sithlord48because the thumbnailer determines what to parse by ext (if it has one ) if not it looks at the file info00:00
misternoit says contents: image/png00:00
misternoit knows it's png00:00
TJ-misterno: it's called magic00:00
misternoand this thumbnailer can be configured?00:00
misternoTJ- im sure it is :)00:00
sithlord48in dolphin00:00
misternothis could be intended though00:00
sithlord48dolphins config under general tab iirc00:00
misternoso that you know your file has wrong extension00:00
sithlord48but jpg is not on the list iirc00:01
sithlord48because it should be jpeg00:01
TJ-misterno: it is... please see "man 5 magic"00:01
misternosithlord48 ok let me check00:01
sithlord48misterno:  please when using kde take you time to explore all the settings and configure how you like . kde is set with its defaults it may or may not work how you like by default00:02
TJ-'magic' is used by the system tools to identify file content, regardless of name/extension. *nix file systems do not treat '.extensions' special00:02
sithlord48kde is very configureable (and i mean all kde programs not just desktop )00:02
misternosithlord48 i'm trying to explore as many options as i can but can't explore all00:03
sithlord48idk why the parser even does it by ext maybe it was easier that way00:03
sithlord48misterno:  in due time you will00:03
misternosithlord48 is this called "previews"00:04
misternoi think you misunderstood then00:04
misternojpg are selected00:05
misternosorry i meant jpeg images00:05
sithlord48it works if you have a .jpg in a folder where you have preview just not if you rename00:05
misternothat was my point00:05
misternosystem knows it's png and it can show the thumbnail or preview as you call it, but it decided because it's wrong extension name that it wont00:06
sithlord48im guessing because if you name it .jpg it trys to parse the png using jpg tools...00:06
sithlord48like i said earily the thumbnail parser is not magical00:06
misternowhy not?00:07
misternocould this be intended behavior?00:07
sithlord48it is .. like i said above if you name it .jpg it tries to use the jpeg parser on the png. how well do u think it works00:09
sithlord48be happy it don't crash and just gives you a generic icon .00:09
misternoit's one thing to be limited in what code can do but not necessarily intended, it's another to limit it by intention00:09
misternothat's why i ask00:09
sithlord48i don't know but heres what we can tell00:10
misternoi have thumbnails in windows and apps that parse them and they dont care about extension00:10
sithlord48the thumbnail previewer sets what it previews by ext .. so therefore we can assume that is also picks the parser for the file  based on ext.00:10
sithlord48and i have had updates take hours on windows ...00:11
misternoi renamed jpg file in windows to png and it still shows thumbnail00:11
misternodo i have to say it00:11
misternoim not saying because windows does it, it must be so :)00:12
misternobut im curious00:12
sithlord48your maiking poor assumption that all similar software should act the same00:12
misternono, im inquiring about differences00:12
misternothere is a reason why would thing be certain way in lets say windows00:13
sithlord48i didn't write dolpin or the thumbnailer so idk for sure why but you know the best part is you can go get the code and learn how it does it if you want to know00:13
misternoand when comparing differences it's not poor to ask why is this different00:13
sithlord48i can only guess that it goes by ext and since png are not jpgs when it trys to parse with the wrong libary it fails and give a defalut icon00:13
sithlord48maybe it works on windows because they have one libary taht parses all the file types based on file magic00:14
misternoit seems to me it's no technical difficulty to parse image regardless of extension so im assuming this was intended00:14
sithlord48if you change the ext it will still in the file start with some magic numbers00:14
misternobut considering how little i know linux im not sure :P00:14
sithlord48well if it sends a jpg to the png parser its gonna fail00:15
sithlord48since its uses the ext to pick the parser00:15
misternoit wouldnt be difficult to code it to be sent to correct parser would it :P00:16
sithlord48well seams you would have to waste time checking the magic00:17
misternothe point being?00:17
sithlord48it takes longer to run00:17
sithlord48x10000 images in a dir...00:17
misternoim sorry but i cant buy this as excuse00:18
sithlord48again i didn't write dolphin or the thumbnail parser i can only guess.00:18
misternothat's what im doing too00:18
misternoim guesing and asking for opinions to guess too00:18
sithlord48if it takes 1/4 second longer per file over many files that time adds up to way to long to render the contents of the dir00:18
misternounless someone actually knows00:19
misternoyou are looking at it somewhat misleading00:19
sithlord48how so00:19
misternoit's a technical issue that if wanted surely can be solved00:19
misternoso i find it irrelevant pointing how it takes longer and whatnot00:19
misternoim looking past the code00:20
misternoand simply wondering maybe it's intended00:20
sithlord48um software is technical . and when designing it you make design choices of a technial nature. sometimes it speed vs odd feature.00:20
misternonow there is a chance that the actual reason could be what you said "takes longer" i just find it hard to believe00:20
misternowhy would on windows it work and they wouldnt have problems with taking longer?00:21
misternoor maybe they do00:21
misternowindows creates thumbnails cache00:21
misternoso only first time its slow00:21
sithlord48cause microsoft don't care if it just hangs when reading a dir..00:21
misternohere is possibly without cache?00:22
sithlord48there are cache but idk about for thumbnails00:22
misternosithlord48 this isn't even about microsoft00:22
misternothere are third party utilities that parse thumbnails00:22
misternoand still do it00:22
sithlord48no it is because its a design choice to pick one way over the other . thats is all it is00:22
