[00:00] because the thumbnailer determines what to parse by ext (if it has one ) if not it looks at the file info [00:00] it says contents: image/png [00:00] it knows it's png [00:00] misterno: it's called magic [00:00] and this thumbnailer can be configured? [00:00] TJ- im sure it is :) [00:00] in dolphin [00:00] this could be intended though [00:00] dolphins config under general tab iirc [00:00] so that you know your file has wrong extension [00:01] but jpg is not on the list iirc [00:01] because it should be jpeg [00:01] misterno: it is... please see "man 5 magic" [00:01] sithlord48 ok let me check [00:02] misterno: please when using kde take you time to explore all the settings and configure how you like . kde is set with its defaults it may or may not work how you like by default [00:02] 'magic' is used by the system tools to identify file content, regardless of name/extension. *nix file systems do not treat '.extensions' special [00:02] kde is very configureable (and i mean all kde programs not just desktop ) [00:03] sithlord48 i'm trying to explore as many options as i can but can't explore all [00:03] idk why the parser even does it by ext maybe it was easier that way [00:03] misterno: in due time you will [00:04] sithlord48 is this called "previews" [00:04] yes [00:04] i think you misunderstood then [00:05] jpg are selected [00:05] jpeg [00:05] sorry i meant jpeg images [00:05] :P [00:05] it works if you have a .jpg in a folder where you have preview just not if you rename [00:05] that was my point [00:06] system knows it's png and it can show the thumbnail or preview as you call it, but it decided because it's wrong extension name that it wont [00:06] im guessing because if you name it .jpg it trys to parse the png using jpg tools... [00:06] like i said earily the thumbnail parser is not magical [00:07] why not? [00:07] could this be intended behavior? [00:09] it is .. like i said above if you name it .jpg it tries to use the jpeg parser on the png. how well do u think it works [00:09] be happy it don't crash and just gives you a generic icon . [00:09] it's one thing to be limited in what code can do but not necessarily intended, it's another to limit it by intention [00:09] that's why i ask [00:10] i don't know but heres what we can tell [00:10] i have thumbnails in windows and apps that parse them and they dont care about extension [00:10] the thumbnail previewer sets what it previews by ext .. so therefore we can assume that is also picks the parser for the file based on ext. [00:11] and i have had updates take hours on windows ... [00:11] i renamed jpg file in windows to png and it still shows thumbnail [00:11] ok [00:11] do i have to say it [00:12] im not saying because windows does it, it must be so :) [00:12] but im curious [00:12] your maiking poor assumption that all similar software should act the same [00:12] no, im inquiring about differences [00:13] there is a reason why would thing be certain way in lets say windows [00:13] i didn't write dolpin or the thumbnailer so idk for sure why but you know the best part is you can go get the code and learn how it does it if you want to know [00:13] and when comparing differences it's not poor to ask why is this different [00:13] i can only guess that it goes by ext and since png are not jpgs when it trys to parse with the wrong libary it fails and give a defalut icon [00:14] maybe it works on windows because they have one libary taht parses all the file types based on file magic [00:14] it seems to me it's no technical difficulty to parse image regardless of extension so im assuming this was intended [00:14] if you change the ext it will still in the file start with some magic numbers [00:14] but considering how little i know linux im not sure :P [00:15] well if it sends a jpg to the png parser its gonna fail [00:15] since its uses the ext to pick the parser [00:16] it wouldnt be difficult to code it to be sent to correct parser would it :P [00:17] well seams you would have to waste time checking the magic [00:17] the point being? [00:17] it takes longer to run [00:17] x10000 images in a dir... [00:18] im sorry but i cant buy this as excuse [00:18] again i didn't write dolphin or the thumbnail parser i can only guess. [00:18] that's what im doing too [00:18] im guesing and asking for opinions to guess too [00:18] if it takes 1/4 second longer per file over many files that time adds up to way to long to render the contents of the dir [00:19] unless someone actually knows [00:19] you are looking at it somewhat misleading [00:19] how so [00:19] it's a technical issue that if wanted surely can be solved [00:19] so i find it irrelevant pointing how it takes longer and whatnot [00:20] im looking past the code [00:20] and simply wondering maybe it's intended [00:20] um software is technical . and