[00:13] <diddledan> what's the cross-platform story for ubuntu-thingies and non-ubuntu-thingies apps?
[00:13] <diddledan> it seems the only solution is "cordova"
[00:14] <diddledan> qt would be ideal except that ubuntu has components unique to ubuntu and you need to use those to get the ubuntu look-n-feel while on other platforms you just use skinned variations of the same component set (as far as I can see)
[00:15] <diddledan> s/the same/a single/
[00:16] <diddledan> e.g. I want to target both windows and ubuntu - so how would I build a qml frontend for that?
[00:17] <ali1234> qml is horrible for "actual" windows
[00:18] <ali1234> Qt is a huge mess of dependencies and libs
[00:18] <diddledan> "actual" windows?
[00:18] <ali1234> a in desktop yes
[00:19] <ali1234> the best cross platform library is SDL2 by about a million miles
[00:19] <ali1234> but of course it doesn't do guis
[00:20] <ali1234> so almost certainly not what you want for apps
[00:21] <ali1234> what most people do is write a core library, which is either a C++ library or a web API, and then make an app around it unique for each platform
[00:23] <ali1234> so you have a few choices for how to make a "killer" app
[00:24] <ali1234> you can make something which is effectively a webpage in an app. requires that you have access to data people can't get any other way
[00:24] <ali1234> or you can write a game
[00:24] <diddledan> I'm not sure I get what you mean with "requires that you have access to data people can't get any other way"
[00:25] <ali1234> for example all the london tube apps
[00:25] <ali1234> the only alternative is to try to use the tfl webpage and that's just a joke
[00:26] <ali1234> although that's a bad example because the data apis are public so there's already like a million of those apps
[00:28] <ali1234> last time i checked, Qt for android will increase the size of your apk by about 75mb
[00:28] <ali1234> and pretty much the same on windows
[00:29] <ali1234> in comparison, gstreamer is 12mb and SDL is about 2mb
[00:30] <diddledan> ouch
[00:30] <ali1234> it's actually a big problem for Qt that nobody uses it by default
[00:30] <ali1234> except for... maemo and symbian... both dead
[00:31] <ali1234> and jolla/sailfish and ubuntu, both not mainstream
[00:31] <ali1234> because Qt is really a huge download if you don't already have it in your OS
[00:31] <ali1234> and people hate that
[00:32] <diddledan> sucky nuts
[00:32] <ali1234> they *might* have fixed this somewhat with Qt 5
[00:32] <ali1234> but... my expectations are low at this point
[00:47] <diddledan> eww - the formatting on the subpages of this page is/are evil https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/apps/html5/sdk-15.04/ContentHub/
[00:47] <diddledan> very difficult to scan those pages without reading intently
[00:48] <diddledan> e.g. "parameters" pops out several times as a section title as though that is more important than the actual function name
[00:50] <diddledan> the vertical spacing is all wonky too - text runs-on like "destroys the remote object. this proxy object is not valid anymore.\ndirection(callback)"
[00:50] <diddledan> the \n is newline
[00:51] <diddledan> so is that sentence describing the direction(callback) bit or the bit before it with a much larger gap
[00:52] <diddledan> seems other parts of the html5 docs are all the same, in these regards
[00:53] <shauno> huh.  that is indeed butt-ugly
[00:54] <diddledan> this is a good example: https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/apps/html5/sdk-15.04/UbuntuUI.Dialog/
[00:54] <diddledan> scroll down to the "show()" line
[00:54] <diddledan> Hide a dialog by removing 'active' class
[00:54] <diddledan> show(  )
[00:54] <diddledan> nice, we use "show()" to hide?
[00:57] <diddledan> the qml docs seem nicely formatted. so it's just the html5 side that's rather eye-raping
[00:57] <shauno> I was going to say it's interesting that the qml docs get it right, but they're using table-abuse instead, which I can't condone either
[00:57] <diddledan> grr
[00:58] <shauno> it's actually quite funny.  eg, https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/apps/qml/sdk-15.04/QtQuick.Drag/#dragStarted-signal
[00:58] <diddledan> oh god, the markup of the qml docs is evil
[00:58] <shauno> each one of those grey boxes they're using as a heading, is a table
[00:59] <shauno> a table containing a single cell in a single row
[00:59] <diddledan> jee
[00:59] <diddledan> zus
[01:00] <shauno> well, we know what you're doing tonight :)  I expect patches by the morning!
