[05:24] <bujji> Happy Friendship Day all
[05:59] <mappps> morning
[06:49] <knightwise> morning everyone
[09:02] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:31] <Nokaji> Morning brobostigon
[09:33] <Nokaji> Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears - Within Terminal is a useful function to scroll through previous code via the <UP> button. After a while though, seldom used code gets lost in the quagmire. Is there a better method of organising/storing previously used code snippets?
[09:35] <Nokaji> If I knew where terminal kept its log of previously used commands, maybe i could do a simple word-search in gedit, if there is no better method
[09:40] <brobostigon> morning Nokaji
[09:40] <brobostigon> use your up and down arrows on your keyboard to find previously used commands.
[09:42] <Nokaji> I do that however some code is endlessly repeated. My preference would be for a single example to minimise searching, maybe filed alphabetically but that is of limited use unlessI can recall how a thing starts. guess i'll track down a text file it stores it in
[09:44] <Nokaji> maybe someone has produced a reference work or even an app
[09:59] <shauno> you might want to play with the ctrl-R stuff that lets you search your history.  'history' alone will print out a record of that's in there too
[10:01] <shauno> the contents usually live in ~/.bash_history but I think you'll find more benefit from learning how better to use it in-place (rather than just up/down)
[10:02] <Nokaji> Thanks shauno, I just discovered this as well - http://fosswire.com/post/2008/04/ubuntu-cheat-sheet/
[10:05] <Nokaji> That Control R stuff is perfect, thanks again - problem solved
[11:44] <ali1234> why are there two different versions of /usr/include/linux/i2c-dev.h - one of which doesn't work and is the version installed by default, the other of which does work and gets installed if you install libi2c-dev?
[11:49] <popey> directhex: ikonia http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b063yqpy may be of interest to you chaps.
[11:49] <popey> directhex: ikonia lots of discussion of colas, sodas and new drinks.
[11:49] <popey> more tomorrow too
[11:53] <penguin42> ali1234: Which package does the broken one come from?
[11:54] <ali1234> penguin42: linux-libc-dev:amd64
[11:56] <penguin42> ali1234: I suspect that comes from the kernel and is the kernels definition of it's interface from include/uapi/linux/i2c-dev.h in the kernel tree   - it seems wrong that there are two in the same location though
[11:56] <ali1234> example code: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11985923/
[11:56] <ali1234> this compiles iff you have libi2c-dev installed
[11:56] <ali1234> if you don't you get error: ‘i2c_smbus_access’ undeclared
[11:57] <ali1234> this is really stupid
[11:58] <penguin42> ali1234: IMHO that's a bug in libi2c-dev for putting it's header files there
[12:01] <ali1234> i suspect it's been this way for like 10 years
[12:01] <ali1234> and now cannot be fixed
[12:02] <penguin42> yeh
[15:15] <knightwise> ok :) spent an interesting morning reading about social engineering
[15:16] <knightwise> never read an infobrochure of the FBI before
[15:17] <penguin42> haha
[15:18]  * penguin42 tries just to watch a Demand5 program and is failing miserably; won't work on flash on a web browser, the app has stopped working on my Android phone
[15:18] <penguin42> and the kodi/xbmc plugin wont work on the current kodi
[15:19] <knightwise> any of you ever caught the show 'the real husttle" ?
[15:19] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[15:19] <knightwise> hey big
[15:19] <bigcalm> Lovely afternoon on the M6. Sandbatch services keeping me awake
[15:21] <penguin42> bigcalm: erm lovely
[15:21] <bigcalm> Using service station WiFi reminds me that I should have set up open VPN on my phone. Ho hum
[15:22] <zmoylan-pi> using public wifi is like sharing floppies in 90s :-)
[15:22] <penguin42> doesn't sound safe
[15:23] <zmoylan-pi> the trick was to see how many virii you could get on one floppy... :-)
[15:25] <bigcalm> Think I'll have a nap in the car
[15:25] <penguin42> bigcalm: Why are you stuck in Sandbach services?
