[06:45] <octoquad> morning all
[08:00] <Kilos> hi octoquad wb
[08:00] <Kilos> morning everyone
[08:24] <octoquad> howdy Kilos
[08:27] <Cryterion> Morning everyone
[08:28] <Kilos> hi Cryterion 
[11:39] <gremble> Good afternoon
[12:06] <mazal> Hi
[12:06] <gremble> hey mazal 
[13:03] <inetpro> good evening 
[13:03] <inetpro> Kilos: R750 for a universal car charger kit at incredible corruption 
[13:04] <inetpro> with all kinds of bits and pieces 
[13:27] <Kilos> hi inetpro 
[13:28] <Kilos> what is that universal car charger kit consist off
[13:28] <Kilos> of
[13:29] <Kilos> what you wanna charge
[13:36] <inetpro> Kilos: no worries, I'm not buying it 
[13:36] <Kilos> lol
[13:36] <inetpro> doesn't have everything I want anyway 
[13:36] <Kilos> what all do you want'
[13:36] <Kilos> where are you starting
[13:36] <inetpro> battery clamps 
[13:37] <Kilos> they come with jumper cables
[13:37] <inetpro> Was just saying for interest sake 
[13:37] <Kilos> or you get then at any battery shop
[13:37] <inetpro> 750 is madness 
[13:38] <Kilos> arent there any on that charger
[13:38] <Kilos> yes of course
[13:38] <inetpro> I'll make my own gadget 
[13:38] <Kilos> did you look at that charger
[13:38] <Kilos> the one for incubator
[13:38] <inetpro> not yet 
[13:38] <Kilos> ai!
[13:39] <Kilos> look man
[13:39] <Kilos> there might be clamps on it
[13:39] <Kilos> or on the incubator
[13:39] <Kilos> ai! ek sukkel
[13:39]  * inetpro not at home 
[13:39] <Kilos> oh ok
[13:59] <squish102> so far win 10 hasn't broken anything.. wow
[14:15] <inetpro> squish102: hmm, you got lost in the wrong channel? 
[14:16] <inetpro> this one is called Ubuntu ZA 
[14:16] <inetpro> :-$ 
[15:14] <Kilos> lol
[16:05] <inetpro> actually more like >:)
[16:06] <inetpro> or :-J
[16:06] <Cryterion> inetpro, saw a cheap universal car charger kit at a market for R150 today, didn't get it, but looked into the idea of making a variable one, 3-24VDC
[16:06] <inetpro> 3-24VDC ?
[16:07]  * inetpro will try to go to Communica during the week
[16:07] <Cryterion> that's the range
[16:07] <inetpro> not even sure where they are these days
[16:08] <Cryterion> squish102 are you around still?
[16:08] <Cryterion> inetpro: last time I dealt with them PTA and CPT
[16:08] <inetpro> it's about time I do some home made thingy for a change
[16:09] <Cryterion> then get a soldering iron and some solder :)
[16:09]  * inetpro likes their website
[16:09] <inetpro> I have a soldering iron hidden away somewhere in the house
[16:09] <Cryterion> I get most my stuff from mantech, specialised connectors from communica
[16:10] <Cryterion> make yourself a wooden workbench for electronics in your garage, make sure you have a pc at it, lots can be done there
[16:11] <inetpro> think I need the MP137S connector for the router http://www.communica.co.za/Catalog/Details/P0031509766
[16:11] <Cryterion> looks right to me
[16:11] <inetpro> just R5.24
[16:12] <Cryterion> std for 12dvc, most normal people only use the smaller ones for lower voltage
[16:13] <Cryterion> http://www.rt.com/usa/311383-windows-opt-out-privacy/ for those interested in reading
[16:13] <inetpro> btw, I checked the polarity and the middle is +, as expected 
[16:13] <Cryterion> win10 in all out invasive on privs by default, even by clause in there eul
[16:14] <Cryterion> kwl, that's normal
[16:16] <inetpro> yikes! 
[16:16]  * inetpro takes note to stay far away from win10
[16:19] <mazal> Cryterion, huh ?
[16:20] <Cryterion> mazal?
[16:20] <mazal> Elaborate please
[16:20] <mazal> invasive in what ways
[16:21] <Cryterion> link up there ^^^^, I'll look for the other one I've seen
[16:22] <Cryterion> mazal: http://www.rt.com/usa/311304-new-windows-privacy-issues/
[16:23] <Cryterion> “We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to.”
[16:23] <Cryterion> there's the clause
[16:23] <mazal> Reading it now thanx
[16:27] <mazal> Wow
[16:28] <mazal> And that is only what is known. I still say there is a huge hidden agenda with that OS. Something under the hood that nobody knows about
[16:29] <mazal> M$ has never and never will give anybody anything fro "free". There is big reasons why they are so desperate to get that junk on as many pc's as fast as possible.
