| === Guest37794 is now known as Zic | ||
| === ghostcube_ is now known as ghostcube | ||
| === kitterma is now known as ScottK | ||
| === ghostcube__ is now known as ghostcube | ||
| rharper | \o | 16:03 |
|---|---|---|
| caribou | o/ | 16:03 |
| matsubara | o/ | 16:03 |
| jgrimm | o/ | 16:03 |
| arges | o/ | 16:03 |
| thedac | o/ | 16:03 |
| smb | o/ | 16:04 |
| beisner | o/ | 16:05 |
| smoser | o/ | 16:06 |
| smoser | heyt. | 16:06 |
| smoser | i guess its me. | 16:06 |
| smoser | whoops | 16:06 |
| smoser | #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team | 16:06 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 16:06:49 2015 UTC. The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 16:06 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 16:06 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: | ||
| smoser | #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting | 16:06 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting | ||
| smoser | seems like agenda did not get updated i think... | 16:07 |
| smoser | as my caction item bug 1461242 there is fixe | 16:07 |
| ubottu | bug 1461242 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Vivid) "cloud-init does not generate ed25519 keys" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461242 | 16:07 |
| smoser | i'll remvoe that | 16:07 |
| smoser | other item listed there is : | 16:07 |
| smoser | Thoughts about numad | 16:07 |
| smoser | anyone know of more content on that ? | 16:08 |
| rharper | I've not poked the team | 16:08 |
| smoser | ok, well please add that to TODO list / bump its priority | 16:08 |
| rharper | smoser: it's a background action item for me to collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff | 16:08 |
| smoser | #action rharper collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff | 16:09 |
| meetingology | ACTION: rharper collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff | 16:09 |
| smoser | #topic Wily Development | 16:09 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development | ||
| smoser | #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule | 16:09 |
| smoser | beta1 freeze is thursday. | 16:09 |
| smoser | and we're past feature freeze now. | 16:09 |
| smoser | so ffe will have to be opened for any new features uyou want. | 16:09 |
| smoser | anything else ? | 16:10 |
| smoser | #subtopic Release Bugs | 16:10 |
| caribou | yes, | 16:10 |
| smoser | ok... go caribou | 16:10 |
| caribou | nm, I'll bring that up at my turn | 16:10 |
| caribou | carry on | 16:10 |
| smoser | k | 16:11 |
| smoser | #subtopic Release Bugs | 16:11 |
| smoser | #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server | 16:11 |
| smoser | loading... | 16:11 |
| smoser | i have one there for keepalived , bu have been out for thelast two weeks. | 16:13 |
| smoser | i'll try to get proress on that by next week. | 16:13 |
| smoser | anyone interesated in others ? | 16:13 |
| smoser | seems like wesley may hav made progress on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/214863711/wily-debdiff | 16:13 |
| smoser | err.. on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/214863711/wily-debdiff | 16:13 |
| smoser | someone want to shepard that through ? | 16:13 |
| smoser | ok. well, that one at very least seems like we shoudl do some mocvement on it. | 16:14 |
| magicalChicken | smoser: Yeah, I got a fix uploaded for that one | 16:14 |
| magicalChicken | smoser: I need someone to sponsor it though | 16:15 |
| smoser | oh. ok. magicalChicken i can see if i can do that for you. | 16:15 |
| magicalChicken | smoser: Awesome, thanks | 16:15 |
| rbasak | I'm behind on sponsoring team bugfixes. Shall I gather a list maybe of who in the team is waiting on sponsorship and try and work through them? | 16:15 |
| rbasak | Though if smoser wants to work on this one feel free :) | 16:15 |
| smoser | thanks. for those playing along at home, magicalChicken == wesley | 16:16 |
| rbasak | magicalChicken, smoser: note: on my very quick glance you need to s/Closes/LP: #/ in the changelog entry. Closes refers to Debian bugs so it won't autoclose the LP one otherwise. | 16:16 |
| smoser | i'm way behind on other things too as a week out did. | 16:16 |
| smoser | so i'll leave that to rbasak or smoser | 16:16 |
| smoser | and we'll move on, but yeah, you want to reference the ubuntu bug with: | 16:16 |
| rbasak | I'll happily take an action to sponsor all outstanding sponsorship requests before the next meeting. | 16:16 |
| magicalChicken | rbasak: Aah, i didn't know that. I'll fix that | 16:17 |