misternoi can have video file rename ext from lets say mpg to avi and it will still show correct thumbnail00:23
misternoclearly this can be done00:23
sithlord48ok maybe they have once large lib linked parser where dolphins loads up a kio by type to parse it00:23
sithlord48one is more memory use the other smaller memory use00:23
misternoit's third party utilities00:23
misternoi dunno what are their technicalities00:24
sithlord48k then sub microsoft for 3rd party dev00:24
misternothey take couple of MB00:24
misterno to install00:24
misternoyou are being defensive again00:24
misternowho cares about microsoft00:24
sithlord48not defensive at all ?00:24
misternoyea you are00:24
misternoat one mention of windows or microsoft everyone turns incredibly defensive00:25
sithlord48i was saying above if its made by 3rd party then the 3rd party don't care if when browsing a large dir their parse takes longer00:25
misternoif windows can have it CLEARLY it's not such huge technical issue00:25
misternoas you present it00:25
misternono matter how much you try to make it look like that00:25
sithlord48design choice not technical issue.00:25
misternocould be00:25
sithlord48i don't know why i didn't write it but i can assure you its a design choice . when you make those choices you have a reason sometimes as bad as that is how i did it sometimes it for a good reason00:26
misternois dolphin similar to explorer.exe in windows in terms of servicing whole OS00:28
sithlord48no dolphin is a file browser00:28
misternoso if i get another file browser it would have different thumbnail views because it doesnt use dolphin to parse, it would have to have it's own parser00:28
sithlord48it might not have any00:29
misternoor would it be the same00:29
sithlord48idk dolphin may use a parsing lib00:29
misternoi must say i like dolphin a lot00:30
sithlord48youll find in linux many things are done the unix way00:30
misternoseems to be very well designed in terms of it's functionality and UI00:30
sithlord48that is programs interact with one another to do new things00:30
misternoand im trying to get used to one click to run files00:30
misternoalthough it's cumbersome at first and i make many mistakes00:31
sithlord48you can change that00:31
misternoi know00:31
misternobut im trying to learn and get the sense and feel of how it is the other way :)00:31
misternoso that after a while i can asses which one is more usable00:31
sithlord48KDE and the KDE programs are all for you configuring them how you want00:31
misternoat first i thought it was ridiculous to single click open00:31
misternotill i realized hot stop in top left corner00:32
misternoit wasnt very visible00:32
sithlord48i perfer single click but i long time use linux as my main os00:32
misternosingle click seems more dangerous cause you have to be more precise regarding selecting files00:32
misternobut i need to give it more time00:32
misternoafter all it just might be different that's all00:32
sithlord48im mostly a kbd user single click is ok w/ me00:33
misternoim the other way00:33
misternoif there's a usable way to use a mouse with one hand only why use 2 hands on keyboard00:34
sithlord48nope i don't like that mouse takes up to much time to get hands off the kbd00:34
misternothat's why there is little room for middle ground00:34
misternoeither you go all the way mouse00:35
misternoor probably all the way keyboard00:35
sithlord48this one has a touch screen but i don;t use it ever00:35
misternooh is there no shortcut when deleting to avoid trashbin?00:36
sithlord48i use the terminal often yakuake is the first think i install on new machines.00:36
misternohmm im trying it and nothing00:37
sithlord48odd works here00:37
misternooh it works in dolphin but it doesn't work on desktop when in folder view00:38
sithlord48ah yes iin dolphin00:39
misternoi like how pretty all icons and thumbnailing is by default in kubuntu00:40
misternoi really really like the OS00:40
sithlord48you can change the way it looks if you want00:41
sithlord48the os part is linux00:41
sithlord48the desktop parts are kde00:41
misternoyes i was doing it in mint00:41
misternoat first mint looked super good00:41
misternobut this is better00:41
misternolooks more modern00:41
sithlord48what mint did you use the cinnimon desktop one ?00:41
misternoyeah the latest, 17.02 i think00:41
misternocinnamon is good00:42
misternobut not as good as this00:42
misternoi mean just looks wise00:42
sithlord48yeah kde is great00:43
misternoplus it seems kubuntu runs slightly faster in VM than mint cinnamon00:43
sithlord48plasma5 and KF5 are shaping up nicely for being still pretty new00:43
misternothat's my subjective feel00:43
sithlord48native it runs even faster00:43
misternoi just wish taskbar (bottom panel) would have slightly larger icons00:45
sithlord48ok click on the menu button on the task bar and make it taller the icons will grow00:45
misternoi did that00:45
misternoand wasn't very happy with result so i say i wish icons were even larger00:45
sithlord48are you talking about the task area?00:46
misternotask icons yes, i made them look like windows ones so that they are without labels00:46
sithlord48you might be able to configure that widget or replace it i use the icon only one show an icon at the height of the panel00:46
misternoive looked through all the options00:47
misternoand the only thing is resizing panel as a whole00:47
misternobut icons have weird scaling when resizing00:47
sithlord48did u configure the normal task bar to have no words?00:47
misternofirst they enlarge then they go smaller then they enlarge again00:47
misternothis is my VM in window mode so a bit smaller http://s9.postimg.org/gb846fbfj/screenshot_13.png00:48
misternoicons are just a tad smaller than i would want them too00:48
misternobut i dont want to make panel too wide or high because i lose too much desktop area then00:49
sithlord48you can auto hide the panel00:49
misternodont like it00:49
misternonever liked that option in windows either00:49
sithlord48i always hide the panel00:49
misternofor me it's annoying00:50
sithlord48to me its annoying having that space always taken up i can get that much taller windows with it hidden00:50