[16:47] <Cryterion> The OS has become a Trojan being itself
[16:48] <Cryterion> or Virus if you prefer
[16:51] <Cryterion> Maybe it's own upgrade is/probably auto install without options! that theoretically makes it a virus
[17:04] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:05] <Kilos> freezing here
[17:05]  * Kilos thinks it is hot water bottle time
[17:15]  * Cryterion has the dog keeping his feet warm, so he's all good
[17:15] <Kilos> lol
[17:23] <Cryterion> He walked too much today, so he's passed out there too, doesn't even quim about my feet moving :)
[17:23] <Kilos> haha
[17:24] <Kilos> one good thing about win10 is it will push more peeps to linux
[17:26] <Cryterion> yep, once they've read the eula properly
[17:27] <Kilos> mazal  here something to strengthen you argument to get them to leave win
[17:27] <inetpro> Kilos: your incubator charger give 14.78V
[17:27] <Kilos> there you go then inetpro 
[17:27] <inetpro> but how do I prevent over charging?
[17:27] <Kilos> i must have put a cap in there across the output
[17:28] <Kilos> what do you want?
[17:28] <inetpro> just thinking ahead
[17:28] <Kilos> voltage thingie
[17:28] <inetpro> if I use it for charging the battery
[17:28] <Kilos> regulator
[17:28] <inetpro> after load shedding
[17:28] <Kilos> for a bettery its fine
[17:28] <Cryterion> inetpro, if the charger only gives out 14.78V you can only charge the battery to 14.78V
[17:28] <Kilos> battery
[17:29] <inetpro> so ot won't damage the battery if it stays connected?
[17:29] <inetpro> it*
[17:29] <Kilos> that box charged many batteries then got promoted to incubator duty
[17:30] <Kilos> did i fir gauges on it?
[17:30] <Kilos> fit
[17:30] <inetpro> yes
[17:30] <Cryterion> If you using a 12V sealed lead-acid battery, which should be charged to 13.8V, but I believe and with the new car batteries out (Deep Cycle ones) Audi is charging them 15V
[17:30] <Kilos> then you can watch as it charges, as the battery gets fuller amps will drop
[17:31] <inetpro> a gauge for A and one for V
[17:32] <Kilos> so if your battery is at 10v say
[17:32] <Cryterion> inetpro, you can check via voltage as well, easier than amps (Volt measurement is parallel - Amps in Series)
[17:32] <Kilos> amps might go to 5 or so but volts will show where battery is
[17:32] <Kilos> then as voltage rises amps will drop
[17:33] <inetpro> hmm... 
[17:33] <inetpro> and if I forget it connected when leaving the house?
[17:33] <Kilos> we spoke about a voltage regulator last night i think
[17:34] <Kilos> then you connect when you get home
[17:34] <Cryterion> Like I said last night inetpro, as an example, measure your battery (+-10V as flat) measure your source charger (14.78V), then connect the 2
[17:34] <Kilos> but that regulator thing
[17:34] <Cryterion> measure again and you
[17:34] <Kilos> will be for the router only
[17:34] <Cryterion> you'll prob get about 11volts
[17:34] <Kilos> the charger can go straight on battery
[17:36] <inetpro> Cryterion: I totally get that... just trying to understand how it works if you keep a home made charger like this connected to the battery and leaving it on charge (eg: even foregetting about it) for a lenghty period
[17:37] <Kilos> im sure it will be ok
[17:37] <Cryterion> if it is regulated to a certain voltage, it cannot go above that voltage
[17:38] <Cryterion> I.E. if you're connecting the 14.78V charger to a battery, it'll keep charging the battery until the battery has 14.78V
[17:38] <Kilos> ya
[17:38] <inetpro> ok
[17:39] <Cryterion> hence, charge controller and regulator are essentially the same thing in that situation
[17:39] <inetpro> ok
[17:40] <Kilos> and inetpro it is yours
[17:41] <Kilos> when eskom becomes reliable again hatch eggs with it
[17:43] <inetpro> haha... real hens are a much better at that game than any manmade gadget
[17:43] <Kilos> but if you are still worried you can fir a charge controller in between it and the battery
[17:43] <Kilos> i agree
[17:43] <Cryterion> keep it going rather, next 5 years at least
[17:44] <Kilos> but i was breeding eggs fom broiler stock hens and roosters
[17:44] <Kilos> they dont go broody
[17:44] <Kilos> hence the bantams moved in as well
[17:46] <Kilos> but i was selling around 20 chickens of 3kg about every week so needing the extra incubator  that could run off 12v
[17:47] <Cryterion> heating is difficult at 12V, I'd rather go 220AC there
[17:47] <Kilos> i was on a farm with no power
[17:47] <Cryterion> ah
[17:47] <Kilos> and the incubator is a 12v one
[17:47] <Kilos> made for chicks especially
[17:48] <Kilos> all made of polustyrene foam i think its called
[17:48] <Kilos> polystyrene
[17:49] <Cryterion> insulator
[17:49] <Kilos> but as with all incubators anything over a 50% hatch rate is acceptable
[17:50] <Kilos> the whole box is polustyrene for heat loss purposes i suppose
[17:50] <Cryterion> yep, polystyrene is an insulator
[17:50] <Kilos> i got same results as from the 220 wooden one i used when i had power
[17:50] <Cryterion> wood is as well
[17:53] <inetpro> Kilos: so what is the official name for flex cable?