[01:00] <daftykins> :D
[01:00] <diddledan> I'm expecting they're generated somehow. so to patch it I need to figure out how they're generated
[01:04] <shauno> https://code.launchpad.net/~developer-ubuntu-com-dev/developer-ubuntu-com/django-cms
[01:07] <shauno> looks convincing, since the qdoc.css the qml docs use, is in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~developer-ubuntu-com-dev/developer-ubuntu-com/django-cms/files/head:/api_docs/static/api_docs/css/
[01:08] <shauno> if not, it at least give away which team you need to go offer your bod^H^H^Hservices to
[01:09] <shauno> (also, I'm in southampton on thursday)
[01:10] <daftykins> woo
[01:10] <shauno> I know.  I pick some exotic spots for summer holidays :)
[01:11] <daftykins> could be worse, you could go wave at my old stomping grounds in Portsmouth
[01:12] <daftykins> http://www.macrumors.com/2015/07/31/ibm-200k-macs/
[01:12] <daftykins> IBM in Apple move shocker o0
[01:14] <shauno> they must have read that article about putting them in racks
[01:15] <shauno> kinda weird to picture them moving away from thinkpads though
[01:16] <daftykins> indeed
[01:16] <daftykins> shows what Lenovo did with it perhaps
[01:16] <daftykins> or more just their partnership growing
[01:29] <shauno> intersting that for all the rage ryanair get, I actually have more frustration with other airlines
[01:30] <shauno> ryanair will let me checkin up to 30 days before a flight.  flybe, 36 hours.  so on wednesday I have to make a trip to the office on my day off, just to borrow their printer
[03:34] <mappps> hi n
[03:48] <zmoylan-pi> wut q
[03:59] <mappps> think il watch mr robot:)
[05:20] <mappps> anyone been watching humans chan4?
[05:23] <knightwise> morning
[05:24] <mappps> morn;]
[05:24] <knightwise> hey mappps , havent watched humans yet. Still on House of cards and Broadchurch
[05:25] <mappps> ahh never seen either always mant to broadchurch as bbc right?
[05:25] <mappps> hoc netflix?
[05:25] <knightwise> its on netflix now, we watched the first season on the Bbc
[05:27] <mappps> oh
[05:27] <mappps> broadcurch was bbc ..uk sho yea?
[05:27] <mappps> show
[05:28] <knightwise> correct
[05:28] <knightwise> the american version sux
[05:30] <mappps> ah didnt know there were 2
[05:33] <knightwise> some lame american spinoff they did of season 1 .
[05:33] <zmoylan-pi> how often are remakes good?
[05:35] <knightwise> not too often
[05:35] <knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/user/TheRealHustleA3M/playlists
[05:36] <knightwise> ah :) interesting material for my social engineering course :)
[06:02] <mappps> on ep2 atm of humans..seems decent
[06:02] <mappps> did anyone watch that misfts another one i should watch someday
[07:44] <mapito> hmm
[08:10] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:11] <knightwise> mornin davmor2
[08:14] <davmor2> morning head songs updated and I hate Tait I am likely to travel to Derby soon to beat him mercilessly for todays song
[08:19] <zmoylan-pi> the birdie song?
[08:33] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:34] <knightwise> hey bigcalm zmoylan-pi
[08:34] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[08:35]  * knightwise is doing some remote Rsync backups to his pi
[08:35]  * zmoylan-pi is testing my pillow for snooze compatibility...
[08:37] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: you lucky bugger
[08:38] <zmoylan-pi> bank holiday in ireland.
[08:39] <knightwise> true
[08:39] <knightwise> what holiday is this ?
[08:40] <zmoylan-pi> the it's the last chance of a bit of sunshine in ireland before the 13 month rainy season kicks off holiday
[08:40] <zmoylan-pi> forecast is a weather warning for wind and rain
[08:44] <davmor2> knightwise: it's Ireland, It's get drunk day
[08:46] <zmoylan-pi> no it's sunday 2 so you can sober up for tuesday...
