[06:01] <Kilos> hi barrydk and everyone else
[06:01] <Kilos> inetpro  included of course
[06:24] <Kilos> hi thatgraemeguy 
[06:25] <thatgraemeguy> g'day
[06:30] <barrydk> Morning everyone
[06:41] <inetpro> oh my, hello oom Kilos
[06:41] <inetpro> and good mornings to everyone else as well
[06:41] <Kilos> lol
[06:41] <Kilos> dag boetie
[07:18] <Squirm> <orning
[07:18] <Squirm> Morning even
[07:18] <Kilos> hi Squirm 
[07:49] <thatgraemeguy> http://lists.clug.org.za/pipermail/clug-work/2015-August/001359.html <-- I think this email got stuck in a time warp somewhere and just got released 15 years late
[07:50] <Kilos> haha
[07:53] <MaNI> wait what,t hey are upgrading to win2k? :P
[07:54] <thatgraemeguy> yeah
[07:54] <thatgraemeguy> and samba 3
[07:54] <thatgraemeguy> which is nearly as old
[07:55] <thatgraemeguy> this guy is clearly a time traveller
[07:55] <Kilos> rlfl
[07:55] <Kilos> rofl
[08:01] <Squirm> thatgraemeguy: saw that too
[08:42] <gremble> Good morning
[08:44] <Kilos> hi gremble deegee 
[09:37] <Padroni> hi
[10:20] <superfly> hey Padroni
[10:34] <thatgraemeguy> Hiiiiiiii
[10:35] <thatgraemeguy> phew, awfully chatty in here today
[10:36] <inetpro> why?
[12:35] <Kilos> hmm... ballie nap time methinks
[13:27] <cyrilb> hi guys
[13:27] <cyrilb> who's coming tonight for the Drupal meetup?
[13:35] <superfly> cyrilb: SubOracle might
[13:35] <superfly> cyrilb: I'm in Cape Town
[13:41] <cyrilb> OK
[14:30] <GnikLlort> omfg
[14:31] <GnikLlort> someone set fire to a buss here
[14:32] <cyrilb> I feel at home then
[14:32] <cyrilb> it looks like Paris
[14:32] <gremble> Busses are on fire in Paris?
[14:35] <GnikLlort> lol
[14:36] <gremble> Where is here, where the bus is on fire, GnikLlort?
[14:36] <cyrilb> @gremble  some people express their angry feelings that way
[14:36] <GnikLlort> George
[14:37] <cyrilb> https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=paris+bus+burning&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMI4vfruq-1xwIVhNIaCh1hRARb&biw=1329&bih=686
[14:42] <gremble> I'm not sure whether it is appropriate. However, I should not comment, I have not tried it yet.
[14:43] <gremble> I'm listening to the audiobook Metamorphosis of Kafka, it is quite good
[14:55] <GnikLlort> ffs
[14:56] <GnikLlort> Thy closed off half of the city
[14:56] <GnikLlort> now night shift are going to be late
[14:56] <gremble> George is tiny though. You can probably feel the fire over most parts of the city :P
[14:57] <GnikLlort> tbh yea lmfao
[14:57] <GnikLlort> but city is getting bigger
[17:02] <GnikLlort> have to work a damn dubble
[17:17] <Squirm> How is everyone?
[17:50] <inetpro> good and you Squirm 
[17:50] <inetpro> ? 
[17:51] <inetpro> you been scarce lately 
[17:56] <Squirm> Yeah, but am doing well
[18:02] <Kilos> evening all and night all. sleep tight
[18:03]  * Kilos tired kinda. you all be good
[18:26] <kulelu88> superfly: how difficult is it to format a string to become an array of 5 or 6 items that are then stored in a numpy array? 
[18:27] <superfly> kulelu88: are you going to be doing the conversion to an array?