[17:53] <inetpro> wire
[17:53] <Kilos> twin flex
[17:54]  * inetpro trying to find it at www.communica.co.za
[17:54] <Kilos> do you have a bedside lamp
[17:54] <Kilos> ai!
[17:54] <Kilos> im sure even checkers has it
[17:54]  * inetpro needs to make a list of all required items
[17:54] <Kilos> and all hardware shops
[17:55] <inetpro> why not get everything at communica if I'm gonna go there anyway?
[17:56] <Kilos> you can
[17:58] <Kilos> 8i still wish Guest20640 would go lurk elsewhere
[17:58] <inetpro> tell me, for interest sake, do you loose 12V DC power over distance of say 100m?
[17:58] <Kilos> no spies needed here
[17:58] <Kilos> not really
[17:59] <Kilos> but why 100 metre
[17:59] <Kilos> whew
[17:59] <inetpro> no just wondering
[18:00] <Kilos> if you short the 2 at the end of the 100m it will still melt the flex
[18:00] <Kilos> there should be some loss but not enough to stop a router working
[18:01] <inetpro> http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/AC-DC-voltage-drop-cable-distance-s/846.htm
[18:02] <Cryterion> inetpro: you lose over cable resistance, 100m is minimal
[18:02] <Kilos> i dont understand all that
[18:04] <Kilos> i dont think you will get volt drop but the further you go the less current you will be able to draw
[18:04] <Kilos> i think
[18:04] <inetpro> yep, looks like it 
[18:05] <Cryterion> cable resistance comes more into count for low (very low) signals. A 0.5mm2 cable carrying 12VDC power over 100m would prob drop to about 11.9V
[18:05] <Cryterion> at most
[18:05] <Kilos> ok ty
[18:05] <inetpro> AWG = American Wire Gauge 
[18:05] <Kilos> oh
[18:05] <Cryterion> 0.5mm2 cable can handle as a rule of thumb 5A
[18:06] <Cryterion> 1mm2 10A, 2.5mm2 25A
[18:06] <inetpro> Kilos: cable size is specified in AWG which stands for "American Wire Gauge"
[18:06] <Cryterion> inetpro: yes on the awg
[18:06] <Cryterion> rather work in mm2 for power
[18:07] <Kilos> i have always just done things not worried about  the specs
[18:07] <Cryterion> especially distance, this is SA, not US
[18:07] <Kilos> that was for geeks
[18:08] <Kilos> i, only hu,am
[18:08] <Kilos> human
[18:08] <inetpro> :-)
[18:08] <Kilos> even getting bad at that
[18:08] <Kilos> hehe
[18:09] <Kilos> one good thing from all this
[18:09] <Kilos> no loadshedding prob for our chair
[18:10]  * Kilos smiles
[18:10] <inetpro> Wire Resistance and Voltage Drop Calculator: http://www.bulkwire.com/wireresistance.asp
[18:11] <inetpro> very interesting
[18:11] <Kilos> lol
[18:11] <Cryterion> V=IR 
[18:11] <Kilos> maybe next ill start a #ubuntu-world channel
[18:12] <Kilos> v=i/r
[18:12] <Cryterion> nope V=IR
[18:12] <Kilos> oh my
[18:12] <Cryterion> I = V/R
[18:12] <Cryterion> R = V/I
[18:12] <Cryterion> W = VI
[18:12] <Kilos> i even forget what i is for
[18:13] <Kilos> volts amps resistance
[18:13] <Cryterion> I is current Amps
[18:13] <Kilos> ty
[18:13] <Cryterion> W should be P = watts
[18:13] <Kilos> volts x amps is watts
[18:14] <Cryterion> yep, same as the VA spec
[18:14] <Cryterion> kVA = kW
[18:15] <Kilos> no place to remember more stuff
[18:15] <Cryterion> lol
[18:15] <Kilos> no place even for vim or python
[18:15] <Cryterion> std memory recalls for me now 
[18:16] <Cryterion> was surprised this morning, my highest failed sshd login attempts from any ip address was 13
[18:16] <Kilos> ill just stay as a greeter bot , much easier
[18:16] <inetpro> so the lower the AWG = the thicker the wire?
[18:17] <Cryterion> no, thinner I think
[18:17] <Kilos> the thicker the wire the less loss there is
[18:17] <Kilos> and more current carrying capability
[18:18] <Kilos> thats why cable from battery to starter is so thick
[18:18] <Cryterion> cause starter can draw 50A
[18:19] <inetpro> The number associated with AWG indicates the "thickness" of cable used.  As the number is reduced, cable thickness increases.
