/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/08/17/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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jdstrandhi!16:45
mdeslaur\o16:45
jdstrand#startmeeting16:45
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Aug 17 16:45:25 2015 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:45
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick16:45
jdstrandThe meeting agenda can be found at:16:45
jdstrand[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting16:45
jdstrand[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report16:45
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
jdstrandI'll go first16:45
jdstrandI'm working on tooling around the Built-Using field in Packages files so we can get good reporting for things like static golang builds. that will support an interim process for golang packages in main until the shared lib support for archive builds is finished16:47
jdstrandI'll be working on defining that interim process too16:47
jdstrandin addition, I'm participating in various MIR conversations/follow-ups16:48
jdstrandI've got design/doc reviews I need to get through16:48
jdstrandand an embargoed issue16:48
jdstrandthat's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up (note sb eattie is out)16:50
mdeslaurI'm on community this week, and triage too today and friday16:50
mdeslaurI have patch piloting tomorrow16:51
mdeslaurI'm currently publishing net-snmp CVEs16:51
mdeslaurand have an embargoed issue to work on to publish this week16:51
mdeslaurI have a trip report to write16:51
mdeslaurand after that, I'll continue going down the cve list16:51
mdeslaurthat's it from me16:51
mdeslauruh16:51
mdeslaursarnold: you're up16:51
sarnoldI'm in happy place this week; I'm travelling to linux plumbers for much of the week. I have some packages that I started working on for community last week to finish up today, an embargoed issue that needs some more discussion with the team, and start in on the juju MIR16:53
sarnoldthat's it for me, jjohansen?16:53
jdstrandI haven't seen jj this morning, let's move on to chrisccoulson16:58
chrisccoulsonThis week, I'll be getting thunderbird 38.2.0 out17:01
chrisccoulsonOther than that, I'll be working on Oxide bugs as best as I can without an internet connection17:01
chrisccoulsonI think that's me done17:01
jdstrand[TOPIC] Highlighted packages17:02
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
jdstrandThe Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.17:02
jdstrandSee https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.17:02
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/djbdns.html17:02
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libjboss-cache1-java.html17:02
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libnids.html17:02
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ircd-hybrid.html17:02
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dwarfutils.html17:02
jdstrand[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions17:02
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
jdstrandDoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?17:02
jdstrandmdeslaur, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!17:09
jdstrand#endmeeting17:09
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Aug 17 17:09:19 2015 UTC.17:09
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-17-16.45.moin.txt17:09
mdeslaurthanks jdstrand17:09
sarnoldthanks jdstrand!17:10
sil2100Hello o/19:00
bdmurrayHi, there are couple of conferences going on this week so I'm not certain how many dmb members will be available.19:01
cyphermoxI'm there19:03
bdmurraythere where?19:03
cyphermoxwell, at debconf, but also here.19:03
sil2100I was worried that there might not be enough DMB members around, since I supposed people will be socializing on debconf19:05
cyphermoxlooks not too bad right now19:06
cyphermoxlooks like sil2100's application is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukaszZemczak/CoreDeveloperApplication19:08
micahg_work!dmb-ping19:09
ubottucyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping19:09
sil2100Yes, I hope I wrote there everything that's needed19:10
sil2100ogra_ also was supposed to endorse me there, but he's really busy and didn't have enough time to do that yet19:10
* xnox is here now.19:13
xnoxwe need 4 for quorum, no?19:13
xnoxand we have 3?!19:14
bdmurrayo/19:14
sil2100I think there's 4 actually!19:14
* micahg_work is here19:14
xnoxah cool19:14
xnoxwho is chairing?19:14
* xnox it looks19:15
micahg_workxnox, you are according to the wiki :)19:15
xnox#startmeeting DMB19:15
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Aug 17 19:15:35 2015 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.19:15
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick19:15
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
xnox!dmb-ping19:15
ubottucyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping19:15
xnoxroll-call bdmurray cyphermox xnox micahg_work are present19:15
xnox#topic previous actions19:16
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: previous actions