[18:29] <kulelu88> superfly: the issue is that some parts of the string need to be converted first. for eg. the first item is the datetime, which I am converting into a datetime object, then I need to split out the 5 other parts so that they are detected properly
[18:31] <superfly> kulelu88: datetime.isoformat()
[18:31] <superfly> and then the iso8601 (i think) module
[18:32] <superfly> kulelu88: I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to do
[18:34] <kulelu88> superfly: I have a log file, which I want to convert (each line) into a set of 6 objects in an array, then I will store each array of 6 objects into a giant array
[18:36] <superfly> sounds simple enough, what's the problem?
[18:38] <kulelu88> superfly: well it's not so simple due to the formatting of each line. would regex work best for identifying each piece of the string? 
[18:38] <kulelu88> *each piece of the line/string ?
[18:39] <superfly> kulelu88: http://image.slidesharecdn.com/regexpsecrets-130228042149-phpapp02/95/regexp-secrets-6-638.jpg?cb=1362026041
[18:39] <superfly> having said that... I do use regex
[18:39] <kulelu88> hahaha
[18:39] <kulelu88> regex is shit, but i use it sometimes
[18:40] <superfly> kulelu88: can you give me a copy of a couple of lines?
[18:40] <kulelu88> sure. let me format it though, otherwise my boss may smash me
[18:49] <kulelu88> superfly: https://pastee.org/xndce
[18:56] <kulelu88> superfly: please don't be writing any code, this is a learning experience for me :P
[18:56] <superfly> naw, I got stuck watching an indian movie...
[18:57] <kulelu88> which one? haha
[18:58] <superfly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVfScHifIi4
[19:00] <superfly> that doesn't look too hard to parse
[19:00] <superfly> I'd separate by space, then join the first two and parse using iso8601
[19:00] <kulelu88> lmao, thats a tamil movie I think
[19:00] <superfly> it's a spoof comedy
[19:01] <superfly> just watched a bit of it, but I (obviously) can't follow
[19:02] <kulelu88> no subtitles?
[19:02] <superfly> couldn't find any
[19:02] <superfly> reminds me of Kung Fu Hustle and Shaolin Soccer
[19:02] <gremble> o/
[19:02] <kulelu88> Kung Fu Hustle was legendary
[19:03] <kulelu88> superfly: how would you handle the last part, as the message may contain spaces?
[19:05] <kulelu88> gremble: \o
[19:06] <gremble> consume the log bit by bit, and when you have the info divided by spaces, spit the rest out as a "rest" 
[19:07] <superfly> kulelu88: something like that
[19:07] <superfly> however, it's probably a bit easier to use regex ;-)
[19:08] <gremble> One day I will be able to use regex :P
[19:09] <kulelu88> I use regex to filter through DB output. I hate the \ format so I preferably use the . format
[19:10] <gremble> Don't you filter db output with your SQL commands?
[19:10] <superfly> ^(\d\d\d\d-\d\d-\d\d \d\d:\d\d:\d\d) (.*?)-(.*?) (.*?) (.*?): (.*)$
[19:10] <kulelu88> gremble: not when you need to download DB dumps and scan them manually
[19:10] <gremble> Ah
[19:10] <superfly> I used \d multiple times because it's less than writing \d{2} - takes up 5 chars instead of 4
[19:11] <kulelu88> the weird part about superflys regex is that I understand it :D
[19:11] <kulelu88> :"""""""""""D
[19:11] <gremble> Ya, that is not difficult
[19:12] <gremble> Since regex is turing complete, I am quite sure you can get more complex versions of it
[19:12] <gremble> :P
[19:12] <kulelu88> more complex regex #fml
[19:14] <superfly> by the way guys, if you ever want a free SSL certificate, use https://www.startssl.com/
[19:14] <superfly> you gotta jump through a couple of hoops to get there, but it's worth not paying truckloads of money for a stupid text file
[19:15] <kulelu88> doesn't komodo sell them for $2 per year now?