[18:19] <Kilos> starter motor chews power
[18:19] <Cryterion> 50x12 = 600Watts
[18:20] <Cryterion> 600watts x 1 hr = 36kwh power if you want to compare the energy usage to your electricity bill
[18:20] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:21] <Cryterion> think I got it wrong 3.6kwh
[18:21] <Kilos> wow only us 3 here tonight
[18:22]  * inetpro trying to understand why a thinner cable is recommended with a shorter distance
[18:22] <Kilos> hi superfly 
[18:22] <Kilos> to save costs
[18:22] <Kilos> and easier to work with
[18:22] <Cryterion> I think the 50 is wrong, starter draws a sh*t load more as it can flatten an 80AH in 10mins
[18:23] <Kilos> starters draw over 50 amp
[18:23] <Cryterion> more like 500A
[18:23] <Kilos> up to 100 or more with large engines
[18:23] <Cryterion> 80AH battery can supply 80A for 1 hours
[18:23] <Kilos> the prob being it s for a second or so
[18:24] <Cryterion> 500A draw will flatten a fully charged battery after 10mins
[18:24] <Kilos> and most likely bend some plates
[18:24] <Cryterion> yep
[18:25] <Cryterion> so my 36kwh turns to 360kwh
[18:25] <kulelu88> Does anybody know how to install node.js via the PPA on ubuntu?
[18:26] <inetpro> kulelu88: what PPA?
[18:26] <kulelu88> https://nodesource.com/blog/nodejs-v012-iojs-and-the-nodesource-linux-repositories
[18:26] <kulelu88> I'm wondering if there are any dependencies
[18:26] <Cryterion> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16302436/install-node-js-on-ubuntu-12-10
[18:26] <Cryterion> try there!
[18:27] <Cryterion> looks like it needs python
[18:27] <Kilos> oh there was a command for that
[18:27] <Kilos> apy-depends i think
[18:27] <Kilos> apt-depends
[18:28] <inetpro> original PPA is now deprecated and you should have already migrated to the new repository for Ubuntu
[18:30] <kulelu88> yeah, nodesource is the new PPA. chris lea is deprecated
[18:31] <superfly> kulelu88: I haven't needed to install NodeJS from a PPA. which version of Ubuntu are you using?
[18:32] <Cryterion> inetpro and Kilos sending you an xls file I made, will help you guys with the offgrid thing
[18:32] <squish102> Cryterion: yip i'm around
[18:33] <kulelu88> superfly: 14.04. Ubuntus version is 0.10 and the latest stable is 0.12
[18:33] <Cryterion> Heya
[18:33] <Cryterion> You want it as well?
[18:33] <Cryterion> oops wrong convo
[18:33] <Kilos> i missed the accept thing
[18:34] <Cryterion> squish102, can you get to links above, about windows 10
[18:34] <Kilos> failed
[18:34] <inetpro> Cryterion: email?
[18:34] <Kilos> where is the accept thing
[18:34] <Cryterion> can send via it
[18:34] <superfly> kulelu88: ah. I guess then the question is, "do you really need 0.12?"
[18:35] <squish102> Cryterion: I don't see links
[18:35] <Kilos> why dcc not working
[18:35] <Kilos> sigh
[18:36] <Kilos> Cryterion  try again i found it
[18:39] <Cryterion> http://www.rt.com/usa/311383-windows-opt-out-privacy/
[18:39] <kulelu88> superfly: I'm not sure. I just need a JS interpreter to run these 2 CLI JS files (I am working on another coding piece that is similar to the Python 1 you helped me with a while ago)
[18:39] <Cryterion> http://www.rt.com/usa/311304-new-windows-privacy-issues/
[18:39] <squish102> ahh thanks, will check it out
[18:39] <kulelu88> plus, I use docker as my venv, so it gets complicated to install shit 
[18:39] <Cryterion> squish102
[18:40] <Cryterion> ah you got them
[18:40] <superfly> kulelu88: we're using Docker at work, and NodeJS, on 14.04, without problems. Just make sure you install the "nodejs-legacy" package too
[18:40] <squish102> google knows SOOOOOOO much about me, i probably don't mind sharing with microsoft
[18:42] <Kilos> feed the snake till its big enough to swallow you
[18:42] <kulelu88> superfly: do you use nginx/apache as a containerized webserver also? I was trying to assist some guy yday who wanted to create a micro-service setup and reverse-proxy nginx, but the tuts he found didn't have nginx as a container
[18:42]  * Cryterion refuses to use google
[18:42] <kulelu88> if you guys know of a secure email provider, I'd like to migrate away from gmail. 
[18:42] <superfly> kulelu88: I rolled my own on Linode in the UK.
