[11:24] <bzoltan_> didrocks: hi there,  may i have an LP/builder realted question?
[11:26] <didrocks> bzoltan_: sure
[11:28] <bzoltan_> didrocks:  so, i have made this pretty simple and pretty funny Ubuntu SDK IDE project -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzoltan/ubuntu-sdk-ide/trunk/view/head:/CMakeLists.txt
[11:28] <bzoltan_> didrocks:  it builds an archive independent QtCreator with our plugins ... it gives unified UX from LTS to Wily
[11:28] <bzoltan_> didrocks:  simple and easy ...
[11:29] <bzoltan_> didrocks:  _BUT_ the catch is that LP builders do not like wget'ing upstream source tarballs
[11:29] <didrocks> yeah, they are isolated from any network operation but the archive
[11:30] <bzoltan_> didrocks:  what would be the solution... other than adding a 500MB tar.gz to the project/source package?
[11:30] <didrocks> to avoid people trying to include things that we don't control
[11:30] <didrocks> well, I guess adding the tar.gz is the only way
[11:30] <didrocks> ask the libreoffice maintainer ;)
[11:32] <bzoltan_> didrocks:  can we bzr branch from LP projects?
[11:33] <didrocks> bzoltan_: no, for the same reason, you need to be able to reproduce the build
[11:33] <didrocks> and nothing will testify that you can bzr branch the same rev at any future point in time
[11:34] <bzoltan_> didrocks:  ehhh... that will make it difficult
[11:34] <bzoltan_> didrocks:  but thanks ... I try to figure out something
[11:34] <didrocks> good luck :)
[16:17] <mcphail> Can I use GTK+ as a toolkit for development as per https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk-mir.html ?
[16:41] <aquarius> oSoMoN or maybe daker, ping about touch gestures in the webapp-container
[16:56] <aquarius> gah, xchat crash! Haven't seen that in a while.
[16:57] <dobey> mcphail: sure, but you will probably have to ship all of gtk+ in your package to do so
[17:00] <mcphail> dobey: nevertheless, that is good news. I can handle C much better than C++
[17:01] <mcphail> dobey: and I have an archive of GTK+ apps I use for work
[17:02] <dobey> mcphail: there is no version of the ubuntu ui toolkit for gtk+ though, so whether your app will be useful on a touch screen will depend on how much effort you put into making that work
[17:02] <mcphail> dobey: ack
[17:03] <dobey> gtk+ itself will also probably need some changes to its build, to be useful, and not have filesystem paths compiled into the binary
[17:04] <mcphail> dobey: Having never built gtk+ from source, I imagine this will be an adventure :)
[17:59] <davmor2> ahayzen: hey dude is there a way on desktop to import an album to a playlist?
[18:00] <ahayzen> davmor2, just go to the album, press and hold a track, press select all in the header... then press add to playlist in the header
[18:01] <davmor2> ahayzen: awesome thanks I knew there was a way I just couldn't remember it :)
[18:02] <ahayzen> no problem :-)
[18:06] <davmor2> ahayzen: that's it all 13 cd's of the bbc radio adaptation of Lord of the rings now in a play list \o/
[18:07] <ahayzen> \o/
[18:14] <davmor2> ahayzen: I upgraded to wily earlier this week so now most of the apps work so I thought I trial them on the desktop as much as possible,  I'm still missing gpg signing for dekko, but I thought a nice LOTR marathon at work tomorrow would put the music player through it's paces :)
[18:15] <ahayzen> :-)
[18:15] <ahayzen> as long as mediascanner plays ball most things are ok
[18:15] <davmor2> ahayzen: and issue number 1 76 songs
[18:16] <ahayzen> we have a few branches working on prototypes for convergent views
[18:19] <davmor2> ahayzen: nice, I'll also be happy to see jims mh landing for playlist support finally land, but rvr hit an issue testing that today :(
[18:19] <ahayzen> yeah i have a list of issues for Jim as well :-)
[18:21] <davmor2> ahayzen: yeah so songs doesn't work for spoken word ;)
[18:55] <nik90> ahayzen: \o, are you going to put out a translation-call to translate that 1 string before release?
[19:10] <ahayzen> nik90, probably :-)
[19:17] <mcphail> dobey: compiling gtk+ really is like going down the rabbit hole...
[19:21] <dobey> mcphail: indeed
[19:23] <mcphail> dobey: might wait until wily is usable, as I pesume that will have 3.16 as default. Mir support without patches etc
[19:26] <dobey> mcphail: it won't be on the phone image, and it won't be built in a way that is suitable for shipping inside a click
[19:26] <dobey> mcphail: you'll still need to build it yourself and most of the deps
[19:28] <mcphail> dobey: yes, but it is the deps which are killing me. Right now I'm having to chase everything down to glib. At least _that_ will be on the default install
[19:30] <dobey> yes
[19:30] <dobey> and it will still kill you when the phone images are upgraded to 16.04 base
[19:31] <mcphail> maybe
[19:32] <dobey> well, i doubt gtk+ is going to get simpler to build :)
[19:32] <mcphail> ha!
[19:33] <mcphail> maybe some kind soul will create a click template with it all bundled together
[19:34]  * mcphail suspects sturmflut2 could do it
[19:51] <nik90> ahayzen: could you guys do it soon..since we want to badly release clock app soon. Hopefully I am not rushing you guys ;)
[19:51] <nik90> hmm too many uses of "soon"
[19:52] <ahayzen> :-) i'll have a chat with Victor tonight to check he has got any extra things to land, he mentioned somethnig at the last meeting
[19:55] <ahayzen> nik90, have you played with the AdaptivePageLayout thing yet?