when designing it you make design choices of a technial nature. sometimes it speed vs odd feature. [00:20] now there is a chance that the actual reason could be what you said "takes longer" i just find it hard to believe [00:21] why would on windows it work and they wouldnt have problems with taking longer? [00:21] or maybe they do [00:21] windows creates thumbnails cache [00:21] so only first time its slow [00:21] cause microsoft don't care if it just hangs when reading a dir.. [00:22] here is possibly without cache? [00:22] there are cache but idk about for thumbnails [00:22] sithlord48 this isn't even about microsoft [00:22] there are third party utilities that parse thumbnails [00:22] and still do it [00:22] no it is because its a design choice to pick one way over the other . thats is all it is [00:23] i can have video file rename ext from lets say mpg to avi and it will still show correct thumbnail [00:23] clearly this can be done [00:23] ok maybe they have once large lib linked parser where dolphins loads up a kio by type to parse it [00:23] one is more memory use the other smaller memory use [00:23] it's third party utilities [00:24] i dunno what are their technicalities [00:24] k then sub microsoft for 3rd party dev [00:24] they take couple of MB [00:24] to install [00:24] you are being defensive again [00:24] who cares about microsoft [00:24] not defensive at all ? [00:24] yea you are [00:25] at one mention of windows or microsoft everyone turns incredibly defensive [00:25] i was saying above if its made by 3rd party then the 3rd party don't care if when browsing a large dir their parse takes longer [00:25] if windows can have it CLEARLY it's not such huge technical issue [00:25] as you present it [00:25] no matter how much you try to make it look like that [00:25] design choice not technical issue. [00:25] could be [00:25] :) [00:26] i don't know why i didn't write it but i can assure you its a design choice . when you make those choices you have a reason sometimes as bad as that is how i did it sometimes it for a good reason [00:28] is dolphin similar to explorer.exe in windows in terms of servicing whole OS [00:28] no dolphin is a file browser [00:28] so if i get another file browser it would have different thumbnail views because it doesnt use dolphin to parse, it would have to have it's own parser [00:28] ? [00:29] it might not have any [00:29] or would it be the same [00:29] idk dolphin may use a parsing lib [00:30] i must say i like dolphin a lot [00:30] youll find in linux many things are done the unix way [00:30] seems to be very well designed in terms of it's functionality and UI [00:30] that is programs interact with one another to do new things [00:30] and im trying to get used to one click to run files [00:31] although it's cumbersome at first and i make many mistakes [00:31] you can change that [00:31] i know [00:31] but im trying to learn and get the sense and feel of how it is the other way :) [00:31] so that after a while i can asses which one is more usable [00:31] KDE and the KDE programs are all for you configuring them how you want [00:31] at first i thought it was ridiculous to single click open [00:32] till i realized hot stop in top left corner [00:32] it wasnt very visible [00:32] i perfer single click but i long time use linux as my main os [00:32] single click seems more dangerous cause you have to be more precise regarding selecting files [00:32] but i need to give it more time [00:32] after all it just might be different that's all [00:33] im mostly a kbd user single click is ok w/ me [00:33] im the other way [00:34] if there's a usable way to use a mouse with one hand only why use 2 hands on keyboard [00:34] nope i don't like that mouse takes up to much time to get hands off the kbd [00:34] that's why there is little room for middle ground [00:35] either you go all the way mouse [00:35] or probably all the way keyboard [00:35] this one has a touch screen but i don;t use it ever [00:36] oh is there no shortcut when deleting to avoid trashbin? [00:36] i use the terminal often yakuake is the first think i install on new machines. [00:36] shift+del [00:37] hmm im trying it and nothing [00:37] odd works here [00:38] oh it works in dolphin but it doesn't work on desktop when in folder view [00:39] ah yes iin dolphin [00:40] i like how pretty all icons and thumbnailing is by default in kubuntu [00:40] i really really like the OS [00:41] you can change the way it looks if you want [00:41] the os part is linux [00:41] the desktop parts are kde [00:41] yes i was doing it in mint [00:41] at first mint looked super good [00:41] but this is better [00:41] looks more modern [00:41] what mint did you use the cinnimon desktop one ? [00:41] yeah the latest, 17.02 i think [00:42] cinnamon is good [00:42] but not as good as this [00:42] i