[00:02] <matv1> jfred you're right that encryption of content is needed. I am not sure about apps subscribing directly to their services. You would have loads of daemons running to listen for their service all the time
[01:04] <jfred> doesn't have to be separate daemons, just one with multiple connections
[06:45] <dholbach> good morning
[08:14] <bzoltan_> mardy:  ping
[08:16] <mardy> bzoltan_: hi!
[08:17] <mardy> bzoltan_: zbenjamin is actually telling me about the applauncherd experiment :-)
[08:17] <bzoltan_> mardy:  good morning sir :) have you seen my response to the ML?
[08:17] <bzoltan_> mardy: here is the package https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ubuntu/staging
[08:18] <mardy> bzoltan_: mmm... no, I haven't see your reply yet
[08:19] <bzoltan_> mardy:  damn with the ML ... I have sent it and it is in my sent mails folder
[08:20] <mardy> bzoltan_: nope, I can't see it, not even from gmail
[08:23] <bzoltan_> mardy: I have sent again and to you too
[08:23] <bzoltan_> mardy:  the point is that great minds think alike :D We have banchmarks, LP project and testable packages too :)
[08:24] <mardy> bzoltan_: now I got the one you forwarded directly to me
[08:25] <mardy> bzoltan_: well, I wrote that message because I thought that no one was working on that
[08:25] <mardy> bzoltan_: but since you are, I guess I can let you continue the work; if I can help with something, let me know, I'd be glad to
[08:34] <beehock> hi
[08:34] <beehock> trying to port sony xperia l to ubuntu touch
[08:34] <beehock> got a black screen and no adbd
[08:35] <beehock> there is a note in the porting guide debugging area about adbd
[08:36] <beehock> Troubleshooting Cannot start ADB without graphics
[08:36] <beehock> "Copy it into the /usr/bin/adbd directory in the Ubuntu rootfs of the device being ported" the path does not make sense. anyone?
[08:38] <Guest34394> hello everybody I would like toknow how to install tes version of network indicator to test the hotspot wifi capacities on myriam aquaris E4.5. I didn't find anything clear about how to do ig
[08:38] <Guest34394> my*
[08:43] <Guest34394> Isolé anyone could help me with it?
[08:44] <justCarakas> Guest34394: it is somewhere in the mailing list
[08:46] <Guest34394> is there anywa
[08:48] <Guest34394> is there a way to have the history officier the mailing list?
[08:51] <justCarakas> Guest34394:  https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg14322.html
[09:03] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/should-you-be-buying-an-ubuntu-phone-right-now-487838.shtml
[09:07] <nhaines> lotuspsychje: Betteridges's law of headlines says "no".
[09:08] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Walk on Stilts Day! 😃
[09:10] <nhaines> JamesTait: is Tuesday "Happy Have-Your-Friends-Sign-Your-Cast Day"?
[09:11] <lotuspsychje> nhaines: lets make an exeption headline and say yes this time :p
[09:11] <lotuspsychje> nhaines: or will you use your n7 as phone :p
[09:11] <JamesTait> nhaines, I was thinking along similar lines. 😉
[09:13] <nhaines> lotuspsychje: Oh well, the N7 wouldn't be such a good phone... it's too big.  :D
[09:13] <nhaines> I need to figure out if my N5 is still dropping calls.
[09:13] <lotuspsychje> nhaines: those biggest iphone gold are very huge already (999 euro)
[09:14] <lotuspsychje> i know a guy who blended that beast, wearing it in his pockets lol
[09:16] <bzoltan_> mardy:  thank you. I think we will need you help :) more eyes and more fingers can help a lot.  Integrating this solution will do need some lobbying
[09:20] <mardy> bzoltan_: cool, I have good connections into the Italian mafia ;-)
[09:28] <bzoltan_> mardy: that is exactly I thought about :)
[09:50] <nhaines> ogra_: sorry your G+ comment went a little off the rails.  :/  I don't understand why people get so worked up.
[09:51] <nhaines> Err, I mean that the comments to your G+ post went off the rails.  Your comment was fine.  :)
[09:51] <ogra_> nhaines, yeah ... it is the first time i actually considered turning off the comments
[09:54] <nhaines> I'm all for a KDE Plasma phone.  I won't use one, so it doesn't affect me, so why would I care if others want to build it?  Best of luck to them!  :D  But I can't say the demo video impressed me very much.
[09:54] <nhaines> The announcement seemed somehow premature.
[09:54] <ogra_> like ours :P
[09:55] <nhaines> Quite possibly!  :P
[09:55] <ogra_> what bothers me is that there are surely some kde lovers among the ubuntu phone owners and even perhaps some that would have produced images for bq or meizu phones ... but if you dont even tell them, they wont know
[09:58] <nhaines> ogra_: yeah.  Well, maybe they'll improve their communication in the future.  :)
[09:59] <ogra_> we'll see ... after the press coverage it shoudl at least be known now :)
[10:01] <nhaines> Yeah.  :)
[10:13] <AbuDhar> hey.
[10:13] <AbuDhar> http://www.meizu.com/en/ubuntu/features.html anyone who owns this phone?
[10:14] <popey> AbuDhar: o/
[10:15] <AbuDhar> and do you like it? do the normal features work?
[10:16] <AbuDhar> like calling, texting etc?
[10:16] <nhaines> Yes, of course.