[18:43] <Cryterion> build you own, not secure if not
[18:43] <superfly> (email)
[18:43] <superfly> kulelu88: no, our nginx actually lives on the physical box, due to how we use our containers
[18:43] <kulelu88> superfly: can I piggyback on your server? UK is not secure though . switzerland maybe, not UK
[18:44]  * Cryterion is still waiting for telkom to pull there fingers out
[18:45] <Cryterion> superfly, yes email, not secure unless you control the entire server, IE your own hardware
[18:45] <squish102> i use so many google services, i don't know what i would do without it
[18:45] <squish102> just got notification in google now, that my package arrived at my front door
[18:46] <kulelu88> squish102: do you believe in "cloud" ?
[18:46] <Cryterion> I was always reluctant to sign up to them, and still manage without it
[18:46] <squish102> i'm more of the opinion, ifit adds value tome, track me all you want
[18:46] <Cryterion> I believe it's there, don't want it though
[18:47] <kulelu88> privacy debates never end well on IRC
[18:47] <squish102> same way as making notes/lists and then tell me when i go close to the shop
[18:47] <kulelu88> a regtige naai was arguing with me on the node channel about privacy issues
[18:48] <Cryterion> yeah well, I prefer my privacy, can only offer help to those that want out
[18:48] <Kilos> my goed is mu goed
[18:48] <Kilos> my 
[18:48]  * Cryterion agrees
[18:49] <kulelu88> alright, so node 0.10 it is
[18:50] <kulelu88> superfly: do you have a dockerfile for node.js I can borrow?
[18:53] <superfly> kulelu88: actually, I was using a docker image which is based on Ubuntu
[18:53] <superfly> have you checked dockerhub?
[18:53] <superfly> and I wasn't using nodejs for my app, just for my build tools
[18:53] <kulelu88> yeah, I'm guessing the install is greatly simplified with the ubuntu version. Here is my current dockerfile:
[18:54] <kulelu88> https://pastee.org/cm566
[19:00] <superfly> kulelu88: use phusion/baseimage -- it's built off ubuntu 14.04, but "done correctly"
[19:00] <superfly> kulelu88: also, you might want to see if there's already a dockerimage with NodeJS at registry.hub.docker.com
[19:01] <kulelu88> superfly: I prefer rolling my own, as I use an ubuntu base and split all my envs into distinct environments (currently I have quite a few python ones)
[19:02] <superfly> https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/phusion/baseimage/
[19:04] <kulelu88> wow, I never knew about it. I will swap ubuntu out with it when I have time to do so
[19:05] <superfly> I only found out about it because one of the pre-built docker files I use uses it.
[19:06] <kulelu88> how do you call to it? FROM baseimage? 
[19:07] <superfly> FROM phusion/baseimage
[19:09] <kulelu88> wow,  I just learnt something important about my docker usage. ftw!! thank superfly 
[19:09] <superfly> You're welcome
[19:12] <superfly> kulelu88: at work we've moved from VMs to Docker containers
[19:12] <superfly> we also moved from Jenkins to Go-CD
[19:12] <kulelu88> jenkins is the automated build tool right??
[19:12] <squish102> superfly: what kind of VM's?
[19:13] <superfly> squish102: Initially VirtualBox, but also KVM
[19:13] <superfly> kulelu88: er, continuous integration
[19:13] <superfly> kulelu88: not quite the same, but yes, it can also do automated builds
[19:13] <squish102> guess i need to go figure out docker stuff now :(
[19:13] <kulelu88> superfly: can you explain what is the purpose of using virtualization if say, I am already just using a VPS?
[19:14] <mazal> Night everyone , sleep well
[19:14] <superfly> kulelu88: a VPS is already virtualised
[19:14] <superfly> you don't want to use kvm or xen in a VPS
[19:14] <kulelu88> so virtualization only makes sense when you are running your own actual hardware? 
[19:14] <superfly> then you definitely want to use Docker instead
[19:14] <superfly> yes
[19:14] <superfly> and even then, maybe not
[19:15] <kulelu88> I guess I've never had the opportunity to see server-scaling and a proper use-case for docker in production
[19:15] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:16] <Kilos> see you tomorrow
[19:16] <squish102> hmm, so what type of workload runs in docker?
[19:17] <kulelu88> squish102: it is a lightweight version of running something like KVM
[19:17] <squish102> actually maybe a different question for all the smart people here.
[19:18] <superfly> I'll answer all y'all now, just gotta take care of a wriggling baby right now
[19:18] <squish102> ihave old thin terminals with IE 6 and old RDP client that need to connect to newer web sites. Anyone know what I can do to proxy the traffic somehow?
[19:19] <superfly> squish102: you do realise you're on a Linux channel, right?
[19:19] <squish102> today I run them through a microsoft terminal server farm that autoscales up to about27 honking big servers
[19:19] <squish102> superfly: hoping linux had an answer
[19:20] <superfly> squish102: linux IS the answer :-P
[19:20] <superfly> squish102: when you say, "proxy", what do you mean?