misternothere is a certain size of panel when icons turn into smaller versions00:51
misternothen they are very ugly and difficult to recognize00:51
misternothe height of my panel is just a tick above that size00:51
sithlord48yeah maybe becuase that app doesnt have an icon for that size and uses a smaller one00:51
misternobut overall it looks very similar to windows 10 taskbar now00:52
misternooh, peek previews are too big!00:52
misternoand windows previews are annoying00:52
sithlord48i turn that off00:52
misternowhich ones peek or windows previews?00:52
sithlord48what do u mean by peek?00:53
misternopeek previews are when you hover over task icon in panel then preview thumnail shows up00:53
sithlord48those are off00:53
sithlord48and windows previews are ?00:53
misternothat's how windows have them00:53
misternothis is windows previews00:54
sithlord48alt tab or mouse up in the corner?00:54
misternosorry i named it wrong, it's called "Present windows"00:54
sithlord48oh yeah that i have on00:55
misternoit happens when you have multiple tasks grouped under one icon00:55
misternothen if you click on it will give you present windows00:55
misternobut that is pointless since there are peek previews00:55
sithlord48i have mine off00:56
misternobut unfortunately both views are connected to same option "present windows" so either both are off or both are on00:56
misternocant have one without the other00:56
sithlord48they are annoying i know what the programs look like and its not like they are large enuff to read anything usefull from them00:56
sithlord48no you can turn off peek in system settings -> desktop behavior -> workspace . uncheck show informational tips00:57
misternopeek previews are actually useful http://s9.postimg.org/b2d38jt0f/screenshot_15.png00:57
misternoi just wish the big ones wouldnt show when i click on icon00:57
sithlord48so click the window you want on teh peek then00:58
misternoi wish it would be: you click on grouped task icon, these peek previews show up and you just click on preview you want to activate00:58
misternothat way it doesnt take whole window and thumnail is more than often enough to know which one you want00:58
misternoalthough these peek previews are just a tad too big00:58
misternotheres wasted area around thumbnail making it bigger00:59
misternosithlord48 but you see you cant get peek previews by clicking grouped icon00:59
misternoif you click grouped icon you get those full screen present windows00:59
sithlord48yeah and you pick one00:59
misternoso you need to hover your mouse till peek previews show00:59
misternoyea but im saying the big ones are annoying01:00
sithlord48they are almost instant on my machine01:00
misternoi don't want peeks to be instant01:00
misternothat's annoying too01:00
sithlord48yeah i just alt+tab . i think its kinda cool01:00
misternoalt+tab default plasma or breeze one is kind of meh01:01
misternoi think ill change it for something else to show in the middle of screen01:01
misternorather than on a side01:01
sithlord48i just changed it to a window picker01:01
misternowindow picker?01:02
misternoi dont see it as option01:03
sithlord48yeah the style of my alt tab is just a box01:03
sithlord48oh its called grid01:03
misternohmm something bugged my plasma i change it to grid but it wont change01:03
misternocan i restart plasma without logging out and closing all windows?01:04
misternooh yeah for the love of god what are activities?01:04
misternowhy they exist01:04
sithlord48activities allow you to make different widget setups and with different running programs depening on what activity your doing01:05
misternohaha plasma crashed, now i restart it01:05
misternobut activities also have different windows from apps too like desktops?01:06
sithlord48kwin_x11 --replace01:06
misternoi really dont see the point of existence of activities when you have desktops01:06
sithlord48when you start an activity it opens what ever progrms you selected and sets up the work space how you set it01:07
sithlord48you can switch between them too if you  wnat to just do something quick that you need to open a few things at once and you do it often you can make an activity for it01:07
misternowhenever i add activity soon after plasma crashes01:09
sithlord48so don't do that01:10
misternoi only do it as part of exploring01:10
misternoi dont see the point of activities01:10
sithlord48wel maybe its broken atm01:10
misternoit definitely is01:10
sithlord48yeah not alot of people use them01:10
misternothat's why i wanted to sent those crash reports01:10
sithlord48when it crashes there should be an install debug symbols button on the crash dialog if your attempt to report01:11
misternoyes and remember im missing some -dbg and symbols01:11
misternoi need to add source repository and install01:12
sithlord48yup there is a link to it in the log01:12
misternobut dont know exact procedure even though it was explained before i was still missing few steps01:12
misternosome of -dbg packages are still missing01:12
sithlord48baiscly you make a text file with that contents and replace trusty with vivid or what ever version your running and save it as /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debugsym.list01:13
sithlord48then do apt update and then you can install libqtqml5-dbgsym (think that was the one you need from there)01:13
misternoi would like to learn that way too but there is easier way01:13
misternobecause this way i need to open text editor in sudo01:14
sithlord48yup waht i just said is the easy way01:14
misternowhich means i must use kdesudo or something01:14
sithlord48sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/dbgsym.list01:14
misternobut there is a nice app for updates where sources can be added why not use that as first simple way01:14
sithlord48then paste into it and save the file...01:14
misternothen explain to me how to edit this file which seems more complex01:14
sithlord48or you can do kdesudo kate  and save teh file in that place.01:15
sithlord48since you said you lack the ability to scroll back here is the link http://paste.ubuntu.com/12145358/01:16
