[00:30] <perpe> Hola
[00:34] <perpe> Ciao
[00:42] <daftykins> mmmk
[02:42] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[02:51] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: HiYa; Looks like it is going to get off the wall. and it is not even a Friday .
[02:51] <lotuspsychje> yayy
[03:19] <daftykins> any of you folks got a 14.04.3 box with perl 5.18.2-2 installed?
[03:19] <daftykins> 64-bit
[03:23] <lotuspsychje> i got latest trusty 64bit but no perl
[03:24] <daftykins> got this guy in a Kodi channel whose apt-get upgrade is spitting all kinds of issues with the files in the perl folder
[03:24] <daftykins> http://pastebin.com/edfMbpvS
[03:25] <daftykins> i supplied my 32-bit ones tar'd up but it doesn't seem to work
[03:27] <lotuspsychje> !info perl trusty
[03:28] <lotuspsychje> wowo what a list of errors on perl
[03:28] <daftykins> mmhmm
[03:28] <daftykins> proper funky
[03:29] <lotuspsychje> maybe its because of the hold back packages?
[03:29] <daftykins> i feel like it won't function to upgrade even if instructed to update those, though
[03:32] <daftykins> ah apparently a softlink in the folder stopped the untar from working or something, it's going ahead now
[03:32] <lotuspsychje> yayy
[03:33] <daftykins> nothing like a good file swap
[03:33] <lotuspsychje> :p
[05:21] <daftykins> DJ idiotface would be a better nick
[05:21] <daftykins> *sigh*
[05:28] <lotuspsychje> lol
[05:29] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: Welcome to #ubuntu-discuss. This channel is publicly logged :p
[06:12]  * lotuspsychje wonders why the discussion channel gets logged
[07:06] <lordievader> Good morning.
[07:22] <lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
[07:22] <lordievader> o/
[07:30] <Bashing-om> I going vertical for a while. See yall tomorrow my afternoon .
[07:49] <FiZaZue> good morning
[07:53] <lotuspsychje> hi FiZaZue
[16:31]  * daftykins checks TJ- 's basement
[16:32] <TJ-> best to check the grain store :)
[16:33] <daftykins> didn't realise you were up on the mainland thar
[16:35] <TJ-> ooooaaar :)
[16:36] <daftykins> ^_^
[16:36]  * daftykins glances up from the Channel Islands
[16:38] <TJ-> reminded me of Mark Steele in St Anne, recently
[16:38] <daftykins> Alderney folk?
[16:39] <TJ-> BBC Radio 4 Mark Steele in Town, was a classic
[17:53] <lotuspsychje> evening to all
[17:53] <pauljw> hi
[17:53] <lotuspsychje> hi pauljw and daftykins
[17:54] <daftykins> \o
[18:05]  * lotuspsychje_ hates connections drops
[18:06] <daftykins> :>
[18:07] <lotuspsychje> isp acting weird today
[18:08] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hi9psnk5ba26jol/IMG_20150826_175248.jpg?dl=0
[18:08] <daftykins> good one on the local paper today
[18:10] <lotuspsychje> scary leads lol
[18:10] <daftykins> :D
[18:10] <daftykins> "take them away from me!"
[18:11] <lotuspsychje> there's a hacker inside my tv
[18:11] <lotuspsychje> well i like paranoid users for sure, because their most close to reality
[18:12] <lotuspsychje> so many tv's and satelites get sploited over eth
[18:12] <daftykins> satellites? o0
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: you heard about those dreamboxes satelites?
[18:13] <daftykins> nope
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: linux based and connected to eth 24/7
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: they all use default l:p over remote satelite connect
[18:13] <daftykins> i don't even know what kind of devices you mean though
[18:14] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: you know a sattelite right, to watch tv
[18:14] <daftykins> so set top boxes?
[18:14] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: dreamboxes are used to share cards and watch satelite tv and connected to internet also
[18:15] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: http://ne.anuncioo.com/viewpaphoto-276379-dreambox-satelite-receiver
[18:16] <daftykins> sounds naughty?
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah you can remotely watch the pink channels on someones box :p
[18:17] <daftykins> heh
[18:17] <daftykins> i dunno i don't use any broadcast TV
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> just to make my point, smart devices connected to the web, are bad idea
[18:19] <daftykins> i don't believe on living in fear with tech
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> because you have nothing to hide?
[18:23] <daftykins> life just needs to go on
[18:23] <daftykins> don't get me wrong, i explicitly avoided buying a smart TV with a webcam built in :D
[18:23] <daftykins> or silly gimmicks like voice control
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> or smell control
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> movies with odor spraying
[18:24] <daftykins> XD
[18:26] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: good evening mate x :p
[18:26] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: good evening :p
[18:26] <daftykins> aww you got a kiss on your greeting, what favouritism!