[19:21] <kulelu88> I saw "IE6" and my brain shut off
[19:21] <squish102> so today, then se the old RDP client to connect to theterminal server and
[19:21] <superfly> kulelu88, squish102: you'd use virtualisation when you have multiple different operating systems, and you don't need an entire OS-in-a-box. For most of what I'm doing, VMs are not really necessary
[19:22] <squish102> then log into AD, which opens an IE 11 browser that then connects to the sites
[19:22] <superfly> kulelu88, squish102: You'd use docker for when you have specific requirements to run a particular app on the same OS as your host.
[19:22] <squish102> i think irun about 50 terminal sessions per machine
[19:23] <kulelu88> squish102: are you a windows sysadmin?
[19:23] <squish102> nope
[19:23] <squish102> more of a solution architect
[19:24] <superfly> kulelu88, squish102: With docker, you can create one image, and then spin up multiple containers using that single image. With VMs, depending on the tech, you need to create a new VM for every instance you want running
[19:24] <kulelu88> squish102: is your company non-IT and in another market?
[19:25] <squish102> so if all I needed was abrowser in an image, would docker work?
[19:25] <squish102> retail company, with old thin clients that boot XP
[19:25] <superfly> squish102: possibly. Not sure how it work work with Windows, I only have Linux experience.
[19:25] <kulelu88> squish102: its somewhat difficult to put GUI apps into containers (images are static, containers are what are used)
[19:25] <superfly> Last time I used Windows was over 10 years ago.
[19:25] <squish102> and it would cost too much to replace thin clients in the stores
[19:26] <kulelu88> docker doesn't work natively on windows. it is, afterall, based on a kernel tool 
[19:26] <squish102> ok
[19:26] <superfly> kulelu88: I think there's a version that will run on Windows, but yeah, not sure how it works.
[19:26] <kulelu88> squish102: you can pay superfly and I and we will swap out your windows XP with linux thin clients
[19:27] <kulelu88> superfly: you need to use virtualbox and RancherOS (AFAIK)
[19:27] <squish102> i would need about 13000 of them :P
[19:27] <kulelu88> squish102: are all 13000 thin clients connected to a network?
[19:27] <superfly> RancherOS? Never heard of it.
[19:28] <squish102> they not all connected all the time... but lots of them
[19:28] <kulelu88> superfly: it is similar to phusion in that it is built for docker, but it is stripped down to about 20MB to act as the "host" OS that you install docker on top of
[19:28] <squish102> they connect to amazon aws
[19:28] <superfly> ah
[19:29] <kulelu88> squish102: do these 13000 terminals just need a browser to work? You don't need docker for them. you just need a network management tool and you can keep them updated through a main server
[19:30] <squish102> they so limited, I cannot update them... therefor the need to have them "proxy" through the MS terminal server farm
[19:30] <kulelu88> squish102: with a central server, updates are sent from the server to the clients. 
[19:31] <kulelu88> XP is not even supported anymore D:
[19:31] <squish102> there is no space on the thin clients for any updates
[19:31] <squish102> yes, but to replace them would cost a whole lot of money
[19:31] <kulelu88> squish102: you'll first have to wipe them of XP and then install your open source OS
[19:32] <kulelu88> I think FNB run exclusively on ubuntu now
[19:33] <squish102> yip, if icould only figureout how todothat remotely
[19:34] <squish102> and this surface tablet keyboard sucks
[19:34] <kulelu88> squish102: that is what I am telling you :P you can do it remotely
[19:35] <squish102> i guess it all depends on the management software. don't even know the chips in them
[19:35] <kulelu88> let me show you what you can use
[19:36] <squish102> based on the fact that they have no space to install anything on
[19:36] <kulelu88> http://saltstack.com/community/
[19:36] <kulelu88> you'll at least need to investigate what hardware is on them
[19:36] <squish102> I cannot get an agent running on them to even monitor them
[19:36] <kulelu88> if they can hold XP on them, they can hold most ubuntu installs
[19:37] <squish102> they run XP embedded, afaik
[19:37] <squish102> ok will check it out thanks
[19:38] <kulelu88> they are thin clients, meaning they are using somewhat slow processors/motherboards to run windows XP that uses only 1 browser window (and can't do anything else) ?
[19:38] <squish102> wyse terminals bought about 12 years ago
[19:38] <squish102> maybe 15 years ago
[19:39] <kulelu88> does your company want to upgrade them or is it just something you thought about?
[19:39] <squish102> they want asolution to running 25-35 servers in amazon, only to do this
[19:40] <squish102> i told them replace thehardware with ipads
[19:40] <kulelu88> what is happening in amazon? are you rendering something via a webpage to the clients via amazon?