[15:26] <orothusuk> andbach services
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: not a lot, if they all wanted their piece of the boot sector :P
[16:25] <zmoylan-pi> you threw on infected com files and exes which some muggins was sure to run
[16:37] <Hanra> Quick note to Daftykins : I got my BIOS password reset. All I needed was to get a thin plectrum in town to help me separate the last bit
[17:07] <daftykins> Hanra: huzzah \o/
[17:07] <daftykins> Hanra: do much more than remove the battery for a minute or so?
[17:08] <zmoylan-pi> 1) remove battery 2) count to 60 hippopotami 3) reinsert battery :-)
[17:08] <mappps> hi all
[17:08] <daftykins> evenin'
[17:09] <mappps> cant wait to get  fan
[17:09] <mappps> s stud hot just sitting down watchinv tv eps is unfun:)
[17:10] <daftykins> s stud hot?
[17:10] <mappps> so stupid hot
[17:10] <mappps> see making me type bad
[17:10] <mappps> :P
[17:12] <daftykins> hah
[17:12] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s5wwdkzkizzkwu5/VID_20150802_164853.mp4?dl=0
[17:12] <daftykins> took a video of Condor Liberation pulling into harbour, on a little cycle along the seafront
[17:13] <mappps> ;D
[17:13] <daftykins> that was a bit more stable, this one was freehand
[17:13] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ilt68r7trygbq6/VID_20150802_164622.mp4?dl=0
[17:15] <Hanra> Ok, I have a new and exciting problem for you Daftykins : "USB HDD: Generic Flash Disk has been blocked by the current security policy" <- That's my live CD booty thing on a stick
[17:15] <mappps> this aartment i looked at is so nice
[17:15] <mappps> BUT £1200..ac ..and no oven..and tiny s its a studio
[17:16] <daftykins> Hanra: well did you enter the BIOS and have a nose around first?
[17:16] <mappps> built as a hotel oiginall which explains why no oven
[17:16] <daftykins> mappps: heh that's the kinda place ideal for those spending their income straight on restaurants
[17:17] <Hanra> Daftykins: Bit of a nose around, got the boot order behaving.
[17:17] <Hanra> Daftykins: going to have another nose around, didn't expect this latest issue
[17:17] <daftykins> Hanra: is it down from 111 now? :P
[17:17] <daftykins> yeah look around the security area
[17:20] <mappps> yea
[17:20] <mappps> i figure could get a steamer and use that
[17:20] <daftykins> hardly ideal :S
[17:20] <Hanra> Daftykins : I only have to active options in security, and they're both to set passwords
[17:21] <daftykins> so still knackered eh
[17:23] <Hanra> On the plus side, only 4 options now :)
[17:23] <daftykins> \o/
[17:23] <daftykins> so no luck with DVD or flash drive again huh?
[17:23] <Hanra> Flash drive is "blocked by the current security policy"
[17:24] <Hanra> I managed to use an old live CD by changing from UEFI to legacy bios
[17:24] <Hanra> but when I ran boot repair I got an error complaining I wasn't un UEFI mode
[17:24] <daftykins> pre-12.04?
[17:24] <daftykins> oh yeah you don't want to run out of date tools on an EFI system, ouch
[17:24] <Hanra>  12.04 beta2
[17:25] <daftykins> so you just need an up to date DVD burnt by your housemate perhaps :P or by yourself from Windows!
[17:25] <daftykins> you might even be able to use PLOP to chainload a flash drive
[17:25] <Hanra> why can't I change the security policy on my own darn machine?
[17:26] <daftykins> because it sounds like the battery removal only reset the user password, not the supervisor password
[17:26] <daftykins> there's probably a hard disk password too
[17:26] <Hanra> I can set the supervisor password
[17:26] <Hanra> it's "clear"
[17:27] <daftykins> useless without having them all removed
[17:27] <Hanra> Explain
[17:27] <Hanra> If I set a supervisor password now, would that give me access to everything else?
[17:28] <daftykins> doubt it
[17:28] <zmoylan-pi> i think it does on some wacky asus models? let me check to see if i can find the mention i saw
[17:29] <daftykins> well considering we're talking about hitting a few keys to enter a password to try, it certainly won't hurt
[17:29] <Hanra> ok, unlocked
[17:30] <Hanra> how do I allow the flash drive?
