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bdmurray!dmb ping15:01
bdmurraymicahg_work: Is there a command to ping the whole DMB?15:02
ubottucyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping15:02
stgrabersprinting this week here, so I'm only vaguely kinda around, hopefully you guys can do the meeting without me15:03
bdmurraystgraber: it doesn't look like there is anything to vote on, unless Unit193 shows up.15:04
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Aug  3 15:06:00 2015 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.15:06
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick15:06
bdmurray#topic Review of previous action items15:06
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
bdmurraymicahg_work: How is getting Noskcaj feeback going?15:07
micahg_worknot great, I haven't had time to compile, if someone else has time, I'd be willing to hand that off, otherwise, I will try again to get it done over the next 2 weeks15:07
bdmurraymicahg_work: Could you elaborate on what is required so people know what they are getting into?15:08
micahg_workbasically a summary of what the reasons were why the DMB wasn't in favor of granting Xubuntu packageset and MOTU status as well as requesting and compiling any additional information from DMB members on the subject15:09
bdmurrayokay, is there anybody else who could take that on?15:09
micahg_work*in favor at this time15:09
micahg_workbdmurray, you suggested starting a pad where can can collaborate on a response, would you be up for doing that and DMB members can add things at their leisure15:11
micahg_work*where we cab15:11
Laneyyou'll have to chivvy people along15:12
micahg_workthen, I or someone else can compile the responses from the ML as well and hopefully once the ball is rolling, we'll be able to take care of this quickly15:12
bdmurray#action bdmurray to setup a pad for the dmb to collaborate on response for noskcaj15:12
meetingologyACTION: bdmurray to setup a pad for the dmb to collaborate on response for noskcaj15:12
micahg_workyes, I know, but if the pad is there, it's easier to do that15:12
LaneyI can almost guarantee nobody will do anything proactively15:12
Laney:( :( :(15:12
Laney): ): ):15:12
bdmurrayLaney: Do you think that is something we should discuss?15:13
Laneynot really15:14
bdmurrayokay, moving on then15:15
bdmurraymicahg_work: What about the election results, is that taken care of?15:15
micahg_work#link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2015-July/002132.html15:16
micahg_workonly thing I think is left is team changes, TB seems not to have responded15:16
LaneyI think JFDI15:17
micahg_worksure, you poked stgraber already :)15:17
Laneysure did15:17
Laneyone thing that comes to mind is...15:17
Laneywe have 0 onboarding process15:17
LaneyI wonder if we could do something there15:17
Laneyor should..?15:18
micahg_workwell, there are the DMB wiki pages, we try to document the processes15:18
cyphermoxdepends, approvals don't typically span multiple weeks15:18
micahg_workwere you referring to DMB members of developers?15:18
cyphermoxie. I like to believe getting Noskca feedback is an exception rather than the rule15:18
cyphermoxI read this as onboarding a new member in the DMB15:19
Laneysure we could say "go away and read all of the public documentation"15:20
Laneybut there are some things which might not be in there15:20
Laneylike... useful resources to check on someone's history (sponsorship tracker thing)15:20
Laneyhow to manipulate packagesets (edit-acl)15:20
Laneywhere the code to update the auto-packagesets is15:21
cyphermoxyes, that could certainly help15:21
Laneyumm, how we vote to +4 and if it doesn't reach that then defer to email15:21
Laneywhen you can JFDI a packageset change (if it matches the description)15:21
bdmurrayand last week or so there was discussion about which team to add a per package uploader to so they could target bugs to a release and vote for the dmb15:22
Laneywhich teams to add new devs to15:22
micahg_workmanaging seed based packagesets and what constitutes a reason not to update15:22
Laneyplenty of stuff15:22
Laneyhow to do a vote for a new member15:22
micahg_workmaybe we should create a wiki page of wishlist wiki pages15:23
LaneyI was just thinking DMB/New unless it becomes too mad15:23
bdmurrayLaney: that sounds good to me15:24
Laneythe DD-PPU thing15:24
LaneyI think we've grown a lot of mostly opaque process15:24
Laneyanyway, action me to start it15:24
bdmurray#action Laney to start an onboarding page for new dmb members15:25