| smoser | LP: #1478149 | 16:17 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1478149 in python-tornado (Ubuntu Wily) "python-tornado tests fail against python3.5" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1478149 | 16:17 |
| rbasak | magno problem! | 16:17 |
| smoser | moving on. | 16:17 |
| smoser | k ? | 16:17 |
| smoser | #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou) | 16:17 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou) | ||
| caribou | my request for sponsorship of the rsyslog merge didn't get picked up | 16:17 |
| caribou | & we're passed FF | 16:17 |
| rbasak | Sorry :-/ | 16:17 |
| caribou | I'dl like the audience opinion on going for FFE on this one | 16:17 |
| caribou | so it gets its bits shaken before LTS | 16:18 |
| rbasak | I was swamped around feature freeze and didn't manage to get through all requests. | 16:18 |
| rbasak | I still have a pile of FFEs to do. | 16:18 |
| caribou | rbasak: no worry, I pinged a few others who were swamped as well :) | 16:18 |
| smoser | caribou, your rsyslog ? | 16:18 |
| caribou | I have a potential sponsor now if I get the FFE through | 16:18 |
| smoser | oh. merge. | 16:18 |
| rbasak | I'm not sure it makes sense to FFE everything we missed. It just means that we have less time to fix bugs. | 16:19 |
| caribou | smoser: yes, current is 7.4.4 and debian has 8.9.0 | 16:19 |
| smoser | i'd personlly feel ok to push a ffe for rsyslog. | 16:19 |
| smoser | as we would like to have that newer version for x | 16:19 |
| rbasak | OTOH I have no objection to individuals driving their own FFEs. | 16:19 |
| smoser | and having it cook longer would be good | 16:19 |
| caribou | I'm fine with preparing it & let the server team drive it | 16:19 |
| rbasak | I don't want to take on driving more FFEs - I have a number I'm taking care of already | 16:20 |
| rbasak | And if I take on more, then they're only going to slip anyway. | 16:20 |
| caribou | rbasak: true; ok I'll lead this one & may ask for help on my way | 16:20 |
| smoser | ok. well, then . seems like unless someone steps up that will drop | 16:20 |
| smoser | :-( | 16:20 |
| caribou | smoser: it won't, I'll do it | 16:21 |
| rbasak | I'm fine with that caribou - thanks. | 16:21 |
| smoser | ah. ok. good. | 16:21 |
| smoser | #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara) | 16:21 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara) | ||
| smoser | caribou, above, if you do have questions, please feel free to ask. | 16:21 |
| matsubara | nothing new to report smoser | 16:21 |
| caribou | smoser: k | 16:21 |
| smoser | #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) | 16:21 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) | ||
| smb | Nothing here that I can think of right now. Are there questions? | 16:21 |
| smoser | k | 16:23 |
| smoser | #topic Upcoming Call For Papers | 16:23 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers | ||
| smoser | anything here ? | 16:23 |
| smoser | i dont have anything. | 16:24 |
| smoser | #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events | 16:24 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events | ||
| smoser | anyone speaking or attending soon and want to mention ? | 16:24 |
| smoser | #topic Open Discussion | 16:24 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion | ||
| rharper | smoser: on the bcache-tools sru to trusty | 16:24 |
| smoser | ah. yeah. | 16:25 |
| rharper | smoser: you were saying that we probably don't need the TB exception since we wouldn't be regressing things vs. upstream ? | 16:25 |
| smoser | unles we put it into an image, then we're virtually guaranteed to not regress aything | 16:26 |
| rharper | wouldn't it go into either cloud image or ephemeral? or just rely on them to pull it down from archive as needed ? | 16:26 |
| rbasak | I don't think the SRU team will accept it under current SRU policy without a TB-approved exception, but we can see. | 16:26 |
| rharper | updated curtin for example, will auto pull in lvm2, mdadm and bcache-tools | 16:26 |
| smoser | sru team would probasbly accept it. | 16:26 |
| smoser | other than putting it into an image. | 16:27 |
| smoser | if its not in an image, then it wont regress anything. | 16:27 |
| smoser | its generally ok to put new things ito old releases for important feature / hardware enablement./ | 16:27 |
| rbasak | I agree that it probably won't regress anything. I'm sure the SRU team won't object on that basis either. | 16:27 |
| smoser | but putting it into a maas ephemeral image means it becomes part of the default install of a maas from ubuntu | 16:27 |
| smoser | which i can see as possible potential for regression | 16:28 |
