[00:00] <sithlord48> because the thumbnailer determines what to parse by ext (if it has one ) if not it looks at the file info
[00:00] <misterno> it says contents: image/png
[00:00] <misterno> it knows it's png
[00:00] <TJ-> misterno: it's called magic
[00:00] <misterno> and this thumbnailer can be configured?
[00:00] <misterno> TJ- im sure it is :)
[00:00] <sithlord48> in dolphin
[00:00] <misterno> this could be intended though
[00:00] <sithlord48> dolphins config under general tab iirc
[00:00] <misterno> so that you know your file has wrong extension
[00:01] <sithlord48> but jpg is not on the list iirc
[00:01] <sithlord48> because it should be jpeg
[00:01] <TJ-> misterno: it is... please see "man 5 magic"
[00:01] <misterno> sithlord48 ok let me check
[00:02] <sithlord48> misterno:  please when using kde take you time to explore all the settings and configure how you like . kde is set with its defaults it may or may not work how you like by default
[00:02] <TJ-> 'magic' is used by the system tools to identify file content, regardless of name/extension. *nix file systems do not treat '.extensions' special
[00:02] <sithlord48> kde is very configureable (and i mean all kde programs not just desktop )
[00:03] <misterno> sithlord48 i'm trying to explore as many options as i can but can't explore all
[00:03] <sithlord48> idk why the parser even does it by ext maybe it was easier that way
[00:03] <sithlord48> misterno:  in due time you will
[00:04] <misterno> sithlord48 is this called "previews"
[00:04] <sithlord48> yes
[00:04] <misterno> i think you misunderstood then
[00:05] <misterno> jpg are selected
[00:05] <sithlord48> jpeg
[00:05] <misterno> sorry i meant jpeg images
[00:05] <misterno> :P
[00:05] <sithlord48> it works if you have a .jpg in a folder where you have preview just not if you rename
[00:05] <misterno> that was my point
[00:06] <misterno> system knows it's png and it can show the thumbnail or preview as you call it, but it decided because it's wrong extension name that it wont
[00:06] <sithlord48> im guessing because if you name it .jpg it trys to parse the png using jpg tools...
[00:06] <sithlord48> like i said earily the thumbnail parser is not magical
[00:07] <misterno> why not?
[00:07] <misterno> could this be intended behavior?
[00:09] <sithlord48> it is .. like i said above if you name it .jpg it tries to use the jpeg parser on the png. how well do u think it works
[00:09] <sithlord48> be happy it don't crash and just gives you a generic icon .
[00:09] <misterno> it's one thing to be limited in what code can do but not necessarily intended, it's another to limit it by intention
[00:09] <misterno> that's why i ask
[00:10] <sithlord48> i don't know but heres what we can tell
[00:10] <misterno> i have thumbnails in windows and apps that parse them and they dont care about extension
[00:10] <sithlord48> the thumbnail previewer sets what it previews by ext .. so therefore we can assume that is also picks the parser for the file  based on ext.
[00:11] <sithlord48> and i have had updates take hours on windows ...
[00:11] <misterno> i renamed jpg file in windows to png and it still shows thumbnail
[00:11] <sithlord48> ok
[00:11] <misterno> do i have to say it
[00:12] <misterno> im not saying because windows does it, it must be so :)
[00:12] <misterno> but im curious
[00:12] <sithlord48> your maiking poor assumption that all similar software should act the same
[00:12] <misterno> no, im inquiring about differences
[00:13] <misterno> there is a reason why would thing be certain way in lets say windows
[00:13] <sithlord48> i didn't write dolpin or the thumbnailer so idk for sure why but you know the best part is you can go get the code and learn how it does it if you want to know
[00:13] <misterno> and when comparing differences it's not poor to ask why is this different
[00:13] <sithlord48> i can only guess that it goes by ext and since png are not jpgs when it trys to parse with the wrong libary it fails and give a defalut icon
[00:14] <sithlord48> maybe it works on windows because they have one libary taht parses all the file types based on file magic
[00:14] <misterno> it seems to me it's no technical difficulty to parse image regardless of extension so im assuming this was intended
[00:14] <sithlord48> if you change the ext it will still in the file start with some magic numbers
[00:14] <misterno> but considering how little i know linux im not sure :P
[00:15] <sithlord48> well if it sends a jpg to the png parser its gonna fail
[00:15] <sithlord48> since its uses the ext to pick the parser
[00:16] <misterno> it wouldnt be difficult to code it to be sent to correct parser would it :P
[00:17] <sithlord48> well seams you would have to waste time checking the magic
[00:17] <misterno> the point being?
[00:17] <sithlord48> it takes longer to run
[00:17] <sithlord48> x10000 images in a dir...
[00:18] <misterno> im sorry but i cant buy this as excuse
[00:18] <sithlord48> again i didn't write dolphin or the thumbnail parser i can only guess.
[00:18] <misterno> that's what im doing too
[00:18] <misterno> im guesing and asking for opinions to guess too
[00:18] <sithlord48> if it takes 1/4 second longer per file over many files that time adds up to way to long to render the contents of the dir
[00:19] <misterno> unless someone actually knows
[00:19] <misterno> you are looking at it somewhat misleading
[00:19] <sithlord48> how so
[00:19] <misterno> it's a technical issue that if wanted surely can be solved
[00:19] <misterno> so i find it irrelevant pointing how it takes longer and whatnot
[00:20] <misterno> im looking past the code
[00:20] <misterno> and simply wondering maybe it's intended
[00:20] <sithlord48> um software is technical . and when designing it you make design choices of a technial nature. sometimes it speed vs odd feature.
[00:20] <misterno> now there is a chance that the actual reason could be what you said "takes longer" i just find it hard to believe
[00:21] <misterno> why would on windows it work and they wouldnt have problems with taking longer?
[00:21] <misterno> or maybe they do
[00:21] <misterno> windows creates thumbnails cache
[00:21] <misterno> so only first time its slow
[00:21] <sithlord48> cause microsoft don't care if it just hangs when reading a dir..
[00:22] <misterno> here is possibly without cache?