[17:30] <Hanra> Options are :
[17:30] <Hanra> Erase All secure boot setting [Enter]
[17:31] <Hanra> Select an UEFI file as trusted for executing [Enter]
[17:31] <Hanra> Restore Secure Boot to Factory Default [Enter]
[17:31] <daftykins> well obviously none of those are relevant whatsoever
[17:32] <zmoylan-pi> acer, not asus... http://itsfoss.com/disable-secure-boot-in-acer/ ran into it when disabling secure boot a few weeks back
[17:34] <daftykins> hmm novel
[17:34] <daftykins> i've never needed that approach taken to enter BIOS via Windows GUI, though it's written about so much
[17:35] <Hanra> And another reason I hate windows and wish the guy who sold me this laptop chose to just give me a linux laptop (as I requested) rather than a dual booting one
[17:35] <penguin42> yeh the hiding it until setting a supervisor password is fun
[17:35] <Hanra> thanks zmoylan-pi
[17:36] <mappps> Gibraltar
[17:36] <mappps> Sunday 19:00
[17:36] <mappps> Partly Cloudy
[17:36] <mappps> Partly Cloudy
[17:36] <mappps> 25°C | °F
[17:36] <daftykins> i don't think Windows is to blame for the poor state of your laptop
[17:36] <mappps> Precipitation: 0%
[17:36] <mappps> Humidity: 83%
[17:36] <daftykins> it's the guy you got it from :P
[17:36] <mappps> Wind: 10 mph
[17:36] <mappps> TemperaturePrecipitationWind
[17:36] <mappps> no wonder i feel so hot and stick
[17:36] <mappps> 73% humidity
[17:36] <zmoylan-pi> i always blame windows... :-p
[17:36] <mappps> ugh
[17:36] <Hanra> Oh good, now windows thinks my PC needs fixing....
[17:36] <daftykins> 25 heh, it was 22 here today
[17:37] <mappps> but the humidity daftykins ;p
[17:37] <Hanra> and I really think I can blame windows :)
[17:37] <daftykins> yeah it's usually pretty high here too
[17:38] <daftykins> usually up to 90%
[17:38] <mappps> its horrd
[17:38] <mappps> you got ac?
[17:39] <daftykins> nope
[17:39] <mappps> wows
[17:39] <mappps> we get lik no breeze hear
[17:39] <mappps> so even with indows open its horrible
[17:39] <daftykins> granite house though, it's cool down here in the lowest floor
[17:39] <mappps> windows
[17:40] <daftykins> ah tonnes of wind at times
[17:42] <zmoylan-pi> eat lots of beans... provide your own ac... :-)
[17:43] <mappps> heh
[17:44] <Hanra> That... wouldn't work zmolyan. Not sure the thermodynamics of that solution have been fully studied but still... no
[17:44] <zmoylan-pi> no no, you do that for a month, then stop, then you'll never complain about the heat again :-)
[17:46] <daftykins> mappps: stock up on ice creams
[17:46] <daftykins> :>
[17:47] <zmoylan-pi> in a freezer, warming up his apartment...
[17:48] <Hanra> I'm in...
[17:48] <Hanra> fsck this is a lot of effort
[17:48] <daftykins> yeah don't buy from a psycho next time
[17:48] <daftykins> :D
[17:49] <daftykins> selling machines with BIOS passwords, honestly
[17:49] <zmoylan-pi> there are computers supplied by companies who aren't run by psychos?
[17:49] <Hanra> they swear they didn't
[17:49] <mappps> heh
[17:50] <Hanra> who knows, I may have set it in a fit of confusion the last time a windows update broke grub :p
[17:50] <Hanra> as I have just had to do because Acer likes to not allow you to change things *unless* you have that password set
[17:51] <Hanra> this time I've chosen one I'll remember... and I'm still going to clear it the second I finish fixing grub
[17:51] <zmoylan-pi> it's the i know what i'm doing... cuts branch you're sitting on...