[19:41] <squish102> no, irun MS terminal servers
[19:41] <squish102> on each one, that handles about 50 RDP sessions from the thin clients
[19:41] <kulelu88> it sounds like someone sold your company 1 weird systems solution
[19:42] <kulelu88> aah now I get it
[19:42] <squish102> well it worked just great until the websites started blocking ie 6
[19:43] <kulelu88> what exactly do these thin terminals do? remote desktop sessions consume a lot of ram afaik
[19:43] <squish102> if i could somehow proxy IE6/old rdp client, through something other than MS terminal servers, they would behappy
[19:44] <squish102> they boot up thin client, it opens RDP session with amazon aws, they log in, it starts IE 11 browser and points towebsite
[19:44] <kulelu88> you won't find luck with windows doing that. maybe try MS server 2003 
[19:45] <squish102> i don't think rdp client uses that much
[19:45] <kulelu88> squish102: that sounds like an awful way to do something much simpler like using SSH instead
[19:45] <superfly> heh. so docker on windows just uses a very lightweight Linux VM, and you can only create and run Linux-based images
[19:46] <squish102> kulelu88: not sure how ssh helps me
[19:47] <kulelu88> squish102: SSH is equivalent to RDP in that you can login to the network using it
[19:47] <kulelu88> it is a completely different architecture, albeit cheaper than replacing all systems with ipads
[19:48] <squish102> in the store they need to use a website that only accepts IE 11. The only tools they have is an IE 6 and rdp client
[19:49] <kulelu88> there's your first problem. a website that only supports IE11
[19:49] <squish102> or should isay, doesn't accept IE 6
[19:49] <squish102> anymore
[19:49] <kulelu88> second issue is outdated terminals that cannot be updated centrally and use IE6, which is a dangerous browser (many security holes)
[19:50] <squish102> yes, so now we don't have asecurity problem, because it uses rdp
[19:51] <kulelu88> squish102: it is a problem
[19:51] <kulelu88> Even if you use RDP to access the network, IE6 is a vulnerability
[19:51] <squish102> i was maybe thinking of using rdp to linux and have firefox or chrome sessions foreach store
[19:51] <kulelu88> it's like saying your house is built of thick concrete but your fence is using thin barbwire
[19:53] <squish102> ithink those thin terminals areon a secure private vlan to amazon and go over aprivate mpls network
[19:53] <squish102> but you right
[19:53] <superfly> squish102: so, I'm confused... this website, it's outside of your control?
[19:54] <squish102> if someone got onto the thin terminals, they could get some store sales numbers etc
[19:54] <squish102> yes
[19:54] <squish102> itisfor hiring new people
[19:54] <kulelu88> squish102: with the SSH architecture, you just need a lightweight linux with an updated browser. the thin clients then SSH into the network and they then use the browser via a proxy plugin to access the private website
[19:54] <squish102> this keyboard is so screwed up
[19:55] <kulelu88> superfly: I also don't quite understand how their architecture works
[19:55] <superfly> yeah, it seems overly convoluted.
[19:55] <superfly> squish102: you don't work for Ackermans, do you?
[19:56]  * superfly worked there many years ago, and wouldn't put it past them to do something like this
[19:56] <squish102> it is person in store, stilling infront of a 15 year old thin terminal, with keyboard and monitor. Switch it on, it boots up, rdp client starts automatically and connects to amazon aws MS terminal server "farm", logs in and goes straight to a web browser (new one) that points toawebsite outsideof my control
[19:56] <kulelu88> I think I know what type of company sold them this solution
[19:57] <kulelu88> there are multiple points of failure I see there
[19:57] <squish102> does that help?
[19:58] <kulelu88> squish102: yeah it does
[19:58] <squish102> best solution is figureout ifI can change the OS on the thin terminals
[19:58] <squish102> or replace all of them
[19:59] <kulelu88> squish102: a new solution can be done, but the first important point is the end result... why does the website only work on ie11 in 2015?
[19:59] <squish102> sorry, not IE 11 but anything newer than ie 6
[19:59] <squish102> something to do with TTL orsomething
[20:00] <squish102> TLS
[20:00] <squish102> cannot remember
[20:00] <kulelu88> squish102: why do you need RDP? is the website resource-hungry that a thin client couldn't process it? 
[20:00] <superfly> kulelu88: he needs RDP because the site doesn't work on IE6
[20:00] <squish102> yes
[20:00] <kulelu88> aah
[20:00] <kulelu88> wow
[20:01]  * kulelu88 scratches head
[20:01] <squish102> i've been doing that for years
[20:01] <kulelu88> if you have a decent budget, you can update all the software to use open source at a fraction of replacing hardware
[20:01] <squish102> well only 6 minutes left on my battery
[20:02] <kulelu88> I kind of feel bad for you for being in charge of that clusterfuck squish102 
[20:03] <squish102> yes, they keep wanting me to drop the amazon aws price which runs aabout R10 mil ayear
[20:03] <kulelu88> wat the actual fuck ...