[00:22] <sithlord48> there are cache but idk about for thumbnails
[00:22] <misterno> sithlord48 this isn't even about microsoft
[00:22] <misterno> there are third party utilities that parse thumbnails
[00:22] <misterno> and still do it
[00:22] <sithlord48> no it is because its a design choice to pick one way over the other . thats is all it is
[00:23] <misterno> i can have video file rename ext from lets say mpg to avi and it will still show correct thumbnail
[00:23] <misterno> clearly this can be done
[00:23] <sithlord48> ok maybe they have once large lib linked parser where dolphins loads up a kio by type to parse it
[00:23] <sithlord48> one is more memory use the other smaller memory use
[00:23] <misterno> it's third party utilities
[00:24] <misterno> i dunno what are their technicalities
[00:24] <sithlord48> k then sub microsoft for 3rd party dev
[00:24] <misterno> they take couple of MB
[00:24] <misterno>  to install
[00:24] <misterno> you are being defensive again
[00:24] <misterno> who cares about microsoft
[00:24] <sithlord48> not defensive at all ?
[00:24] <misterno> yea you are
[00:25] <misterno> at one mention of windows or microsoft everyone turns incredibly defensive
[00:25] <sithlord48> i was saying above if its made by 3rd party then the 3rd party don't care if when browsing a large dir their parse takes longer
[00:25] <misterno> if windows can have it CLEARLY it's not such huge technical issue
[00:25] <misterno> as you present it
[00:25] <misterno> no matter how much you try to make it look like that
[00:25] <sithlord48> design choice not technical issue.
[00:25] <misterno> could be
[00:25] <misterno> :)
[00:26] <sithlord48> i don't know why i didn't write it but i can assure you its a design choice . when you make those choices you have a reason sometimes as bad as that is how i did it sometimes it for a good reason
[00:28] <misterno> is dolphin similar to explorer.exe in windows in terms of servicing whole OS
[00:28] <sithlord48> no dolphin is a file browser
[00:28] <misterno> so if i get another file browser it would have different thumbnail views because it doesnt use dolphin to parse, it would have to have it's own parser
[00:28] <misterno> ?
[00:29] <sithlord48> it might not have any
[00:29] <misterno> or would it be the same
[00:29] <sithlord48> idk dolphin may use a parsing lib
[00:30] <misterno> i must say i like dolphin a lot
[00:30] <sithlord48> youll find in linux many things are done the unix way
[00:30] <misterno> seems to be very well designed in terms of it's functionality and UI
[00:30] <sithlord48> that is programs interact with one another to do new things
[00:30] <misterno> and im trying to get used to one click to run files
[00:31] <misterno> although it's cumbersome at first and i make many mistakes
[00:31] <sithlord48> you can change that
[00:31] <misterno> i know
[00:31] <misterno> but im trying to learn and get the sense and feel of how it is the other way :)
[00:31] <misterno> so that after a while i can asses which one is more usable
[00:31] <sithlord48> KDE and the KDE programs are all for you configuring them how you want
[00:31] <misterno> at first i thought it was ridiculous to single click open
[00:32] <misterno> till i realized hot stop in top left corner
[00:32] <misterno> it wasnt very visible
[00:32] <sithlord48> i perfer single click but i long time use linux as my main os
[00:32] <misterno> single click seems more dangerous cause you have to be more precise regarding selecting files
[00:32] <misterno> but i need to give it more time
[00:32] <misterno> after all it just might be different that's all
[00:33] <sithlord48> im mostly a kbd user single click is ok w/ me
[00:33] <misterno> im the other way
[00:34] <misterno> if there's a usable way to use a mouse with one hand only why use 2 hands on keyboard
[00:34] <sithlord48> nope i don't like that mouse takes up to much time to get hands off the kbd
[00:34] <misterno> that's why there is little room for middle ground
[00:35] <misterno> either you go all the way mouse
[00:35] <misterno> or probably all the way keyboard
[00:35] <sithlord48> this one has a touch screen but i don;t use it ever
[00:36] <misterno> oh is there no shortcut when deleting to avoid trashbin?
[00:36] <sithlord48> i use the terminal often yakuake is the first think i install on new machines.
[00:36] <sithlord48> shift+del
[00:37] <misterno> hmm im trying it and nothing
[00:37] <sithlord48> odd works here
[00:38] <misterno> oh it works in dolphin but it doesn't work on desktop when in folder view
[00:39] <sithlord48> ah yes iin dolphin
[00:40] <misterno> i like how pretty all icons and thumbnailing is by default in kubuntu
[00:40] <misterno> i really really like the OS
[00:41] <sithlord48> you can change the way it looks if you want
[00:41] <sithlord48> the os part is linux
[00:41] <sithlord48> the desktop parts are kde
[00:41] <misterno> yes i was doing it in mint
[00:41] <misterno> at first mint looked super good
[00:41] <misterno> but this is better
[00:41] <misterno> looks more modern
[00:41] <sithlord48> what mint did you use the cinnimon desktop one ?
[00:41] <misterno> yeah the latest, 17.02 i think
[00:42] <misterno> cinnamon is good
[00:42] <misterno> but not as good as this
[00:42] <misterno> i mean just looks wise
[00:43] <sithlord48> yeah kde is great
[00:43] <misterno> plus it seems kubuntu runs slightly faster in VM than mint cinnamon
[00:43] <sithlord48> plasma5 and KF5 are shaping up nicely for being still pretty new
[00:43] <misterno> that's my subjective feel
[00:43] <sithlord48> native it runs even faster
[00:45] <misterno> i just wish taskbar (bottom panel) would have slightly larger icons
[00:45] <sithlord48> ok click on the menu button on the task bar and make it taller the icons will grow
[00:45] <misterno> i did that
[00:45] <misterno> and wasn't very happy with result so i say i wish icons were even larger
[00:46] <sithlord48> are you talking about the task area?
[00:46] <misterno> task icons yes, i made them look like windows ones so that they are without labels
[00:46] <sithlord48> you might be able to configure that widget or replace it i use the icon only one show an icon at the height of the panel
[00:47] <misterno> ive looked through all the options
[00:47] <misterno> and the only thing is resizing panel as a whole
[00:47] <misterno> but icons have weird scaling when resizing
[00:47] <sithlord48> did u configure the normal task bar to have no words?
[00:47] <misterno> first they enlarge then they go smaller then they enlarge again
[00:48] <misterno> this is my VM in window mode so a bit smaller http://s9.postimg.org/gb846fbfj/screenshot_13.png
[00:48] <misterno> icons are just a tad smaller than i would want them too
[00:49] <misterno> but i dont want to make panel too wide or high because i lose too much desktop area then
[00:49] <sithlord48> you can auto hide the panel
[00:49] <misterno> dont like it
[00:49] <misterno> never liked that option in windows either
[00:49] <sithlord48> i always hide the panel
[00:50] <misterno> for me it's annoying
[00:50] <sithlord48> to me its annoying having that space always taken up i can get that much taller windows with it hidden
[00:51] <misterno> there is a certain size of panel when icons turn into smaller versions
[00:51] <misterno> then they are very ugly and difficult to recognize
[00:51] <misterno> the height of my panel is just a tick above that size
[00:51] <sithlord48> yeah maybe becuase that app doesnt have an icon for that size and uses a smaller one
[00:52] <misterno> but overall it looks very similar to windows 10 taskbar now
[00:52] <misterno> oh, peek previews are too big!
