[00:20] <daftykins> crikey, the Amazon FireTV is on offer
[00:21] <daftykins> runs Kodi nicely that thing (XBMC)
[00:31]  * diddledan has a flash sale: you can look at my junk for pennies!
[00:31]  * diddledan flashes
[00:31] <diddledan> that was a taster
[00:36]  * zmoylan-pi goes to kitchen to get forks to poke both my eyes out...
[00:45] <diddledan> need some eyebleech?
[00:46] <zmoylan-pi> who said that?
[08:21] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:25] <MooDoo> morning
[08:28] <foobarry> i tried to pay paypal friends and family with my CC last night. they tried to charge 86p for the privilege
[08:29] <popey> what's paypal F&F?
[08:29] <foobarry> does this mean if i pay for goods on ebay with paypal using my cc , the same charge applies? i hadn't noticed it
[08:29] <foobarry> paypal F&F lets you pay people without the 3.5% handling charge
[08:30] <foobarry> you owe your mate £20 , you pay F&F , nobody loses paypal commission
[08:31] <nucc1> whenever you use a CC, charges are inevitable
[08:31] <nucc1> if you use a direct debit to your bank account, the fees are less or nonexistent
[08:31] <foobarry> however i don't think i am charged when using paypal and my cc to buy on ebay
[08:31] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:32] <nucc1> foobarry: ebay eats the cost.
[08:32] <foobarry> maybe not much longer if they are separate again
[08:32] <foobarry> or its a purchase of goods rather than money transfer
[08:32] <nucc1> foobarry: they probably will still eat it, as do many sites which accept CCs
[08:43] <mgdm> I think it's only if you use a CC - a debit card probably wouldn't do that </speculation>
[08:43] <foobarry> jsut got a refund on a bag that didn't arrive
[08:43] <foobarry> they sent 2, neither arrived
[08:45] <nucc1> this is why i always use signed-for on my ebay sales
[08:45]  * popey has two things arriving today \o/
[08:45] <foobarry> from china
[08:45] <popey> one is via DPD so I know it will be here between 12:26 and 13:26
[08:46] <nucc1> Dread Pirate Delivery :p
[08:54] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:57] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[08:58] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:58] <davmor2> foobarry: It's almost certainly only separating as a tax or legal loophole/requirement
[09:01] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Particularly Preposterous Packaging Day! 😃
[09:04]  * bashrc_ notices that the open source firechat on my phone appears not to be the same thing as the firechat often mentioned
[09:04] <davmor2> JamesTait: Dude it was Precise Pangolin goes to show how much attention you pay
[09:05] <JamesTait> davmor2, Precise Pangolin has Particularly Preposterous Packaging?
[09:05] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgzEBLa3PPk
[09:06] <JamesTait> "You hum it son, I'll play it."
[09:06] <davmor2> popey, JamesTait, MooDoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhOeG-uTJxw  :D
[09:17] <MooDoo> davmor2: love those adverts lol caused a lot of problems in our local school that :) "You've been tangoed" SLAP! lol
[09:20] <awilkins> Double ruptured eardrums in some cases
[09:23] <awilkins> Hence the replacement with the snog version
[09:38] <awilkins> sqlite3 : my string column contains quotes, any way to get the command line program to output the value without the escaped quotes?
[10:02] <foobarry> so basically donald trump is farage
[10:02] <foobarry> someone for the media to get completely excited and obsessed over
[10:15] <nucc1> foobarry: in trump's case, he does have the bragging right of being a billionaire
[10:16] <nucc1> you know how easily people go: if he's a billionaire, he must be smart
[10:16] <brobostigon> does that also mean, being a billionaire gives you the right to be a nutter as a day job?
[10:16] <nucc1> no,
[10:17] <nucc1> but of course, 50% of the world is below 100 IQ
[10:17] <brobostigon> in his case, my example applies.