[10:18] <popey> I like it.
[10:18] <popey> and yes.
[10:28] <yak> hello !! how could I have the instruction to install test network indicator to create wifi hotspot ??
[10:29] <ogra_> yak, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg14322.html
[10:39] <yak> I tried to know how to install a silo, but the commandline citrain -h returned me : /usr/bin/citrain: 45: .! can't open /usr/share/bluetils/shell-adb-common.sh
[10:39] <yak> I precise I'm on the phone terminal
[10:40] <yak> must I use it with adb connection ??
[10:40] <ogra_> you use it on your PC
[10:40] <ogra_> yes, it uses the adb connection as a backend
[10:44] <yak> but I'm on a Windows computer, is there any other way than using a live usb ubuntu??
[10:45] <ogra_> you could read the source of the citrain script and manually do all the bits it does
[10:45] <ogra_> (or you could just wait til the feature lands in the actual images in the next 4 weeks)
[10:46] <zzarr> I have purchased a Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition :D
[10:46] <ogra_> yay
[10:47] <yak> ok so I've to use a ubuntu-desktop to do i, my question was if it was possible to do adb with windows , but I think it's not
[10:50] <ogra_> it surely is if you install some android SDK
[10:50] <ogra_> (the citrain tool wont run on windows though)
[10:52] <popey> zzarr: yay
[10:54]  * ogra_ hugs Saviq for filing bug 1478075
[10:54] <ogra_> err
[10:54] <ogra_> bug 1478506 i mean
[11:06] <Saviq> ogra_, hug mzanetti then, but the two are kind-of the same
[11:07] <Saviq> the overaching problem being "there's no holistic UX design for sound"
[11:09] <ogra_> Saviq, well, i'd be happy already if it remembered the setting for media :) opening any app that works in media context pushes it back to full volume
[11:10] <mzanetti> IMO there's lots we could/should fix without waiting for UX
[11:10] <mzanetti> in terms ouf sound
[11:11] <Saviq> ogra_, oh if that really happens that's an obvious bug, I was expecting that the switching between ringtone and app makes it seem like the volume was reset
[11:13] <mzanetti> Saviq, well, it's the same... every time you create a Audio {} or SoundEffect {} element, it pushes volume up to 100 again
[11:13] <mzanetti> funny thing is, after playing such a game and trying to lower the volume for the game
[11:13] <mzanetti> I end up with all sounds at 100% except the ringtone volume, which then makes me miss calls
[11:17] <Saviq> mzanetti, yeah, something weird's happening there, likely in part because the stream is initialized over and over again
[11:17] <Saviq> mzanetti, which shouldn't be a case with an app using SoundEffects, afaics
[11:17] <mzanetti> indeed, it shouldn't :) hence the bug report
[11:17] <Saviq> because the whole idea behind SE is that the audio pipe is open all the time
[11:17] <mzanetti> right
[11:18] <Saviq> and I think that was happening before
[11:18] <mzanetti> actually it seems that is not the problem... there's a noticeable difference between Audio {} and SoundEffect {}
[11:18] <mzanetti> also on ubuntu...
[11:18] <mzanetti> Audio takes like a second from play() to noise
[11:18] <mzanetti> SoundEffect is instant
[11:18] <mzanetti> so that seems ok
[11:20] <Saviq> mzanetti, likely only if your stream was already up
[11:21] <Saviq> mzanetti, if Pulse suspends, it will take a second or so to play any sound, which is why SE should open the stream straight away, to keep the pipe going
[11:21] <mzanetti> yeah... I think that works fine...
[11:21] <mzanetti> ah... now I see where the miscommunication happened
[11:22] <mzanetti> for ogra_ it seems to happen when switching apps (even if they don't create new SE/Audio elements)
[11:22] <mzanetti> hmm...
[11:22] <ogra_> yep
[13:07] <mzanetti> alf, hey, has this one been released to vivid or just to wily? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1291455
[13:08] <alf> mzanetti: Not released yet
[13:08] <mzanetti> hmm... says "Merged"
[13:08] <mzanetti> alf, anyhow, is there something to do for unity8 itself too or can I close it?
[13:10] <alf> mzanetti: Merged to trunk, but not released to the archive. We have different trunk and packaging branches.
[13:12] <alf> mzanetti: What I fixed is actually making the proximity sensor active when a notification comes, which is what the discussion is about, but it's different to the bug title.
[13:13] <alf> mzanetti: if we want what the title says, i.e., proximity sensor always on when greeter is visible regardless of why we are in greeter, then unity8 needs changes too.
[13:13] <mzanetti> ack
[13:13] <alf> mzanetti: note, however, that I actually implemented that  previously and found it very annoying
[13:14] <mzanetti> alf, dunno. all my previous phones have had that...
[13:14] <mzanetti> never found it annoying. when it was disabled in a prototype that caused me to pocket-send mails etc
[13:15] <mzanetti> IMO quite required
[13:18] <alf> mzanetti: example... you press the power button to turn the screen on, you are in greeter trying to enter your passcode, screen turns off while you are doing so because you pass your finger over proximity sensor
[13:18] <alf> mzanetti: anyway, that's the story so far, we can iterate further
[13:19] <mzanetti> ok
[13:23] <seb128> jgdx, kenvandine, hey, could one of you review https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/get-custom-version/+merge/264619 ? it should be an easy one...