sithlord48replace trusty with vivid01:16
sithlord48and line 1 is the file you can save it as01:17
misternotell me something can't i do the same here clicking add? http://s9.postimg.org/8mb9upaxr/screenshot_16.png01:17
sithlord48yeah but it takes longer01:17
misternoquite the opposite, this is easier and better for newb01:18
misternoand after that you can explain other way by editing file01:18
sithlord48well you can read about how the sources.list works01:18
sithlord48put this on your reading list its for debian but kubuntu being  the kde desktop version of ubuntu that is based on debian is useful info01:19
misternois this correct for first line? http://s9.postimg.org/41p3frr8f/screenshot_17.png01:20
sithlord48and the ubuntu docs https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/CommandLine01:20
sithlord48yea looks ok01:20
misternoand now i repeat it for other two01:20
sithlord48you could have had them installed already my way...01:21
sithlord48just saying01:21
sithlord48when you have added them all be sure to update you package cache with apt update or the update button in what ever gui package maanger your using01:22
misternowhat repercussions i have adding this to my kubuntu01:23
misternoi mean sources01:23
misternoit will affect my apt-get update ?01:23
sithlord48yup it will add the packages there to the ones you can install01:23
sithlord48if a version of a package is newer in that repo it will be installed.01:24
misternobut it wont install anything byitself?01:24
misternothen i dont understand how this works01:24
misternoso apt-get update only downloads packages doesnt install them?01:24
sithlord48update updates teh package list01:24
misternoagain you must use ELI501:25
sithlord48its basicly names and version numbers of whats on the repo each repo has its own list  in the cache01:25
misternocause there are some steps you are assuming i already know01:25
misternobut i got the impression when i do sudo apt-get update it will update my system01:26
misternoand all the packages i have01:26
sithlord48no apt-get upgrade will upgrade you packages01:26
sithlord48update updates what you can get and what version . upgrade will upgrade what has newer versions01:26
misternoso update only downloads doest upgrade?01:27
misternoi mean update only updates list what i can get but downloads and installs nothing01:27
misternosee i got that wrong before01:27
misternoso i actually must use upgrade to get the upgrades01:27
misternoso when my system is automatically alerting me there are updates to install, what it does is it runs apt-get update then alerts me and when i click update button it actually does apt-get upgrade?01:28
sithlord48the system will automaticly check for new sources some times.01:28
misternowhich is apt-get update?01:28
misternoand then offer me to click "install updates" which is basically apt-get upgrade01:29
sithlord48well its maybe dist-upgrade thats a bit differet then upgrade just like purge and remove they are slightly different01:29
misternook theres more to it01:30
sithlord48upgrade will upgrade any package as long as it don't need you to install a new package01:30
misternobut see at first i didnt get it right with updates01:30
sithlord48dist-upgrade will upgrade any packages even if it needs to install a new package.01:30
sithlord48it will also remove packages so you need to be careful and see what its doing01:30
misternowhen you say as long as it doesnt need to install new package it will upgrade, do you mean like new dependancy?01:30
misternoyou see how many tricks there are here to know01:31
misternohow is a new user supposed to know01:31
sithlord48they are not you are expected to read and learn when you need to know those things.01:31
misternowho reads manuals01:31
sithlord48you will01:32
misternoif you want to get people not use your software best way is to offer them 200 page manual01:32
sithlord48that another nice thing just about every program has a manual01:32
sithlord48for instance type "man ls" in your konsole01:32
misternothat's what user friendliness is all about when people like me talk about it01:32
sithlord48it will tell you about the ls command and it various options in detail more so then --help does01:33
misternoit's reducing the need for manual as much as possible by giving all relevant info right there where actions are being taken01:33
sithlord48all the system apps are gonna be cli stuff.01:33
sithlord48man is best for them01:33
misternoif everyone read all the manuals everyone would know everything01:33
misternoand nobody would have issues :P01:34
sithlord48wanna learn more about apt-get then you should run apt-get --help or man apt-get for even more info01:34
misternoright now no!01:34
misternomy head is about to explode01:34
misternobut eventually? if i get motivated enough, yeah01:34
misternoif i get pushed away, maybe not01:34
sithlord48see that teh nice thing you dont ever have to touch the cli if you don't want to01:34
misternoi do want to touch the cli01:35
misternoclearly it has really strong use in linux community01:35
sithlord48but asking for help here you will often get a cli answer because as i said before its much easier to answer that way01:35
misternobut im going step by step01:35
sithlord48terminal is great.. then again i use it alot when i use windows and when i use mac os01:35
misternoand first few steps are realy like a 2 year old child learning to walk01:35
misternoor 1 year old01:35
misternoi dunno when they learn01:35
misternoill tell you one thing that i think i already said before01:36
misternoif UI was more user friendly there would be so much less need for console01:37
sithlord48no the console will always be used01:37
misternono need to use it if you can do same thing in GUI01:37
sithlord48just because you dont need console stuff don't mean other don't i can do somethings so much faster in a conssole01:37
sithlord48and you can't pipe gui programs01:38
misternothat's the thing, there is a trade off of how much you can do faster on console vs how much time you have to spend learning all thats needed to use iit01:38