[10:18] <bashrc_> Trump seems like the ideal oligarch to run the US
[10:19] <bashrc_> if you think of all the things wrong with the US they're pretty much emodied in Trump
[10:20] <foobarry> i don't know anything about him, but as he seems like an attention seekr, i'm not going to find out
[10:26] <popey> this sums up the difference between UK and US
[10:26] <popey> someone else said this recently.
[10:26] <nucc1> recap please?
[10:26] <popey> "An American sees their neighbour with a Rolls Royce and wants one, a UK person sees a neighbour with a Rolls Royce and wants them to die in a fire".
[10:26] <popey> Americans love successful people
[10:26] <nucc1> oh, yea lol
[10:27] <nucc1> or they go on a "raise taxes on the rich" tirade
[10:28] <foobarry> americans have been sold the idea that sucess=money and they can all get it and they all deserve it
[10:31] <bashrc_> having done engineering stuff on expensive cars, I can testify to their scarily low build quality
[10:31] <mgdm> I've heard it said that Mercs aren't particularly well put together
[10:31] <foobarry> which ones?
[10:32] <foobarry> i would expect bentleys and RR to be v well built
[10:32] <zmoylan-pi> expect...
[10:32] <bashrc_> you'd expect wrong
[10:33] <foobarry> [citation needed]
[10:33] <bashrc_> in my experience people who buy those cars really are just paying for the brand. The actual quality is no better than the cheapest vehicles
[10:33] <nucc1> bashrc_: i don't agree with you.
[10:33] <foobarry> they are totally different machines though
[10:33] <nucc1> you don't even need to go as high as a bentley. compare a Ford Fiesta with a Mercedes C class.
[10:34] <foobarry> down to the hand stitched leather
[10:34] <bigcalm> Considering a VM Passat estate for my next car. Are they well built?
[10:34] <popey> generally, yeah.
[10:34] <foobarry> built by robots innit
[10:34] <popey> i used to love my Mercedes C200
[10:34] <nucc1> foobarry: success == money. it has always been this way (money is today's social currency)
[10:34] <popey> was one of the best company cars I ever had
[10:34] <nucc1> foobarry: robots work better than humans.
[10:34] <bigcalm> I love my 407, but it's got too many interconnected electrical systems that mean if something goes wrong, it messes up the whole car
[10:35] <directhex> you wanna talk electrical systems messing up cars? :p
[10:35] <directhex> i drive a volt!
[10:35] <popey> hah
[10:36] <nucc1> popey: you drive a mercedes and you instantly understand why they command a premium price.
[10:36] <mgdm> directhex: does it have a charger like this? :) https://twitter.com/TeslaMotors/status/629305813912326146
[10:36] <directhex> mgdm: is that tesla's steel penis?
[10:36] <directhex> yes
[10:36] <mgdm> directhex: delicately put, yes
[10:36] <directhex> the answer is "no, it doesn't"
[10:37] <zmoylan-pi> so even if the volt becomes intelligent it will need to keep humans around to tend to it...
[10:39] <Myrtti> Volvo ♥
[10:41] <bigcalm> A Volvo might be an option. Sadly, Hayley thinks that the tail end is ugly
[10:42] <popey> I <3 my volvo
[10:43] <bigcalm> Is it still alive?
[10:43] <bigcalm> Hey, I can say this now...
[10:43] <bigcalm> It's the RAT next month
[10:44] <popey> oh blimey, so it is
[10:44]  * popey looks up at his ticket
[10:44] <popey> still there
[10:44] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:45] <davmor2> popey: what happened to getting a new car
[10:45] <popey> was I getting a new car?
[10:46] <davmor2> popey: yes you talked of it when the volvo failed it's mot
[10:48] <popey> oh. I never actually looked at any.
[10:48] <popey> just pondered
[10:48] <davmor2> popey: ah okay
[10:48] <popey> bigcalm: http://imgur.com/15FUks8 proof!