meetingologyACTION: Laney to start an onboarding page for new dmb members15:25
bdmurrayit looked like the dmb-ping was already updated, correct?15:25
Laney/query ubottu !dmb-ping15:26
micahg_workyes, Unit193 took care of that for us15:26
Laneydell guy is here, sorry15:26
bdmurrayand corey bryant is in the ubuntu-server-dev team now, so that's done.15:27
LaneyI'll be back in however long it takes to change a keyboard15:27
Laneyplease discuss the thing, I think it's quite clear but I'll help later if I can15:27
micahg_workI think I missed an action item which Laney took care of, updating the input-methods packageset, I'm not sure if mozc made it in, I saw the l-s upload15:28
micahg_workI'll take care of that later if it hasn't been15:28
bdmurray#action micahg_work to confim if mozc packageset change happened.15:28
meetingologyACTION: micahg_work to confim if mozc packageset change happened.15:28
bdmurray#topic PPU/Packageset uploader applications and membership by default15:29
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PPU/Packageset uploader applications and membership by default
bdmurrayWhat's this about?15:29
cyphermoxwhat teams we put people into in the PPU case, I believe15:30
bdmurraymicahg_work: So I'd added teward to ubuntu-dev and you indicated that wasn't what we should do?15:31
micahg_workso, I'm not sure how it started, there was a question about teward not being in ubuntu-dev, in previous cases where people had ubuntu membership + PPU, we've added them to ubuntu-dev, I'm not sure if that was the impetus for the discussion or something else, I called this practice into question as it didn't seem appropriate as dev membership grants voting rights for dev related things which should require some level of active involvement15:31
micahg_work in the Ubuntu dev community15:31
micahg_work*which IMHO15:32
tewardmicahg_work: this was started by bdmurray's bot tagging a debdiff as 'patch' and subscribing sponsors for an nginx bug15:34
tewardi have PPU rights for nginx, so sponsorship subscription was irrelevant and unnecessary at the time15:34
tewardi pinged bdmurray to request removal of sponsors on that bug as it wasn't one that needed the sponsors' attention15:34
micahg_workalso, the only time there's a difference is PPU for individual packages as packagesets and other dev group membership implicitly grant ubuntu-dev membership15:34
tewardthat's the beginning of the case in question.15:34
bdmurrayteward: thanks for the reminder. micahg_work did you have more to add?15:35
tewardI didn't bother tracking much of the specifics after that time.15:35
tewardbdmurray: you're welcome.  *returns to lurk mode*15:35
micahg_workah, then this is my fault, I never made an icon for ubuntu-uploaders15:35
micahg_workthat would have solved that particular issue15:35
bdmurrayhow's that?15:36
micahg_workoh, wait15:36
micahg_workwell, it would help anyone who's using that LP addon15:36
bdmurraymicahg_work: this is a launchpadlib script15:37
micahg_workI'm not sure if the sponsoring page actually needs to be updated to recognize ubuntu-uploaders or if it just uses the archive ACLs15:37
micahg_workI think the point or order on which team by default should be discussed still regardless15:38
bdmurraymicahg_work: so this person is an ubuntu-member and has PPU - should they be added to ubuntu-dev?15:39
micahg_workthat's another point of contention I suppose, we've done it in the past, I don't personally agree with it15:40
micahg_workI think the bar of significant and sustained dev contribution makes sense for having dev voting rights vs significant and sustained Ubuntu contribution15:40
bdmurrayAnd somebody with PPU doesn't have significant and sustained dev contribution?15:41
micahg_worknot necessarily, that's why we split out uploaders from dev, I thought the idea was the lower that bar (not the technical bar of understanding packaging) to make package maintenance more accessible for people that care about specific packages that might not need to be updated frequently15:42
micahg_workwell, that's how I remember it at lesat15:43
micahg_workif people were contributing significantly, they were welcome to apply for dev membership at the same time, but I was under the impression that it was not the default for PPU (only)15:44
bdmurrayokay, is this something we can work on as a part of the onboarding documentation?15:44
bdmurraymicahg_work: do you recall about what year these discussions took place?15:45
micahg_workI think it was within the last 2 years, I can find the references a bit later15:45