misternoand for many things GUI properly done wins01:39
sithlord48how long have you used windows ?01:39
misternovery long01:39
misterno20 years01:39
sithlord48did u learn it all in one day ?01:39
sithlord48ok then expect the same here01:40
misternobut this isnt the issue of not learning it in one day01:40
sithlord48dont rush yourself use the gui01:40
misternothis is the issue of gonig from command line to GUI01:40
misternothat is irrelevant to OS01:40
sithlord48no its a key feature01:40
sithlord48i would loose teh GUI in linux before i lost the CLI .01:41
sithlord48and i feel not the same about windows becuse the CLI sucks01:41
misternoask yourself why01:41
sithlord48because the CLI is in many way much more useful and powerful01:41
misternoand requires more knowledge and precision and time to learn it01:42
misternosee there is a trade off01:42
sithlord48but you don't need to use it . shit ms.sith don't use it at all has used linux for about 10 years now . dont even know what the cli i s01:42
sithlord48well you see when i used computers i learned the cli first because that is what they had.01:42
misternoi knew what cli is before i ever used windows :)01:43
misternobefore windows i owned amiga50001:43
misternobefore amiga500 i owned zx spectrum 48k01:43
sithlord48thats what im saying the linux one has its roots deep in the os.01:43
TJ-I still have my ZX81 :)01:43
sithlord48yeah it takes time to learn01:43
misternoand i disagree about command line and it's usability01:44
sithlord48you don't need to know it if you just want to use the gui thats cool01:44
misternothe tradeoff is real01:44
misternoand gui wins01:44
sithlord48it depends on what you doing01:44
misternosure it does01:44
sithlord48you can't pipe gui01:44
sithlord48redirection fails in teh gui alot.01:45
misternobut in general, on average, GUI has already won many many years ago01:45
misternoreason why you guys are on cli is because GUI takes more to code01:45
misternomore to design01:45
misternothat takes time01:45
misternoand since you guys are doing this for free01:45
TJ-Makes you wonder why Microsfot is so hot on PowerShell ... they want to give scriptable power tools to their users01:46
sithlord48naw have you Qt gui takes nothing to code . literarly no code to make a gui01:46
sithlord48yeah i didn't even say antying about scripts..01:46
misternoim not saying there isnt a niche where cli is powerful01:46
misternoim talking from a perspective of home desktop user01:46
misternonot a developer01:46
sithlord48they never see it01:46
misternonot a web server01:46
misternonot even system administrator01:46
misternojust a plain home desktop user01:47
misternowants to browse internet, play games, watch movies listen to music, then additionally perhaps edit some photos, videos01:47
misternothat kind of stuff01:47
sithlord48they never need to see the cli01:47
misternoin GUI you dont need to read manuals often that i cant remember last time i read help file01:48
misternoi dont even know why we are discussing this01:48
misternothis is like 90s discussion01:48
sithlord48i dont either01:48
misternoGUI vs cli xD01:48
sithlord48i use a gui but i alwys have a terminal open01:49
sithlord48and my dolphin windows have terminal too01:49
misternobecause GUI in linux distros isn't yet done well like it should01:50
sithlord48kde is done very well01:50
sithlord48is it perfect no . but i have not used a perfect DE ever.01:51
misternoit's getting very close but still not up there with windows01:51
misternoi dunno about mac cause i dont use it01:51
sithlord48the best part is you don't like kde then you can install many other desktops01:51
sithlord48you can even change the desktop on the fly when you log in01:51
sithlord48oh iknow about mac too01:51
sithlord48i have used mac os long time and windows and linux01:52
misternosithlord48 when desktop is really well done theres little reason to change it except tweak it of course01:52
sithlord48somehow my school had all mac os 8 computers then osX later . and i do cross platform development so i mostly need to have a mac to test on . mac os is hard to run in VM01:53
sithlord48you need to understand this about kde you are expected to change it to you liking.01:53
sithlord48the default options are not always the ones i like01:54
sithlord48for example i like dolphin to have back and up not back and foward in the toolbar01:54
misternothat's tweaking01:55
misternoand yes back up is considered by me also better01:55
misternobut you could just have UP01:55
misternosince back is already on the mouse01:55
sithlord48i also like detail mode as the defalut.01:56
misternoin 2015 we do have mice with back and forth buttons dont we?01:56
misternoi must say detail mode disappointed me the most01:56
misternoi use detail mode in windows almost exclusively01:56
misternoand it's not up to par01:56
sithlord48in dolphin you can use alt+ up/left/right to do up back and foward too .01:57
misternofirst windows have nice ability to remember certain views by recognizing folders type01:57
misternoso it can recognize you have mostly video files in folder and turn the view to "video files view"01:57
misternoor if you have mostly photos it will recognize it and turn the view to photo view01:57
misternothen you can select if you want for each view to have thumbnails01:58
misternoand otherwise i just use details mode01:58
misternobut in details mode colums seem better done01:58
sithlord48ok so when i do a new kde machine for me i set one folder how i like detail then i use view properties to set taht as defalut for new . and i just first time browsing change it .. for dirs like pictures i just use the apply only to child folders to apply the properties01:58
misternoyes i would say it's decent alternative01:59
misternobut if you have many pictures and many videos folders it can get annoying setting each one by hand01:59
sithlord48i just goint to pictures once and set it as icons and the apply to current folder with children folders01:59
misternonot to mention mp3 folder?01:59
misternohow you sett that one01:59
misternosee windows just recognizes it as audio folder02:00