[10:49] <bigcalm> Haha
[10:49] <bigcalm> popey: you didn't get it framed then
[10:49] <popey> :)
[10:49] <popey> nah, balanced between two blobs of blu-tak was sufficient
[10:49] <foobarry> you need a vim mug
[10:49] <popey> i do!
[10:50] <popey> I never look at that cheat sheet
[10:50] <popey> laminated it myseflf
[10:50] <popey> new toy #1 arrived. Logitech K480 keyboard. Tis good
[10:50] <Myrtti> It looked a bit big when we had a look the other day
[10:50] <Myrtti> I had hoped it would have been a bit smaller
[10:50] <davmor2> popey: use it as a mouse mat
[10:51] <popey> its quite heavy
[10:51] <popey> feels like it has bits of metal in to make it heavy
[10:51] <Myrtti> I decided that I won't take my XPS13 to the trip and packed my Nexus 9 and a logitech keyboard in my backpack instead
[10:51] <davmor2> popey: I got the k750 I likes it too :)
[10:53] <popey> toooo big
[10:55] <popey> davmor2: does your kb work with krillin retail images? see bug 1482531
[10:56] <davmor2> popey: I have a bluetooth portable keyboard that does this is one with the logitech dongle
[10:56] <popey> bummer
[10:57] <davmor2> popey: mine is the Mini Keyboard n53jn from maplins, it works fine
[10:57] <popey> i dont get the pairing dialog where you type numbers in
[12:03] <davmor2> popey: you need to press the button harder ;)  I assume you are on the bluetooth page when you are trying to do this right
[12:07] <popey> ya
[12:15] <zmoylan-pi> i did have one bargain basement bt keyboard €15 in euro store and when trying to pair it didn't bring up dialog but piece of paper that came with it said to type 0000 in after initiating pair and it worked
[12:25] <diddledan>  lol "junior level programmer. they know just enough to blow stuff up@
[12:29] <zmoylan-pi> used to be so simple... just flip power supply switch from 240v to 110v... :-)
[12:34] <awilkins> 0000 and 1234 are the common default pairing codes for stuff
[12:35] <popey> not for this keyboard
[12:35] <popey> it generates a unique number
[12:35] <mgdm> zmoylan-pi: someone I knew in school did that, and was apparently surprised when his running P90 let out a considerable amount of magic smoke
[12:37] <diddledan> mgdm: that's the magic pixies sending signals to warn you something's amiss
[12:39] <nucc1> zmoylan-pi: nowadays we have power supplies that know what voltage is incoming
[12:40] <nucc1> i guess laptop manufactures spent too much money on warranty power supply replacements, they invented a solution
[12:40]  * zmoylan-pi wires nucc1's system to phase3 line from the electric cooker... :-p
[12:41] <nucc1> you mean 3-phase
[12:41] <zmoylan-pi> not so much releasing the magic smoke as magic shrapnel...
[12:41] <nucc1> and note, the voltage is still 240v
[12:44] <mgdm> or 400V if you're across two phases?
[12:49] <nucc1> well, my system is using an intel core i7-9890x clocked at 10Ghz, so that's the normal voltage it expects :p
[12:50] <nucc1> i often receive letters from the police warning me to shut it down because it's interfering with their infra-red vision systems.