micahg_workactually, uploaders team was created 2014-01-13 (thank you Launchpad)15:46
micahg_workso, would be right around then15:46
bdmurrayOkay, I'll look into the discussion around that then and send an email to the team. Does that sound good?15:47
micahg_workyep, we should probably clarify (and maybe re-announce) the policy once we decide on it, I think we were expecting many more people applying for PPU15:47
bdmurray#action bdmurray to find discussion about PPU and ubuntu-dev membership15:49
meetingologyACTION: bdmurray to find discussion about PPU and ubuntu-dev membership15:49
xnoxmy understanding that PPU does imply ubuntu membership.15:49
xnoxone has to sign the code of conduct to be part of ubuntu-dev, and that's by default expected.15:49
micahg_workI think the same should be required of uploaders15:50
xnoxand i don't want to underestimate the PPU contributions. PPU libreoffice, or PPU upstart, or PPU systemd are huge amounts of work and complexity.15:50
xnoxmicahg_work: and that is the case today.15:50
micahg_workit's not necessarily exclusive, just not the default IMHO15:50
xnoxmicahg_work: you can dig up the threads way back, when DMB chased up, pinged and kicked out everyone out of the ubuntu membership (via ubuntu-dev) that didn't satify requires (e.g. code of conduct signed etc.) and from then on it became the default.15:51
xnoxdo you remember that process way back then?15:51
xnox(before my time, as far as i recall correctly, or maybe not)15:51
micahg_workthe applicant is welcome to apply for membership when applying for PPU if they feel they've made significant and sustained dev contributions, the idea was to allow those who have the technical know-how but don't necessarily have the time to commit for significant and sustained contribution to be able to contribute as well15:52
micahg_workxnox, hrm, that's quite a while back, I can dig a bit, sure15:52
xnoxmy understanding of status quo, was that all PPUs are applying for membership, and can choose for membership requirements to be lifted if they so request (and thus ask for PPU-sans-memberhip) Granted that's not obvious on the application page.15:53
xnoxhowever, i wonder if that became obsolete.15:53
xnoxmost PPU-sans-membership no longer apply, and instead use CI train/airline/silo stuff.15:54
xnoxthus imho, it's a historical artifact we should forget about =)15:54
micahg_workthat's for Canonical people, the policy was meant for the community at large15:55
bdmurraywe are running a bit short on time, how about we dig a bit and take it to email?15:56
micahg_workI can think that one appropriate application is DMs in Debian, PPU w/out membership would be a natural extension if they care about their packages, but don't do much in Ubuntu15:56
micahg_workbdmurray, yes, that sounds good15:56
bdmurrayI think somebody should follow up with Unit193 regarding their application. Any volunteers?15:57
micahg_workbdmurray, yes, I can15:57
bdmurray#action micahg_work to follow up with Unit193 about their application15:57
micahg_workI know the timing of our meetings was a bit hard15:57
meetingologyACTION: micahg_work to follow up with Unit193 about their application15:57
bdmurray#topic any other business15:58
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: any other business
bdmurrayAnything else?15:58
bdmurrayAlright, thanks for everyone.16:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Aug  3 16:00:05 2015 UTC.16:00
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-03-15.06.moin.txt16:00
LaneyI thought it was quite clear, I'm susprised that this is causing problems16:03
Laneydid nobody read my devel-permissions mail?16:03
micahg_workI did read the mail, I thought we were going to discuss, we did to some extent, people wanted more source material I guess16:05
Laneylike what?16:06
Laneythis is not going to get resolved16:06
micahg_workpeople wanted to read the original discussions from when we decided about PPU, there wasn't much time for people to read up as this was a late breaking agenda item and I believe the people that attended the meeting save for me and you were not on the board at the time the policy was implemented16:10
Laneyif we randomly decide to change what was previously agreed I'm going to be pissed off16:15
micahg_workI don't think that's the goal, I think you and I recall differently what was agreed upon, and people want to check the archives, I'll do that as well, I don't think we want to change anything that was agreed upon16:16
LaneyOK, hope so16:17
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Aug  3 16:31:45 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:31