[00:52] <misterno> and windows previews are annoying
[00:52] <sithlord48> i turn that off
[00:52] <misterno> which ones peek or windows previews?
[00:53] <sithlord48> what do u mean by peek?
[00:53] <misterno> peek previews are when you hover over task icon in panel then preview thumnail shows up
[00:53] <sithlord48> those are off
[00:53] <sithlord48> and windows previews are ?
[00:53] <misterno> that's how windows have them
[00:54] <misterno> this is windows previews
[00:54] <misterno> http://s9.postimg.org/x09k2c80v/screenshot_14.png
[00:54] <sithlord48> alt tab or mouse up in the corner?
[00:54] <misterno> sorry i named it wrong, it's called "Present windows"
[00:55] <sithlord48> oh yeah that i have on
[00:55] <misterno> it happens when you have multiple tasks grouped under one icon
[00:55] <misterno> then if you click on it will give you present windows
[00:55] <misterno> but that is pointless since there are peek previews
[00:56] <sithlord48> i have mine off
[00:56] <misterno> but unfortunately both views are connected to same option "present windows" so either both are off or both are on
[00:56] <misterno> cant have one without the other
[00:56] <sithlord48> they are annoying i know what the programs look like and its not like they are large enuff to read anything usefull from them
[00:57] <sithlord48> no you can turn off peek in system settings -> desktop behavior -> workspace . uncheck show informational tips
[00:57] <misterno> peek previews are actually useful http://s9.postimg.org/b2d38jt0f/screenshot_15.png
[00:57] <misterno> i just wish the big ones wouldnt show when i click on icon
[00:58] <sithlord48> so click the window you want on teh peek then
[00:58] <misterno> i wish it would be: you click on grouped task icon, these peek previews show up and you just click on preview you want to activate
[00:58] <misterno> that way it doesnt take whole window and thumnail is more than often enough to know which one you want
[00:58] <misterno> although these peek previews are just a tad too big
[00:59] <misterno> theres wasted area around thumbnail making it bigger
[00:59] <misterno> sithlord48 but you see you cant get peek previews by clicking grouped icon
[00:59] <misterno> if you click grouped icon you get those full screen present windows
[00:59] <sithlord48> yeah and you pick one
[00:59] <misterno> so you need to hover your mouse till peek previews show
[01:00] <misterno> yea but im saying the big ones are annoying
[01:00] <sithlord48> they are almost instant on my machine
[01:00] <misterno> i don't want peeks to be instant
[01:00] <misterno> that's annoying too
[01:00] <sithlord48> yeah i just alt+tab . i think its kinda cool
[01:01] <misterno> alt+tab default plasma or breeze one is kind of meh
[01:01] <misterno> i think ill change it for something else to show in the middle of screen
[01:01] <misterno> rather than on a side
[01:01] <sithlord48> i just changed it to a window picker
[01:02] <misterno> window picker?
[01:03] <misterno> i dont see it as option
[01:03] <sithlord48> yeah the style of my alt tab is just a box
[01:03] <sithlord48> oh its called grid
[01:03] <misterno> hmm something bugged my plasma i change it to grid but it wont change
[01:04] <misterno> can i restart plasma without logging out and closing all windows?
[01:04] <misterno> oh yeah for the love of god what are activities?
[01:04] <misterno> why they exist
[01:05] <sithlord48> activities allow you to make different widget setups and with different running programs depening on what activity your doing
[01:05] <misterno> haha plasma crashed, now i restart it
[01:06] <misterno> but activities also have different windows from apps too like desktops?
[01:06] <sithlord48> kwin_x11 --replace
[01:06] <sithlord48> yup
[01:06] <misterno> i really dont see the point of existence of activities when you have desktops
[01:07] <sithlord48> when you start an activity it opens what ever progrms you selected and sets up the work space how you set it
[01:07] <misterno> hmmm
[01:07] <sithlord48> you can switch between them too if you  wnat to just do something quick that you need to open a few things at once and you do it often you can make an activity for it
[01:09] <misterno> whenever i add activity soon after plasma crashes
[01:10] <sithlord48> so don't do that
[01:10] <misterno> i only do it as part of exploring
[01:10] <misterno> i dont see the point of activities
[01:10] <sithlord48> wel maybe its broken atm
[01:10] <misterno> it definitely is
[01:10] <sithlord48> yeah not alot of people use them
[01:10] <misterno> that's why i wanted to sent those crash reports
[01:11] <sithlord48> when it crashes there should be an install debug symbols button on the crash dialog if your attempt to report
[01:11] <misterno> yes and remember im missing some -dbg and symbols
[01:12] <misterno> i need to add source repository and install
[01:12] <sithlord48> yup there is a link to it in the log
[01:12] <misterno> but dont know exact procedure even though it was explained before i was still missing few steps
[01:12] <misterno> some of -dbg packages are still missing
[01:13] <sithlord48> baiscly you make a text file with that contents and replace trusty with vivid or what ever version your running and save it as /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debugsym.list
[01:13] <sithlord48> then do apt update and then you can install libqtqml5-dbgsym (think that was the one you need from there)
[01:13] <misterno> i would like to learn that way too but there is easier way
[01:14] <misterno> because this way i need to open text editor in sudo
[01:14] <sithlord48> yup waht i just said is the easy way
[01:14] <misterno> which means i must use kdesudo or something
[01:14] <sithlord48> sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/dbgsym.list
[01:14] <misterno> but there is a nice app for updates where sources can be added why not use that as first simple way
[01:14] <sithlord48> then paste into it and save the file...
[01:14] <misterno> then explain to me how to edit this file which seems more complex
[01:15] <sithlord48> or you can do kdesudo kate  and save teh file in that place.