[17:52] <Hanra> "It's OK, I'll remember the password"
[17:52] <daftykins> :>
[17:52] <zmoylan-pi> famous last words... :-)
[17:52]  * Hanra makes a mental note to set all his passwords to "I'll remember the password"
[17:53] <daftykins> and write them down, storing the paper in a 'safe place'
[17:53]  * zmoylan-pi remembers the customer who used the make of their monitor as a password and couldn't log in when it was replaced...
[17:53]  * Hanra lol's hard
[17:54]  * zmoylan-pi spent 15 minutes ringing our delivery guy to read out the brands of monitors he'd retrieved when he installed the new ones...
[17:54] <Hanra> Oh wow. Just... wow
[17:55] <zmoylan-pi> the password was of course sony
[17:55] <Hanra> That was it?
[17:55] <Hanra> just "sony"?
[17:55] <Hanra> Laaaame
[17:55] <daftykins> idiots =|
[17:55] <zmoylan-pi> the one brand we didn't sell so i was trying about 20 other makes...
[17:55] <daftykins> i'm amazed any password policy was met by that one ;)
[17:56]  * zmoylan-pi looks shifty when a security company we worked for used 1 letter passwords for some accounts
[17:57] <penguin42> daftykins: So there is a good reason to sell machines with bios paswords set if you're shipping them - as long as you tell the buyer; it helps to stop basic in-transit attacks
[17:57] <zmoylan-pi> it was pre internet so it was more to prevent people 'accidently' logging into other peoples computers to see their data than protection against evil hackers
[17:57]  * Hanra looks shifty when the company he used to work for mapped all special characters to underscores in their password system
[17:57] <penguin42> haha
[17:57]  * Hanra looks even more shifty as passwords were being passed around on the backend systems virtually unencrypted
[17:57] <daftykins> penguin42: this sounded more a personal transaction than a company, so i'm not thinking so grandiose
[17:58]  * Hanra also seems to recall passwords were stored using reversible algorithms
[17:58]  * penguin42 would be surprised if they used any algorithm at all - probably better these days
[17:58] <zmoylan-pi> rot 13 ftw \o/
[18:00] <Hanra> Oh how I have missed the Ubuntu startup screen
[18:00] <Hanra> and, for that matter, the grub GUI
[18:00] <daftykins> booting your flash drive now is it?
[18:01] <Hanra> Nope, did that. Boot repaired
[18:01] <Hanra> done. Fixed. Trauma over
[18:01] <Hanra> I learnt something this weekend.
[18:02] <daftykins> winnar
[18:02] <Hanra> Supervisor password reset.
[18:02] <Hanra> Much better
[18:02] <Hanra> Feels good
[18:03] <Hanra> Thanks for holding my hand through that guys, much appreciated
[18:03] <Hanra> especially you daftykins for being so helpful
[18:03] <Hanra> but also I'd like to thank zmoylan-pi
[18:03] <daftykins> now, i have to admit to not believing a Windows Update caused this, so if you'd be so good as to go update Windows and see if it hoses it again ;)
[18:03]  * Hanra gets oscar for noobish noob
[18:03] <zmoylan-pi> remember the fun days we had to fix our computers offline as it was our only computer :-)
[18:04] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[18:04] <daftykins> eh all i did was point you to eric then say take the tinopener to it :P
[18:04] <Hanra> Eh, still I ended up actually taking a tin opener to it
[18:04] <zmoylan-pi> and not the hammer... i see where you went wrong... :-)
[18:04] <Hanra> well, not a tin opener
[18:04] <Hanra> a plectrum
[18:04] <Hanra> but same principle
[18:05] <Hanra> and yeah, so glad I have a billion backup PCs
[18:05] <daftykins> :>
[18:05] <Hanra> servers, pi's etc.
[18:05]  * Hanra hugs his little raspberry-pi
[18:05]  * Hanra hugs his old tower that now sort of serves stuff when it's not making weird noises
[18:06]  * zmoylan-pi hails the rasp pi...
[18:06]  * Hanra hugs his ps3. Just because
[18:07]  * Hanra plays "Still alive"
[19:20] <diddledan> m00
[19:21] <daftykins> hello sir, what's new?