xnoxbdmurray: micahg_work: there are previous actions on the agenda19:16
xnoxall done, or not so much?19:16
micahg_worknot so much :(19:17
* xnox doesn't see Unit193 around19:17
micahg_workmozc was in the packageset19:17
xnoxack.19:17
bdmurrayI setup a bzr branch although its not clear if that is sufficient or not.19:17
xnoxok.19:17
xnoxi don't see Unit19319:17
xnoxso i guess, move to sil2100 application19:17
bdmurrayI believe micahg_work pinged Unit19319:17
xnoxwell, we can keep that item on the agenda for the time being, i guess.19:18
xnox#topic Core Developer Application Łukasz Zemczak sil210019:18
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Core Developer Application Łukasz Zemczak sil2100
xnoxsil2100: hola! please introduce yourself and your application =)19:18
sil2100Hello dear DMB!19:19
xnoxhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukaszZemczak/CoreDeveloperApplication19:19
sil2100My name is Łukasz Zemczak, I'm a MOTU that would like to advance to a CoreDev19:19
xnoxAnd i see you have been motu for over a year now.19:20
sil2100Most of the time I'm dealing with touch packages, operating the CI Train, managing the touch seeds, managing image builds and channels, acting as one of the release managers of the touch stack19:20
sil2100I also have some experience with non-touch through patch pilot sessions19:20
sil2100I do them rarely, but I try to spend at least a few hours every now and then19:20
sil2100In the past it was more frequent, but after we got the few official ubuntu touch phones on the market I didn't have as much free cycles19:21
sil2100Becoming a CoreDev will also help me in my patch pilot duties, as there's more main packages on the sponsoring queue than universe usually ;)19:22
xnoxsil2100: ok. looking at your set of packages you work on, e.g. uploaded / synchronised list, they seem to be mostly universe things.19:23
xnoxsil2100: which main packages did you modify to date, and proud off, that got sponsored into ubuntu?19:23
sil2100hmm, that's a hard one, my memory is not so good, would have to think about that for a bit19:24
* xnox looks through your history.19:24
sil2100There weren't so many of those, I usually tried working in the fields where I can do the most, so universe - I helped out in some main transitions, but nothing that super specific19:24
sil2100There were a few during the libav11 transiiton too... there was also the upower transtion we did, but not sure if that counts as it was in the infameous ubuntu-rtm distro19:26
xnoxok, from renet there is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thumbnailer/1.2+14.10.20140901.is.1.2+14.10.20140814-0ubuntu1 in main19:27
xnoxit FTBFS across the board19:27
xnoxclick in utopic built https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/0.4.31.2.is.0.4.3019:27
xnoxrevert https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scopes-shell/0.5.4+14.10.20140820.is.0.5.3+14.10.20140806-0ubuntu119:27
xnoxin universe19:27
sil2100Yeah, the reverts are automatic creations from the CI Train tool19:28
xnoxsil2100: patch piloting can be done without upload rights -> cause most of things in the queue need review, comments, test building and +1. That would make it easier for those with upload rights, to quickly upload those things.19:28
sil2100All those funny ones with versioning of version.is.version - I don't remember what happened with that one, but it was probably one attempt in a crisis and trying to revert a really broken package19:28
cyphermoxthere's some older stuff in -changes emails I can see as qtbase-opensource-src/5.0.2+dfsg1-7ubuntu1819:29
sil2100xnox: yes, I know as other MOTUs do that as well, but I always thought that I'll be of more use if I decrease the queue itself by doing uploads19:29
sil2100If there were no urgent universe packages in the queue, I was moving to main ones, but that wasn't too frequent from my side19:30
cyphermoxsil2100: so, how would you say the CI Train work of reviewing others' package prepare you for having permission to upload any package in the Ubuntu archive?19:30
cyphermoxI think since this is a particularly unusual situation in where you don't necessarily get to upload many things yourself because it goes through CI Train, but you do see a whole lot of stuff and people go to you for help19:31
xnoxsil2100: from what i can see, there aren't many things in main that you have been working on. and most of your work is based on reviews & landing other peoples code. I wouldn't feel confident granting main upload rights for all packages, without much evidence of working on main packages.19:31
cyphermoxI'm not sure what precedent we may or may not want to make, but I think it probably warrants discussion.19:31
sil2100It gives me an overall idea of possible packaging issues and problems that inexperienced developers were having19:31
sil2100We're using the CI Train for main packages most of the time, so most of the main uploads I do I drive them through the CI Train19:32
xnoxsil2100: can you list some reasons for a package to FTBFS?19:32
sil2100Every main upload needs to be ACKed by a core-dev, but before that happens I have to do a review of it19:32