[01:16] <sithlord48> since you said you lack the ability to scroll back here is the link http://paste.ubuntu.com/12145358/
[01:16] <sithlord48> replace trusty with vivid
[01:17] <sithlord48> and line 1 is the file you can save it as
[01:17] <misterno> tell me something can't i do the same here clicking add? http://s9.postimg.org/8mb9upaxr/screenshot_16.png
[01:17] <sithlord48> yeah but it takes longer
[01:18] <misterno> quite the opposite, this is easier and better for newb
[01:18] <misterno> and after that you can explain other way by editing file
[01:18] <sithlord48> well you can read about how the sources.list works
[01:19] <sithlord48> put this on your reading list its for debian but kubuntu being  the kde desktop version of ubuntu that is based on debian is useful info
[01:19] <sithlord48> https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList
[01:20] <misterno> is this correct for first line? http://s9.postimg.org/41p3frr8f/screenshot_17.png
[01:20] <sithlord48> and the ubuntu docs https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/CommandLine
[01:20] <sithlord48> yea looks ok
[01:20] <misterno> and now i repeat it for other two
[01:21] <sithlord48> you could have had them installed already my way...
[01:21] <sithlord48> just saying
[01:22] <sithlord48> when you have added them all be sure to update you package cache with apt update or the update button in what ever gui package maanger your using
[01:23] <misterno> what repercussions i have adding this to my kubuntu
[01:23] <misterno> i mean sources
[01:23] <misterno> it will affect my apt-get update ?
[01:23] <sithlord48> yup it will add the packages there to the ones you can install
[01:24] <sithlord48> if a version of a package is newer in that repo it will be installed.
[01:24] <misterno> but it wont install anything byitself?
[01:24] <sithlord48> nope
[01:24] <misterno> then i dont understand how this works
[01:24] <misterno> so apt-get update only downloads packages doesnt install them?
[01:24] <sithlord48> update updates teh package list
[01:25] <misterno> again you must use ELI5
[01:25] <sithlord48> its basicly names and version numbers of whats on the repo each repo has its own list  in the cache
[01:25] <misterno> cause there are some steps you are assuming i already know
[01:26] <misterno> but i got the impression when i do sudo apt-get update it will update my system
[01:26] <misterno> and all the packages i have
[01:26] <sithlord48> no apt-get upgrade will upgrade you packages
[01:26] <sithlord48> update updates what you can get and what version . upgrade will upgrade what has newer versions
[01:27] <misterno> so update only downloads doest upgrade?
[01:27] <misterno> i mean update only updates list what i can get but downloads and installs nothing
[01:27] <sithlord48> yes
[01:27] <misterno> see i got that wrong before
[01:27] <misterno> so i actually must use upgrade to get the upgrades
[01:28] <misterno> so when my system is automatically alerting me there are updates to install, what it does is it runs apt-get update then alerts me and when i click update button it actually does apt-get upgrade?
[01:28] <sithlord48> the system will automaticly check for new sources some times.
[01:28] <misterno> which is apt-get update?
[01:28] <sithlord48> yes
[01:29] <misterno> and then offer me to click "install updates" which is basically apt-get upgrade
[01:29] <misterno> ?
[01:29] <sithlord48> well its maybe dist-upgrade thats a bit differet then upgrade just like purge and remove they are slightly different
[01:30] <misterno> ok theres more to it
[01:30] <sithlord48> upgrade will upgrade any package as long as it don't need you to install a new package
[01:30] <misterno> but see at first i didnt get it right with updates
[01:30] <sithlord48> dist-upgrade will upgrade any packages even if it needs to install a new package.
[01:30] <sithlord48> it will also remove packages so you need to be careful and see what its doing
[01:30] <misterno> when you say as long as it doesnt need to install new package it will upgrade, do you mean like new dependancy?
[01:31] <sithlord48> yup
[01:31] <misterno> you see how many tricks there are here to know
[01:31] <misterno> how is a new user supposed to know
[01:31] <sithlord48> they are not you are expected to read and learn when you need to know those things.
[01:31] <misterno> who reads manuals
[01:32] <sithlord48> you will
[01:32] <misterno> if you want to get people not use your software best way is to offer them 200 page manual
[01:32] <sithlord48> that another nice thing just about every program has a manual
[01:32] <sithlord48> for instance type "man ls" in your konsole
[01:32] <misterno> that's what user friendliness is all about when people like me talk about it
[01:33] <sithlord48> it will tell you about the ls command and it various options in detail more so then --help does
[01:33] <misterno> it's reducing the need for manual as much as possible by giving all relevant info right there where actions are being taken
[01:33] <sithlord48> all the system apps are gonna be cli stuff.
[01:33] <sithlord48> man is best for them
[01:33] <misterno> if everyone read all the manuals everyone would know everything
[01:34] <misterno> and nobody would have issues :P
[01:34] <sithlord48> wanna learn more about apt-get then you should run apt-get --help or man apt-get for even more info
[01:34] <misterno> right now no!
[01:34] <misterno> my head is about to explode
[01:34] <misterno> but eventually? if i get motivated enough, yeah
[01:34] <misterno> if i get pushed away, maybe not
[01:34] <sithlord48> see that teh nice thing you dont ever have to touch the cli if you don't want to
[01:35] <misterno> i do want to touch the cli
[01:35] <misterno> clearly it has really strong use in linux community
[01:35] <sithlord48> but asking for help here you will often get a cli answer because as i said before its much easier to answer that way
[01:35] <misterno> but im going step by step
[01:35] <sithlord48> terminal is great.. then again i use it alot when i use windows and when i use mac os
[01:35] <misterno> and first few steps are realy like a 2 year old child learning to walk
[01:35] <misterno> or 1 year old
[01:35] <misterno> xD
[01:35] <misterno> i dunno when they learn
[01:36] <misterno> ill tell you one thing that i think i already said before
[01:37] <misterno> if UI was more user friendly there would be so much less need for console
[01:37] <sithlord48> no the console will always be used
[01:37] <misterno> no need to use it if you can do same thing in GUI
[01:37] <sithlord48> just because you dont need console stuff don't mean other don't i can do somethings so much faster in a conssole
[01:38] <sithlord48> and you can't pipe gui programs
[01:38] <misterno> that's the thing, there is a trade off of how much you can do faster on console vs how much time you have to spend learning all thats needed to use iit
[01:39] <misterno> and for many things GUI properly done wins
[01:39] <sithlord48> how long have you used windows ?
[01:39] <misterno> very long
[01:39] <misterno> 20 years
[01:39] <sithlord48> did u learn it all in one day ?
[01:40] <misterno> nope
[01:40] <sithlord48> ok then expect the same here
[01:40] <misterno> but this isnt the issue of not learning it in one day
[01:40] <sithlord48> dont rush yourself use the gui
[01:40] <misterno> this is the issue of gonig from command line to GUI
[01:40] <misterno> that is irrelevant to OS
[01:40] <sithlord48> no its a key feature
[01:41] <sithlord48> i would loose teh GUI in linux before i lost the CLI .