[19:15] <gremble> Bleh reminds me I have to update my bolg 
[19:18] <kulelu88> bolg?
[19:18] <kulelu88> :P
[19:19] <superfly> kulelu88: do you really want an already compromised certificate?
[19:20] <kulelu88> NSA compromised? superfly 
[19:20] <gremble> Precompromised seems like it saves you the trouble of having it compromised yourself
[19:20] <gremble> :P
[19:20] <superfly> nope, Comodo had a security breach about 2 years ago, and didn't tell anyone about it
[19:20] <superfly> it came out months later
[19:21] <kulelu88> wouldn't they then be obliged to pay that $1 million dollar thing SSL certificates offer?
[19:21] <superfly> The Dutch government had purchased all their certs from Comodo, and immediately revoked them all and bought new ones from somewhere else...
[19:22] <kulelu88> security on the internet is so complicated 
[19:22] <kulelu88> SSH, SSL, PGP and yet none of it is 100% secure
[19:25] <gremble> theoretically, we try it to be sound, but unfortunately it is implemented by people that make mistakes. So most of the time it is not the protocol that is broken, but the implementation. Meaty bits are the squishy bits
[19:25] <gremble> PEBKAC 
[19:27] <kulelu88> I think once you understand cryptography in programming, you have reached a zenith of knowledge :P
[19:28] <gremble> I'll let you know
[19:28] <gremble> :P
[19:30] <MaNI> meh, cryptography is more math than programming
[19:31] <kulelu88> is the biggest weakness in SSH your passphrase? 
[19:32] <MaNI> not at all
[20:54] <DalekSec> Pasphrase?  People don't just use keys these days?
[20:55] <kulelu88> perhaps...
[20:58] <gremble> I have a key and a passphrase for the key
[20:59] <kulelu88> if a key is stolen, having a passphrase helps, no?
[21:36] <superfly> I think my PC just upgraded to Plasma 5...
[21:37] <gremble> You think so?
[21:37] <superfly> mmmm
[21:37] <superfly> I did an update && upgrade, it borked
[21:37] <superfly> and then I did a fix and I'm continuing another upgrade
[21:38] <superfly> and I saw a whole lot of my packages being removed, and a whole lot more being installed which said "libkf5" or something -- kde frameworks 5
[21:38] <superfly> gremble: I'm on Debian unstable
[21:39] <superfly> the upgrade to systemd was similar
[21:40] <gremble> I can't even remember my upgrade to systemd it was sort of "congrats, running systemd now. Remember to update your init scripts to units"
[21:40] <kulelu88> I don't know what I'll do when LTS 14.04 ends
[21:40] <gremble> Move to the next lts?
[21:40] <kulelu88> im not going near systemd
[21:41] <gremble> systemd is easy
[21:41] <gremble> so I have no qualms
[21:41] <kulelu88> and bloated
[21:41] <gremble> You're running a full ubuntu distro
[21:41] <gremble> I don't think the bloat is that much worse
[21:41] <gremble> :P
[21:42] <gremble> Unless you are running LFS on embedded, bloat is not really such a big deal
[21:42] <gremble> The main concern is probably binary logging and thus the corruptability of the logs
[21:42] <kulelu88> the lack of choice bugs me. 
[21:42] <kulelu88> I dont want it, but its been forced on to everyone through a split vote of 5 people
[21:43] <gremble> Just uninstall it and pin SysV or init or runrc, runit, upstart or whatever your heart desires?
[21:43] <kulelu88> you can't without breaking it
[21:43] <kulelu88> or so i've heard
[21:43] <gremble> You can. Unless you want to use gnome
[21:43] <gremble> gnome requires systemd
[21:44] <kulelu88> gnome is from gnu right?
[21:44] <gremble> Nope
[21:44] <gremble> Gnome is from the gnome foundation
[21:44] <DalekSec> kulelu88: Did you know that before systemd, ubuntu used upstart and you in fact couldn't use anything but upstart?