[08:50] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: ah today is sober up from being drunk day fair enough
[08:52] <davmor2> popey: oh by the way todays morning head song your fault too, you and JamesTait
[08:54] <davmor2> popey: although it is mostly Will Farrell faulty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvRypx1lbR4
[09:00] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:10] <knightwise> hey brobostigon
[09:11] <brobostigon> hi knightwise
[09:21] <foobarry> my win7 install isn't offering me a win10
[09:23] <zmoylan-pi> foobarry must be on the naughty list... :-)
[09:25] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Watermelon Day! 😃
[09:31] <davmor2> JamesTait: for your day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAO9Vg3wQso    for manday fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLBSoC_2IY8 and I hate you popey  and will farrell for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvRypx1lbR4  that got stuck in my head this morning
[10:15] <davmor2> JamesTait: did you like that :)
[10:16] <JamesTait> davmor2, the watermelon one melted my brain. I haven't watched the other two, I have work to do! 😝
[13:11] <foobarry> https://www.facebook.com/Vocativ/videos/vb.368307893181452/1047699621908939/?type=2&theater
[13:11] <foobarry> cool vehicle
[13:13] <mapito> another bad start to the da
[13:13] <mapito> day
[13:29] <knightwise> Yuck how i hate this weather
[13:29] <mapito> i slept badly 9-3p waking up every hr;
[13:29] <mapito> ;p
[13:29] <mapito> not even hot for here
[15:19] <diddledan> this looks intriguing: https://github.com/yaronn/wopr
[15:19] <zmoylan-pi> joshua
[15:19] <foobarry> barry
[15:27] <diddledan> dan
[15:30] <popey> dan
[15:31] <daftykins> dan!
[15:33] <zmoylan-pi> desperate dan the cowpie man? :-)
[15:33] <foobarry> i have literally no idea what is happening
[15:34] <davmor2> Wouldn't you rather play a nice game of chess
[15:34] <foobarry> no i'd like to play thermonuclear war
[15:35] <foobarry> i should have clicked the link
[15:36] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g187065-d1077385-i39205908-Mad_O_Rourkes_Pie_Factory-Dudley_West_Midlands_England.html
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> so this is in my town http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33762806
[16:49] <daftykins> :S
[16:56] <daftykins> oh i didn't know Cilla Black died
[17:08] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: found the video of that :S https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHlfK0Ed8Zk
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah, that was on national TV there's one from the other side as well (with a very screamy young lady)
[17:09] <daftykins> :S
[17:56] <knightwise> for anyone who has an XPS13 : Bios A05 is out!
[17:56] <daftykins> some guy was claiming Dell have stopped selling the developer edition o0
[17:56] <popey> nah
[17:56] <popey> they temporarily withrew it
[17:56] <daftykins> hrmm, any clue why ?
[17:56] <popey> to integrate fixes into the factory
[17:56] <popey> basically qa fail
[17:56] <daftykins> ah
[17:57] <daftykins> is that why the site only says 'get pricing' now?
[17:57] <zmoylan-pi> dell has qa??
[17:57]  * knightwise is still pretty happy with his
[17:57] <davmor2> popey: oi leave us out of it nothing to do with us ;)
[17:57] <popey> I didn't say it was :þ
[17:57] <daftykins> who is 'us' o0
[17:57] <popey> he works in qa
[17:57] <popey> (apparently)
[17:58] <daftykins> oic
[17:59] <directhex> rare replay out tomorrow. exciting game launch!
[17:59] <popey> no goldeneye :(
[17:59] <directhex> popey: licensing for that one was basically impossible
[18:00] <popey> shame
[18:00] <directhex> donkey kong games also absent. nintendo has all the rights for those
[18:01] <directhex> still, viva pinata is amazing
[18:01] <directhex> and the less-censored n64 version of conker's bad fur day
[18:01] <directhex> and blast corps! blast corps is amazing
[18:02] <daftykins> :)
[18:02] <daftykins> 3pm tomorrow for the xbox gamescom event i believe
[18:11] <directhex> won't be watching. too busy playing blast corps!
[18:11] <directhex> apparently the worst thing by a wide margin in rare replay is the controls for jet force gemini being staggeringly awful
[18:30] <ali1234> battletoads :)
[18:30] <ali1234> popey: it has perfect dark, that's basically the same game as goldeneye
[18:31] <mapito> blst corps?
[18:41] <Nokaji> just got my blu ray semi-usable an I must say as a non-film watcher, DVD sucks for quality and blu-ray blew me away (that almost rhymes), not blur(a)y at all
[18:43] <zmoylan-pi> i watch most tv shows on a 7" tablet so blu ray is wasted on me.  most of the films i buy are ancient so will have no benefit on blu ray.  my eye sight sucks so 50"+ screen is wasted on me.
[18:43] <zmoylan-pi> ymmv
[18:44] <Myrtti_> knightwise: does it matter which XPS13?