| rbasak | But AFAIK no "important feature" has ever been SRU'd as new package that wasn't hardware enablement without a TB exception. | 16:28 |
| rharper | in either case (as I have a write up for the TB); the bigger issue IMO is the edge testing on bcache-tools | 16:29 |
| rbasak | Anyway, it doesn't really matter. It won't create extra or duplicate work whichever way we decide to approach this, so I don't mind either way. | 16:29 |
| rharper | while both server and maas teams have been using the bcache-tools package and bcache feature | 16:29 |
| rbasak | If the SRU team want an exception from the TB then we can ask for one - there won't be any harm done. | 16:29 |
| smoser | rharper, well, putting buggy bcache-tools into trusty isnt necessarily bad on its own. | 16:30 |
| rharper | I don't feel those have been edge tested, ie, what happens when we drop the cache device, changing cache modes, recovery, twiddling the sysfs writable values on bcache; | 16:30 |
| rharper | smoser: it's an LTS | 16:30 |
| rharper | so it can hurt for longer | 16:30 |
| smoser | except for when it is annoyingly buggy | 16:30 |
| smoser | and bcache-utils *is* annoyingly buggy | 16:30 |
| rharper | well | 16:30 |
| rharper | sorta | 16:30 |
| rharper | the main function doesn't appear that way | 16:30 |
| rharper | but it's quite awkward to deal with | 16:31 |
| smoser | right. | 16:31 |
| smoser | which could happen unintentionally | 16:31 |
| rharper | which is why I started on that bcache-release script to help folks "cleanup" the mess | 16:31 |
| rharper | yes | 16:31 |
| smoser | thats the point i think is important really. | 16:31 |
| smoser | is that you're essentially suggesting it become part of a default install | 16:32 |
| smoser | and thus it requires significantly more thought | 16:32 |
| rharper | as per maas request | 16:32 |
| smoser | than just adding a package to the archive that will not be used by someone unless they "opt in" | 16:32 |
| rharper | to make trusty ~= vivid ~= wily w.r.t storage config features | 16:32 |
| rharper | ok | 16:32 |
| smoser | so.. i'd say go to TB i guess. | 16:33 |
| rharper | and include some bits on in archive, vs. in image | 16:33 |
| smoser | and be clear that your intent is to add it to a "default install". as i think thats the intent. | 16:33 |
| rharper | and a follow up with maas, can they get by with 'in archive' vs. 'in image' | 16:33 |
| smoser | if instead curtin will install it into the ephemeral image and then into the target only when it is needed, then it requires much less scrutiny in my opintion | 16:34 |
| smoser | becase even then, its essentially "opt in" by a user of maas. | 16:34 |
| rharper | that's how it is today | 16:34 |
| rharper | and unless maas complains about the extra hit to archive to pull in deps | 16:34 |
| rharper | likely not since we're not going to put lvm2 nor mdadm into default install, no ? | 16:34 |
| rharper | smoser: it didn't seem likely given your discussion re: mdadm + mail dep in #ubuntu-devel the other week | 16:35 |
| rbasak | That's going to slow down the install though, no? | 16:35 |
| rharper | so I don't think bcache-tools not in default install is a significant burden since it still has lvm2 and mdadm to install | 16:35 |
| rharper | rbasak: indeed | 16:35 |
| rbasak | We don't really want curtin to have to install packages locally in the long term. | 16:35 |
| rharper | but we'd need all 3 deps to be in | 16:35 |
| smoser | shoot. i had to follow up on that... i thought the discussion ended with 'lets add it'. | 16:35 |
| rbasak | It might be acceptable for Trusty though. | 16:35 |
| rharper | smoser: maybe it did; I only saw the initial discussion w.r.t the mail deps | 16:35 |
| smoser | i'm on same page with rbasak. | 16:36 |
| rharper | folks saying, no if I have a raid I really would like to have it send an email if something is wrong (w.r.t the madm dep on postfix) | 16:36 |
| smoser | we want the default install to have those things, so we should work to get them into wily and then X | 16:36 |
| smoser | but if we can live with trusty being less than perfect than that is good. | 16:36 |
| rharper | so trusty and vivid need runtime deps installed via curtin | 16:36 |
| rharper | wily could be fixed and in=place for x | 16:37 |
| rbasak | Yeah. X is only round the corner now anyway. | 16:37 |
| rharper | trusty and vivid | 16:37 |
| rharper | but, yes | 16:37 |
| rharper | unless you rebuild those images IIUC | 16:37 |
| smoser | well the images are re-built, but we'd have to add those packages. | 16:37 |
| rharper | sure | 16:37 |
| rbasak | That's a good point. If you implement in curtin with a test, it'll always be possible to get a local speed up by hacking your local ephemeral image if it matters to you. | 16:38 |