[18:26] <daftykins> ;)
[18:27] <EriC^^> with tongue too
[18:27] <lotuspsychje> thats usual over-seas, dont laugh :p
[18:27] <lotuspsychje> french guys also kiss 3 x to each other
[18:27] <EriC^^> lol
[18:28] <lotuspsychje> you arent modern daftykins :p
[18:28] <EriC^^> same here, usually people greet like that
[18:28] <lotuspsychje> you see
[18:28] <daftykins> wat
[18:28] <lotuspsychje> hehe
[18:28] <daftykins> EriC^^: i thought you were in the US? :)
[18:28] <EriC^^> (we were occupied by france for a long time though)
[18:28] <lotuspsychje> think again
[18:29] <EriC^^> nah, Lebanon, i was born in the US :)
[18:29] <lotuspsychje> belgian waffles here
[18:29] <daftykins> ah ok
[18:30] <daftykins> still shopping for TVs for a client
[18:30] <daftykins> tum te tum
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: what your gonna do?
[18:32] <daftykins> i'm thinking avoid curved, avoid 4K - just pick some cheap 1080p things
[18:32] <daftykins> he's only after a 40" and a 50" for his Spain flat
[18:32] <daftykins> :>
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> go for samsung
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> best quality ever
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> i have ue 8000 samsung 40"
[18:32] <EriC^^> better than LG?
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> yes EriC^^
[18:33] <EriC^^> i want to get one for the living room soon
[18:33] <daftykins> i haven't seen any of the WebOS running LGs
[18:33] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: if you put a hd 1080p on the samsung you will see major difference
[18:33] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: got a friend who mis-bought a big 60" LG and came home and his 1080p got blurry
[18:33] <daftykins> i was looking at samsungs since i already own a 55" 6800, also got the 40" model on this guys boat
[18:34] <daftykins> i'm wondering what we'd really sacrifice if i picked a 2014 model, hrmm
[18:34] <lotuspsychje> nothing can beat samsungs quality
[18:35] <daftykins> i'm not sure on that
[18:35] <daftykins> but i'm not hugely fussed on shopping elsewhere :>
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> im 100% sure daftykins
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> you cant see quality in the store itself
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> you need to bring own usb with 1080p mkv to the store
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> and test yourself
[18:36] <daftykins> meh
[18:37] <daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-40J5510-Smart-1080p-Model/dp/B00VBUYHZM/
[18:37] <daftykins> that's a tempting choice for a 2015 model
[18:37] <lotuspsychje> good price for sure
[18:38] <daftykins> heh take the 20% tax off that for us too ;)
[18:38] <lotuspsychje> nice
[18:38] <daftykins> one benefit to not being under the UK government
[18:38] <lotuspsychje> i have an older model, but expensive one
[18:38] <lotuspsychje> still have an old smart tv
[18:38] <lotuspsychje> the newer smart tv is much better
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> 2015 version will have it
[18:39] <daftykins> it's going down to Spain anyway so anything would have to be VPN'd to provide British services
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> the higher hertz, the better quality of course
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> i got 800 cmr
[18:42] <daftykins> mmm there's a fair element of marketing to that
[18:42] <daftykins> since i put it into movie mode which cuts that bit off - but i think mines still 200Hz after :)
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> i also use mede8er media hd on it
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> and rocknrolls
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> worlds best media hd
[18:44] <daftykins> o0
[18:44] <daftykins> an app, or?
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> no, media harddisk
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> plays all codecs
[18:44] <daftykins> meh ;)
[18:44] <daftykins> i like my Kodi HTPC
[18:45] <lotuspsychje> dont know that1
[18:45] <daftykins> used to be called XBMC
[18:45] <lotuspsychje> ah
[18:46] <lotuspsychje> nite nite all
[21:18] <daftykins> EriC^^: heh i wonder if you can plant wim's on install media of a vanilla disk and try as-is, guess it wouldn't work :)
[21:18] <EriC^^> i was wondering if he could use ubuntu to extract it
[21:19] <EriC^^> but with windows he can use dism to extract it
[21:19] <daftykins> no idea, i know on a Windows machine you need some SDK gubbins to do it?
[21:19] <daftykins> mmm never tried
[21:19] <EriC^^> i just remembered it uses indexes though, like dism /extract /index:4 or so so i don't think it's that straight forward to extract it with ubuntu
[21:20] <EriC^^> if he can get a command prompt that has dism it can work
[21:20] <daftykins> the way this guy pasted that it's "onekey recovery" - are we saying boot config has been hosed so a physical button on this acer laptop won't boot straight into it?
