[00:27] <CeIeIibi> why am i banned from #Ubuntu
[00:36] <bazhang> CeIeIibi, you know why
[00:37] <CeIeIibi> its the infamous bazhang
[00:38] <bazhang> in the text
[00:46] <bazhang> exit the channel CeIeIibi
[00:47] <CeIeIibi> fucking cunt
[14:48] <popey> uh. 15:43 < lubotu3> Error: unresolvable <alias> to isitout-#ubuntu-release-party
[15:28] <jpds> k1l_: This guy's been dodgy for a while
[15:32] <zetheroo> seriously!?
[15:32] <k1l_> zetheroo: hi
[15:33] <k1l_> zetheroo: if you keep repeating the same thing over and over again no matter what people answer you based with facts, this is getting nowhere and is just spoiling the channel while other users need real technical support.
[15:33] <zetheroo> hi ... booting me off the channel while I am being batted over the head for suggesting something which non-terminal-loving users might appreciate!?
[15:34] <zetheroo> they are speaking of facts, yes, but almost none of the facts have anything to do with what I was talking about!
[15:34] <zetheroo> and every time I try to explain it people are telling me to "stop" ....
[15:34] <jpds> zetheroo: Non-terminal users can install the GUI frontend apps
[15:34] <k1l_> zetheroo: you are arguing, that every ubuntu user wants the same things you do. which is just not right.
[15:35] <zetheroo> no I am not!
[15:35] <jpds> 15:27:51 < zetheroo > All I am saying is that if there is a built in AV and FW it would be nice for Canonical to make some sort of graphical representation of it's existence ... would be nice ... ;)
[15:36] <k1l_> ubuntu got ufw and apparmor running. so its there, like its told on the ubuntu.com/desktop site you cited. if someone (and that is not the average ubuntu user) wants to change the configs he can install and use the grafical programs ubuntu ships in the repo.
[15:36] <zetheroo> I am saying that it would BE NICE (as per my many years of experience helping people move from Windows to Linux) to have some graphical representation of what Canonical boasts Ubuntu to have built in. Why is that so upsetting!?
[15:36] <k1l_> so, just because you want gufw doesnt mean every ubuntu installation should run gufw by default.
[15:37] <zetheroo> I don't think I am even talking about gufw
[15:37] <jpds> zetheroo: A lot of things would be nice, it doesn't mean that they have to be there by default
[15:38] <zetheroo> For instance in the System Settings ... would be great to have a tab in Security and Privacy for FW and AV ... with maybe some on/off switch or something ...
[15:38] <zetheroo> like a configure button even...
[15:38] <k1l_> zetheroo: because most that users lack the knowledge about what firewalls really are and what tehy do.
[15:38] <zetheroo> just something to let users know that this stuff really IS there and that it really IS "built-in"
[15:38] <popey> zetheroo: create a design mock up and propose it on the devloper mailing list
[15:39] <popey> telling us in here won't effect that change
[15:39] <k1l_> zetheroo: that is exactly that "snake oil privacy" that windows make the users "feel safe"
[15:39] <zetheroo> ok, but shutting me down for saying "this would be nice for new users" ....
[15:39] <popey> ubuntu isn't a discussion room for new features
[15:39] <popey> it's a support channel
[15:39] <zetheroo> ok ... support ... ok
[15:39] <zetheroo> so the "off-topic" is better for that?
[15:40] <popey> sure, but even better would be as I suggested
[15:40] <popey> a mockup and rationale sent to the developer mailing list
[15:40] <zetheroo> I just find the crowd in the #ubuntu channel so touchy more and more ... which is why I rarely bother going there ...
[15:40] <popey> don't then :)
[15:40] <zetheroo> kinda like the #debian channel used to be years ago ... ha
[15:41] <zetheroo> but now the #debian channel crowd seem pretty chilled compared
[15:41] <zetheroo> anyhow - days over. till next time ... ;)
[15:41] <k1l_> *sigh*
[15:42] <zetheroo> k1l_: I get the thing about it being an off-topic subject for the #ubuntu channel ...
[15:42] <zetheroo> can you lift the ban?