[18:45] <Nokaji> Well, i won't be watching too many movies so in that respect, it is wasted on me however for the first time in 3~4yrs (I forget), I can see the benefits of my23.5" IPS display
[18:45] <Nokaji> I don't watch TV either
[18:46] <mapito> spain time
[18:47] <mapito> going to chinese all you can et and drink
[18:47] <mapito> 20 euros;D
[19:02] <daftykins> o0
[19:09] <directhex> mapito: blast corps was an interesting and unique n64 game
[19:13] <ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/H3V0nTi.png
[19:15] <ali1234> out of accelerometer, gyro, compass, which one would you think would be most affected by EM interference?
[19:16] <diddledan> compass
[19:16] <ali1234> that's what i thought too
[19:16] <ali1234> but it turns out the answer is accelerometer
[19:16] <diddledan> gyro should be the most stable
[19:16] <daftykins> surely they have very different assembly
[19:16] <ali1234> daftykins: they are all mems - they're all in one chip
[19:17] <ali1234> anyway in the graph blue is compass, green in gyro and red is accelerometer
[19:17] <ali1234> and black is motor speed
[19:18] <ali1234> i suppose the accelerometer could be picking up vibration
[19:18] <diddledan> yes it could
[19:19] <ali1234> the wheels aren't actually touching the ground though
[19:19] <diddledan> you should test it with an em source that isn't moving
[19:19] <ali1234> indeed
[19:19] <ali1234> i dunno if i have one though
[19:20] <ali1234> ah i know
[19:22] <ali1234> hmm okay that sent the compass off the chart
[19:22] <ali1234> and nothing from the others
[19:50] <bittin> cool found an ssh client for Firefox :)
[19:52]  * zmoylan-pi has ssh client on java phone :-)
[19:53] <zmoylan-pi> i even found a vnc client but haven't tested it yet
[19:58] <bittin> http://a.uguu.se/rzdrhe.png
[20:00] <popey> daftykins: btw, "fixed" my "no audio on nvidia" issue on windows 10
[20:01] <popey> by removing the dvi cable and using hdmi
[20:03] <zmoylan-pi> https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/617691779622637568/photo/1
[20:04] <popey> retro
[20:05] <mgdm> is that an E61? They were cool
[20:05] <mgdm> wait, no
[20:06] <zmoylan-pi> indestructible with great battery life and does ereader, mp3s, radio, web, rss, irc, email and more.  nokia asha 302.  dumbphone with wifi
[20:06] <mgdm> The E71 is the one I was thinking of
[20:06] <davmor2> popey: you know when you say fixed?  worked around might be a better term ;)
[20:07] <popey> hence the quotes around it
[20:08] <davmor2> popey: with all the steam games coming to linux now surely the real fix is to install steamos on that box and be done right :D
[20:09] <popey> sadly not
[20:09] <czajkowski> evening
[20:10] <bittin> hi
[20:10] <popey> hello czajkowski bittin
[20:10]  * zmoylan-pi waves from the land of supermacs... :-p
[20:10] <mgdm> gettings czajkowski
[20:10] <mgdm> and indeed greetings
[20:11] <popey> davmor2: i have ~220 games in steam, "only" ~148 are Linux compatible.
[20:11] <davmor2> popey: hahahaha
[20:11] <popey> mgdm: do you work for netgear then?
[20:11] <popey> shhh
[20:11] <mgdm> popey: heh, no...
[20:12] <davmor2> popey: why are you czajkowski bitten ;)
[20:15] <daftykins> popey: heh, HDMI definitely wins :>
[20:15] <czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: tease!
[20:15] <popey> annoying as it worked fine for a few days then just stopped
[20:16] <daftykins> ah well, there was a time when i didn't believe DVI could carry audio too
[20:16] <zmoylan-pi> some day they may win their case against mcdonalds and set up in uk
[20:16] <shauno> http://www.thejournal.ie/minion-santry-2250639-Aug2015/   I don't care how off-topic this is, dublin's hilarious
[20:17] <shauno> I really, really want to hear that 999 call
[20:18] <popey> \o/ hcf
[20:18] <mgdm> hebridean celtic festival?
[20:19] <popey> Halt & Catch Fire
[20:19] <mgdm> ahhh - seen that on $video_service, any good?