[19:56] <nik90> ahayzen: no not yet..I am upgrading my development laptop to wily to get UC 1.3
[19:56] <nik90> and all those new stuff
[19:56] <nik90> ahayzen: have you?
[19:56]  * ahayzen just has a local branch of uitk
[19:57] <ahayzen> yup was playing about last night
[19:57] <nik90> ahayzen: I did do that once just to look at the new API properties it brings..but didnt have any sample code to try it out.
[19:57] <ahayzen> not sure we'll be able to use it for a right sidebar for music in its current form though :-/
[19:57] <ahayzen> Tim put sample code in his blog post
[19:57] <nik90> well I heard t1mp say you cant mix pagestack and AdaptivePageLayout
[19:58] <nik90> so it will be tricky
[19:58] <ahayzen> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2015/08/10/adaptive-page-layouts/
[19:58] <ahayzen> yeah and tabs :-)
[19:58] <nik90> sry I meant Tabs*
[19:58] <ahayzen> :-)
[19:58] <nik90> And you guys definitely need tabs
[19:58] <ahayzen> and it seems that the right side is linked to the left side.. so if you push something to the left the right is then blank
[19:58] <ahayzen> but we want the right to always be the queue/now playing page
[19:59] <ahayzen> ...unless ofc we change the design :-)
[20:03] <nik90> hmm yes
[20:04] <ahayzen> so we're back to our tricky situation :-/
[20:05] <ahayzen> like we have a prototype branch that has the now playing/queue page as a sidebar, but we need a way of having two header action sections as at the moment we've had to disable header actions for the sidebar
[20:06] <nik90> hmm...do you have a screenshot of the design? Might help me process this more clearly
[20:08] <ahayzen> nik90, https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3XynHVKfrvMejVpQVhUd1J3ZWM/edit
[20:08] <ahayzen> nik90, lp:~ahayzen/music-app/refactor-pull-now-playing-sidebar is 'close' to that :-) (in a slightly hacky way with no header actions :-/ )
[20:13] <nik90> ahayzen: Hmmm you guys are stuck between using Ubuntu.Layouts and AdaptivePageLayouts since both of them individually don't offer all the functionality you need.
[20:13] <ahayzen> yup the layouts i could never get to work perfectly anyway
[20:13] <ahayzen> ^^ branch just uses Loaders with anchors hehe :-)
[20:14] <nik90> but I think Ubuntu.Layouts might be more suited though since the sidebar is a component that morphs between a sidebar and a bottom-bar
[20:14] <nik90> ofc. Ubuntu.Layouts stuff can be done using anchor changes and loaders..but all that code is nicely abstracted using ubuntu.layouts
[20:14] <ahayzen> we need a component that can allow us to put two pagestacks next to each other.. with header actions for each ... and allowing tabs to get in the left as well
[20:15] <nik90> Why do you need two pagestacks next to each other?
[20:15] <nik90> I see the sidebar being a constant element shwoing the now-playing component and a play queue list.
[20:15] <ahayzen> or at least a pagestack on the left
[20:15] <ahayzen> and a page on the right that is not linked to the left
[20:17] <nik90> but does the page on the right change at any point?
[20:17] <ahayzen> probably not
[20:17] <ahayzen> but it needs its own set of header actions
[20:17] <ahayzen> which is what the layout doesn't give us IIRC
[20:18] <ahayzen> and the adaptivepagelayout gives us the header actions but the right side is not static from what i've seen
[20:19] <nik90> Yup and that's where you need to make a choice of either adaptivepagelayout of ubuntu.layout depending on which comes really close to the design document.
[20:19] <ahayzen> like the tabs we could get rid of and use page header sections, as thats close to what the design looks like anyway
[20:19] <nik90> or talk to t1mp about this.
[20:20] <nik90> hhmm yes that's not tabs!
[20:20] <nik90> that's header sections
[20:20] <nik90> you're right
[20:20] <ahayzen> the adaptivepagelayout is close but i'll need to put loads of code in to force the right side to always be the now playing
[20:20] <ahayzen> and not lose the scroll position or states etc
[20:21] <nik90> check if t1mp if that's worth the effort and also get his opinion.
[20:21] <ahayzen> yeah i think thats best :-)
[20:22] <nik90> its tricky indeed
[20:36]  * ahoneybun just got the OTA
[20:37] <ahoneybun> mmm still have GPS issues
[20:37] <ahoneybun> Clock can not find where I am
[20:37] <ahoneybun> *cannot
[20:38] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: if I understand correctly, it looks like the same problem I have with the powerpoint docs support in the lo-viewer :S
[20:38] <nik90> ahoneybun: does it just say "retrieving location" ?
[20:39] <ahoneybun> yea
[20:39] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, whats the problem you have? (the screenshots look awesome btw)
[20:39] <ahoneybun> nik90: ^
[20:41] <nik90> ahoneybun: hmm, check in system-settings app if you have AGPS (HERE support) available and ticked.
[20:41] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: the ListView with the list of slides which has to behave differently according its usage (as bottom edge page, or as sidebar)
[20:42] <ahayzen> ahoneybun, do other apps get location? and try restarting the device, i sometimes find the location service gets confused somehow
[20:42] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, i guess you want the listview on the left and the presentation on the right in a converged or 'wideaspect' mode ?