[13:24] <seb128> jgdx, kenvandine, btw what's the status of autopilot bugfixes and ci?
[13:25] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[13:25] <kenvandine> sure, did you run the tests on the device yourself?
[13:25] <kenvandine> seb128, and the status is waiting for Elleo to figure out what's up with the keyboard issue
[13:25] <kenvandine> Elleo, any news? ^^
[13:26]  * kenvandine is excited to have successfully paired bluetooth keyboard and mouse and ended up in windowed mode
[13:26] <kenvandine> woot!
[13:26] <seb128> kenvandine, I did the testing when I submited it, but it sitting there for some weeks...
[13:26] <seb128> kenvandine, :-)
[13:26] <kenvandine> just wish we had a mouse pointer :)
[13:26] <seb128> that could be useful indeed
[13:27] <kenvandine> seb128, i wish we had passing CI :/
[13:27] <seb128> me too!
[13:27] <Elleo> kenvandine: yep, got a fix building now
[13:27] <seb128> \o/
[13:27] <kenvandine> seb128, we've narrowed that down to some issue changing layout
[13:27] <kenvandine> Elleo, woot!
[13:27] <Elleo> kenvandine: I still had a couple of system settings test failures when I ran the whole suite that seemed unrelated to the keyboard though (to do with checkboxes I think)
[13:27] <kenvandine> Elleo, i might have a fix for those
[13:28] <Elleo> kenvandine: ah, okay, cool
[13:28] <kenvandine> i have a branch that fixes some tearDown issues
[13:28] <kenvandine> we were spawning tons of dbus processes that didn't get cleaned up
[13:28] <kenvandine> after a full run of the tests we ended up with 94 dbus-daemon processes :/
[13:28] <Elleo> heh
[13:28] <kenvandine> Elleo, so i think some of those issues are just racey because of system load
[13:29] <Elleo> okay
[13:29] <kenvandine> i have a dbus_gone_wild branch :)
[13:29] <Elleo> heh
[13:30] <kenvandine> debugging these CI issues really opened a can of worms... i've fixed a bunch of bugs in our autopilot tests now
[13:30] <kenvandine> seb128, i'll run the tests for your branch with Elleo's keyboard fix as soon as it's ready
[13:31] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[13:35] <kenvandine> Elleo, can you give me a shout when you have a branch proposed and i can grab the debs to try out?
[13:36] <kenvandine> mandel, how's silo 17 looking on vivid?
[13:36] <Elleo> kenvandine: yeah, I have it building in silo 2 alongside the shift latch fix, so that'll probably be the best place to test it from as it'll have fixes for everything then
[13:36] <kenvandine> Elleo, excellent!
[13:36] <kenvandine> thx
[13:36] <Elleo> no problem :)
[13:37] <seb128> dpm, hey, I've another issue with upstream vs distro translations for touch to bounce to you if have a minute to discuss that
[13:37] <Elleo> kenvandine: would you mind giving those branches a quick test/review since bill isn't around this week?
[13:37] <kenvandine> Elleo, happy to
[13:37] <Elleo> kenvandine: great, thanks
[13:40] <dpm> seb128, about to enter some calls. Feel free to start, and I'll read the scrollback
[13:41] <seb128> dpm, basically for e.g u-s-s, we enabled distro translation, but now it means that the upstream project has a staled outdated template, which confuses translators... is there any way to turn off translations for the project/redirect translators to $current_distro?
[13:43] <AbuDhar> installing the SDK.
[13:43] <mandel> kenvandine, I did the rebuild, we had to change the silo due to the sync and went for lunch
[13:44] <mandel> kenvandine, going to test now hoping to approve it
[13:45] <Laney> don't translations get synced back to trunk?
[13:46] <kenvandine> mandel, cool, thx
[13:46] <Laney> or not for the template?
[13:46] <dobey> sigh
[13:47]  * ogra_ sees dobey's line and looks for studio_
[13:48] <dobey> oh, so the sonum did get bumped in this branch
[13:49] <dobey> ogra_: sigh is for the massive mess of gigantic migrations going on in wily versus getting actual features/fixes landed
[13:49] <ogra_> well, its wily
[13:49] <ogra_> werewolves only work on full moon at night
[13:50] <mandel> kenvandine, no worries, I have been trying to land this FOREVER hehe
[13:50] <dobey> yes, but new python, gcc, and qt all at the same time == much pain
[13:50] <mandel> kenvandine, is a personal thing now
[13:50] <mandel> kenvandine, do we know anything about the installation service?
[13:50] <dobey> mandel: there is no installation service
[13:50]  * kenvandine wants
[13:50] <mandel> dobey, but there were talks, or am I making it up?
[13:50] <seb128> kenvandine, do you know about the call forwarding backend side? or is that one for jgdx?
[13:53] <dobey> mandel: we talked about it yes
[13:53] <mandel> ack
[13:53] <kenvandine> seb128, jgdx knows the most about that
[13:53] <kenvandine> seb128, and he's out on holiday
[13:54] <dobey> mandel: there /is/ a shell script used/provided by the store scope to install things, and updates /should/ use that same script to do the updates installs; but i don't know if that has been done or not
[13:54] <seb128> kenvandine, k, no hurry, I just tried to play with it, when I enable it and set a number it just auto turn off without displaying an error
[13:55] <mandel> dobey, ack
[13:55] <kenvandine> seb128, grrr...