[01:41] <misterno> why
[01:41] <sithlord48> and i feel not the same about windows becuse the CLI sucks
[01:41] <misterno> ask yourself why
[01:41] <sithlord48> because the CLI is in many way much more useful and powerful
[01:42] <misterno> and requires more knowledge and precision and time to learn it
[01:42] <misterno> see there is a trade off
[01:42] <sithlord48> but you don't need to use it . shit ms.sith don't use it at all has used linux for about 10 years now . dont even know what the cli i s
[01:42] <sithlord48> well you see when i used computers i learned the cli first because that is what they had.
[01:43] <misterno> i knew what cli is before i ever used windows :)
[01:43] <misterno> before windows i owned amiga500
[01:43] <sithlord48> yeah
[01:43] <misterno> before amiga500 i owned zx spectrum 48k
[01:43] <sithlord48> thats what im saying the linux one has its roots deep in the os.
[01:43] <TJ-> I still have my ZX81 :)
[01:43] <sithlord48> yeah it takes time to learn
[01:44] <misterno> and i disagree about command line and it's usability
[01:44] <sithlord48> you don't need to know it if you just want to use the gui thats cool
[01:44] <misterno> the tradeoff is real
[01:44] <misterno> and gui wins
[01:44] <sithlord48> it depends on what you doing
[01:44] <misterno> sure it does
[01:44] <sithlord48> you can't pipe gui
[01:45] <sithlord48> redirection fails in teh gui alot.
[01:45] <misterno> but in general, on average, GUI has already won many many years ago
[01:45] <misterno> reason why you guys are on cli is because GUI takes more to code
[01:45] <misterno> more to design
[01:45] <misterno> that takes time
[01:45] <misterno> and since you guys are doing this for free
[01:46] <TJ-> Makes you wonder why Microsfot is so hot on PowerShell ... they want to give scriptable power tools to their users
[01:46] <sithlord48> naw have you Qt gui takes nothing to code . literarly no code to make a gui
[01:46] <sithlord48> yeah i didn't even say antying about scripts..
[01:46] <misterno> im not saying there isnt a niche where cli is powerful
[01:46] <misterno> im talking from a perspective of home desktop user
[01:46] <misterno> not a developer
[01:46] <sithlord48> they never see it
[01:46] <misterno> not a web server
[01:46] <misterno> not even system administrator
[01:47] <misterno> just a plain home desktop user
[01:47] <misterno> wants to browse internet, play games, watch movies listen to music, then additionally perhaps edit some photos, videos
[01:47] <misterno> that kind of stuff
[01:47] <sithlord48> they never need to see the cli
[01:47] <sithlord48> ever
[01:48] <misterno> in GUI you dont need to read manuals often that i cant remember last time i read help file
[01:48] <misterno> i dont even know why we are discussing this
[01:48] <misterno> this is like 90s discussion
[01:48] <sithlord48> i dont either
[01:48] <misterno> GUI vs cli xD
[01:49] <sithlord48> i use a gui but i alwys have a terminal open
[01:49] <sithlord48> and my dolphin windows have terminal too
[01:50] <misterno> because GUI in linux distros isn't yet done well like it should
[01:50] <sithlord48> kde is done very well
[01:51] <sithlord48> is it perfect no . but i have not used a perfect DE ever.
[01:51] <misterno> it's getting very close but still not up there with windows
[01:51] <misterno> i dunno about mac cause i dont use it
[01:51] <sithlord48> the best part is you don't like kde then you can install many other desktops
[01:51] <sithlord48> you can even change the desktop on the fly when you log in
[01:51] <sithlord48> oh iknow about mac too
[01:52] <sithlord48> i have used mac os long time and windows and linux
[01:52] <misterno> sithlord48 when desktop is really well done theres little reason to change it except tweak it of course
[01:53] <sithlord48> somehow my school had all mac os 8 computers then osX later . and i do cross platform development so i mostly need to have a mac to test on . mac os is hard to run in VM
[01:53] <sithlord48> you need to understand this about kde you are expected to change it to you liking.
[01:54] <sithlord48> the default options are not always the ones i like
[01:54] <sithlord48> for example i like dolphin to have back and up not back and foward in the toolbar
[01:55] <misterno> that's tweaking
[01:55] <misterno> and yes back up is considered by me also better
[01:55] <misterno> but you could just have UP
[01:55] <misterno> since back is already on the mouse
[01:56] <sithlord48> i also like detail mode as the defalut.
[01:56] <misterno> in 2015 we do have mice with back and forth buttons dont we?
[01:56] <sithlord48> nope
[01:56] <misterno> i must say detail mode disappointed me the most
[01:56] <misterno> i use detail mode in windows almost exclusively
[01:56] <misterno> and it's not up to par
[01:57] <sithlord48> in dolphin you can use alt+ up/left/right to do up back and foward too .
[01:57] <misterno> first windows have nice ability to remember certain views by recognizing folders type
[01:57] <misterno> so it can recognize you have mostly video files in folder and turn the view to "video files view"
[01:57] <misterno> or if you have mostly photos it will recognize it and turn the view to photo view
[01:58] <misterno> then you can select if you want for each view to have thumbnails
[01:58] <misterno> and otherwise i just use details mode
[01:58] <misterno> but in details mode colums seem better done
[01:58] <sithlord48> ok so when i do a new kde machine for me i set one folder how i like detail then i use view properties to set taht as defalut for new . and i just first time browsing change it .. for dirs like pictures i just use the apply only to child folders to apply the properties
[01:59] <misterno> yes i would say it's decent alternative
[01:59] <misterno> but if you have many pictures and many videos folders it can get annoying setting each one by hand
[01:59] <sithlord48> i just goint to pictures once and set it as icons and the apply to current folder with children folders
[01:59] <misterno> not to mention mp3 folder?
[01:59] <misterno> how you sett that one
[02:00] <misterno> see windows just recognizes it as audio folder
[02:00] <misterno> and then i set it in details mode but this time with meta descriptors, album name length bitrate etc
[02:00] <sithlord48> idk i just use amarok to manage my music
[02:00] <sithlord48> i only see the music folder when i put new stuff in
[02:00] <misterno> and dont have to manually do it every time i have new mp3 folder
[02:00] <misterno> it just remembers
[02:01] <misterno> these are all little things that add up and after a while you have high minimum standard
[02:01] <misterno> that people who used windows are used to
[02:01] <sithlord48> to be fair most xdg complient desktops do that kind of this path is where my this kind of data is
[02:01] <misterno> that's another thing in linux
[02:01] <misterno> theres always some other distro or whatever framework or i dunno what, that does something
[02:01] <sithlord48> the deisgn choices are not made based on what new users are used to
[02:02] <misterno> but what does that mean to average user?