[19:21] <diddledan> evening
[19:21] <diddledan> nothing much new
[19:21] <diddledan> saw my niece n nephew today \o/
[19:21] <diddledan> my niece can talk now!?!
[19:21] <daftykins> neat :)
[19:21] <daftykins> that's scary!
[19:22] <diddledan> my nephew starts bigboys school in septober
[19:22] <diddledan> it's going too fast
[19:22] <daftykins> mmhmm, keep seeing a friends baby grow scarily quick
[19:28] <zmoylan-pi> it's when i found my 18 month old nephew had managed to insert a tape in my zx spectrum +2 :'-)
[19:29] <daftykins> oops
[19:29] <daftykins> or you mean, a matching one? :)
[19:29] <zmoylan-pi> he managed to get a tape from case on shelf, open tape deck and insert it correctly when i wasn't there
[19:30] <diddledan> ok. I've managed to create a folder in windows that is impossible to delete
[19:30] <zmoylan-pi> if i had of known he was so trainable i could have left him with a stack of blanks and my sisters tape to tape deck :-)
[19:31] <diddledan> I am not the "owner" but I can't claim ownership even in an elevated command prompt
[19:32] <diddledan> > takeown /f wireframe
[19:32] <diddledan> ERROR: Access is denied.
[19:32] <diddledan> I have no clue
[19:32] <daftykins> :D
[19:33] <diddledan> with loonicks at least root can do everything (unless you have evil things in your kernel like NSALinux.. I mean SELinux)
[19:34] <zmoylan-pi> linux gives you enough freedom to delete the os from under yourself and still keep going... :-)
[19:34] <diddledan> windows seems .. administrator really isn't
[19:34] <daftykins> can't say i've seen that one
[19:35] <diddledan> it's the result of a failed `git submodule add` command
[19:35] <zleap> i think the idea is that windows isn't set up so that you can do things easily incase someone does that by accident, may MS don't think users are capabkle of being careful when typing
[19:36] <zleap> npt sure how deltree -r *.* would work in windows as adminstrator
[19:36] <zleap> from say the c: prompt
[19:37] <zmoylan-pi> what was the command in dos/windows... recover? that 'saved' files that were lost clusters
[19:37] <zmoylan-pi> but renamed all existing files at same time for fun and games
[19:37] <zleap> undelete
[19:37] <zleap> in linux there is a suite called testdisk
[19:38] <zleap> which if you have somewhere to copy to, (say a blank hdd) is very good at recovering data and lost partitions
[19:38] <daftykins> i don't think deltree has been around for a while
[19:39] <diddledan> to remove a tree from a command prompt these days you use `rmdir /s /q \path\to\folder`
[19:39] <diddledan> rd is also suitable in the same case
[19:39] <diddledan> rmdir and rd are aliases
[19:40] <diddledan> those switches: /s = subdirs too, /q = shut up and just do it!
[19:41] <diddledan> "press any key to continue" .. "are you sure?" .. "proceed with X?"
[19:42] <diddledan> don't you love the idea that people need handholding through everything?
[19:42] <diddledan> those three questions should all be asked sequentially before starting a single task
[19:43] <diddledan> preferably with the last one asked in-between any subsequent subtasks
[19:43]  * zmoylan-pi remembers when people used to delete c:\windows and c:\dos before that to free space on their systems...
[19:43] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: \o/
[19:44] <diddledan> with dos theoretically you could run without the userland and just have the command.com file
[19:44] <diddledan> I forget what the other important system file was called
[19:44] <diddledan> something .sys
[19:44] <zmoylan-pi> right up till they tried to format a floppy, xcopy or backup restore data..., and then location of himem.sys country.sys files
[19:45] <diddledan> heh, my dos days were prior to himem.sys existing
[19:45] <daftykins> himem ? :>
[19:45] <daftykins> ah
[19:45] <zmoylan-pi> extended memory, then emm386.sys or .exe in later versions
[19:45] <diddledan> 640KB really was enough for me
[19:47] <diddledan> I jumped straight from an 8086 AMSTRAD PC1512 (the 512 there indicating the amount of RAMs in KB that it shipped with - we upgraded to 640) up to a Pentium P133 with Windows95
[19:47] <diddledan> completely missed the old himem.sys days with win3
[19:47]  * zmoylan-pi was loaned out to other companies to push their systems to maximum ram as i had a knack of ordering things to get maximum bytes of conventional memory
[19:47] <diddledan> missed/bypassed
[19:48] <diddledan> yeah the config.sys configuration file writing was a black art
[19:49] <diddledan> load the cdrom before or after the mouse?