[21:21] <EriC^^> i had a recovery usb thing from windows, it's like 200mb you put on a fat32 and it boots a recovery with a command prompt and dism diskpart etc. quite handy
[21:21] <daftykins> ah yeah
[21:21] <daftykins> i suspect this is one of those machines that can boot directly from powered off with a button though
[21:21] <EriC^^> i dunno i think when the partitions change the recovery gets all fussy about booting and extracting stuff
[21:22] <EriC^^> i could boot mine but not extract after i installed ubuntu and it toasted windows by mistake
[21:22] <EriC^^> ah
[21:22] <daftykins> ah ok
[21:22] <daftykins> probably has some super basic non-UUID method of referring to partitions
[21:24] <EriC^^> yeah
[21:25] <daftykins> weird though, we were told this guys client updated to 10 - so if he wants 8 back, reverting should be easy
[21:25] <daftykins> though i've no clue how to do it 'cause i'd never want to go back / use an upgrade :D
[21:25] <EriC^^> hmm yeah
[21:25] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: From oldfred - ubuntuforums- " If you have an Acer and in UEFI mode must enable "trust" for Ubuntu/grub's efi boot files. You have to set supervisory password "
[21:26] <EriC^^> yeah daftykins pointed that out earlier
[21:26] <EriC^^> wouldn't let him do ls in grub even
[21:27] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Yuk ! Partition table hammered ?
[21:27] <EriC^^> no i think he upgraded windows and it's not booting and he wants win8 back
[21:28] <daftykins> and is going about it ass-backwards, as is tradition for #ubuntu
[21:28] <EriC^^> haha:D
[21:41] <OerHeks> err unremovable uefi too?
[21:44] <EriC^^> hmm that gives me an idea..
[21:46] <daftykins> ruh roh
[21:46] <daftykins> :D
[21:46] <daftykins> wow i can't believe that permissions change worked for the flash drive mount
[21:47] <daftykins> how does that even happen - udisks mount without group perms
[21:47] <EriC^^> ah i learned something about that today
[21:47] <EriC^^> if it's an ext partition if you mount it from nautilus it mounts as the root file system's permissions
[21:48] <daftykins> wow even when a user invokes it?
[21:48] <EriC^^> i didn't even know a fs had a root dir with permissions, i thought it just used the mountpoint's permissions, TJ- pointed that out
[21:48] <EriC^^> yeah
[21:49] <daftykins> ah the fun i miss out on from not even using desktop 8D
[21:49] <EriC^^> hehe
[21:53] <daftykins> wb TJ-
[21:55] <TJ-> Thanks... stand well back, I'm spitting right now, fed up with hitting pathetic bug after bug on 14.04 this evening!
[22:02] <Bashing-om> But, TJ- I have long noted that you are a BUG magnet !
[22:02] <daftykins> guys i think we ought to stop suggesting people go to ##hardware
[22:02] <TJ-> Grrrrrr
[22:02] <daftykins> i just had a guy screaming at me that you can't dd an ISO
[22:02] <daftykins> *facepalm*
[22:02] <TJ-> These are stupid bugs though
[22:04] <TJ-> Like in virt-manager (the GUI for libvirt) if you attach a Host USB device to the Guest it has you select the device by its (unique) position on the USB bus (1 device = 1 position) *but* it saves the config to libvirt by the device's Vendor:Product ID ... so when there are multiple identical devices attached the Guest then fails to start since it doesn't know which one to use! I mean, that is under-graduate level facepalm failure!
[22:05] <daftykins> =
[22:05] <daftykins> =]
[22:06] <TJ-> I hit this because I was creating encrypted USB 16GiB images via the installer, and have a couple of identical Flash USB mass storage devices attached
[22:10] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Yeah, that one drives me up the wall sometimes also / 3 internal hard drives all with same same nomenclature. Real pain sometimes to know what I am doing . ( just about got the bus IDs memorized).
[22:10] <TJ-> The other bug I hit is in the xorg-xserver. I'm temporarily not using my primary 6-monitor 3xGPU config, just using the laptop GPU with a HDMI screen connected in portrait mode. However, the xserver miscalculates the screen DPI to be 245x93 across the 2 1920x1200 (1920x1200 + 1200x1920) displays because although it rotates the pixel dimensions it doesn't rotate the physical millimetre dimensions, but it uses those to calculate DPI!
[22:11] <TJ-> The HDMI monitor is physically large compared to the laptop LVDS, so I've got massive text on the portrait monitor and miniscule text on the smaller laptop screen, grrr
[22:13] <TJ-> It really gets my goat when so-called developers throw code out without actually thinking about how it works, or what it will actually do. I'd fire dev's of mine  if they carried on like that.
[22:14] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Old cliche, if the developers had to work on what they produced, things would be done diffeent .