[02:02] <misterno> nothing
[02:02] <misterno> it has to be setup in one distro
[02:02] <sithlord48> no linux needs many distros
[02:02] <sithlord48> one distro is bad.
[02:02] <misterno> i think you missed my point
[02:03] <sithlord48> linux is about choice
[02:03] <misterno> here is one example of badly done GUI http://s9.postimg.org/ghlt9ikkf/screenshot_18.png
[02:03] <sithlord48> you get to choose what you system runs
[02:03] <misterno> i have added sources and it didnt update muon discover in the list with added sources
[02:03] <misterno> so now i have to restart muon discover
[02:04] <sithlord48> did you press the update button ?
[02:04] <misterno> where do you see update button?
[02:04] <sithlord48> idk but i can assure you there is an update sources button somewhere in muon discover.
[02:05] <misterno> i just gave you a screenshot
[02:05] <sithlord48> also for starters don't use muon discover you not gonna get you dbg packages it will only show gui programs
[02:05] <misterno> but thats not even the point
[02:05] <sithlord48> its mostly likley under the menu button
[02:05] <misterno> properly coded GUI should update it
[02:05] <misterno> automatically
[02:05] <sithlord48> it does
[02:05] <misterno> :P
[02:06] <misterno> it clearly didnt for me
[02:06] <sithlord48> why?
[02:06] <misterno> i dont know why
[02:06] <sithlord48> you can't see those packages in muon discover
[02:06] <sithlord48> they are non gui packages
[02:06] <misterno> i was talking about the list of sources you can see on screenshot
[02:06] <sithlord48> install muon package manager
[02:07] <misterno> i installed it yesterday
[02:07] <misterno> but that's not the point
[02:07] <sithlord48> so discover has a gui bug it still runs apt update
[02:07] <misterno> the point is there are still glitches and inconsistencies all over desktop environments and applications
[02:07] <sithlord48> when you cose tha tbos you should see it
[02:08] <sithlord48> things like that are in ever os
[02:08] <misterno> not as obvious and as often seen
[02:08] <misterno> i see this type of glitches all the time in so many places
[02:08] <misterno> not on windows
[02:09] <sithlord48> yeah well your looking at an odd verson for kde ..
[02:09] <misterno> mint had similar feel
[02:09] <sithlord48> go use 14.04 with kde4 if you want polished
[02:10] <misterno> i can also tell you countless inconsistencies how mouse clicking behavior works too
[02:10] <sithlord48> 15.04 is the first distro to release with plasma5
[02:10] <misterno> ok i get it
[02:10] <sithlord48> yeah i never noticed any insconsistency with the mouse
[02:11] <sithlord48> with a track pad its crazy the mouse works like a mouse
[02:11] <misterno> first inconsistency, what makes a window movable by left click and drag?
[02:11] <misterno> title bar right?
[02:11] <sithlord48> depends on the window manager
[02:12] <misterno> what do you mean
[02:12] <sithlord48> and its window status but almost always alt click
[02:12] <misterno> what do you mean by window manager
[02:12] <sithlord48> the window manager managers the windows it minimizes them and lets yo move them and scale them
[02:12] <misterno> are there many window managers in kubuntu 15.04 ?
[02:12] <sithlord48> most windows you can click and drag around by its title bar
[02:13] <sithlord48> not by defalut
[02:13] <misterno> so why you even bring it up
[02:13] <misterno> dude do you know what incosistency stands for
[02:13] <sithlord48> becuse all windows managers dont act the same ?
[02:14] <misterno> xD
[02:14] <sithlord48> they are not all made for the same things and some people like different stuff your gonna find that alot in freesoftware
[02:14] <misterno> inconsistency is what goes against expected behavior, is it not?
[02:14] <misterno> universally, regardless of any manager
[02:14] <TJ-> expected behaviour for one person isn't the same as for another. We don't use Windows as a base
[02:14] <sithlord48> i was gonna say something similar
[02:15] <misterno> but you do agree that is inconsistency?
[02:15] <sithlord48> honestly when i do have to use windows i expect it to do somethings it doesn't and i find it harder to use then if i used it daily
[02:15] <misterno> yes that is understandable
[02:15] <TJ-> we have different window managers, desktop environments, etc., because a number of users didn't like the status quo and decided to create something that didn't exist
[02:15] <sithlord48> its not expect to be the same
[02:15] <misterno> but you guys missed the point
[02:16] <misterno> lets go back to what inconsistensy is universally
[02:16] <TJ-> No we don't... we reject the point ... Free software embraces diversity
[02:16] <sithlord48> we have some programs that are very similar except for small things becuase you can fork it and make it your way and if others also use it they can add to it and it will take a life of its own
[02:16] <misterno> there you go being defensive again
[02:17] <sithlord48> noone is being defensive.
[02:17] <TJ-> nothing defensive about it - it's a totally different ethos
[02:17] <sithlord48> we are all about choice
[02:17] <misterno> im asking you to define inconsistency
[02:17] <misterno> as a word
[02:17] <TJ-> Windows is often inconsistent too, has been since version 1.0
[02:17] <sithlord48> dont like how that part works .. swapt itout for this part..
[02:17] <misterno> universally
[02:17] <misterno> and i will get you to the point later
[02:18] <misterno> would you agree that inconsistency is behaving in multiple ways that are not expected, that diverge from some sort of standard?
[02:18] <misterno> this doesn't have to be proper definition just for the sake of argument
[02:18] <TJ-> consistency is *not* required across differing projects. If a single window manager altered how it managed window A compared to window B, without the user configuring that difference, that would be an inconsistency
[02:19] <misterno> can we agree on definition what inconsistency is just for the sake of argument?
[02:19] <misterno> so i can make my point?
[02:19] <TJ-> the fact the KDE does things differently to Gnome, which does things differently to XFCE, LDE, etc, isn't inconsistent.