[15:43] <zetheroo> pretty please ... k1l_
[15:45] <k1l_> zetheroo: honestly, i dont think that next time it will work out better. since you just blame the "touchy folks" and completly missing the point that you just kept repeating the same (false) argument over and over again which made others jump in to correct you.
[15:45] <zetheroo> ok, what was my "false argument"?
[15:46] <jpds> 15:29:11 < zetheroo > jpds: "With a built-in firewall and virus protection software, Ubuntu is one of the most secure operating systems around." - This denotes that without these softwares it would be less secure. If AV is not needed why  is it there?
[15:46] <zetheroo> what about that is "false"?
[15:47] <k1l_> i would be pleased if you think about that sort of running  a discussion. at elast complaining afterwards that all others are "touchy" is really not helping either.
[15:47] <zetheroo> If I advertise a car for sale and I say "with the SL301 security system this car is one fo the most secure cars around" does that not denote that without the SL301 security system the car would be less secure!?
[15:47] <jpds> The fact that you suggest that without an antivirus Ubuntu is "less secure"
[15:47] <zetheroo>  jpds: nope, you still not getting my point
[15:48] <zetheroo> I am not saying that Ubuntu is less secure without the AV, I am saying that if you advertise Ubuntu as being secure on the basis that it has AV then you are basically saying that without AV it's not as secure.
[15:49] <k1l_> zetheroo: like i told before: users from the other car-company are so used to that "security system" where they can click and switch (and in the end it doesnt change anything securitywise) they demand such feature.
[15:49] <zetheroo> So either Ubuntu is less secure without AV than it is with AV - OR - Canonical are just advertising it in that fashion to make it sound more secure for people who don't know any better ...
[15:50] <k1l_> but like popey said already: make a program that suits every user and propose it.
[15:50] <zetheroo> k1l_: ok, but I was not talking about whether or not it's secure, I am talking about giving the user some visual sign that this promise from Canonical actually exists
[15:51] <zetheroo> instead of telling them "oh it's in there somewhere"
[15:51] <zetheroo> I am just saying this from hearing dozens of new users tell me this over the last year or so
[15:51] <k1l_> #ubuntu is the technical support channel. its not the "i demand that to be standard on ubuntu"-channel. i think that was told you already the last times you had issues with the touchy people in #ubuntu
[15:51] <zetheroo> that all
[15:51] <zetheroo> k1l_: I get that and I already said as much ...
[15:52] <k1l_> which brings us to the main point: why should i unmute you, when you were told the samt thing before and yet you did start the same thing today, again
[15:52] <zetheroo> but I don't think I brought up any "false arguments" as such ... that's how people interpreted it as being ... and attack on the secutiry of Ubuntu ... which it wasn't
[15:53] <k1l_> this is why i dont cheer up for unmuting you right now.
[15:53] <zetheroo> k1l_: because I get that the topic is deemed off-topic in that channel
[15:53] <zetheroo> so I won't bother bringing it up again
[15:54] <k1l_> zetheroo: that is why i would like you to think about your phrasing and way of discussing/explaining it(repeating it over and over again). that will lead to the same situation we are in right now.
[15:55] <zetheroo> k1l_: sorry but people jumped to conclusions as well
[15:55] <zetheroo> I am not going to take a scolding over people jumping down my throat like that ... asking me if I am a retard etc ...
[15:55] <zetheroo> anyhow - do whatever you must or mustn't ...
[15:56] <k1l_> dont get me wrong: its fine to ask about the security setups. and its really good to ask if its the right standard we are using right now or if we should adjust it from time to time.
[15:56] <k1l_> but the way of arguing is the issue i see here.
[18:20] <Pici> anyone else get a pm from triplerx?
[18:21] <IdleOne> nope
[22:22] <hggdh> for the record, ufw does have a graphical interface -- gufw
[22:23] <hggdh> and no PM from triplex as well
[23:55] <jpds> hggdh: We told him
[23:56] <jpds> hggdh: "Well, then it should be by default and in the System Settings, blah"
[23:57] <k1l_> well, he wants the firewall to pop up with many buttons and switches so the users he brings to ubuntu feel safe. like they are used to from windows with their personal firewall and antivirus programs.
[23:58] <k1l_> but the way he did speak about #debian and the way he caught more and more users into discussing i think that was what he really wanted. make some toruble
[23:58] <k1l_> *trouble