[20:43] <mcphail> popey: you tried the unity engine for linux yet? Apparently can export to webgl. Maybe an avenue for more Ubuntu games?
[20:43] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: it did get a reboot for the update
[20:43] <ahoneybun> but I'll do what nik90 said and then reboot
[20:44] <ahayzen> check whats in /var/crash as well, bet there is a location one if it isn't what nik said :-)
[20:44] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: yep. For what I understood of your issue, you may want to use Ubuntu.Layouts for creating the sidebar, and have an Item which includes the queue list and the controls
[20:44] <ahoneybun> I don't have that in settings nik90
[20:44] <ahayzen> ah
[20:45] <ahoneybun> mako
[20:45] <sverzegnassi> then the Item provides the section headers and the proper view (queue or controls or both)
[20:45] <ahayzen> ahoneybun, so you won't have the AGPS support, which image channel are you on?
[20:45] <ahoneybun> stable
[20:45] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: mako stable
[20:45] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, this basically https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3XynHVKfrvMejVpQVhUd1J3ZWM/edit
[20:45] <ahoneybun> just got to r23
[20:45]  * ahayzen checks the list
[20:46] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zAAODZFwQ2QzhBOFpUcjZKZWM/view?usp=sharing
[20:46] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, the ubuntu.layouts don't allow us to have two header actions...and the adaptivepagelayout doesn't (from what i can see) allow us to have a fixed right side
[20:47] <ahoneybun> nothing in /var/crash btw ahayzen
[20:47] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: which scenario do you need the second header in? On phones?
[20:47] <ahoneybun> rpadovani: around?
[20:47] <ahayzen> ahoneybun, which one are you on? ;-) http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12202059/
[20:47] <sverzegnassi> oh, now I saw the position of the sections... :S
[20:47] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, table/desktop for the right sidebar we need header actions as you do multiselect and stuff in the queue
[20:48] <ahoneybun> I think this: ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu
[20:48] <ahoneybun> yea cuz I don;t have the BQ stuff
[20:48] <ahayzen> the ubuntu one doesn't have the HERE binaries ;-)
[20:48] <ahoneybun> yep
[20:48] <ahoneybun> damn
[20:48] <ahayzen> try ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en
[20:48] <ahayzen> i'm on ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/bq-aquaris.en and it has HERE stuff
[20:50] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: so the normal channel has no working GPS... ?
[20:50] <ahayzen> ahoneybun, the ubuntu one is proprietary code free, from my understanding..it has working GPS just not aGPS
[20:51] <ahayzen> (which means it'll take many minutes to get a lock)
[20:51] <ahoneybun> damnit
[20:51] <ahayzen> use the bq channel and it should work :-)
[20:51] <ahoneybun> Unity 8 is proprietary code so lies!
[20:52] <ahoneybun> :)
[20:52] <ahayzen> ...but the unity8 code is here .. https://code.launchpad.net/unity8 ;-)
[20:52] <ahoneybun> I've heard some things are missing
[20:52] <nik90> ?
[20:53] <nik90> Some are server side like scopes data and so on
[20:53] <nik90> but everything else is there in the link ahayzen mentioned
[20:53] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: never checked, but it _should_ be possible to add a second Header component, not related to MainView or PageStack, as we usually do for another UITK component... although I'm not completely sure if it's the best solution for code quality.
[20:53] <ahoneybun> anyway I'm not here to start a fight about that
[20:53] <ahoneybun> not saying anything at all
[20:54] <nik90> ;)
[20:54] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, yeah for us the best way would be to have a component that allowed us to have a second panel/section that has its own header component...doing that in pure QML could be fun though :-/
[20:54]  * ahoneybun thinks about flashing that other channel
[20:54] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, think i'll poke the sdk guys when their about
[20:55] <ahoneybun> my problem is the damn ubuntu-device-flash package is holding up android-tools-adb and -fastboot from getting updated
[20:57] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en  ?
[20:57] <ahayzen> might wanna put the device as well but yeah i think its that
[20:57] <ahoneybun> it detects it no?
[20:57] <ahayzen> i'm about to reflash mine anyway so need to reremember the cmd :-)
[20:57] <ahoneybun> it has in the past
[20:57] <ahayzen> think so :-)
[20:57]  * ahayzen doesn't reflash that often
[20:58] <ahoneybun> I've moved my N4: Ubuntu -> LunaOS -> Sailfish -> Android -> Ubuntu lol
[20:58] <ahayzen> haha mine went boot android -> enable developer mode -> ubuntu
[20:59] <ahoneybun> yay errors!
[20:59] <ahoneybun> oh snap
[20:59] <ahoneybun> Steam finished downloading a game :)
[21:01] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: how do I see what channel I'm on?
[21:01] <mcphail> Steam and GOG are the main barriers to Ubuntu development
[21:01] <ahayzen> ahoneybun, system-image-cli -i
[21:01] <ahayzen> (run on the device)
[21:01] <ahoneybun> I see the issue
[21:01] <ahoneybun> adb devices sees the device
[21:02] <ahoneybun> but adb shell is having issues
[21:02] <ahayzen> ah reboot into recovery then :-)
[21:02] <ahoneybun> oh lockscreen!
[21:02] <ahayzen> (to reflash)
[21:02] <ahayzen> or the lockscreen ;-)
[21:02] <ahayzen> i've had issues before where it complains about not being able to push things across, which were fixed by going into recovery..magic
[21:03] <ahoneybun> channel: ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu
[21:03] <ahoneybun> we have recovery?
