Squirm> kk
[19:54] <superfly> *in
[19:55] <Squirm> But yes, zsh is good
[19:56] <Squirm> Not sure who uses a Mac here, but I've been using a iTerm for a while. But then I found TotalTerminal :D There is a linux version nuvolari recommended to me
[19:56] <superfly> The oh-my-vim install script doesn't work correctly at the moment, thanks to the version of virtualenv it downloads, but come ask me and I'll get you up and running 
[19:56] <Squirm> But alas, osx
[19:57] <gremble> Can't you get unix stuff running on osx through brew, or does it have to be prebuilt and specially packaged?
[19:57] <gremble> (I have no idea how those things work)
[19:58] <Squirm> gremble: It depends. Not everything is on brew
[19:58] <gremble> Ah
[19:58] <superfly> gremble: there's homebrew and MacPorts because of that. 
[19:58] <Squirm> More of the common sourceforge packages are
[19:58] <Squirm> Not everything though :
[19:58] <Squirm> :/
[19:58] <Squirm> But it's pretty good
[19:59] <Squirm> and as simple as apt-get
[19:59] <superfly> Ya
[19:59] <gremble> Or pacman -S
[19:59] <Squirm> Haven't had to use MacPorts uet
[19:59] <gremble> :P
[19:59] <Squirm> yet*
[19:59] <Squirm> As simple as a linux package manager*
[19:59] <gremble> xD
[19:59] <superfly> I've used MacPorts, and it's slightly more like Portage
[20:00] <MaNI> my experience
[20:00] <Squirm> gremble: pick a linux application you'd like on brew?(not sure if you have a mac)
[20:00] <MaNI> macports/brew etc. are okay but expect lots of things to not work or only half work
[20:00] <gremble> I don't have a mac
[20:00] <gremble> I have a really old compaq
[20:00] <gremble> :P
[20:00] <MaNI> its not well maintained like portage or any other proper linux distro
[20:00] <Squirm> gremble: then pick something?
[20:00] <superfly> For some of the stuff I needed to recompile it, so now everything I install using MacPorts is compiled 
[20:01] <gremble> Uhm. urxvt-256color
[20:01] <gremble> rxvt*
[20:01] <Squirm> lol
[20:01] <Squirm> Well that's not there :D
[20:01] <gremble> That is a shame
[20:02] <gremble> That is one of the best terminal emulators
[20:02] <gremble> :P
[20:02] <Squirm> gremble: Just found this: http://braumeister.org/
[20:03] <Squirm> But if it's there, it's easy to install
[20:04] <Squirm> Well. I should have been in bed a while ago, but it's been interesting
[20:04] <Squirm> Cheers all
[20:04]  * Squirm makes his hot water bottle
[20:04] <Squirm> CT is still coldish :/
[20:05] <Squirm> Even after the sun today
[20:05] <gremble> It is freezing in PTA
[20:05] <gremble> Cheers Squirm 
[20:05] <gremble> 9.8degC atm
[20:06] <MaNI> takes more than 2 days of sun to get rid of the damp ground
[20:06] <MaNI> hope these aren't the only 2 days of sun we have in the next few weeks, I may have missed my only chance to install my solar panels :/
[20:08] <Cryterion> MaNi sunny next 3 days in dbn
[20:09] <MaNI> mon/tue apparently still sunny here in CT
[20:09] <MaNI> but we will see
[20:10] <gremble> Man up and do it in the rain
[20:10] <gremble> :P
[20:10] <MaNI> don't know how long it will take the aluminium people to fix their mistake - they delived steel to me on friday instead of aluminium, dissapointing stuff :p
[20:10] <MaNI> heh I'm not scared of rain, but I'm scared of my roof even when its sunny its quite slippery 
[20:11] <gremble> You don't need your legs to use a computer, just make sure you land correctly
[20:11] <Cryterion> use rope, tie properly so you don't end up hanging yourself
[20:11] <MaNI> hehe
[20:11] <gremble> "This safery harnass is tied securely to my neck and testicles. Now I will be to scared to fall."
[20:11] <MaNI> knowing my luck I'll trip on the rope
[20:12] <gremble> Oh superfly, did you see the link that I posted for you? :P
[20:12] <MaNI> still can't believe they delivered the wrong metal
[20:13] <Cryterion> send it back rusted :)
[20:13] <MaNI> I keep trying to convince myself that I'm mistaken, and that aluminium which rusts red and attracts magnets does exist, but I just can't do it :p
[20:15] <Cryterion> I ordered MS once, then got told to collect it from a SS only supplier!, realised the f-up then and wouldn't collect
[20:16] <MaNI> I guess I should have noticed when they were offloading, but it was raining hard and lots of other chaos was going on 
[20:17] <gremble> Do they have to come pick it up again?
[20:17] <MaNI> yeah
[20:18] <MaNI> well they aren't open on weekends
[20:18] <MaNI> so fighting that out is tomorrow mornings fun
[20:19] <Cryterion> Did the quote say Alu?
[20:19] <MaNI> yes
[20:19] <Cryterion> Invoice?
[20:20] <MaNI> also, I think the delivery boys just loaded the wrong thing, they are a steel place so they're probably not used to obscure orders
[20:21] <Cryterion> so shouldn't be hard to argue
[20:21] <Cryterion> you just presenting the f-up
[20:21] <MaNI> yeah
[20:21] <MaNI> I imagine it should be okay, though never know for sure, people can be weird 
[20:22] <Cryterion> true
[20:23] <Cryterion> what steel co did you order from, I normally get alu through hulamin
[20:23] <MaNI> crawford steel (aspect)
[20:23] <Cryterion> hmm, don't know them
[20:24] <MaNI> couldn't find any helpful aluminium places in the area, I don't order metal often
[20:24] <superfly> gremble: I did, just haven't had the opportunity to download it 
[20:25] <superfly> gremble: thanks 
[20:25] <MaNI> halumin, will remember for next time :p
[20:25] <MaNI> *hulamin
[20:26] <Cryterion> ok, well hope all goes well tomorrow, try "kmg" next time, as they're the now the country wide Alu distributor
[20:26] <Cryterion> hulamin/stalcor are now kmg, kulungile metals group
[20:28] <superfly> MaNI: once it's all up and running, I might have to come and visit you. 
[20:29] <MaNI> hehe
[20:30] <MaNI> I'll create a guide book or something
[20:31] <Cryterion> anyway, goodnight everyone
[20:31] <MaNI> Cryterion, I don't suppose you've ever encountered something equivalent to http://www.we-llc.com/products/weeb-washer
[20:31] <MaNI> oh you're off, nevermind then :p
[20:33] <Cryterion> best bet kmg, or get them laser-cut and bent
[20:34] <Cryterion> it's part of the alu products, so kmg would be best off shelf
[20:35] <MaNI> hehe, okay thanks, goodnight ;)