[21:44] <kulelu88> but less on that flame war. have people been joining tuxlug?
[21:45] <gremble> nope
[21:45] <gremble> Just me and inetpro 
[21:45] <gremble> haha
[21:45] <kulelu88> DalekSec: not until now
[21:45] <gremble> ubuntu also wanted to do mir
[21:45] <gremble> and tell everyone with their X and wayland to f right off
[21:45] <gremble> :P
[21:46] <kulelu88> The more I learn about Ubuntu, the more I dislike a lot of what they do. if they want to be Red Hat, they should go fullswing at it
[21:46] <DalekSec> gremble: Wants to do Mir, still activly developed, perhaps targetting the phone more but nevertheless.  And it wasn't quite like that, no.
[21:48] <gremble> I may be slightly hyperbolic :P
[21:48] <kulelu88> mathematicians... pssshhtt
[21:49] <gremble> Let's not go off on a tangent
[21:51] <kulelu88> whoa DalekSec is an Ubuntu member :P
[21:51] <DalekSec> As are plenty of others.
[21:52] <gremble> I think the pertinent question is, is whether DalekKhan is
[21:53] <gremble> Caan even
[21:55] <kulelu88> dalek is an awesome name. 
[21:56] <DalekSec> Not if I exterminated him.
[21:56] <gremble> If you're true to canon, you did
[21:56] <gremble> and I was sad
[21:57] <superfly> The reality is, Canonical has a point with Mir. Wayland has been in development for twice as long as Mir, and they're not even halfway close to as complete.
[21:58] <superfly> AND, Wayland is basically an integrated X server and client
[21:58] <gremble> I thought I would have wayland by the next time I reinstall and I didn't. So I'm getting used to having X around for a while still :P
[21:58] <superfly> gremble: I don't think you understand... do you remember XFree86 ?
[21:59] <superfly> sjoe, look at the time, I need to go to bed
[21:59] <gremble> I don't know. Chances are that it is before my time
[21:59] <gremble> xD
[21:59] <superfly> gremble: X.org was forked from XFree86 because XFree86 was not going anywhere, and some of the developers wanted development to move faster.
[22:00] <gremble> Looong before my time then
[22:00] <superfly> And everyone got excited because, "finally, we're going to have a less useless windowing system"
[22:00] <superfly> yeah. we've been waiting.
[22:00] <kulelu88> so Mir and Wayland are improvements on X?
[22:00] <gremble> So is windowing such a difficult problem?
[22:00] <superfly> then a pocket of X.org devs said, "this architecture sucks! let's make a better X"... and so we're still waiting for Wayland
[22:01] <superfly> gremble: no. this is what's ridiculous.
[22:01] <kulelu88> sounds like over-engineering then
[22:01] <superfly> and why I'm actually really interested in Mir. Canonical might have cheesed people off, but I completely understand WHY.
[22:02] <superfly> anyway, I must head to bed
[22:02] <gremble> So. Let's make our own. We'll call it Xaymirland
[22:02] <gremble> Cheers superfly 
[22:03] <kulelu88> gremble: thats probably how most (marginal) software efforts start. "fuck these guys, let me roll my own"
[22:03] <gremble> It is indeed
[22:03] <gremble> Look at neovim :P
[22:03] <DalekSec> There's security benefits to Mir/Wayland, I'd think Ubuntu/Canonical wants more control over it because of the phone, but the CLA isn't going to help.  There's benefits and drawbacks to Mir/Wayland.
[22:04] <kulelu88> DalekSec: what is wrong with X itself? where is the architecture flawed?
[22:05] <kulelu88> I know I can't use 2 different "views" on 2 connected screens, but that is an artificial X-issue that a manual fix can get around
[22:47] <gremble> I am going to do the sleep thing now, before I stay up too late
[22:47] <gremble> Cheers guys