[21:03] <ahoneybun> whaaaattt
[21:04] <ahayzen> the androidy one
[21:04] <ahoneybun> butttt
[21:04] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen, it seems to be already possible (at least using UITK 1.3): https://imgur.com/g3TbX1y && http://paste.ubuntu.com/12202130/
[21:05] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, ooo but they are ontop of each other, we need the sidebar one to be to the right (for music) ?
[21:06] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: I didn't set any position for the second header, so it's at (0, 0)... let's see if I can move it anywhere in the window
[21:06] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, and i assume you can't make them into the actual header bar? they would have to be below that ?
[21:10] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, what would happen if we replaced the head.contents with two of our own header things to contain the actions ? https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/apps/qml/sdk-15.04/Ubuntu.Components.PageHeadConfiguration/
[21:10] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: yes, I think the second header would stay inside the area used for the page content (below the first/main header). It behaves like any component (except for anchors.left: parent.left; anchors.right: parent.right, which is default)
[21:10] <ahayzen> https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/apps/qml/sdk-15.04/Ubuntu.Components.PageHeadConfiguration/#contents-prop
[21:12] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: recovery magic :)
[21:12] <ahoneybun> strikes again
[21:12] <ahayzen> ahoneybun, whats up ?
[21:12] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: PageHeadConfiguration and even PageHeadState should work as usual, since you can set the target head. Just tried to add a Rectangle as head.contents and it's shown
[21:12] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: entered recovery, then tried again
[21:12] <ahoneybun> flashing
[21:13] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, but say we build a custom component that held the left and right actions, which we then set to the head.contents
[21:13] <ahayzen> i could see that potentially working
[21:13] <ahayzen> pretty hacky though
[21:14] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: do you talk about the anchoring of head.contents? It seems to work... yep, anyway it's hacky :/
[21:15] <ahayzen> i mean leave the head.actions blank so that the contents is full width .. and then build a compoennt to contain the left and right ones so that it appears like there are two sets of header actions
[21:18] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: supposed that the orange rect is your component, something like this? https://imgur.com/t4fBZnD
[21:18] <ahayzen> yeah but in the top tab bar thingy
[21:19] <ahayzen> time to prototype me thinks :-)
[21:19]  * ahoneybun crys
[21:19] <ahoneybun> *cries
[21:20] <ahayzen> ahoneybun, whats happened?
[21:20] <ahoneybun> Shadow of Mordor sucks
[21:20] <ahoneybun> the port to Linux does anyway
[21:20] <ahoneybun> :(
[21:20] <ahayzen> ah..so your mako has not self combusted :-)
[21:22] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: not sure... unless you reimplement the UITK header, which is madness (and not always working properly - see Match The Color header height)
[21:22] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, i'm gonna attempt to do something :-) not sure what yet though aha
[21:23] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: nothing happended really
[21:27] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: heh, I'm trying to create a custom header for Quick Memo, which behaves like the Android flexible header ( https://www.google.com/design/spec/patterns/scrolling-techniques.html ). With UITK 1.3 it's much easier (thanks to the ActionBar component), but I still need to find out how to hide the standard header :S
[21:28] <ahayzen> sverzegnassi, if you set no title it hides the standard header IIRC
[21:28] <ahayzen> (to the page)
[21:28] <ahayzen> eg in the new weather-app we have no header on the main pages
[21:28] <sverzegnassi> ahayzen: no with UITK 1.3. They added a setting to explicitely hide the header, but seems to be overwritten somewhere
[21:28] <ahayzen> ah
[21:32] <nik90> sverzegnassi: you do header { visible: false; locked: true }
[21:32] <t1mp> nik90, ahayzen: You could have an AdaptivePageLayout on the left, and anchor your own Item to its right side
[21:32] <nik90> that should hide it
[21:32] <ahayzen> t1mp, but i need header actions for the right side ?
[21:33] <t1mp> ahayzen: I'm working now on a separate Header component that you can put in any Item :)
[21:33] <nik90> ahayzen: yeah so instead of item, you anchor a Page on the right side which will have its own header
[21:33] <ahayzen> (and the left side ;-) )
[21:33] <ahayzen> ahh that'd be cool
[21:33] <t1mp> ahayzen: after that we're considering moving the Header to be part of the Page, instead of the MainView.. then you can put a Page on the right-hand side that has a header
[21:33] <ahayzen> is there an eta for that component?
[21:34] <nik90> t1mp: can we expect these changes to be part of 1.3?
[21:34] <ahayzen> 1.3 components maybe ? /me hides
[21:34] <nik90> since we're nearing release
[21:34] <ahayzen> otherwise i don't see how we can easily do the convergent stuff for music and potentially others
[21:37] <sverzegnassi> nik90: \o/ thanks! I missed the locked:true
[21:39] <t1mp> nik90, ahayzen: yes, maybe
[21:39] <ahayzen> hehe :-)
[21:40] <t1mp> nik90, ahayzen: we extended 1.3 a bit. It was supposed to be frozen for 14.10, but since it is mainly used for mobile apps, we freeze it later, when the device images switch to wiley
[21:40] <t1mp> I don't know the exact date for that, but I think we have a bit more time
[21:40] <ahayzen> t1mp, and that'll land with the framework bump and OTA7ish ?
[21:40] <ahayzen> or a pre-baked one will be in ota7?