[20:20] <popey> very
[20:20] <popey> binge watched the entire season 1
[20:22] <zmoylan-pi> didn't think much of it
[20:22] <zmoylan-pi> loved mad men not a fan of hcf
[20:23] <shauno> I loved the first season.  the second is watchable but not quite grabbing me the same way
[20:23] <popey> yeah, not seen much of s2 yet
[20:24] <zmoylan-pi> i have heard a lot of people rave about it so maybe i should try it again
[20:28] <mgdm> Hmm, mad men - watched about 10 episodes of it and gave up
[21:02] <diddledan> shauno: lmao
[21:02] <diddledan> the photos are required to fully appeciate the hilarity
[21:03] <zmoylan-pi> be glad it wasn't the states were you'd have gun happy cops taking out a cartoon character...
[21:05] <diddledan> "city police officials are once again warning residents not to shoot at the craft for fear of inadvertainly inciting an interstellar war" (I think that's the correct quote)
[21:05] <Myrtti_> if you're in UK and in the market for a new Dyson, may I warmly recommend the Dyson Outlet on eBay. We scored a cylinder Cinetic Animal Exclusive for 250, got extra bits that neither Dyson.co.uk or Tesco Direct has in their £450-£460 bundles with the same machine.
[21:07] <Myrtti_> same warranty, and from the looks of things the eBay shop is genuinely run by Dyson.
[21:08] <daftykins> nifty
[21:08] <Myrtti_> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111647436930
[21:09] <Myrtti_> ordered it on Saturday afternoon and it came by Parcelforce today
[21:09] <daftykins> bit confusing that it says 'doesn't post to UK' for me o0
[21:10] <daftykins> heh
[21:10] <diddledan> daftykins: but you're not in the uk
[21:11] <Myrtti_> works great with lots of embedded looooong hairs and wool on the carpet, I might add
[21:11] <Myrtti_> more powerful than an upright and easier to carry, too.
[21:11]  * m0nkey_ sighs: Postage: Doesn't post to Canada
[21:11] <Myrtti_> aww :-(
[21:12] <daftykins> diddledan: i am when it suits us
[21:12] <m0nkey_> ok, i need a cheap flight to the uk...
[21:13]  * zmoylan-pi looks at wind outside... open an umbrella? :-p
[21:13] <m0nkey_> cheapest I can find is $1050, direct.
[21:15] <diddledan> m0nkey_: apparently it's cheaper to use france
[21:15] <diddledan> m0nkey_: fly to france then train to the uk
[21:15] <diddledan> m0nkey_: although that example was based on it being cheaper to fly from france to ameriky via london than fly from london to ameriky
[21:15] <zmoylan-pi> you probably get a discount if you're willing to be tail gunner on train... :-p
[21:16] <m0nkey_> what airport in france is closest to the eurotunnel?
[21:16] <Nokaji> aren't there websites that break down those sorts of journeys?
[21:16] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: it's not as if any helicopters really fly through the chunnel
[21:16] <m0nkey_> Is it CDG?
[21:16] <diddledan> no idea
[21:16] <Nokaji> I'm sure I heard of one, it was compared to the current sites that do that for breaking up train journeys/tickets
[21:17] <m0nkey_> diddledan, flight to CDG is $2 cheaper than flying direct to LGW
[21:17] <diddledan> hmm
[21:18] <diddledan> I think the taxes might be different tho
[21:18] <m0nkey_> that includes taxes
[21:18] <diddledan> gotcha
[21:18] <m0nkey_> for both flights
[21:18] <m0nkey_> Delta is $6 more, via AMS landing in LHR
[21:18] <m0nkey_> Oh, that's a KLM flight
[21:18] <m0nkey_> damn this codeshare crap
[21:19] <m0nkey_> If I fly with AirTransat, that means I have to deal with their sucky on-line check-in.
[21:19] <m0nkey_> (it's sucky, because I used to support it)
[21:25] <m0nkey_> damn.. the Transat flight is only $450, with all the taxes and crap addded on, it's over $1000
[23:22] <diddledan> popey: re the matchstick that you posted a link to on twitter earlier - their original blurb seems to state "The product is fully functional today, with the hardware design final, tooling complete, and manufacturing ready to ramp up in the next 30-60 days." so I'm not understanding what the DRM problem is
[23:25] <diddledan> for those following-on at home, the link was kickstarter.com/projects/matchstick/matchstick-the-streaming-stick-built-on-firefox-os/posts/1266549?ref=backer_project_update
[23:26] <diddledan> following-along**
[23:46] <daftykins> o0