[19:49] <diddledan> it made a difference!
[19:49] <daftykins> :D
[19:49] <daftykins> i had to do all that for a PIII Dell laptop i had
[19:49] <daftykins> get smartdrv working so Windows would install faster ;)
[19:50] <diddledan> I remember a friend had an old PC with a pre-IDE cdrom drive that he tried endlessly to get going
[19:50] <zmoylan-pi> i could spend hours trying to get share, ipx, netx, keyboard and country driver loaded AND still load accounts software in conventional memory
[19:50]  * penguin42 actually got paid for one summer holiday to do CD-ROM XA stuff on PCs on DOS, and getting 4 apparently identical machines to load the CDROM drivers and stuff and actually let you at the RAM was pretty hard
[19:50] <zmoylan-pi> after i installed win95 from floppies twice i learned to make cd drives work *everywhere* :-)
[19:51] <diddledan> lol
[19:51] <diddledan> yeah win95 floopy was evil
[19:51] <Nokaji> 42/44 discs iirc
[19:51] <zmoylan-pi> you can't make a parallel cd drive work in dos to install windows... /15 minutes later/ how??...
[19:52] <zmoylan-pi> *anything* to not install again from floppies
[19:53] <zmoylan-pi> whoops, the parallel cd drive was connected to a different computer and shared over peer to peer network
[19:53] <diddledan> I recall with win95 and 98 that if ever you made a hardware change (e.g. plugging a random USB device) it would ask you for the original windows disks/disc to get files off of - luckily our PC (branded by TINY) came with a folder called c:\w95flat which had a copy of the cdrom for such instances
[19:54] <zmoylan-pi> i copied cd to c:\restore iirc
[19:55] <diddledan> yeah - the trick was to boot off a floopy and format the hdd, copy the cd to a folder and run setup.exe from there rather than directly off the cd - that way it recognised the folder as the canonical source rather than constantly prompting you for the cdrom
[19:56] <diddledan> then of course there was getting audio working on early suse
[19:57] <diddledan> "recompile the kernel" they said.. "what's a kernel?" I thought and blindly tried doing it
[19:59] <diddledan> I think the reason it never worked, or even never crashed entirely, was because I don't believe looking back that I ever told the boot loader to load whatever random concoction I managed to cobble with the instructions
[19:59] <zmoylan-pi> i once had a 486 with sound, network and scanner plus extra parallel and serial ports plus second video card all /working/.  my boss wanted to borrow a card and opened screw at back and the lid popped off and fell onto the floor by the pressure of the cables connecting everything.  he took one look and said 'i'll wait for moulan to get back from lunch'
[20:01] <diddledan> surprise, surprise: cilla black died :-(
[20:02] <zmoylan-pi> that news is so 1300
[20:02] <diddledan> in that case then, I can probably post http://i.imgur.com/vnMMaCe.jpg without it being too soon?
[20:04] <foobarry> is there an app that..
[20:04] <foobarry> you tell it what tv programmes you like, and it tells you what you might like from this weeks upcoming freeview tv progrs?
[20:04] <zmoylan-pi> there's probably an app to tell you the app that does that is
[20:06] <diddledan> ok that folder has magically fixed itself
[20:06] <diddledan> i.e. it's gone
[20:06] <zmoylan-pi> /or/ it's copied itself back to where it started...
[23:10] <diddledan> popey: don't ever change the podcast music! :-p
[23:43] <diddledan> love the inclusion at the end of the podcast of "..and stop recording" :-p
[23:43] <daftykins> oops
[23:43] <diddledan> or variations