[21:41] <t1mp> OTA7 is the next one? Then it won't be ready I think
[21:41] <ahayzen> yeah it is, and ok
[21:42] <ahayzen> nik90, what happened with the mako specific swipe to delete action thingy?
[21:42] <t1mp> so the Header component that you could put inside any Item I'm working on now, so that will come in the next few weeks
[21:43] <t1mp> changes to the Page/MainView won't come in 1.3
[21:43] <ahayzen> t1mp, ah but the header component might? that'll proobaby be enough to get us going
[21:43] <nik90> ahayzen: well it is being assigned to zsombi_ (looking at the bug report). You will have to follow that if it blocks music-app transition to the new list-items.
[21:43] <t1mp> and when those come, it would be the same API as now, except that you would also be able to use a Page outside of a MainView :)
[21:43] <t1mp> ahayzen: yes, that's right :)
[21:43] <ahayzen> t1mp, ok cool thanks
[21:44] <t1mp> nik90: which bug report?
[21:44] <ahayzen> nik90, yeah have you the bug number i lost it
[21:44]  * nik90 looks
[21:44] <t1mp> ah, the swipe to delete?
[21:44] <t1mp> the ListItem already has swipe to delete right?
[21:44] <t1mp> in 1.3
[21:44] <ahayzen> ..and i've marked it as blocking the MP at the moment as i know we'll get loads of bugs otherwise
[21:44] <nik90> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1486008
[21:44] <nik90> t1mp, ahayzen ^^
[21:44] <ahayzen> thanks
[21:45] <t1mp> right, that's for zsombi_
[21:46] <ahayzen> that won't be in OTA6 though :-/
[21:46] <t1mp> and jamie
[21:46] <ahayzen> will have to hold that MP for another cycle
[21:47] <t1mp> ahayzen, nik90: here is the Header API doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wUUKtPmRmwbUELC1BUB9l0VOAwS_zAPRSCqMopUxR1c/edit#heading=h.yv1xue68vkeu
[21:48] <nik90> t1mp: would you be adding an API to set the header background color as part of 1.3? The design spec for that looks too cool to wait any longer :D
[21:48] <nik90> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wZ09SVZPwwJOccG4Rqu5JaHDuWw051oSKjf0uJHUyO8/edit#slide=id.g8d903971d_064
[21:48] <ahayzen> t1mp, so PageHeader : Header { }  is what i'm interested in ?
[21:49] <t1mp> nik90: yes
[21:49] <nik90> Woohoo \o/
[21:49] <t1mp> nik90: I'm thinking to make it part of the HeaderStyle, but that part still needs to be worked out
[21:50] <t1mp> ahayzen: yes. Header will be something that behaves like a Header (the hiding and showing), but its contents is empty (so you can put anything you want)
[21:50] <ahayzen> awesome
[21:50] <t1mp> ahayzen: PageHeader will be a Header, filled with the stuff that we have now in the header. So that's basically on the left a back button or navigation overflow, then a title, and on the right an ActionBar. Plus optionally Sections at the bottom.
[21:51] <t1mp> feel free to add questions/suggestions to the doc. The more we discuss it now, the better the API will be in the end :)
[21:52] <ahayzen> t1mp, did you say further down the line the AdaptivePageLayout will work with tabs as well ?
[21:52]  * ahayzen is unsure if the music-app will just move to using page header sections or use tabs
[21:52] <t1mp> ahayzen: yes, something like that. But I still have to see all the designs, because maybe it needs to be much more flexible than the Tabs currently are
[21:52] <nik90> ah so PageHeadState now changes to HeaderState
[21:53] <t1mp> ahayzen: so maybe the app developers need to put icons in there, or section headers, or complete custom Items inside the panel
[21:53] <t1mp> nik90: oh you are too far down in the 'Archive' with previous suggestions
[21:53] <nik90> t1mp: I didnt see PageHeadState in the new proposed API, so I scrolled down much further.
[21:54] <sverzegnassi> t1mp: I read in the doc that devs will be able to override the height of an Header. Does that mean that we'll be able to do something similar to: https://www.google.com/design/spec/patterns/scrolling-techniques.html ?
[21:56] <t1mp> nik90: the PageHeadState is just a convenience component so that you don't have to define the properties for actions, contents etc in your app. That won't change
[21:56] <t1mp> sverzegnassi: what do you mean exactly? There is a lot on that page :)
[21:57] <t1mp> sverzegnassi: you will be able to put a Header with custom contents and custom background in your app, so I think you can reproduce most of what is on the page (I only quickly browsed the page, not read it in detail now)
[21:57] <sverzegnassi> t1mp: the scrollable header: e.g. as a page is pushed into the stack, you have a bigger header, then when you scroll a flickable, the header will take less space and go into a "compact" mode
[21:58] <sverzegnassi> (don't know if I explained it well)
[21:58] <t1mp> sverzegnassi: hmm, interesting. What I see under 'flexible space with image' looks cool. I didn't think of that before but I think you could reproduce that
[22:00] <t1mp> sverzegnassi: Header { Item { anchors.bottom: parent.bottom; height: parent.height + parent.y; Image { visible: parent.height > 100 } } }
[22:00] <nik90> t1mp, sverzegnassi: I suppose since Header is derived from StyledItem, the developer can manually specify the height and visibility of it. And manipulate the height property of the header directly?