misternoand then i set it in details mode but this time with meta descriptors, album name length bitrate etc02:00
sithlord48idk i just use amarok to manage my music02:00
sithlord48i only see the music folder when i put new stuff in02:00
misternoand dont have to manually do it every time i have new mp3 folder02:00
misternoit just remembers02:00
misternothese are all little things that add up and after a while you have high minimum standard02:01
misternothat people who used windows are used to02:01
sithlord48to be fair most xdg complient desktops do that kind of this path is where my this kind of data is02:01
misternothat's another thing in linux02:01
misternotheres always some other distro or whatever framework or i dunno what, that does something02:01
sithlord48the deisgn choices are not made based on what new users are used to02:01
misternobut what does that mean to average user?02:02
misternoit has to be setup in one distro02:02
sithlord48no linux needs many distros02:02
sithlord48one distro is bad.02:02
misternoi think you missed my point02:02
sithlord48linux is about choice02:03
misternohere is one example of badly done GUI http://s9.postimg.org/ghlt9ikkf/screenshot_18.png02:03
sithlord48you get to choose what you system runs02:03
misternoi have added sources and it didnt update muon discover in the list with added sources02:03
misternoso now i have to restart muon discover02:03
sithlord48did you press the update button ?02:04
misternowhere do you see update button?02:04
sithlord48idk but i can assure you there is an update sources button somewhere in muon discover.02:04
misternoi just gave you a screenshot02:05
sithlord48also for starters don't use muon discover you not gonna get you dbg packages it will only show gui programs02:05
misternobut thats not even the point02:05
sithlord48its mostly likley under the menu button02:05
misternoproperly coded GUI should update it02:05
sithlord48it does02:05
misternoit clearly didnt for me02:06
misternoi dont know why02:06
sithlord48you can't see those packages in muon discover02:06
sithlord48they are non gui packages02:06
misternoi was talking about the list of sources you can see on screenshot02:06
sithlord48install muon package manager02:06
misternoi installed it yesterday02:07
misternobut that's not the point02:07
sithlord48so discover has a gui bug it still runs apt update02:07
misternothe point is there are still glitches and inconsistencies all over desktop environments and applications02:07
sithlord48when you cose tha tbos you should see it02:07
sithlord48things like that are in ever os02:08
misternonot as obvious and as often seen02:08
misternoi see this type of glitches all the time in so many places02:08
misternonot on windows02:08
sithlord48yeah well your looking at an odd verson for kde ..02:09
misternomint had similar feel02:09
sithlord48go use 14.04 with kde4 if you want polished02:09
misternoi can also tell you countless inconsistencies how mouse clicking behavior works too02:10
sithlord4815.04 is the first distro to release with plasma502:10
misternook i get it02:10
sithlord48yeah i never noticed any insconsistency with the mouse02:10
sithlord48with a track pad its crazy the mouse works like a mouse02:11
misternofirst inconsistency, what makes a window movable by left click and drag?02:11
misternotitle bar right?02:11
sithlord48depends on the window manager02:11
misternowhat do you mean02:12
sithlord48and its window status but almost always alt click02:12
misternowhat do you mean by window manager02:12
sithlord48the window manager managers the windows it minimizes them and lets yo move them and scale them02:12
misternoare there many window managers in kubuntu 15.04 ?02:12
sithlord48most windows you can click and drag around by its title bar02:12
sithlord48not by defalut02:13
misternoso why you even bring it up02:13
misternodude do you know what incosistency stands for02:13
sithlord48becuse all windows managers dont act the same ?02:13
sithlord48they are not all made for the same things and some people like different stuff your gonna find that alot in freesoftware02:14
misternoinconsistency is what goes against expected behavior, is it not?02:14
misternouniversally, regardless of any manager02:14
TJ-expected behaviour for one person isn't the same as for another. We don't use Windows as a base02:14
sithlord48i was gonna say something similar02:14
misternobut you do agree that is inconsistency?02:15
sithlord48honestly when i do have to use windows i expect it to do somethings it doesn't and i find it harder to use then if i used it daily02:15
misternoyes that is understandable02:15
TJ-we have different window managers, desktop environments, etc., because a number of users didn't like the status quo and decided to create something that didn't exist02:15
sithlord48its not expect to be the same02:15
misternobut you guys missed the point02:15
misternolets go back to what inconsistensy is universally02:16
TJ-No we don't... we reject the point ... Free software embraces diversity02:16
sithlord48we have some programs that are very similar except for small things becuase you can fork it and make it your way and if others also use it they can add to it and it will take a life of its own02:16
misternothere you go being defensive again02:16
sithlord48noone is being defensive.02:17
TJ-nothing defensive about it - it's a totally different ethos02:17
sithlord48we are all about choice02:17
misternoim asking you to define inconsistency02:17
misternoas a word02:17
TJ-Windows is often inconsistent too, has been since version 1.002:17
sithlord48dont like how that part works .. swapt itout for this part..02:17
misternoand i will get you to the point later02:17
misternowould you agree that inconsistency is behaving in multiple ways that are not expected, that diverge from some sort of standard?02:18
misternothis doesn't have to be proper definition just for the sake of argument02:18
TJ-consistency is *not* required across differing projects. If a single window manager altered how it managed window A compared to window B, without the user configuring that difference, that would be an inconsistency02:18