| smoser | ok. so i think this is beaten. i guess you should go ahead to TB. | 16:38 |
| smoser | rharper, and we should get those packages into wily cloud and maas images. | 16:38 |
| rharper | smoser: ok, can you add the action items then ? | 16:38 |
| rharper | are we OK with the level of edge testing then ? | 16:38 |
| smoser | #action rharper send email to TB about bcache-utils into trusty | 16:39 |
| meetingology | ACTION: rharper send email to TB about bcache-utils into trusty | 16:39 |
| rharper | that was the only thing holding me back before sending to TB | 16:39 |
| caribou | bcache-utils == bcache-tools ? | 16:39 |
| rharper | yes | 16:39 |
| smoser | right | 16:39 |
| smoser | #action smoser, rharper get other packages into cloud-image necessary for storage features. | 16:40 |
| meetingology | ACTION: smoser, rharper get other packages into cloud-image necessary for storage features. | 16:40 |
| rharper | smoser: ok, I'm good | 16:40 |
| smoser | #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair | 16:41 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair | ||
| smoser | next meeting will be Tuesday, September 1 at 16:00 UTC | 16:41 |
| smoser | chair will be gnuoy | 16:41 |
| smoser | #endmeeting | 16:41 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 16:41:54 2015 UTC. | 16:41 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-25-16.06.moin.txt | 16:41 |
| caribou | smoser: thanks! | 16:42 |
| jsalisbury | #startmeeting | 17:00 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Tue Aug 25 17:00:28 2015 UTC. The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 17:00 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | ## | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting. | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | ## | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily | 17:00 |
| smb | o/ | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | # Meeting Etiquette | 17:00 |
| cking | o/ | 17:00 |
| henrix | o/ | 17:00 |
| ppisati | o/ | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | # | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input. | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | # 'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized) | 17:00 |
| jsalisbury | [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury) | 17:01 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury) | ||
| jsalisbury | Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link: | 17:01 |
| jsalisbury | [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt | 17:01 |
| jsalisbury | .. | 17:01 |
| jsalisbury | [TOPIC] Status: CVE's | 17:01 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's | ||
| jsalisbury | The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link: | 17:02 |
| jsalisbury | [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html | 17:02 |
| jsalisbury | .. | 17:02 |
| jsalisbury | [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf) | 17:02 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf) | ||
| bjf | Status for the main kernels, until today: | 17:02 |
| bjf | * Precise - Verification & Testing | 17:02 |
| bjf | * Trusty - Verification & Testing | 17:02 |
| bjf | * lts-Utopic - Verification & Testing | 17:02 |
| bjf | * Vivid - Verification & Testing | 17:02 |
| bjf | 17:02 | |
| bjf | Current opened tracking bugs details: | 17:02 |
| bjf | * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html | 17:02 |
| bjf | For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information: | 17:02 |
| bjf | * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html | 17:02 |
| bjf | 17:02 | |
| bjf | 17:02 | |
| bjf | Schedule: | 17:02 |
| bjf | 17:02 | |
| bjf | cycle: 16-Aug through 05-Sep | 17:02 |
| bjf | ==================================================================== | 17:02 |
| bjf | 14-Aug Last day for kernel commits for this cycle | 17:02 |
| bjf | 15-Aug - 22-Aug Kernel prep week. | 17:02 |
| bjf | 23-Aug - 29-Aug Bug verification & Regression testing. | 17:03 |
| bjf | 30-Aug - 05-Sep Regression testing & Release to -updates. | 17:03 |
| bjf | .. | 17:03 |
| jsalisbury | [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/) | 17:03 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/) | ||
| jsalisbury | Thanks everyone | 17:04 |
| jsalisbury | #endmeeting | 17:04 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 17:04:19 2015 UTC. | 17:04 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-25-17.00.moin.txt | 17:04 |
| kamal | thanks jsalisbury | 17:05 |
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