[22:00] <t1mp> sverzegnassi: I guess you could do something like that (probably better, but that's not very readable in irc)
[22:00] <sverzegnassi> t1mp: ok, thanks! I'll surely try, in order to see if I can deprecate the custom header I'm writing
[22:00] <nik90> t1mp: do we need a Item{} inside Header{} to change its height? Can't we do it directly?
[22:01] <t1mp> ah, yes you would need 'stages' in the header, because currently when you release it, it either fully hides or shows depending on when you stop scrolling
[22:01] <t1mp> sverzegnassi: so it is a bit more complex then I thought, to avoid the auto-show/hide.
[22:02] <ahayzen> t1mp, so if we're adding these headers to Items or Pages or whatever, where will the header actions appear? just inset into the component? If so how would you get them into the tab bar in my case ?
[22:02] <t1mp> nik90: you can do it directly, but in my example I put the Item inside so that the Item changes height when you scroll the header. Like in the "Flexible space with image" on https://www.google.com/design/spec/patterns/scrolling-techniques.html#scrolling-techniques-scrolling
[22:03] <t1mp> nik90: you can set the height of the Header, but the height normally stays fixed to the height that you set. When you scroll your flickable, the header moves up and down without changing its height
[22:03] <nik90> ah okay
[22:04] <t1mp> ahayzen: can you explain that a bit more?
[22:04] <t1mp> ahayzen: so, the Header will have no contents. It is for you to fill.
[22:04] <t1mp> ahayzen: the PageHeader will have the regular actions on the right side. I will just put an ActionBar in there
[22:04] <t1mp> ahayzen: on the left side I also plan to add an ActionBar, but with numberOfSlots = 1
[22:05] <t1mp> ahayzen: so you can set leadingActionBar.actions
[22:05] <ahayzen> t1mp, but where will the header be? say i have a random Rectangle inside something...does that mean the header contents will appear inside that rectangle? or up on the tab bar ?
[22:06] <ahayzen> ah so i would set numberOfSlots to 2 for my case and then map the left side to the first slot and the right side to the second slot ?
[22:06] <t1mp> ahayzen: so the Header will by default attach to the top of its parent.
[22:06] <t1mp> ahayzen: so if you have Item { Rectangle { Header { } } }, it is inside the Rectangle
[22:06] <ahayzen> ok
[22:06] <t1mp> ahayzen: if you want it aligned with the Item, you do Item { Header { }; Rectangle { } }
[22:07] <t1mp> ahayzen: there will be two ActionBars: One on the left for the back-action or navigation/tabs overflow panel, and the other one on the right side with the page actions
[22:08] <t1mp> ahayzen: currently the one on the left gets 1 slot, the one on the right 3 slots (but the one on the right will become adaptive to directly show more actions when there is more space)
[22:08] <ahayzen> ah i see, so i would put the header actions of the right sidebar inside/top of that and not try and put them into the main tab/title area?
[22:09]  * ahayzen thinks the designs are probably lagging a bit
[22:10] <t1mp> I don't think I understand what you are asking
[22:10] <t1mp> so,
[22:11] <t1mp> on the left side in the header there is one slot. It can have a back button, or an overflow button that opens the tabs panel
[22:11] <t1mp> then, in the middle, there is the title
[22:11] <nik90> I think I just got what ahayzen was saying
[22:11] <t1mp> and on the right side there are multiple slots for actions
[22:11] <nik90> t1mp: take a look at this https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3XynHVKfrvMejVpQVhUd1J3ZWM/edit
[22:12] <ahayzen> i've probably not explained it well and confused Tim :-)
[22:12] <nik90> ahayzen wants to possibly show actions in the right side when the user long-presses the play-queue to multiselect sutff
[22:12] <nik90> but since the sidebar does not have a header component, he intends/wants to use the header component of the main page
[22:12] <nik90> (hope I understood him right ;)
[22:12] <ahayzen> yup sortof
[22:13] <ahayzen> i wanted to then be able to have the header actions from the left side also in the top bar
[22:13] <ahayzen> but on the left side, like the AdaptivePageLayout does
[22:14] <t1mp> nik90: so in those designs I would say you add a main Header component that just sets the title, and has trailingActionBar.actions = [Action { iconName: "search" }]
[22:14] <t1mp> err
[22:14] <ahayzen> its effectively https://developer.ubuntu.com/static/devportal_uploaded/5f519c74-5718-474e-9196-eea21644bd4a-uploads/zinnia/100gu-right.png
[22:14] <ahayzen> i want the root page to be the main tabs/stack part with its own header actions
[22:14] <t1mp> trailingActions.actions: selectionMode ? [ selectAllAction, selectNoneAction, deleteAction ] : [ searchAction ]
[22:14] <ahayzen> and the second column to always be the now playing/queue page with its own header actions
[22:14] <t1mp> something like that^?
[22:15] <ahayzen> t1mp, but what happens if you do multiselect mode on the left *and* the right
[22:15] <ahayzen> then its confusing to the user which listview the actions are performing on
[22:15] <t1mp> ohh
[22:15] <t1mp> right
[22:15] <ahayzen> so i wanted to be able to have multiple sets
[22:15] <ahayzen> as the AdaptivePageLayout does
[22:15] <t1mp> so you can have multiselect in each of the columns, but you have only one header?
[22:15] <t1mp> that is indeed confusing
[22:15] <t1mp> maybe you should have two (sub)headers?