bdmurrayDo you have examples of those reviews?19:33
cyphermoxsil2100: would you have examples of things that went particularly *not* well through the CI Train that you caught too late, or whatnot, that could have been handled differently?19:33
cyphermox(or examples of outstanding work via...)19:33
sil2100One of the most common reasons for a FTBFS of a new package is the lack of build-dependencies or invalid versions of such - another can be a change in the toolchain, or even an unnoticed ABI break in one of the dependent packages19:33
sil2100Usually the last one is caught by symbol files in our packages19:34
xnoxsil2100: why did this package FTBFS? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/214593878/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-amd64.gunicorn_19.0-6ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz19:35
sil2100sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy : Depends: tox but it is not installable <- from the first look it seems that there's a dependency problem19:36
sil2100But I would need to check what sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy is and what's the tux dep it has, and why it's not installable19:36
xnoxsil2100: what is sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy?19:36
xnoxsil2100: by the way, tox is installble in wily.19:37
sil2100Sometimes when it's not super obvious on first glance, I run a chroot for the given system and try to install the build deps as the build machine does19:37
sil2100Let me check19:37
xnoxi can do that, just did, tox is intallable.19:37
xnoxwhy would a tox be installable locally in a chroot, but wouldn't be installable in launchpad during a particular package build?19:38
xnoxby the way, which package is being built now?19:38
xnox(now, as in, in the above changelog)19:38
sil2100dpkg-deb: building package 'sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy'19:38
sil2100And a package can be uninstallable with other packages, for instance19:38
sil2100Because of a conflict19:39
xnoxtrue, but there is no conflict here, and apt would say about it.19:39
xnoxby the way package 'sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy' -> is not the one being built here.19:39
sil2100The build log is in overall from the gunicorn19:40
sil2100package19:40
xnoxok.19:40
xnoxcorrect.19:40
sil2100Checking the source if you don't mind19:40
xnoxyeah, you can look at anything =)19:41
xnoxand the build fails at: Install gunicorn build dependencies (apt-based resolver), stage of sbuild19:41
xnoxwith failing to install tox.19:41
xnoxbtw. sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy is what it says on the tin, a dummy package sbuild generates to install build dependencies of gunicorn. Kind of a hack, because one cannot do apt-get build-dep against an unpacked source package =(, `apt-get build-dep` only works against packages that are already built and published in the archive.19:42
xnoxsil2100: which component of the archive is gunicorn in?19:43
sil2100Ok, this is something I did not know, ugh19:44
sil2100It's a main component19:44
xnoxsil2100: ok. and which component is tox in?19:44
sil2100Ah, universe! A main-mismatch!19:45
xnoxsil2100: how do i check components of packages from command line?19:45
sil2100Interesting though, as usually in the past builds didn't fail because of that, I remember we had multiple cases where people had main packages depping on universe and we only caught it right before publishing19:46
sil2100BUt that's probably because we built everything in PPAs19:46
sil2100And those don't have the checkbox for checking this checked by default19:46
sil2100xnox: I usually use rmadison for this19:46
sil2100Although it tends to be slow nowadays19:46
xnoxsil2100: ok.19:47
xnoxsil2100: where would you check all "main-mismatch" in the archive?19:48
sil2100http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt <- there's this place here, but there's also e-mails sent on each new one19:49
xnoxsil2100: ok. and you know about graphical output for them as well, there is .svg about it19:50
xnoxsil2100: and there is also a separate one generated for -proposed19:50
sil2100Yeah, all in the http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive place19:50
xnoxsil2100: i would recomend to check those out, and see if you can prepare uploads to resolve those, and or file MIR.19:51
xnoxsil2100: have you filed MIR before?19:51
micahg_workis there a tool that you can use to see if all of the dependencies for a package are in main/restricted?19:51
sil2100xnox: yes, a few ones I remember, most for touch packages of course...19:51
sil2100micahg_work: check-mir :)19:52
xnoxok. good.19:52
micahg_workyep!19:52
xnoxsil2100: what is NBS? how to resolve them?19:52
sil2100didrocks whipped me in the past for not using it19:52
sil2100I remember that being Not Buildable from Source, but I need to think what it was about19:53
sil2100*built19:53
xnoxgood19:53
sil2100I don't think I resolved any of those before though...19:53
xnoxhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html19:54
cyphermoxsil2100: did you help out with the gcc5 transition?19:54