[13:56] <seb128> kenvandine, does it work for you?
[13:56] <kenvandine> it did last week :)
[13:56] <seb128> well maybe it's my SIMs or something
[13:56] <kenvandine> he just fixed a bunch of stuff in that a couple weeks ago
[13:56] <kenvandine> well, i think it can be a little flaky depending on carrier
[13:56] <dobey> mandel: and now we're in this stated between having/maintaining clicks, and switching to snaps, so unlikely we'll get such a service for clicks
[13:57] <kenvandine> in testing it a few weeks ago i did run into some cases where it didn't work, and managed to reproduce it with the ofono test scripts
[13:57] <kenvandine> there's an ofono bug for it
[13:57] <seb128> kenvandine, it should at least give errors in the ui
[13:57] <kenvandine> but last week i actually used it and it worked :)
[13:57] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, syslog has
[14:00] <seb128> ofonod[1767]: ril_call_barring_query_cb: query failed, err: GENERIC_FAILURE
[14:00] <seb128> which I guess is an issue
[14:00] <kenvandine> seb128, bug 1455574
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[14:00] <kenvandine> looks like he was waiting for more feedback from me :)
[14:01] <seb128> yeah
[14:01] <seb128> doit! :-)à
[14:01] <mardy> jdstrand: hi! It's not super urgent, but when you have time please let me know your opinion on bug 1478514
[14:01]  * kenvandine adds a todo :)
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, is your "call forwarding" listing the different sections with checkboxes?
[14:03] <seb128> I only have one item here to enter a number
[14:03] <kenvandine> seb128, yes
[14:03] <seb128> weird :-/
[14:03] <kenvandine> maybe your sim doesn't support them all
[14:03] <kenvandine> not sure if we have the logic in there to be that smart, but perhaps :)
[14:03] <seb128> kenvandine, the list modem script list numbers from the sim for the different categories
[14:04] <kenvandine> seb128, if you check the call forwarding for every call i think it hides the rest
[14:04] <kenvandine> so if that's set, you don't see the rest
[14:04] <kenvandine> i think
[14:06] <seb128> kenvandine, the script outputs
[14:06] <seb128> VoiceBusy call forwarding rule is: +31684000130
[14:06] <seb128> VoiceUnconditional call forwarding rule disabled
[14:06] <seb128> ForwardingFlagOnSim call forwarding rule is: 0
[14:07] <kenvandine> seb128, so i'd think it would show them all
[14:07] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, but it shows the switch as disable
[14:07] <kenvandine> ugh
[14:07] <seb128> and enabling it in shows only a "enter number" line
[14:07]  * ogra_ now finally knows in which IRC logs to look up seb128's landline number 
[14:07] <kenvandine> so somehow it state is seriously wrong :/
[14:08] <kenvandine> seb128, anything in the upstart log?
[14:08] <kenvandine> maybe a libqofono problem
[14:08] <seb128> ogra_, lol, that's a preset number in a prepaid sim :-)
[14:08] <ogra_> lol
[14:08] <seb128> kenvandine, nothing useful in the log
[14:08] <kenvandine> :/
[14:08] <kenvandine> working here
[14:08] <seb128> kenvandine, the "summary" label on the phone panel is "some calls"
[14:08] <seb128> so the code sees it's set for some numbers
[14:09] <seb128> kenvandine, anyway, I guess I'm going to debug a bit and file a bug for jgdx
[14:09] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[14:09] <kenvandine> sthat means it thinks the unconditional isn't set... but it sounds like the UI thinks it is
[14:09] <kenvandine> seb128, thx!
[14:09] <seb128> yw!
[14:09] <kenvandine> seb128, i just confirmed it's working for me :)
[14:10] <kenvandine> so it must have something to do with some state you're in, so hopefully not affecting tons of people
[14:10] <seb128> yeah
[14:29] <dpm> seb128, you can turn off the upstream template by marking it as disabled for each series. E.g. untick "Template is active" in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/+templates, but there is no way to redirect translators to the distro
[14:29] <seb128> dpm, do you recommend doing that?
[14:30] <AbuDhar> what is the ubuntu store called? :D
[14:30] <Elleo> kenvandine: the keyboard test fixes have finished building in silo 2, the MRs it includes are https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-sheldon/ubuntu-keyboard/fix-1477901/+merge/265839 and https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-sheldon/ubuntu-keyboard/fix-autopilot-layout-contains-key/+merge/265964
[14:30] <AbuDhar> uApp explorer ? :D
[14:30] <AbuDhar> can I check all apps there?
[14:32] <dpm> seb128, I'd rather recommend updating the upstream template, so that translators can always work with the latest strings there. But generally the complaint from developers is that it's a burden to keep the .pot up-to-date. I'd still advocate for keeping upstream translations enabled, but ultimately, it's the maintainer's decision if maintaining the upstream .pot is too much of an overhead
[14:33] <seb128> dpm, right, we went there, having to manual update leads to constant outdated templates and missing strings
[14:33] <seb128> dpm, thanks
[14:33] <Laney> Could get the train to do it
[14:33] <Elleo> kenvandine: just noticed there was a test failure in CI relating to the shift latch test on the first MR, so maybe hold off until I have a chance to look into that in more detail
[14:34] <Elleo> kenvandine: might just be flakey timing on double pressing the shift, but since it's so related to what it fixes I want to be sure
[14:34] <seb128> Laney, yeah, that would be nice, if only there was a standard way to update the template :-/
[14:34] <Laney> File a feature request asking for a way to run a script just before building the source package
[14:34] <Laney> Then in that you can do update template; commit
[14:35] <seb128> I guess we could make it similar to dh_translation for standard packages
[14:35] <seb128> then need a way for custom rules
[14:35] <Laney> and it'll push with that new commit
[14:35] <seb128> yeah
[14:35] <seb128> dpm, ^ do you know if something similar was discussed before?