[22:16] <t1mp> like in https://developer.ubuntu.com/static/devportal_uploaded/5f519c74-5718-474e-9196-eea21644bd4a-uploads/zinnia/100gu-right.png
[22:16] <ahayzen> yeah i mean have two headers
[22:16] <nik90> that would be very confusing to the user having two multiselected states
[22:16] <ahayzen> exactly like that
[22:16] <t1mp> there each (sub)header has its own set of actions to show on the right side
[22:16] <ahayzen> but the problem i have with the adaptivepagelayout is the right side (second column) changes when you push things to the left sides stack
[22:17] <ahayzen> i need the right sides page to always be the same whatever you have done to the left side
[22:18] <t1mp> yes, I'm thinking that too
[22:18] <t1mp> so what's on the right is not inside a AdaptivePageLayout
[22:18] <t1mp> just your own Item, with a PageHeader inside. So it will have its own actions
[22:18] <ahayzen> ok and that should work?
[22:19] <t1mp> yes, but I still need to finish the PageHeader component :)
[22:19] <ahayzen> hehe
[22:19] <t1mp> and I don't know what will happen when you resize the window. When you switch to a phone layout will you show what was in the right column or the left column?
[22:20] <ahayzen> we hide the right side and show a toolbar thing which allows you to push the now playing to the left sides stack
[22:20] <t1mp> for the AdaptivePageLayout we automated that for the basic case where the root page is always on the left and you navigate deeper by opening new pages on the right
[22:20] <ahayzen> so basically we would just hide that Item and make the adaptivepagelayout full width
[22:21] <t1mp> yeah, that's possible
[22:21] <ahayzen> yeah i could see us having 3 sections on really big displays .. like Album | Songs | Now playing/queue
[22:21] <ahayzen> awesome sounds like we've found a solution :-)
[22:21] <t1mp> we had a proposed version of the API where instead of AdaptivePageLayout was instead an AdaptivePageView that replaces the MainView, but we changed it to AdaptivePageLayout that you have to anchor yourself (inside the MainView) to allow for these cases :)
[22:22] <ahayzen> :-)
[22:22] <nik90> smart
[22:22] <t1mp> nik90: yeah, I already had the AdaptivePageView fully implemented when we decided to change it ;)
[22:24] <nik90> woops ;)
[22:24] <ahayzen> t1mp, is there a WIP branch for the PageHeader stuff that we can develop against or is it not at that stage yet ?
[22:26] <t1mp> ahayzen: no, it is still too early
[22:26] <ahayzen> cool
[22:26] <t1mp> ahayzen: the Header branch is here https://code.launchpad.net/~tpeeters/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/header3 but that Header will be empty
[22:27] <ahayzen> hah :-)
[22:27] <t1mp> I'll get back to that as soon as I finish with this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1488922
[22:28] <t1mp> wow, I didn't realize it is so late. I better go to sleep :)
[22:28] <ahayzen> t1mp, thanks for your advice :-)
[22:29] <t1mp> thanks for the feedback :) it is good to think of the use cases. I'll let you know when I have a branch for PageHeader so you can try it
[22:30] <ahayzen> awesome thanks
[22:31]  * t1mp off. Good night all.
[22:32] <ahayzen> night o/
[22:38] <ahoneybun> ahayzen:
[22:39] <ahayzen> ahoneybun,
[22:40] <ahoneybun> I'm 65 downloads away from 3000
[22:40] <ahoneybun> \o/
[22:40] <ahoneybun> holy crap
[22:40] <ahayzen> jezzz \o/ well done
[22:40] <ahoneybun> I know it's crazy
[22:41]  * ahoneybun really needs to do something lol
[22:41] <ahoneybun> we should have a app with Unity 8 docs
[22:42] <ahayzen> is there an app for the docs themselves? https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/
[22:42] <ahayzen> or are you just expected to use the webbrowser
[22:42] <ahoneybun> no clue
[22:42] <zsombi_> ahayzen: nik90: just to make it clear, we are not going to freeze 1.3 in 15.10 release
[22:43] <zsombi_> ahayzen: nik90: this is on your concern whether certain components will land in 1.3 or not
[22:43] <ahayzen> zsombi_, will it freeze after a framework is bumped ? or will there be multiple frameworks to bind to ?
[22:43] <zsombi_> ahayzen: the framework bump will not freeze, but introduce it officially for you. It will be a development framework
[22:44] <nik90> ah okay, it will be ubuntu-sdk-15.10-dev1 and  so on..
[22:44] <ahayzen> ok so it could potentially break people who do not update ? or will there be multiple development frameworks to prevent that ?
[22:44] <zsombi_> ahayzen: the API is more or less stable, components are stable as always (as stable they can be in certain situations ;P)
[22:45] <zsombi_> ahayzen: most likely each framework iteration will contain more and more, but shoudl never break
[22:45] <ahayzen> but eg if a new component is added, then the framework would need to be bumped otherwise folks could end up with an app trying to use a component that doesn't exist
[22:45] <ahayzen> cool
[22:45] <ahoneybun> ahayzen: all those downloads and like 5 reviews....
[22:45] <zsombi_> ahayzen: yes, it will be
[22:45] <ahayzen> zsombi_, awesome thanks
[22:45] <zsombi_> ahayzen: ;) yw
[22:45] <nik90> zsombi_: out of curiosity, when can we expect 1.3 to become a stable API?
[22:46] <nik90> just wondering when to make that transition to 1.3 for the clock-app.