sil2100cyphermox: not too much... I was doing some work uploading/merging changes from the transition itself and helped out developers with packaging questions19:54
sil2100But not as much as I would like19:55
cyphermoxit's fine, I'm just trying to figure things out19:55
sil2100xnox: I suppose NBSes might be cases when certain packages depend on some binary packages that are no longer provided by source packages?19:56
sil2100(a bit guessing here)19:56
xnoxsil2100: correct.19:56
sil2100In that case I suppose those can be resolved by either adding transitional packages or, if a package got renamed, maybe adding a Provides and making those virtual?19:56
sil2100(or for the case the same functionality is provided by a different package now)19:57
xnoxsil2100: no. usually what needs to be done, is those dependand package need to be rebuild to depend on new package names, and/or drop the dependencies.19:57
sil2100Oh, yeah, the easy way, I think I went overboard with that idea19:58
DalekSecxnox: Sorry I didn't get the pint (I'm Unit193)19:58
xnoxsil2100: e.g. maas-enlist-udeb needs to be rebuild to start depending on e.g. libcurl3-udeb.19:58
xnoxsil2100: my expectation from a core developer, to know about at least one thing at a proficient level: sbuild logs, components mismatches, NBS.19:58
xnoxsil2100: none of those things are typically encountered by universe / motu, developers as these things are either exclusive or have higher priority in main.19:59
sil2100Maybe I could gain some points by my experience with dealin with -proposed migration update_excuses and update_output ;p?20:00
sil2100*dealing20:00
xnoxsil2100: i would expect you to work on resolving NBS, filing/follwing up on MIR reports, and/or resolving components-missmatches by e.g. moving optional build-dependencies for test-suites only into adt tests.20:00
sil2100I never resolved NBS as is, but I did similar work during the few transitions I was doing, as there were always a lot of rdeps to rebuild and change dependencies20:01
xnoxsil2100: yes, ultimately. things like nbs/components-missmatches end up entangling and keeping packages stuck in proposed migration.20:02
xnoxsil2100: and fixing proposed migration, especially during current gcc5 transition was what most core devs have been working on past few weeks.20:02
xnoxsil2100: i really think you should do get experience with those tools and reports, before i would vote +1 on your application.20:03
sil2100Ok, I understand...20:03
xnoxdo other people have more questions, or can we vote on the application?20:04
sil2100I know it's bad I'm rather concentrated on touch packages20:05
xnox!dmb-ping20:05
ubottucyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping20:05
xnoxare we ready to vote?20:05
sil2100I did try to help out with some transitions for experience though, and also I got some experience with resolving packages being blocked in -proposed20:06
* bdmurray is still here20:08
xnoxsil2100: do more of that. keep notes, get those uploads sponsored and keep a list. If you can demostrate that to us, for example i would be in favor voting +1 on your application very soon (e.g. within 1-3 months, as you have enough things to demonstrate)20:08
xnoxsil2100: i am confident in the rest of your skills and general programming. it's the coredev specific things, that i see you as lacking deep experience in.20:09
sil2100Ok :)20:09
sil2100Thanks20:09
xnoxbut today will be a -1 from me.20:11
xnox#vote sil2100 for Core Dev application20:14
meetingologyPlease vote on: sil2100 for Core Dev application20:14
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)20:14
xnox!dmb-ping20:14
xnox-120:14
meetingology-1 received from xnox20:14
micahg_work+020:16
meetingology+0 received from micahg_work20:16
bdmurray+020:16
meetingology+0 received from bdmurray20:16
cyphermoxsorry20:16
cyphermox+020:16
meetingology+0 received from cyphermox20:16
bdmurrayI'd like to echo what xnox said though.20:16
micahg_workme too20:16
sil2100Ok... thanks20:17
xnox#endvote20:18
meetingologyVoting ended on: sil2100 for Core Dev application20:18
meetingologyVotes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:320:18
meetingologyMotion denied20:18
xnoxsil2100: please follow advice above, and we hope to see you reapply soon!20:18
xnox#action xnox to update wiki with good examples of core-dev work, on the above guidance to sil210020:19
meetingologyACTION: xnox to update wiki with good examples of core-dev work, on the above guidance to sil210020:19
sil2100Will do20:19
xnoxsince inception of core-dev a lot of things have changed, and it's good to have that documented.20:20
xnox#topic AOB20:20
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
cyphermoxmicahg_work: did N o s k c a j get his feedback after all?20:22
micahg_workno :(20:23
micahg_workbut I did chat with him a little and let him know that we haven't forgotten20:23
cyphermoxok20:24
xnox#endmeeting20:24
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Aug 17 20:24:46 2015 UTC.20:24
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-17-19.15.moin.txt20:24
micahg_workthanks xnox20:26

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