mean just looks wise [00:43] yeah kde is great [00:43] plus it seems kubuntu runs slightly faster in VM than mint cinnamon [00:43] plasma5 and KF5 are shaping up nicely for being still pretty new [00:43] that's my subjective feel [00:43] native it runs even faster [00:45] i just wish taskbar (bottom panel) would have slightly larger icons [00:45] ok click on the menu button on the task bar and make it taller the icons will grow [00:45] i did that [00:45] and wasn't very happy with result so i say i wish icons were even larger [00:46] are you talking about the task area? [00:46] task icons yes, i made them look like windows ones so that they are without labels [00:46] you might be able to configure that widget or replace it i use the icon only one show an icon at the height of the panel [00:47] ive looked through all the options [00:47] and the only thing is resizing panel as a whole [00:47] but icons have weird scaling when resizing [00:47] did u configure the normal task bar to have no words? [00:47] first they enlarge then they go smaller then they enlarge again [00:48] this is my VM in window mode so a bit smaller http://s9.postimg.org/gb846fbfj/screenshot_13.png [00:48] icons are just a tad smaller than i would want them too [00:49] but i dont want to make panel too wide or high because i lose too much desktop area then [00:49] you can auto hide the panel [00:49] dont like it [00:49] never liked that option in windows either [00:49] i always hide the panel [00:50] for me it's annoying [00:50] to me its annoying having that space always taken up i can get that much taller windows with it hidden [00:51] there is a certain size of panel when icons turn into smaller versions [00:51] then they are very ugly and difficult to recognize [00:51] the height of my panel is just a tick above that size [00:51] yeah maybe becuase that app doesnt have an icon for that size and uses a smaller one [00:52] but overall it looks very similar to windows 10 taskbar now [00:52] oh, peek previews are too big! [00:52] and windows previews are annoying [00:52] i turn that off [00:52] which ones peek or windows previews? [00:53] what do u mean by peek? [00:53] peek previews are when you hover over task icon in panel then preview thumnail shows up [00:53] those are off [00:53] and windows previews are ? [00:53] that's how windows have them [00:54] this is windows previews [00:54] http://s9.postimg.org/x09k2c80v/screenshot_14.png [00:54] alt tab or mouse up in the corner? [00:54] sorry i named it wrong, it's called "Present windows" [00:55] oh yeah that i have on [00:55] it happens when you have multiple tasks grouped under one icon [00:55] then if you click on it will give you present windows [00:55] but that is pointless since there are peek previews [00:56] i have mine off [00:56] but unfortunately both views are connected to same option "present windows" so either both are off or both are on [00:56] cant have one without the other [00:56] they are annoying i know what the programs look like and its not like they are large enuff to read anything usefull from them [00:57] no you can turn off peek in system settings -> desktop behavior -> workspace . uncheck show informational tips [00:57] peek previews are actually useful http://s9.postimg.org/b2d38jt0f/screenshot_15.png [00:57] i just wish the big ones wouldnt show when i click on icon [00:58] so click the window you want on teh peek then [00:58] i wish it would be: you click on grouped task icon, these peek previews show up and you just click on preview you want to activate [00:58] that way it doesnt take whole window and thumnail is more than often enough to know which one you want [00:58] although these peek previews are just a tad too big [00:59] theres wasted area around thumbnail making it bigger [00:59] sithlord48 but you see you cant get peek previews by clicking grouped icon [00:59] if you click grouped icon you get those full screen present windows [00:59] yeah and you pick one [00:59] so you need to hover your mouse till peek previews show [01:00] yea but im saying the big ones are annoying [01:00] they are almost instant on my machine [01:00] i don't want peeks to be instant [01:00] that's annoying too [01:00] yeah i just alt+tab . i think its kinda cool [01:01] alt+tab default plasma or breeze one is kind of meh [01:01] i think ill change it for something else to show in the middle of screen [01:01] rather than on a side [01:01] i just changed it to a window picker [01:02] window picker? [01:03] i dont see it as option [01:03] yeah the style of my alt tab is just a box [01:03] oh its called grid [01:03] hmm something bugged my plasma i change it to grid but it wont change [01:04] can i restart plasma without logging out and closing all windows? [01:04] oh yeah for the love of god what are activities? [01:04] why