[22:46] <zsombi_> nik90: ufn we are keeping it, but we will announce it like 1-2 months earlier
[22:46] <nik90> I suppose if I use the development framework, I will be shielded from any breakage (if any), but just wondering if it is wise to use a development API.
[22:46] <ahayzen> ahoneybun, hopefully that is because people like your app and have no issues with it :-) (look at the music-app reviews lol seems to flip from 1/2 to 4/5 stars as media-hub/mediascanner broke and were fixed or we broke and were fixed aha)
[22:47] <ahoneybun> perhaps
[22:47] <zsombi_> nik90: I also hope that at some pount the frameworks will work as they should, so you cannot install a 15.10-dev FW targetted app on 15.04 :)
[22:47] <nik90> zsombi_: true, but we are at a unique point in time where phone will not switch to 15.10 for another year
[22:48] <nik90> so it will be an exception where we ship development frameworks in 15.04 still.
[22:48] <ahayzen> zsombi_, so these development frameworks will they be on stable phones, eg OTA7 ? or only -proposed ?
[22:49] <zsombi_> ahayzen: the stable OTA-x releases are always containing a stable shapshot of 1.3. They were there since day0 of OTA... :)
[22:51] <zsombi_> nik90: true, so once we see that we've released everything we planned to 1.3 and convergence, we will call it a release and go to the next version
[22:51] <nik90> ack. makes sense
[22:51] <zsombi_> nik90: I cannot say when, but might be that we are going to open 1.4 earlier, or perhaps we will keep 1.3 as long as we need and plan for 2.0, to introduce some more major changes
[22:52] <nik90> ok
[22:52] <ahayzen> cool thanks
[22:53] <nik90> zsombi_: btw, I noticed mtp's comments about not using exclusive grouping properties on checkboxes. Instead radio buttons are the way to go.
[22:53]  * nik90 hopes 2.0 brings radio buttons
[22:53] <zsombi_> ahayzen: nik90: so, fo rnow, what you can see is a slightly speeded up MainView, some shots of the new header, Sections, ActionBar, AdaptivePageLayout, which is the most powerful animal in the garden nowadays after teh Condiltional layouts ;)
[22:54] <ahayzen> :-)
[22:54] <zsombi_> nik90: I did not see that yet, but even if the radio button will be the choice, an ExclusiveGroup component will be needed to control thoise :)
[22:54] <ahayzen> too much fun stuff to play with :-)
[22:54] <nik90> zsombi_: Ubuntu.Layouts is THE shit! More powerful than adaptivepagelayouts ;)
[22:55] <zsombi_> nik90: and after all a difference between a checkbox and a radio button is the style ;)
[22:55] <nik90> zsombi_: indeed, they will be different only visually and yet affect the user's perspective. I guess that doesn't change things code-wise for you in terms of implementation.
[22:55] <zsombi_> nik90: indeed, but AdaptivePageLayotu is specially made to support columns based page viewing, not rearranging the complete UI :)
[22:56] <zsombi_> nik90: so it's kind of a subset of Ubuntu.Layouts
[22:56] <nik90> true
[22:57] <zsombi_> it serves a special purpose, whereas Ubuntu.Layouts is a generic driver
[22:58] <zsombi_> nik90: ahayzen: and hey, we will have a new palette!!! finally some proper semantic color values there! normal, focused, hovered and disabled color values!!!
[22:58] <ahayzen> \o/
[22:59] <zsombi_> and menus!
[23:00] <nik90> zsombi_: we have a palette already don't we like theme.normal.selected and so on?
[23:00] <nik90> menus woohoo!
[23:00] <nik90> bring on that convergence
[23:00] <nik90> zsombi_: any cool design screenshots to share about how menus look with ubuntu-touch styling?
[23:01] <zsombi_> nik90: yes, but the coloring is not enough for what we need, so we need two more value sets, to properly handle the hovered and disabled states
[23:01] <nik90> ah yes
[23:01] <zsombi_> nik90: sometimes we use lighter, or darker coloring for these purposes, however that is not configurable enough... now it will be
[23:02] <zsombi_> nik90: so the Palette in 1.3 may look slightly different from 1.2 and below
[23:02] <zsombi_> nik90: we don't have yet screenshots, but we will blog about them as soon as we get them ;)
[23:02] <nik90> wow apps updating from 1.2 to 1.3 or even 1.1 to 1.3 (like Unity8) are going to get more customizable and powerful in how they want their user-experience to be.
[23:03] <nik90> I'm excited!!
[23:03] <ahayzen> same :-)
[23:03] <zsombi_> nik90: but first, OTA7 will have the additional and complete AdaptivePageLayout API
[23:03] <nik90> I am curious as to which core-app will use it first.
[23:03] <ahayzen> haha the race is on! lol
[23:04] <zsombi_> meaning column configurations for infinite amount cof columns, conditional activation of those and column resizing
[23:04] <zsombi_> HAHA, I live it to you guys :D
[23:04] <nik90> :D
[23:05] <ahayzen> the race is more, who can get their solution past QA first :-)
[23:05] <zsombi_> nik90: ahayzen: so, once you have that, we are curious to see your comments and needs from that component
[23:06] <sverzegnassi> yay! got the flexible space header working! \o/
[23:06] <zsombi_> and now, if you guys don't mind, I'll turn meself off, and go to sleep a bit :)
[23:07] <ahayzen> night o/ and thanks for the info
[23:07] <zsombi_> thx and yw, and as said, we will blog about these, one by one as they become alive
[23:08] <nik90> zsombi_: gnite /o