[14:36] <Laney> yeah or a tick box to do it if it's standard I guess
[14:36] <AbuDhar> I need to find out what apps haven't been made.
[14:37] <lotuspsychje> AbuDhar: you can make an nmap scanner ap for me :p
[14:37] <seb128> AbuDhar, https://uappexplorer.com/
[14:39] <popey> lotuspsychje: that exists
[14:39] <AbuDhar> brb
[14:40] <lotuspsychje> popey: whats it called?
[14:40]  * ogra_ would like htop ;)
[14:40] <ogra_> (as click app indeed)
[14:40] <lotuspsychje> ogra_: nice idea
[14:41] <ogra_> still waiting for a re-usable terminal widget that we can just use
[14:41] <Laney> vte
[14:41] <Laney> oh wait :)
[14:41] <ogra_> haha
[14:46] <seb128> dpm, do you have a list of what needs to be translated somewhere? https://translations.launchpad.net/libusermetrics/ seems having few translations, unsure if that's because it's not listed where it should or if the priority on launchpad is wrong?
[14:47] <popey> seb128: http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/ ?
[14:48] <seb128> popey, I looked around that like the headers send to standard launchpad pages and the stats don't include a list of components
[14:49] <seb128> popey, where do I need to click?
[14:49] <seb128> popey, like http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/wily/fr has no useful info
[14:49] <popey> it usually lists apps at the bottom
[14:49] <popey> http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/wily/en_GB like that
[14:49] <seb128> and http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/vivid/fr has a TypeError
[14:50] <popey> bummer, will need dpm for that 🙂
[14:50] <seb128> popey, do you get that error as well?
[14:51] <popey> yes
[14:51] <seb128> k
[14:51] <seb128> do you know if there is a bugtracker for that site?
[14:52] <popey> there is a filebug link at the bottom (of working pages)
[14:52] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations-stats/+filebug
[14:54] <dpm> seb128, popey, sorry, in between calls. IIRC I didn't add libusermetrics as most of the strings were non-user-visible error messages
[14:54] <seb128> dpm, k, indeed it has like 30 strings and only the "No data source available" is user visible that I can tell
[14:55] <seb128> but it can be quite visible
[14:55] <seb128> though there is a design bug that it's not a nice one to display so maybe they are going to fix is so it doesn't display anymore
[14:55] <seb128> dpm, thanks
[14:55] <dpm> popey, seb128, I haven't implemented a feature to unhide the translated packages, but a workaround to see the apps/services to be translated is to look at a language with no translations: http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/wily/zun
[14:56] <seb128> dpm, thanks :-)
[15:22] <mhall119> ogra_: man, you make one little statement on G+, and suddenly you're everywhere :)
[15:22] <ogra_> lovely, aint it ? :P
[15:51] <cimi> seb128, hey seb! I bought a new bluetooth keyboard to work on the pocket desktop, and system settings fail to pair because they prompt the wrong bluetooth auth method, do you have time tomorrow to help me debugging it?
[15:51] <seb128> cimi, yeah, sure
[15:51] <cimi> (works on desktop, not on ubuntu touch)
[15:51] <seb128> what do you call "wrong method"?
[15:52] <cimi> seb128, on desktop, android, ios, when I try to pair it asks me 6 numbers to type on the keyboard and press enter
[15:52] <cimi> seb128, on ubuntu touch, I have a notification with "enter pin" and 0000 in the entry
[15:52] <seb128> can you enter the 6 digits number?
[15:53] <seb128> oh, I see what you mean
[15:53] <seb128> k
[15:53] <cimi> yeah
[16:05] <seb128> dpm, did the filenames on http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/data/ubuntu-l10n/ change?
[16:07] <dpm> seb128, not that I know of recently, let me check
[16:07] <seb128> dpm, langpack-o-matic tries to open "vivid-potemplate-..." and the files are named "ubuntu_vivid_potemplate"
[16:09] <dpm> seb128, we changed the names (by appending the distro name) when ubuntu-rtm was first created, so that the stats site and langpack-o-matic could support ubuntu and derived distros, but that was quite a while ago
[16:09] <seb128> dpm, k, I wonder if the code to read priorities got buggy since
[16:09] <seb128> there was a try/except with rtm handling code in there
[16:10] <seb128> but that bails out now, which I guess is because rtm got deprecated
[16:11] <seb128> dpm, also the touch script look for priority > 1500 and glib20 has 1300, should that be increased in launchpad?
[16:11] <dpm> seb128, not sure what's going on on the langpack-o-matic side of things. on the people.u.c location only the ubuntu_* and ubuntu-rtm_* data dumps are being updated
[16:11] <dpm> as the other naming is deprecated
[16:12] <seb128> dpm, I guess langpack-o-matic just needs updating
[16:12] <seb128> dpm, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/view/head:/import#L392
[16:13] <seb128> dpm, I'm going to wait for pitti to be back to check if the rtm fallback case is still needed
[16:14] <seb128> dpm, what about the priority? should glib be bumped to 1600 or something?