[12:52] <diddledan> cookers don't run off 3-phase
[12:52] <diddledan> unless you're talking industrial cookers
[12:52] <diddledan> :-p
[12:52] <nucc1> yea, i wanted to say this, but well, my cooker wiring is in the wall, so i won't notice if it was three-phase
[12:53] <diddledan> you'd need a separate feed from the powerco for a 3phase cooker
[12:53] <nucc1> if your house has a 3-phase feed in already, you won't
[12:53] <nucc1> large enough houses have 3-phase inputs
[12:54] <diddledan> I doubt that
[12:54] <diddledan> 3-phase is an industrial thing
[12:55] <nucc1> well, form my basic high school physics, i think it would be more common than that
[12:55] <nucc1> given power = Voltage x current
[12:55] <nucc1> not sure what the typical input current at the meter is
[12:56] <mgdm> someone I knew had their house on one phase and the garage on another
[12:56] <nucc1> a single-phase house with lots of electric heaters will easily overload the input
[12:57] <diddledan> well when you consider that a standard rcd maxes out at 20amp for consumer distribution boards
[12:58] <diddledan> and that common distboards have enough room for a dozen rcds
[13:02] <directhex> in the UK, cookers are single phase 230V - they're just >13A, so don't use a plug, and are wired into the wall directly
[13:02] <diddledan> thanks directhex - nice to have a wingman :-)
[13:03] <nucc1> diddledan: which means wiring my computer to the source for the cooker will do no damage
[13:03] <diddledan> I believe cookers and ovens are usually on a 20amp circuit
[13:03] <diddledan> nucc1: exactly
[13:03] <diddledan> nucc1: it just means that you'll not have such a responsive short-circuit protection
[13:04] <nucc1> yea, well the cable has it's own 13-amp fuse
[13:04] <directhex> i still need to get my 32A car charger
[13:04] <directhex> mumble mumble
[13:04] <diddledan> yup, that's where the UK plugs are awesome! :-p
[13:04] <diddledan> directhex: 32A! yeek
[13:04] <nucc1> they are big and fugly
[13:05] <zmoylan-pi> unless you step on one in the dark at 4am...
[13:05] <nucc1> ^^
[13:05] <directhex> diddledan: i can't actually charge my current car at 32A. it's futureproofing!
[13:05] <diddledan> directhex: don't touch it with wet fingies :-p
[13:05] <diddledan> aah
[13:05] <directhex> diddledan: s'fine, all car connectors are weatherized.
[13:05] <diddledan> they've rated the cables and plugs but not sorted out a supply
[13:06] <diddledan> ?
[13:06] <directhex> diddledan: i can only charge my car at max 3.6kW :(
[13:06] <diddledan> directhex: open the flap and then don't touch it with wet fingies :-p
[13:06] <directhex> tesla have 120kW. best you can do in a non-tesla is 50kW
[13:07] <diddledan> (I really want to see what happens when you prod it with wet fingers!)
[13:07] <directhex> both of which are high voltage high amperage DC
[13:09] <diddledan> I find the "er" in amperage to be cumbersome.. I like removing it from the equation and just have either amps or ampage
[13:09] <directhex> i can't charge in the rain right now, as i have to pass an extension cord through the letterbox and plug a portable charger into that - and an extension thin enough to go through a letterbox is not weatherised
[13:09] <diddledan> aww, go on!
[13:09] <nucc1> weatherized is a word?
[13:09] <directhex> nucc1: yes.
[13:09] <diddledan> you don't know until you try :-p
[13:10] <directhex> http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/weatherization
[13:10] <zmoylan-pi> you could get an extension add an american plug 2 prong jobbie and then plug that into an adapter?
[13:10] <directhex> diddledan: i have enough trouble convincing the charger to negotiate 10A through a crummy extension at the best of times
[13:11] <diddledan> you need a jedi
[13:11] <directhex> what i need is a proper wall-mounted charger
[13:12] <diddledan> yeah that'ld be cool, too
[13:12] <directhex> which depends on me not having a giant bush of doom in the way
[13:12] <diddledan> beard?
[13:12] <diddledan> :-p
[13:12] <directhex> https://twitter.com/directhex/status/626483577836994561
[13:12] <diddledan> beards scare-off some of the younger contractors :-p
[13:13] <nucc1> i hope to buy a gas guzzling BMW M5 before they go extinct.
[13:13] <diddledan> that's impressive considering it's supposed to be controlled
[13:14] <diddledan> I wonder if I can get a wallwart installed on my block of flats for a nelectric car?