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick16:31
tyhicksThe meeting agenda can be found at:16:32
tyhicks[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting16:32
tyhicks[TOPIC] Announcements16:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
tyhicksSeyeong Kim (xtrusia) provided debdiffs for trusty-wily for pcre3 (LP: #1396768)16:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1396768 in pcre3 (Ubuntu Vivid) "pcre3 vulnerability CVE-2014, 2015" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139676816:32
tyhicksYour contributions are greatly appreciated! :)16:32
tyhicks[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report16:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
tyhicksmdeslaur: you're up16:32
mdeslaurI'm out all week as I'm going to a conference16:32
mdeslaurtoday I'm preparing my travel laptop16:33
mdeslaurthat's it from me, sbeattie, you're up16:33
sbeattieI'm taking cve triage for mdeslaur this week, since he's gone and I'll be at a conference next week, when it would be my turn.16:33
sbeattieI'm testing my fix to the apparmor 2.10 regression that prevented it from migrating to wily from proposed16:34
sbeattieI've also got openjdk-6 on my plate this week16:34
sbeattieThat's pretty much my priorities for this week. tyhicks, you're up.16:35
tyhicksI'm on community this week16:36
tyhicksI have a couple designs to work on16:36
tyhicksI have an embargoed issue16:38
tyhicksI need to drum up someone to verify the fix for bug #147358416:39
ubottubug 1473584 in linux-manta (Ubuntu Vivid) "AUDIT_USER_AVC messages are not printk'ed when auditd is not running" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147358416:39
tyhicksI think jjohansen is going to help me there if he has a chance16:39
tyhicksand I need to finish the fix for a stale dcache issue in eCryptfs reported on Friday16:40
tyhicksshouldn't be much work left there16:40
tyhicksthat's it for me16:40
tyhicksjjohansen: you're up16:40
jjohansenI need to finish investigating bind mount issue with apparmor lxd in snappy16:40
jjohansenlook into secure exec around the 4.2 rebase of apparmor16:40
jjohansensend some apparmor patches upstream for 4.316:40
jjohansenstill need to finish reviewing the dconf userspace patches16:40
jjohansencontinue working on the fix for bug #144891216:40
ubottubug 1448912 in AppArmor "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference (aa_label_merge)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/144891216:40
jjohansenthats it for me sarnold you're up16:41
sarnoldI'm on bug triage this week16:41
sarnoldI need to have a conversation with till about testing ippusbxd, when doing the mir I wondered if it was working as advertised, and realized that we can't really test this thing end-to-end like we do with most packages16:42
sarnoldmost of the work with the mir is done, it'd just be useful to have an irc chat with till, rather than back-and-forth over bugmail. oh well, it'll work either way..16:43
sarnoldI suspect I'll pick up more MIRs this week, though may do reactive work if needed16:44
tyhickssarnold: he should be catchable over irc16:44
sarnoldand might do an apparmor review or two for a change of pace16:44
sarnoldtyhicks: yeah, I suspect summertime has just made it less likely for us to see each other16:44
* tyhicks nods16:44
tyhickssarnold: would you be able to publish the openstack updates today?16:44
sarnoldtyhicks: sure16:44
tyhickssarnold: that'll be a huge help - thanks!16:45
tyhickssarnold: we can sync up afterwards16:45
sarnoldit'll feel great have those moving :)16:45
tyhicksChris is likely having connectivity issues16:45
tyhicksI think we're done with stand-up reports16:45
tyhicks[TOPIC] Highlighted packages16:45
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
tyhicksThe Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.16:46
tyhicksSee https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.16:46
tyhicks[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions16:46
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
tyhicksDoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?16:46
tyhicksmdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold: Thanks!16:48
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Aug  3 16:48:03 2015 UTC.16:48
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-03-16.31.moin.txt16:48
sarnoldthanks tyhicks :)16:48
mdeslaurthanks tyhicks!16:48
jjohansenthanks tyhicks16:48
sbeattietyhicks: thanks!16:48
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