they exist [01:05] activities allow you to make different widget setups and with different running programs depening on what activity your doing [01:05] haha plasma crashed, now i restart it [01:06] but activities also have different windows from apps too like desktops? [01:06] kwin_x11 --replace [01:06] yup [01:06] i really dont see the point of existence of activities when you have desktops [01:07] when you start an activity it opens what ever progrms you selected and sets up the work space how you set it [01:07] hmmm [01:07] you can switch between them too if you wnat to just do something quick that you need to open a few things at once and you do it often you can make an activity for it [01:09] whenever i add activity soon after plasma crashes [01:10] so don't do that [01:10] i only do it as part of exploring [01:10] i dont see the point of activities [01:10] wel maybe its broken atm [01:10] it definitely is [01:10] yeah not alot of people use them [01:10] that's why i wanted to sent those crash reports [01:11] when it crashes there should be an install debug symbols button on the crash dialog if your attempt to report [01:11] yes and remember im missing some -dbg and symbols [01:12] i need to add source repository and install [01:12] yup there is a link to it in the log [01:12] but dont know exact procedure even though it was explained before i was still missing few steps [01:12] some of -dbg packages are still missing [01:13] baiscly you make a text file with that contents and replace trusty with vivid or what ever version your running and save it as /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debugsym.list [01:13] then do apt update and then you can install libqtqml5-dbgsym (think that was the one you need from there) [01:13] i would like to learn that way too but there is easier way [01:14] because this way i need to open text editor in sudo [01:14] yup waht i just said is the easy way [01:14] which means i must use kdesudo or something [01:14] sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/dbgsym.list [01:14] but there is a nice app for updates where sources can be added why not use that as first simple way [01:14] then paste into it and save the file... [01:14] then explain to me how to edit this file which seems more complex [01:15] or you can do kdesudo kate and save teh file in that place. [01:16] since you said you lack the ability to scroll back here is the link http://paste.ubuntu.com/12145358/ [01:16] replace trusty with vivid [01:17] and line 1 is the file you can save it as [01:17] tell me something can't i do the same here clicking add? http://s9.postimg.org/8mb9upaxr/screenshot_16.png [01:17] yeah but it takes longer [01:18] quite the opposite, this is easier and better for newb [01:18] and after that you can explain other way by editing file [01:18] well you can read about how the sources.list works [01:19] put this on your reading list its for debian but kubuntu being the kde desktop version of ubuntu that is based on debian is useful info [01:19] https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList [01:20] is this correct for first line? http://s9.postimg.org/41p3frr8f/screenshot_17.png [01:20] and the ubuntu docs https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/CommandLine [01:20] yea looks ok [01:20] and now i repeat it for other two [01:21] you could have had them installed already my way... [01:21] just saying [01:22] when you have added them all be sure to update you package cache with apt update or the update button in what ever gui package maanger your using [01:23] what repercussions i have adding this to my kubuntu [01:23] i mean sources [01:23] it will affect my apt-get update ? [01:23] yup it will add the packages there to the ones you can install [01:24] if a version of a package is newer in that repo it will be installed. [01:24] but it wont install anything byitself? [01:24] nope [01:24] then i dont understand how this works [01:24] so apt-get update only downloads packages doesnt install them? [01:24] update updates teh package list [01:25] again you must use ELI5 [01:25] its basicly names and version numbers of whats on the repo each repo has its own list in the cache [01:25] cause there are some steps you are assuming i already know [01:26] but i got the impression when i do sudo apt-get update it will update my system [01:26] and all the packages i have [01:26] no apt-get upgrade will upgrade you packages [01:26] update updates what you can get and what version . upgrade will upgrade what has newer versions [01:27] so update only downloads doest upgrade? [01:27] i mean update only updates list what i can get but downloads and installs nothing [01:27] yes [01:27] see i got that wrong before [01:27] so i actually must use upgrade to get the upgrades [01:28] so when my system is