misternocan we agree on definition what inconsistency is just for the sake of argument?02:19
misternoso i can make my point?02:19
TJ-the fact the KDE does things differently to Gnome, which does things differently to XFCE, LDE, etc, isn't inconsistent.02:19
misternoyou are missing the point02:19
misternolets talk about inconsistencies between height of basketball players02:20
misternohow would you define word inconsistency02:20
misternook forget about height lets talk about inconsistency of hitting 3 pointers in basketball02:21
misternohow would you define word inconsistency02:21
misternohow would you define word "consistent"02:21
misternosilence xD02:22
misternosee, you refuse to either agree or give me your definition of term so i can make my point, no wonder it is difficult discussing things with linux people :P02:22
TJ-because this is a support channel and it is getting taken over by off-topic discussion; for this kind of discussion please use #kubuntu-offtopic or #ubuntu-offtopic02:24
misternowe didn't interrupt anyone02:25
misternowe didn't stop any conversation going02:25
misternoand you were willing to discuss it till now02:25
misternobut when i ask you for some clarity now suddenly it became support channel02:25
misternohow convenient to avoid argumenting02:26
misternowe can continue in off topic if you wish but i doubt you do02:26
bomberHi there. Can anyone help me with a login loop issue?05:20
misternoThe following packages have unmet dependencies:07:16
misterno plasma-workspace-dbgsym : Depends: plasma-workspace-dbg (= 4:5.2.2-0ubuntu3) but 4:5.3.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu15.04~ppa1 is to be installed07:16
misternoi wanna install it but some versions are not correct07:17
misternohow do i fix this ?07:17
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SmilexHey. I played a game that changed the resolution of my display, and now I can't change back to 1440x900. If I set it to that, the display just goes black09:37
AbuDharSmilex: too bad huh ? _D09:45
Smilexnvm, I could change it in nvidia settings09:48
AbuDharfine fine09:48
misternoso do you think i should install beta plasma10:15
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timmyfacei have a questions regarding te 15.04 KDE release11:33
timmyfacecan anyone help?11:34
timmyfacei guess not :(11:35
jubo2don't ask to ask, just ask11:35
jubo2'tis irc11:35
timmyfacehow do i get the plasma-next sound applet for Kubuntu 15.0411:35
timmyfacei.e the application / audio switching widget11:36
timmyfaceits essential for me11:36
jubo2I dunno11:37
timmyfacei belive it is in 5.4 but Kubuntu is only @ 5.3 and mot of the good stuff comes in 5.411:37
timmyfacelike the app menu, audio switcher, etc...11:37
jubo2I was just saying that ask your question and be prepared to wait a decent amount of time and someone who knows the answer might see it11:37
timmyfaceso how do i get KDE 5.4 on Kubuntu would be a better question :D11:38
BluesKajHowdy folks11:41
timmyfacecan anyone answer? is it just a ppa11:43
timmyfacei want kde 5.4 on kununtu 15.0411:43
soeeyuo would have to try to compile it by yourself11:44
BluesKajplasma 5.411:44
soee5.4 maybe will land in backports after it is released to Wily11:45
soeebut not any time soon as 5.4 final will be released next week, than we need time to package it for Wily, than maybe backport11:45
timmyfaceso about two to three weeks then for official ?11:46
timmyfaceand why is it called Willy ?11:46
BluesKajWily is 15.10 dev OS11:47
timmyfaceah ok11:47
timmyfacewily not willy11:47
timmyfaceare there links to dev builds of kubuntu on the website11:48
soeetimmyface: thereare daly builds: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/11:50
soeeor you can try alpha: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-wily-alpha-211:50
timmyfacei shall take a look :D11:51
timmyfaceso far 15.04 on the liveboot was really nice, probably the best.11:52
soeeyes, try in some virtual machine or live session from USB11:52
timmyfacei just need that audio switching11:52
timmyfacethat one thing..11:52
soeeand whats wrng in 5.3 ?11:52
timmyfacei need the audio applet11:52
soeeit has pretty the same applet (kmix)11:52
soeein 5.4 it is just ported to QML11:52
timmyfaceits not the same11:52
soeeah well maybe with some new functions :)11:53
timmyfacein 5.4 it has volume memory.11:53
timmyfacei could of sued for loss of hearing before :P  100% on HDMi, then switch to headphones ... 100%11:53
timmyfaceit also has easy output switching, for hdmi / analogue11:54
timmyfaceand application levels too11:54
timmyfacewithouth arsing around with kmix which always was a hideous solution11:54
timmyfaceso yea.. if i get that the im happy.11:55
timmyfacefor now, im going to try Manjaro KDE next 5.4 as it has those things.11:55
timmyfacethanks for the help BB people !11:57
soeecu :)11:58
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=== alin is now known as Guest66690
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=== rharish_ is now known as rharish
misternohow would i go about installing 15.10 version?14:15
misternoi presume it's just about adding beta repositories and doing dist-upgrade14:17
BluesKajmisterno: no , by internt the xommand is , sudo do-release-upgrade -d for dev OSs, or downld the image here, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/14:26
misternoby dev you mean beta?14:27
BluesKajer command14:27
misternothere are what 4 stages of releases?14:27
BluesKajthe dailies are up to date14:28
misternoi just want to make sure i dont go too far14:28
BluesKajas long as you can handle some instability ...not meant for work machines by any stretch14:29
misternolet me find some info14:30
misternooh no i mixed it with main restricted universe and multiverse but those are something else14:31
BluesKajalways research any releases first, then come in to the support and ask any questions you may have14:31
BluesKajmisterno:  don't muck about with repos trying to mix and match , tha just leads to broken packages , dependencies and all kinds of unfixable problems14:32