[16:15] <dpm> (sorry, otp again)
[16:23] <kenvandine> Elleo, i have silo 2 installed now, will test anyway
[16:25] <dpm> seb128, yeah, it might make sense to bump the priority to 1600 to make it shippable by langpack-o-matic
[16:25] <seb128> dpm, can you do that?
[16:26] <dpm> seb128, sure
[16:27] <seb128> dpm, thanks :-)
[16:27] <seb128> dpm, sorry for all the pings today!
[16:27] <dpm> seb128, no worries, just came back from a conference, so I had to do a lot of catch up anyway :)
[16:28] <seb128> dpm, I hope the conf was good :-)
[16:28] <dpm> seb128, bumped priorities for glib20 on vivid and wily. Yeah, I was at the Community Leadership Summit and OSCON, all very good :)
[16:28] <seb128> great :-)
[16:28] <seb128> thanks again
[16:35] <kenvandine> Elleo, was the settings test you saw that failed in the phone tests?
[16:37] <AbuDhar> How does Bazaar differ from git?
[16:40] <seb128> AbuDhar, http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/BzrVsGit
[16:47] <Elleo> kenvandine: nah, it was a keyboard test that failed in CI, but had passed fine on device
[16:47] <AbuDhar> seb128, reading.
[16:47] <kenvandine> Elleo, you had mentioned earlier that you did see one of the settings test fail right?
[16:48] <kenvandine> much earlier :)
[16:48] <Elleo> kenvandine: oh yes, a checkbox test
[16:48] <Elleo> I think there were two failures
[16:48] <kenvandine> i just saw that in the phone tests, test_call_fwd_when_unreachable_sim_2
[16:48] <Elleo> yeah, that was it
[16:48] <Elleo> unfortunately I've rebooted since then so I'm not sure which the other was
[16:48] <kenvandine> no worries
[16:49] <Elleo> it failed with a "True != False" but no mention of specific components
[16:49] <kenvandine> if i run just that test it passes
[16:49] <kenvandine> yeah, that's what i just saw
[16:53] <kenvandine> 12:50:46.885 WARNING backends:244 - Your query 'Query(b'/maliit-server/QQuickView/Keyboard/QQuickItem/QQuickMouseArea/QQuickItem/QQuickItem/KeyboardContainer/QQuickLoader/KeyPad[id=58]//CharKey')' returned a lot of data (28 items). This is likely to be slow. You may want to consider optimising your query to return fewer items.
[16:53] <kenvandine> Elleo, ^^^ i've never noticed that warning before
[16:54] <Elleo> kenvandine: yeah, that's normal jgdx was asking about it last week; it's due to autopilot requesting all the keys in the current layout
[16:55] <kenvandine> ok
[16:55] <Elleo> kenvandine: it then caches them so it only does that lookup once per layout for a whole test suite though
[16:55] <kenvandine> cool
[16:55] <Elleo> kenvandine: it's actually that caching that was causing the symbol != characters and None key issues, as it was just keeping one cache of either characters or symbols for all layouts
[16:56] <kenvandine> ah
[16:56] <Elleo> kenvandine: so if it loaded a numeric layout first it only ever knew about numbers, even when the normal layout was displayed because it thought it already had it cached
[16:56] <kenvandine> i see
[16:56] <kenvandine> thx for fixing it :)
[16:56] <Elleo> and if loaded the other way around it tried to go to the symbol layout to get at numbers (and the number layouts don't have symbol layouts)
[16:56] <Elleo> no worries :)
[16:57] <kenvandine> i'll add my review to the merge proposals soon
[16:57] <kenvandine> running another set of tests
[16:57] <Elleo> kenvandine: it looks like that shift latch issue is a genuine new bug though, so I'm going to need to fix that before that first MR can be reviewed
[16:57] <mzanetti> jdstrand, seems that installing apps with the new apparmor permission on older devices makes it fail to generate an apparmor profile. is that intended?
[16:57] <Elleo> for some reason autopilot ends up pressing the shift button 3 times
[16:57] <Elleo> so it goes to capslock and then switches out of it again
[16:57] <kenvandine> Elleo, which one?  fix-1477901?
[16:57] <Elleo> kenvandine: yeah
[16:57] <kenvandine> ok
[16:59] <kenvandine> Elleo, i think your other branch fixes what was causing me the biggest problem
[16:59] <kenvandine> although the shift was causing a problem too
[16:59] <kenvandine> but the layout changes was hosing everything :)
[16:59] <jdstrand> mzanetti: that isn't intended-- but how old are the devices? what new apparmor permission? how are you installing the apps? are you reinstalling them?