[13:14] <directhex> diddledan: that series of tweets led to them cutting back a bit, but i still don't have permission to dig it up
[13:14] <directhex> diddledan: you'd need to talk to the freeholder of the building
[13:14] <diddledan> obv it will have to be wired-into the dentist on the ground floor but that means I don't have to pay the bill :-p
[13:14] <zmoylan-pi> or a mr. fusion so a trip to shops would just need a rummage in bin first... :-)
[13:15] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: cool idea
[13:15] <diddledan> although our bins are behind locked-doors with a chute
[13:15] <zmoylan-pi> of course you'd have to lose the volt and get a delorean...
[13:16] <diddledan> heck yeah!
[13:16] <diddledan> I'll even install a flux capacitor
[13:16] <directhex> diddledan: there are various government schemes regarding charger installation, but ultimately someone is paying that electricity bill
[13:16] <diddledan> yeah
[13:16] <diddledan> sucky
[13:16] <diddledan> would be seriously worth getting a dual-rate meter
[13:17] <diddledan> and only plugging the car overnight
[13:17] <zmoylan-pi> charge it up at work... stealing office supplies 21st century edition \o/
[13:17] <directhex> or configuring the car to only draw power overnight
[13:17] <diddledan> I still want a googlecar
[13:18] <directhex> so you can plug it in whenever you get home, but not use peak rate power
[13:18] <diddledan> nice
[13:18] <diddledan> I wasn't aware they did that
[13:19] <diddledan> I really need to watch more of my surnamesake, bobby llewellyn
[13:19] <zmoylan-pi> makes sense to save a few bob
[13:19] <diddledan> speaking of which, apparently there's more red dwarf on the offing
[13:20] <zmoylan-pi> oooh a fold up 13a uk plug... http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/12m-folding-thin-plug-power-lead-with-figure-of-8-connector-black-n48ce
[13:20] <directhex> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/418525/electric-vehicle-homecharge-scheme-guidance-for-customers-2015.pdf
[13:21] <diddledan> shame it's only running for one year
[13:23] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: you know about SIP things right? where do I sign up for a free account to just be able to make calls to another sip account?
[13:23] <Azelphur> I've tried two different places with supposedly free accounts and wish to stab things.
[13:24] <directhex> SIP is just... just awful :(
[13:24] <diddledan> Azelphur: you could try running your own box with I think it's called freeswitch?
[13:24] <Azelphur> Option B) Any method of video calling that can be invoked from the command line (ideally without a graphical environment)
[13:25] <diddledan> aah that old chestnut again :-)
[13:25] <Azelphur> Yup
[13:25] <Azelphur> still trying :)
[13:25] <diddledan> persistent lil blighter, you :-p
[13:26] <nucc1> Azelphur: https://ekiga.im/ but i doubt if you can easily achieve cross-domain calling as it should normally be
[13:26] <diddledan> nucc1: you still need a server
[13:26] <Azelphur> nucc1: doesn't work, at all. Get "Could not register (Transport error)" using Ekiga with an Ekiga.net account
[13:27] <nucc1> interesting
[13:27] <diddledan> I wonder if MS are gonna drop linux support for skype now win10 has dropped
[13:27] <nucc1> there is no reason for them to drop it
[13:28] <nucc1> and windows 10 didn't drop skype. do you mean to say skype doesn't work on win10?
[13:28] <bigcalm> Lunch time leaf through Steam. Rocketbirds: Hardboiled Chicken looks interesting
[13:28] <diddledan> except that they'll move the windows version and the windows phone version to a universal app which means the codebase that the linux client is running could disappear
[13:28] <directhex> forget SIP, just use uberconference
[13:29] <directhex> from a browser
[13:29] <diddledan> mozilla hello?
[13:29] <directhex> diddledan: would you believe they killed the universal app?
[13:29] <Azelphur> directhex: again, command line.
[13:29] <nucc1> not if you want to call someone who has a sip app
[13:29] <directhex> diddledan: windows 10 they removed the universal app. only the old desktop app exists now
[13:29] <Azelphur> the person who I want to call is myself, so I can use anything
[13:29] <diddledan> directhex: well. they kinda did. they kinda didn't.