misternoi wasn't, i have kubuntu 15.04 with plasma 5.3.2 and was just thinking of trying 15.10 which i assume is next step and supposed to be something like beta14:33
misternowhen i say next step i mean next step in stability14:33
ikoniahow would it be stable14:33
BluesKajbeta is next week14:33
ikoniawhen it's not even in pre-release state14:33
ikoniait couldn't be futher away from the next step in stability14:34
misternooh it's not beta yet?14:34
ikoniaeven if it was beta - how can you expect that to be stable14:34
misternoi meant next step in less stability14:34
ikonianext step ??14:34
misternothen after that are even less stable releases?14:34
ikoniano, it should get more stable14:34
ikonianot less14:34
ikoniado you understand a release cycle ?14:34
misternohow can it get more stable if we are moving towards newer version?14:35
misternothen it's less and less stable14:35
BluesKajI'm running 15.10 alpha2 and it's a bit crashy now and then on some aps , but nothing serious14:35
misternowell 15.04 was crashing on me plasmashell14:35
BluesKajmisterno:  the place to ask about 15.10 is in ubuntu+1 anyway, this is for officially released Kubuntus14:37
BluesKajaka #ubuntu+114:37
misternowhat +1 stands for?14:37
BluesKajnext dev OS14:38
BluesKajincludes all flavours of ubuntu in pre release form14:39
misternoalright thanks14:39
misternocan i run 15.04 and upgrade just plasma14:40
misternoto something more advanced14:40
BluesKajplasma 5.4 will be released to 15.04 when it's ready and stable , in the meantime it's being tested on 15.10, so far it's quite barebones with bot a whole lot of changes14:43
misternoalright you persuaded me, im staying with 15.04 then14:43
misternoim new to linux, so i was just curious14:43
misternoim running it in VMs anyways14:44
BluesKajyeah it's going to take a while before it's ready14:44
BluesKaji prefer separate partitions14:46
misternoi would eventually love to try it natively, just not yet i dont wanna mess my partitions up14:46
misternoim sitting in ##windows a lot and so many people come after they tried to dual boot win + linux and mess booting14:47
BluesKajyou only need 40-50-GB which givess plenty of headroom14:47
misternobut i need to think about partitioning14:48
misternothe way i do it i wouldnt mix win and linux at all, but rather install on separate physical disks14:48
misternono shared dual boot partition14:48
misternothat way im absolutely safe14:48
BluesKajgparted live-media is a great partitioner IME , i use it a lot14:48
misternoi never used it :)14:49
DogeIm trying to install kubuntu 1414:55
DogeI made usb stick with unetbootin14:56
Dogei have whole ssd dedicated to it14:56
Dogeit installs fine14:56
Dogebut then it says it will reboot and nothing happens14:56
Dogeif i restart the computer tit ends up with black screen with some text and nothing happens14:57
BluesKajwhich 14, 14.04  or 14.10?14:57
Dogedownloading 15.04 now if that helps14:59
Dogewhy does the iso file name say amd15:02
BluesKaj14.04 is LTS , 14.10 is EOL , and 15.04 is the latest official release...it all depends what you want . ususlly when you can't get a desktop the graphics driver needs updating/upgrading15:03
misternobecause it's 64bit15:03
DogeI dont know what EOL or LTS mean.. Desktop shows fine when it is running from the USB stick.15:05
misternoEOL = end of line, LTS = long term support15:06
BluesKajDoge:  did you update and upgrade the OS after installing?15:07
DogeShould I try without internet connection?15:08
BluesKajest to have an internet connection , if possible15:11
Dogeelementary os installed and worked fine using same usb stick and unetbootin, but I didnt like it15:11
misterno lol neither did i15:12
misternoi hated it15:12
misternothen i tried mint and loved it then kubuntu and it's the most slickest linux distro i tried yet :)15:12
BluesKajthink I may have tried it a while back , it did nothing for me15:13
misternoit looks nice on screenshots but not very usable15:13
Doge15.04 unetbootin stick is ready will go try now on the other laptop to install it wish me luck15:13
misternobtw what is difference between lubuntu and kubuntu, just DE?15:14
misternothen im sticking with plasma15:14
soeeoh you should :)15:16
Dogewhen i boot from hd it says busybox15:29
Dogewhat is that15:29
BluesKajDoge:  in the grub bootloader choose the recovery kernel15:40
Dogeit goes straight to busybox after i turn power on15:46
_deadmundIs anybody here?15:50
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deadmundWhat is the difference between "raster" and "native" in the KDE desktop animations settings?15:53
=== max is now known as Guest81956
arceterahaving trouble with clamtk17:26
arceteradoesn't open through kickoff, running through yakuake gives me this error17:27
lordievaderarcetera: Why are you running ClamAV?17:33
lordievaderIs this a server serving Windows computers?17:33
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patrick__so I've got this problem when manually installing fglrx (the newest version from the AMD website)19:04
patrick__the install seems to work fine (no errors), but after reboot I only get a black screen19:05
patrick__can't even reach the text mode console via ctrl+alt+f119:05
patrick__I had to boot using the recovery mode and remove the driver via root shell19:06
mr-richMy net activity is spiking ... how can I determing what is causing all this activity?21:44
mparillo_My Systems Settings locale is US, but my printer interface seems to want to send A4. Any good places to check?22:06
mparillo_Hmm, I fixed it by opening all the systems settings and closing them. Now I am getting garbage.22:08
mparillo_Works, I can recommend an Epson WF-2630 for Linux22:12
SpogosHello - is there a panel/kde widget that will tell you your current desktop and highlight if there is activity on that desktop?22:51
wardredNot sure if it shows you activity on that desktop, but in the current version of KDE if you add desktops you get a widget in the toolbar that shows which desktop you're currently in.22:56
wardred /toolbar/taskbar/22:57
Spogoswould that work with workspaces as well?23:02

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