[02:19] <misterno> you are missing the point
[02:20] <misterno> lets talk about inconsistencies between height of basketball players
[02:20] <misterno> how would you define word inconsistency
[02:21] <misterno> ok forget about height lets talk about inconsistency of hitting 3 pointers in basketball
[02:21] <misterno> how would you define word inconsistency
[02:21] <misterno> how would you define word "consistent"
[02:22] <misterno> silence xD
[02:22] <misterno> see, you refuse to either agree or give me your definition of term so i can make my point, no wonder it is difficult discussing things with linux people :P
[02:24] <TJ-> because this is a support channel and it is getting taken over by off-topic discussion; for this kind of discussion please use #kubuntu-offtopic or #ubuntu-offtopic
[02:25] <misterno> we didn't interrupt anyone
[02:25] <misterno> we didn't stop any conversation going
[02:25] <misterno> and you were willing to discuss it till now
[02:25] <misterno> but when i ask you for some clarity now suddenly it became support channel
[02:26] <misterno> how convenient to avoid argumenting
[02:26] <misterno> we can continue in off topic if you wish but i doubt you do
[05:20] <bomber> Hi there. Can anyone help me with a login loop issue?
[07:16] <misterno> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[07:16] <misterno>  plasma-workspace-dbgsym : Depends: plasma-workspace-dbg (= 4:5.2.2-0ubuntu3) but 4:5.3.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu15.04~ppa1 is to be installed
[07:17] <misterno> i wanna install it but some versions are not correct
[07:17] <misterno> how do i fix this ?
[09:37] <Smilex> Hey. I played a game that changed the resolution of my display, and now I can't change back to 1440x900. If I set it to that, the display just goes black
[09:45] <AbuDhar> Smilex: too bad huh ? _D
[09:45] <AbuDhar> :D
[09:48] <Smilex> nvm, I could change it in nvidia settings
[09:48] <AbuDhar> fine fine
[10:15] <misterno> so do you think i should install beta plasma
[11:33] <timmyface> hello
[11:33] <timmyface> i have a questions regarding te 15.04 KDE release
[11:34] <timmyface> can anyone help?
[11:35] <timmyface> i guess not :(
[11:35] <jubo2> don't ask to ask, just ask
[11:35] <jubo2> 'tis irc
[11:35] <timmyface> ok
[11:35] <timmyface> how do i get the plasma-next sound applet for Kubuntu 15.04
[11:36] <timmyface> i.e the application / audio switching widget
[11:36] <timmyface> its essential for me
[11:36] <timmyface> jubo2?
[11:37] <jubo2> I dunno
[11:37] <timmyface> i belive it is in 5.4 but Kubuntu is only @ 5.3 and mot of the good stuff comes in 5.4
[11:37] <timmyface> like the app menu, audio switcher, etc...
[11:37] <jubo2> I was just saying that ask your question and be prepared to wait a decent amount of time and someone who knows the answer might see it
[11:38] <timmyface> so how do i get KDE 5.4 on Kubuntu would be a better question :D
[11:41] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[11:43] <timmyface> can anyone answer? is it just a ppa
[11:43] <timmyface> i want kde 5.4 on kununtu 15.04
[11:44] <soee> yuo would have to try to compile it by yourself
[11:44] <BluesKaj> plasma 5.4
[11:45] <soee> 5.4 maybe will land in backports after it is released to Wily
[11:45] <soee> but not any time soon as 5.4 final will be released next week, than we need time to package it for Wily, than maybe backport
[11:46] <timmyface> so about two to three weeks then for official ?
[11:46] <timmyface> and why is it called Willy ?
[11:47] <BluesKaj> Wily is 15.10 dev OS
[11:47] <timmyface> ah ok
[11:47] <timmyface> wily not willy
[11:48] <timmyface> are there links to dev builds of kubuntu on the website
[11:50] <soee> timmyface: thereare daly builds: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/
[11:50] <soee> or you can try alpha: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-wily-alpha-2
[11:51] <timmyface> nice
[11:51] <timmyface> thanks
[11:51] <timmyface> i shall take a look :D
[11:52] <timmyface> so far 15.04 on the liveboot was really nice, probably the best.
[11:52] <soee> yes, try in some virtual machine or live session from USB
[11:52] <timmyface> i just need that audio switching
[11:52] <timmyface> that one thing..
[11:52] <soee> and whats wrng in 5.3 ?
[11:52] <timmyface> i need the audio applet
[11:52] <soee> it has pretty the same applet (kmix)
[11:52] <timmyface> no
[11:52] <soee> in 5.4 it is just ported to QML
[11:52] <timmyface> its not the same
[11:53] <soee> ah well maybe with some new functions :)
[11:53] <timmyface> in 5.4 it has volume memory.
[11:53] <timmyface> i could of sued for loss of hearing before :P  100% on HDMi, then switch to headphones ... 100%
[11:54] <timmyface> it also has easy output switching, for hdmi / analogue
[11:54] <timmyface> and application levels too
[11:54] <soee> :)
[11:54] <timmyface> withouth arsing around with kmix which always was a hideous solution
[11:55] <timmyface> so yea.. if i get that the im happy.
[11:55] <timmyface> for now, im going to try Manjaro KDE next 5.4 as it has those things.
[11:57] <timmyface> thanks for the help BB people !
[11:58] <soee> cu :)
[14:15] <misterno> how would i go about installing 15.10 version?
[14:17] <misterno> i presume it's just about adding beta repositories and doing dist-upgrade
[14:26] <BluesKaj> misterno: no , by internt the xommand is , sudo do-release-upgrade -d for dev OSs, or downld the image here, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/
[14:27] <misterno> by dev you mean beta?
[14:27] <BluesKaj> er command
[14:27] <misterno> there are what 4 stages of releases?
[14:28] <BluesKaj> the dailies are up to date
[14:28] <misterno> i just want to make sure i dont go too far
[14:29] <BluesKaj> as long as you can handle some instability ...not meant for work machines by any stretch
[14:30] <misterno> let me find some info
[14:31] <misterno> oh no i mixed it with main restricted universe and multiverse but those are something else
[14:31] <BluesKaj> always research any releases first, then come in to the support and ask any questions you may have
[14:32] <BluesKaj> misterno:  don't muck about with repos trying to mix and match , tha just leads to broken packages , dependencies and all kinds of unfixable problems
[14:33] <misterno> i wasn't, i have kubuntu 15.04 with plasma 5.3.2 and was just thinking of trying 15.10 which i assume is next step and supposed to be something like beta
[14:33] <misterno> when i say next step i mean next step in stability
[14:33] <ikonia> how would it be stable
[14:33] <BluesKaj> beta is next week
[14:33] <ikonia> when it's not even in pre-release state
[14:34] <ikonia> it couldn't be futher away from the next step in stability
[14:34] <misterno> oh it's not beta yet?