[17:00] <mzanetti> jdstrand, the device image is OTA-4
[17:00] <mzanetti> jdstrand, I've added keep-display-on to machines-vs-machines
[17:00] <mzanetti> jdstrand, now I'm getting reports that the app "crashes at startup"
[17:00] <Elleo> kenvandine: okay, cool
[17:00] <mzanetti> jdstrand, I've investigated, seems that installing the app on OTA-4 devices through the store makes it install without complaining but it just doesn't laucnher
[17:01] <jdstrand> mzanetti: oh I see-- the device must have apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu 1.3.13
[17:01] <mzanetti> jdstrand, a bit of searching revealed that there is no apparmor profile in /userdata/system-data/var/lib/apparmor/profiles
[17:01] <jdstrand> mzanetti: this is a new policy group that was added
[17:01] <mzanetti> jdstrand, yeah... I would have assumed it would just skip if it doesn't know what to do with it
[17:01] <mzanetti> jdstrand, but instead the complete profile file seems missing
[17:01] <jdstrand> mzanetti: it would fail to generate the profile in this case
[17:02] <jdstrand> mzanetti: it skips the profile, not the policy group
[17:02] <mzanetti> problem is, I don't have any way to depend on it (unless I'm missing something)
[17:02] <mzanetti> I can only depend on framework 15.04, which is satisfied on OTA-4 too
[17:03] <jdstrand> mzanetti: you are correct. people have to upgrade to ota-5 and there is no way for an app developer to depend on that
[17:03] <popey> 🙁
[17:03] <jdstrand> so either you back out the change or tell people to upgrade
[17:03] <mzanetti> that smells like we need a change of the process :)
[17:04] <jdstrand> it was a very unusual case
[17:04] <mzanetti> actually not
[17:04] <mzanetti> maybe for apparmor
[17:04] <jdstrand> normally we don't change policy in this manner unless it goes with a new framework
[17:04] <mzanetti> but we're frequently adding stuff without bumping the framework
[17:04] <mzanetti> i.e. the whole shell-rotations tuff
[17:05] <jdstrand> but there was a lot of proessure to get this in stable-phone-overlay
[17:05]  * jdstrand is only talking about apparmor)
[17:05] <mzanetti> I would think we'd need to bump the framework version with every OTA
[17:05] <jdstrand> why are people still on ota-4?
[17:05] <mzanetti> dunno
[17:05] <mzanetti> but there are some
[17:06] <mzanetti> I guess my mum didn't upgrade her phone yet
[17:06] <jdstrand> I think that is the primary issue
[17:06] <mzanetti> my gf didnt upgrade her tablet yet
[17:06] <jdstrand> ota-4 has been out for... 2 months?
[17:06] <mzanetti> yeah well, talking about OTA-5
[17:06] <mzanetti> but still
[17:06] <jdstrand> oh right
[17:06] <jdstrand> so a couple weeks
[17:06] <mzanetti> I mean... there are devices out there that, for example some one installs and the actual user doesn't bother with updates
[17:06] <jdstrand> so, yeah, either wait or tell the reporters to upgrade. that is the best we can do atm
[17:07] <mzanetti> sure... just thinking about the bigger picture
[17:07] <mzanetti> to me this sounds like a problem we need to solve in the long-run
[17:07] <jdstrand> I acknowledge what you are saying
[17:07] <jdstrand> but we don't support old versions
[17:08] <jdstrand> so people should roll with the updates
[17:08] <mzanetti> hmm... not sure if it's that easy... at some point for example some hardware won't be able to upgrade
[17:08] <jdstrand> and if they don't, they might get in trouble
[17:08] <mzanetti> we can't just give them app-updates that break the already installed ones
[17:09] <jdstrand> once ota-5 was out, ota-4 was out of support (except to upgrade to ota-5). same with 14.09
[17:09]  * jdstrand notes that he is merely stating what the decisions were from the past
[17:09] <mzanetti> :)
[17:10] <jdstrand> but there is no concept of point releases for this or for snappy
[17:10] <jdstrand> you are on a channel
[17:10] <jdstrand> and you need to get the updates for that channel
[17:10] <jdstrand> right now, quite a few things in the platform are changing and the channel is getting rather big updates without framework changes
[17:10] <jdstrand> which I agree is problematic
[17:11] <jdstrand> I expect these sorts of framework violations to be less frequent
[17:12] <jdstrand> as the platform matures and we can deliver framework breaking features with a new framework
[17:13] <mzanetti> yep... but then, if we only release 2 framework bumps a year, but an OTA every month, that means 10 out of 12 OTAs could only do bug-fixes
[17:13] <mzanetti> which doesn't sound like the solution
[17:13] <mzanetti> the frameworks should be "framework-ota-5" instead of "framework-15.04"
[17:14] <mzanetti> or something
[17:14] <mzanetti> anyhow... nothing we can change right now... will to summarize this up for some higher ups
[17:14] <jdstrand> I guess it depends on how we plan to update the platform
[17:15] <jdstrand> also, those 10 out of the 12 don't have to be bug fixes-- they just couldn't introduce features for app developers to use
[17:16] <mzanetti> fair enough
[17:16] <jdstrand> this seems like something that should be brought up for discussion on the list
[17:16] <mzanetti> yep
[17:16] <jdstrand> really, the problem is we are violating our own policy
[17:17] <jdstrand> well, and that people aren't upgrading
[17:17] <jdstrand> but mostly the former
[17:17] <jdstrand> the latter just avoids problems
[17:17] <jdstrand> (ie, if everyone upgrades, no one will notice we are violating our own policies)
[17:17] <jjohansen> jdstrand: we do have a plan to fix this in apparmor without having to bump policy frameworks
[17:18] <jdstrand> jjohansen: I'm not sure what 'this' you are referring to. you mean if an abstraction is missing, keep on going?