[20:03] <kulelu88> 10 million :/
[20:03] <superfly> WAT?!
[20:04] <superfly> It's all those Windows servers
[20:04] <kulelu88> I think I just peed myself and shat myself and died inside 
[20:04] <kulelu88> squish102: step number 1, get the CTO fired
[20:04] <squish102> that is what the solution costs..but it will cost approx R100 mil to replace terminals
[20:04] <kulelu88> hows that AWS budget superfly :D :D :D :"""""""D
[20:05] <superfly> kulelu88: I know, right?!
[20:05] <superfly> wow, I could do so much for R10mil a year
[20:05] <squish102> our sharepoint AWS environment isanother R10 mil btw
[20:05] <kulelu88> squish102: your AWS budget can be reduced to about R2-4 million a year
[20:06] <superfly> squish102: dude, I have no words...
[20:06] <kulelu88> wait this holy second
[20:06] <squish102> and we have not"embraced" the cloud yet, but aremoving there :P
[20:06] <kulelu88> you guys spend 20 million rand on AWS>??????????????????????
[20:07] <squish102> run a couple hundred servers in amazon aws, 24x7 and see what it costs :P
[20:07] <kulelu88> wow, I could literally save you guys 6 million a year 
[20:08] <kulelu88> or at the very least, help you migrate away from MS servers, which cost how much? R100 grand a year?
[20:08] <superfly> squish102: what are they using sharepoint for?
[20:09] <kulelu88> superfly: time to quit our jobs and become devops consultants. this is daylight robbery for these poor customers
[20:09] <superfly> kulelu88: no thanks, I don't want to quite NN, I don't have to deal with IT managers
[20:09] <superfly> *quit
[20:09] <kulelu88> hahaha
[20:10] <superfly> who all think that Microsoft is the bee's knees
[20:10] <kulelu88> imagine you tell the CTO, "Okay so I am going to eliminate the need for RDP, which should halve your aws usage, because you won't need to run remote desktops on the cloud" . and then he says "uhmm, what is SSH?"
[20:11] <kulelu88> RDP on the cloud is like paying a 24x7 rental for running a PC, and they still have the cost of running an actual PC to access the virtual PC
[20:11] <superfly> squish102: where do the terminal servers live? also AWS?
[20:12] <superfly> (where do the thin clients boot from?)
[20:12] <kulelu88> he's probably dc by now superfly 
[20:13] <kulelu88> 6% battery
[20:13] <superfly> yeah
[20:13] <kulelu88> superfly: is this why SA is strong on C# and the MS stack ? because IT managers don't know better?
[20:13] <superfly> kulelu88: yes
[20:14] <superfly> because "open source is free, and you get what you pay for"
[20:15] <kulelu88> wow man, I never knew how inefficient the IT ecosystem is in SA
[20:18] <superfly> it's not just RSA, it's worldwide
[20:19] <superfly> less so these days, especially with the cloud
[20:19] <superfly> but still oh-so-strong
[20:21] <squish102> sorry, tablet died. now trying from phone
[20:21] <squish102> but cant read screen well
[20:24] <superfly> squish102: I was just wondering what you use sharepoint for?
[20:24] <superfly> squish102:  I've seen people use Drupal for the same sort of thing (in fact, I know some places threw sharepoint out in favour of Drupal)
[20:24] <squish102> ssh client on phone to weechat session no good
[20:28] <superfly> oush
[20:28] <superfly> *ouch
[20:55] <kulelu88> squish102: your company desperately needs to embrace open source
[20:56] <superfly> or at least sane IT management
[20:57] <kulelu88> well I'm just going to put it out there. I am available for devops consulting through contracting @ squish102 :D
[21:00] <kulelu88> superfly: do you watch tv/series?
[21:02] <superfly> kulelu88: negative
[21:03] <kulelu88> was going to ask you about Mr Robot
[21:32] <squish102> kulelu88: yes, they do. most we do is run a copy jboss
[21:32] <squish102> although, do you call running oracle linux open source?
[21:33] <superfly> I wouldn't
[21:37] <squish102> it is free
[21:38] <squish102> and the source is open ;/
[21:39] <squish102> superfly: i dunno, content management, apps mostly on sharepoint
[21:40] <squish102> every department has a site, and they put their files there.. also apps written that tie into databases
[21:40] <squish102> not very close to what it is as i try not use it. also it is the company portal
[22:03] <kulelu88> something tells me this is a listed company squish102 
[22:49] <squish102> kulelu88: yes, and as you can probably see, a big company 
[22:50] <squish102> with big problems
[22:51] <kulelu88> that would explain the R20M hosting budget. They must be making billions in revenue with shoddy IT systems
[22:51] <kulelu88> if this were America, some security-researcher would hack you guys to prove it :D
[23:07] <squish102> yes, hope to hit R220B in revenue and pretty sure the chinese are already in our network
[23:13] <kulelu88> see my message squish102