automatically alerting me there are updates to install, what it does is it runs apt-get update then alerts me and when i click update button it actually does apt-get upgrade? [01:28] the system will automaticly check for new sources some times. [01:28] which is apt-get update? [01:28] yes [01:29] and then offer me to click "install updates" which is basically apt-get upgrade [01:29] ? [01:29] well its maybe dist-upgrade thats a bit differet then upgrade just like purge and remove they are slightly different [01:30] ok theres more to it [01:30] upgrade will upgrade any package as long as it don't need you to install a new package [01:30] but see at first i didnt get it right with updates [01:30] dist-upgrade will upgrade any packages even if it needs to install a new package. [01:30] it will also remove packages so you need to be careful and see what its doing [01:30] when you say as long as it doesnt need to install new package it will upgrade, do you mean like new dependancy? [01:31] yup [01:31] you see how many tricks there are here to know [01:31] how is a new user supposed to know [01:31] they are not you are expected to read and learn when you need to know those things. [01:31] who reads manuals [01:32] you will [01:32] if you want to get people not use your software best way is to offer them 200 page manual [01:32] that another nice thing just about every program has a manual [01:32] for instance type "man ls" in your konsole [01:32] that's what user friendliness is all about when people like me talk about it [01:33] it will tell you about the ls command and it various options in detail more so then --help does [01:33] it's reducing the need for manual as much as possible by giving all relevant info right there where actions are being taken [01:33] all the system apps are gonna be cli stuff. [01:33] man is best for them [01:33] if everyone read all the manuals everyone would know everything [01:34] and nobody would have issues :P [01:34] wanna learn more about apt-get then you should run apt-get --help or man apt-get for even more info [01:34] right now no! [01:34] my head is about to explode [01:34] but eventually? if i get motivated enough, yeah [01:34] if i get pushed away, maybe not [01:34] see that teh nice thing you dont ever have to touch the cli if you don't want to [01:35] i do want to touch the cli [01:35] clearly it has really strong use in linux community [01:35] but asking for help here you will often get a cli answer because as i said before its much easier to answer that way [01:35] but im going step by step [01:35] terminal is great.. then again i use it alot when i use windows and when i use mac os [01:35] and first few steps are realy like a 2 year old child learning to walk [01:35] or 1 year old [01:35] xD [01:35] i dunno when they learn [01:36] ill tell you one thing that i think i already said before [01:37] if UI was more user friendly there would be so much less need for console [01:37] no the console will always be used [01:37] no need to use it if you can do same thing in GUI [01:37] just because you dont need console stuff don't mean other don't i can do somethings so much faster in a conssole [01:38] and you can't pipe gui programs [01:38] that's the thing, there is a trade off of how much you can do faster on console vs how much time you have to spend learning all thats needed to use iit [01:39] and for many things GUI properly done wins [01:39] how long have you used windows ? [01:39] very long [01:39] 20 years [01:39] did u learn it all in one day ? [01:40] nope [01:40] ok then expect the same here [01:40] but this isnt the issue of not learning it in one day [01:40] dont rush yourself use the gui [01:40] this is the issue of gonig from command line to GUI [01:40] that is irrelevant to OS [01:40] no its a key feature [01:41] i would loose teh GUI in linux before i lost the CLI . [01:41] why [01:41] and i feel not the same about windows becuse the CLI sucks [01:41] ask yourself why [01:41] because the CLI is in many way much more useful and powerful [01:42] and requires more knowledge and precision and time to learn it [01:42] see there is a trade off [01:42] but you don't need to use it . shit ms.sith don't use it at all has used linux for about 10 years now . dont even know what the cli i s [01:42] well you see when i used computers i learned the cli first because that is what they had. [01:43] i knew what cli is before i ever used windows :) [01:43] before windows i owned amiga500 [01:43] yeah [01:43] before amiga500 i owned zx spectrum 48k [01:43] thats what im saying the linux one has its roots deep in the os. [01:43] I still have my ZX81 :) [01:43] yeah it takes time to learn [01:44] and i disagree about command line and it's usability [01:44] you don't need to know it if you just want to use the gui thats cool [01:44]