[17:19] <jjohansen> jdstrand: yes, but more than that. To be able to deal with new rule types etc that are not understood
[17:19]  * jdstrand notes that this particular issue wasn't a missing abstraction, but that click-apparmor noticed that keep-display-on wasn't on the device and didn't generate policy
[17:20] <jdstrand> right
[17:20] <jdstrand> I mean, we could also adjust click-apparmor to instead of failing to generate the profile to instead skip a missing policy group
[17:21] <jjohansen> right, we need a plan for that layer as well
[17:21] <jdstrand> but that doesn't help mzanetti cause that would require an ota upgrade that users aren't performing. also, it doesn't solve if the template is missing, etc. plus, that may not be the right thing to do policy wise
[17:22] <jdstrand> so we are currently erring on the safe-side and assuming we'll follow our own framework policies (which in this case was an invalid assumption)
[17:23] <jjohansen> which is why need to look at this again
[17:26] <AbuDhar> do we need a snapchat app? :D
[17:26] <jdstrand> I think we'll know more how to proceed when this is discussed on the list.
[17:27] <jdstrand> it's bigger than apparmor (eg, that aforementioned shell rotation)
[17:27] <jjohansen> sure
[17:27] <ogra_> AbuDhar, i think there is an alernative (soonsnap from robru ) but no real snapchat yet
[17:30] <AbuDhar> I see ogra_ ...
[17:30] <AbuDhar> I don't like its GUI though
[17:30] <AbuDhar> doesn't look like snapchat's at all
[17:31] <ogra_> well, write another one then :)
[17:31] <AbuDhar> I will start with an app that doesn't exist yet
[17:31] <ogra_> it isnt like robru has a monopoly here ;)
[17:31] <AbuDhar> lol
[17:36] <Paul_> hi
[17:54] <AbuDhar> hi
[17:57] <robru> ogra_: oh please I deserve no credit. My thing is a zero-effort webapp wrapper around aquaris' excellent soonsnap.com.
[18:05] <AbuDhar> well at least you did that :P
[18:07] <AbuDhar> Web apps are HTML5 apps and Apps are native apps on uApp Explorer right?
[18:14] <cwayne> mhall119: should d.u.c point to 15.04 docs as stable now instead of 14.10?
[18:14] <beuno> ahayzen, web apps are just links to pages, and apps are native
[18:29] <AbuDhar> I don't see the benefits of web apps.. why not just use the browser then?
[18:30] <AbuDhar> beuno
[18:33] <beuno> AbuDhar, convenience, it's a faster bookmark
[18:36] <mhall119> cwayne: https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/current/ points to 15.04 now, yes
[18:37] <mhall119> cwayne: for QML, HTML5 and C++ docs
[18:38] <cwayne> oops, sorry
[18:38] <cwayne> i could've sworn i saw a 14.10 somewhere
[18:38] <mhall119> cwayne: 14.10 docs are still there, just not aliased to "current" anymore
[18:39] <mhall119> cwayne: https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/apps/qml/ shows the aliases in parenthesis
[18:42] <juzzlin> Is it possible to create an "offline" WebGL game with e.g. three.js for Ubuntu touch? or do the web apps always have to pull data from a server?
[18:44] <mhall119> juzzlin: you can make a local HTML5 app
[18:44] <mhall119> in that case it's not a "webapp", just an html5 app
[18:44] <juzzlin> ok, great
[18:45] <mhall119> juzzlin: see https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/html-5/ for more info
[18:45] <juzzlin> thanks
[19:10] <AbuDhar> but it is possible to make HTML5 that are not just like regular web pages
[21:11] <AbuDhar> can I ask something? what app do you think is missing from the Ubuntu app store?
[21:14] <k1l_> whatsapp :)
[21:21] <AbuDhar> okay.. let me check if whatsapp has an API
[21:25] <AbuDhar> http://mashable.com/2015/03/25/whatsapp-developers-api/
[21:25] <BOHverkill> who needs whatsapp?
[21:25] <AbuDhar> those who use it? :D
[21:25]  * BOHverkill do not use whatsapp
[21:26] <BOHverkill> AbuDhar: here is a list of apps/scopes https://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/2015/06/27/ubuntu-app-scope-wishlist-june-2015/
[21:26] <AbuDhar> thanks.. that list is nice to have.
[21:27] <AbuDhar> later guys.
[21:28] <cwayne> whatsapp has pretty much the opposite of an api
[21:28] <cwayne> they actively dont want people to write apps for it
[21:29] <BOHverkill> its facebook
[21:30] <k1l_> yes, but they only want you to use their site and their apps to use whatsapp.
[21:30] <AbuDhar> we need AdBlock :P
[21:31] <AbuDhar> and an IRC client :)
[21:31] <BOHverkill> iirc there is an irc client
[21:32] <AbuDhar> not according to that list. :P not a native one at least.
[21:32] <BOHverkill> k that could be
[21:33] <AbuDhar> maybe a VLC client would be nice as well.
[21:33] <BOHverkill> yes that is on my list :P
[21:34] <AbuDhar> also native Dropbox client? :)
[21:34] <BOHverkill> ther is on
[21:34] <BOHverkill> *one
[21:36] <AbuDhar> We need an AirBNB app for Ubuntu right? :D
[21:37] <AbuDhar> Remote Desktop App would be so nice.. I want to write a VNC wrapper.
[22:06] <AbuDhar> how is the Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition? would you recommend it?