[13:29] <diddledan> directhex: I believe it's a stopgap
[13:30] <directhex> i liked having both, for access to 2 accounts at once
[13:30] <nucc1> google webrtc chat
[13:30] <diddledan> directhex: the phone version still exists
[13:30] <directhex> one account for family, one account for arranging orgies
[13:30] <nucc1> https://vline.com/
[13:30] <diddledan> orgies... hmm, now there's a good idea.
[13:30] <Azelphur> nucc1: I know all about webrtc, I'm a web developer, was hoping to not have to write my own Android app + server for this >.>
[13:30] <nucc1> Azelphur: i thought you said you wanted to talk to yourself?
[13:31] <nucc1> how much easier can it get than browser-based?
[13:31] <diddledan> I talk to myself too often
[13:31] <Azelphur> nucc1: again, it needs to be initiated via command line
[13:31] <nucc1> step back and outline your requirement
[13:31] <Azelphur> (14:24:43) Azelphur: Option B) Any method of video calling that can be invoked from the command line (ideally without a graphical environment)
[13:32] <nucc1> so you want to invoke this from a mobile app?
[13:32] <Azelphur> nucc1: no, I want to initiate the call from a raspberry pi, the other end of the call will be an android phone
[13:32] <Azelphur> think video intercom.
[13:32] <foobarry> does anyone have issues with irrsi not scrolling itself properly?
[13:32] <popey> sometimes, yes
[13:32] <foobarry> not sure if its my addons
[13:32] <popey> if the window was resized
[13:32] <foobarry> its got a lot worse lately
[13:33] <foobarry> this happens on its own
[13:33] <foobarry> page up/down doesn't fix
[13:33] <foobarry> i have to switch chan and switch back
[13:34] <nucc1> Azelphur: https://mdns.sipthor.net/register_sip_account.phtml ?
[13:34] <Azelphur> nucc1: I'll give them a go :)
[13:34] <nucc1> otherwise you ahve to set up your own sip server
[13:34] <diddledan> really? people use the phtml suffix?
[13:34] <diddledan> is that perl+html?
[13:35] <mgdm> sometimes PHP
[13:35] <nucc1> it's these new-fangled kids who use url components as parameters that grind my gears
[13:35] <nucc1> :p
[13:35] <foobarry> could be my nicklist addon
[13:35] <foobarry> but i "need" that
[13:35] <foobarry> for smaller chans
[13:37] <diddledan> foobarry: it's not the size of the channel, it's what you do with it
[14:01] <foobarry> how can i see what i've +1'd on g+?
[14:02] <diddledan> foobarry: I'm not sure you can get a single list
[14:02] <foobarry> i +1 something on my phone to look at later
[14:02] <foobarry> but i can't find it
[14:02] <diddledan> grr
[14:03] <nucc1> use chrome and bookmark it is the only way
[14:03] <nucc1> continuity still sucks in today's ubiquitous network environment
[14:03] <nucc1> well, i shouldn't say the only way, it's the easiest way i know of
[14:03] <foobarry> i don't use chrome on either phone or pc
[14:03] <nucc1> use firefox sync
[14:03] <nucc1> use opera sync
[14:03] <nucc1> etc.
[14:04] <foobarry> my profile has a +1s tab
[14:04] <foobarry> but its empty
[14:04] <nucc1> that's the tab for if people have +1'd you :)
[14:04] <nucc1> funny that you have a g+ profile and don't use chrome, which gives you some benefits from having a google account
[14:05] <nucc1> ah
[14:05] <nucc1> that is a tab it seems for things on the internet you have +1'd
[14:05] <nucc1> mine has things i have forgotten about even
[14:06] <nucc1> i started using chrome because they handle security prompts and the green padlock a bit better than others
[15:17] <Myrtti> TIL what TWIMC means
[15:56] <mgdm> Myrtti: so did I, after googling :-)
[16:52] <zmoylan-pi> yogo... you only google once... :-)