[14:34] <BluesKaj> nope
[14:34] <ikonia> even if it was beta - how can you expect that to be stable
[14:34] <misterno> i meant next step in less stability
[14:34] <ikonia> next step ??
[14:34] <misterno> then after that are even less stable releases?
[14:34] <ikonia> no, it should get more stable
[14:34] <ikonia> not less
[14:34] <ikonia> do you understand a release cycle ?
[14:35] <misterno> how can it get more stable if we are moving towards newer version?
[14:35] <misterno> then it's less and less stable
[14:35] <BluesKaj> I'm running 15.10 alpha2 and it's a bit crashy now and then on some aps , but nothing serious
[14:35] <misterno> well 15.04 was crashing on me plasmashell
[14:37] <BluesKaj> misterno:  the place to ask about 15.10 is in ubuntu+1 anyway, this is for officially released Kubuntus
[14:37] <BluesKaj> aka #ubuntu+1
[14:37] <misterno> what +1 stands for?
[14:38] <BluesKaj> next dev OS
[14:39] <BluesKaj> includes all flavours of ubuntu in pre release form
[14:39] <misterno> alright thanks
[14:40] <BluesKaj> np
[14:40] <misterno> can i run 15.04 and upgrade just plasma
[14:40] <misterno> to something more advanced
[14:40] <misterno> 5.4.x?
[14:43] <BluesKaj> plasma 5.4 will be released to 15.04 when it's ready and stable , in the meantime it's being tested on 15.10, so far it's quite barebones with bot a whole lot of changes
[14:43] <BluesKaj> bot=not
[14:43] <misterno> alright you persuaded me, im staying with 15.04 then
[14:43] <misterno> im new to linux, so i was just curious
[14:44] <misterno> im running it in VMs anyways
[14:44] <BluesKaj> yeah it's going to take a while before it's ready
[14:46] <BluesKaj> i prefer separate partitions
[14:46] <misterno> i would eventually love to try it natively, just not yet i dont wanna mess my partitions up
[14:47] <misterno> im sitting in ##windows a lot and so many people come after they tried to dual boot win + linux and mess booting
[14:47] <BluesKaj> you only need 40-50-GB which givess plenty of headroom
[14:48] <misterno> but i need to think about partitioning
[14:48] <misterno> the way i do it i wouldnt mix win and linux at all, but rather install on separate physical disks
[14:48] <misterno> no shared dual boot partition
[14:48] <misterno> that way im absolutely safe
[14:48] <BluesKaj> gparted live-media is a great partitioner IME , i use it a lot
[14:49] <misterno> i never used it :)
[14:55] <Doge> Im trying to install kubuntu 14
[14:56] <Doge> I made usb stick with unetbootin
[14:56] <BluesKaj> 14?
[14:56] <Doge> i have whole ssd dedicated to it
[14:56] <Doge> it installs fine
[14:56] <Doge> but then it says it will reboot and nothing happens
[14:57] <Doge> if i restart the computer tit ends up with black screen with some text and nothing happens
[14:57] <BluesKaj> which 14, 14.04  or 14.10?
[14:58] <Doge> 14.04.2
[14:59] <Doge> downloading 15.04 now if that helps
[15:02] <Doge> why does the iso file name say amd
[15:03] <BluesKaj> 14.04 is LTS , 14.10 is EOL , and 15.04 is the latest official release...it all depends what you want . ususlly when you can't get a desktop the graphics driver needs updating/upgrading
[15:03] <misterno> because it's 64bit
[15:05] <Doge> I dont know what EOL or LTS mean.. Desktop shows fine when it is running from the USB stick.
[15:06] <misterno> EOL = end of line, LTS = long term support
[15:07] <BluesKaj> Doge:  did you update and upgrade the OS after installing?
[15:08] <Doge> yes
[15:08] <Doge> Should I try without internet connection?
[15:11] <BluesKaj> est to have an internet connection , if possible
[15:11] <BluesKaj> best
[15:11] <Doge> elementary os installed and worked fine using same usb stick and unetbootin, but I didnt like it
[15:12] <misterno>  lol neither did i
[15:12] <misterno> i hated it
[15:12] <misterno> then i tried mint and loved it then kubuntu and it's the most slickest linux distro i tried yet :)
[15:13] <BluesKaj> think I may have tried it a while back , it did nothing for me
[15:13] <misterno> it looks nice on screenshots but not very usable
[15:13] <Doge> 15.04 unetbootin stick is ready will go try now on the other laptop to install it wish me luck
[15:14] <misterno> btw what is difference between lubuntu and kubuntu, just DE?
[15:14] <ikonia> yes
[15:14] <misterno> then im sticking with plasma
[15:16] <soee> oh you should :)
[15:29] <Doge> when i boot from hd it says busybox
[15:29] <Doge> what is that
[15:40] <BluesKaj> Doge:  in the grub bootloader choose the recovery kernel
[15:46] <Doge> it goes straight to busybox after i turn power on
[15:50] <_deadmund> Is anybody here?
[15:53] <deadmund> What is the difference between "raster" and "native" in the KDE desktop animations settings?
[17:26] <arcetera> having trouble with clamtk
[17:27] <arcetera> doesn't open through kickoff, running through yakuake gives me this error
[17:27] <arcetera> https://ghostbin.com/paste/mvsuv
[17:33] <lordievader> arcetera: Why are you running ClamAV?
[17:33] <lordievader> Is this a server serving Windows computers?
[19:04] <patrick__> hey
[19:04] <patrick__> so I've got this problem when manually installing fglrx (the newest version from the AMD website)
[19:05] <patrick__> the install seems to work fine (no errors), but after reboot I only get a black screen
[19:05] <patrick__> can't even reach the text mode console via ctrl+alt+f1
[19:06] <patrick__> I had to boot using the recovery mode and remove the driver via root shell
[21:44] <mr-rich> My net activity is spiking ... how can I determing what is causing all this activity?
[22:06] <mparillo_> My Systems Settings locale is US, but my printer interface seems to want to send A4. Any good places to check?
[22:08] <mparillo_> Hmm, I fixed it by opening all the systems settings and closing them. Now I am getting garbage.
[22:12] <mparillo_> Works, I can recommend an Epson WF-2630 for Linux
[22:51] <Spogos> Hello - is there a panel/kde widget that will tell you your current desktop and highlight if there is activity on that desktop?
[22:56] <wardred> Not sure if it shows you activity on that desktop, but in the current version of KDE if you add desktops you get a widget in the toolbar that shows which desktop you're currently in.
[22:57] <wardred>  /toolbar/taskbar/
[23:02] <Spogos> would that work with workspaces as well?