[22:15] <TJ-> It reminds me of another KDE bug I found when I first started using multiple X screens. When locking the screenlock only appears on the primary X screen, anything on the other X screens continues to be displayed. I wrote a patch for it which works, but the KDE dev's NAKed it. In discussions it turns out that the core devs that work on multi-monitor code don't actually have or use multi-monitor configs and don't test on such either!
[22:15] <TJ-> Bashing-om: Yeah, so true. Dog-food and all that.
[22:17] <Bashing-om> Then there are those like you, who do know what thy are doing and why, that make the patches that make it work . :)
[22:18] <TJ-> It's got to the point that I could spend my entire time just hunting down and fixing bugs in the packages we use, and still be behind the times. I'm afraid F/OSS is starting to trip over its own feet in this regard. 10 years ago you could actually get something useful done between fixing other people's mistakes :)
[22:19] <TJ-> It actually disappoints me, since when I tackle something I want to be professional and deliver a decent solution. This slip-shod code depresses me greatly.
[22:20] <Bashing-om>  that I have complete empathy. System evolving faster than I can keep up with . What I think I know was just a thought as it no longer applies .
[22:22] <TJ-> Funny thing.. I'm trying to fix the virt-manager issue right now as we chat. I'm using the CLI 'virsh' interface to libvirt to be able to gather the correct info to use "virsh edit <domain>" to manually edit the XML. There are guides on gathering the USB device info using virsh. However, the info it outputs doesn't include one of the vital address values required, the device number, in order to do that! So I'm wasting 1/2 hour so far trying to figure out h
[22:22] <TJ-> ow to get that info from it!
[22:22] <TJ-> Yeah, we're running too fast just to keep up now.
[22:23] <TJ-> I'm expecting I'll be switching away from Ubuntu soonish; the way Canonical is behaving and the directions it's taking without true community input has killed the appeal it once had.
[22:24] <TJ-> The issue over Copyrights to binary package (re)distribution for example, the fuss and time over clarity that saw Jonathan Riddell 'booted' from the Kubuntu Council, the whole Snappy packaging thing
[22:28] <Bashing-om> TJ-: I grant you that the future is bleak for us ole die hards. I came to ubuntu from other linux distros due to my comfort level/ Backthen ubunbtu wss initab, and verry readable and inderstandable. Back then ubuntu worked real well for my use case and I did devotes some time learning it. Now there is too much for any one person to know -> specialization .. and A does not relate well with C anymore .
[22:30] <daftykins> two TVs bought \o/
[22:33] <TJ-> Yes, there's that too. The Dictator obviously wants to create in Canonical another Thawte after all the bank-rolling he's done, but that is the crux of the issue for Ubuntu. He got it going with money + a vision for Debian devs and created the illusion of Ubuntu under 'community' direction... but if that direction didn't fit with his vision it has been ignored and changes forced. I think it affected me earlier than most. I used to be part of the "Ubuntu Ke
[22:33] <TJ-> rnel Team" which was then a handful of people all but me paid by Canonical. Then, without warning or announcement, it suddenly became the "Canonical Kernel Team" and the rest of us were frozen out, not party to team plans, etc.
[22:37] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Yeah ; Situations such as that makes one think real hard how he fits into the "Big Picture" . The little I have messed about with DSL and Tiny Core sure makes me consider them as a next move .
[22:37]  * daftykins facepalms at MrJones
[22:40] <TJ-> I've been thinking about DSL, but one of my major focuses is secure fully encrypted systems, and them being easy to install. I've been working on the debian-installer to add services like encrypted /boot/, detached LUKS headers, plausible deniability with inner containers that are invisible, and so on.
[22:41] <TJ-> I was thinking of contributing to Kubuntu development but since the spat with Jonathan Riddell, its future is far from certain beyond 15.10
[22:41] <daftykins> it's quite embarassing in a way wanting to suggest open source at all given how all of its' development seems full of drama
[22:42] <daftykins> i even feel bad for prefering Firefox now given all the crap going on at Mozilla
[22:42] <daftykins> but don't get me wrong, it's the 'product' that matters obviously
[22:42] <TJ-> daftykins: You get that in any organisation of size though, internal politics in most companies is worse... even though there it is accepted that direction is dictated from 'above'
[22:43] <daftykins> ah, probably my lack of experience with the workplace then
[22:43] <TJ-> I know what you mean... the 'little' issues are often tip-of-the-iceberg kind of indicators
[22:43] <wileee> handfuls of hierarchies, some personal some group
[22:44] <Bashing-om> K; And it is using that product to make it do what you want it to do. Getting real tough to make adjustments .
[22:44] <TJ-> I've done a lot of consulting and been really glad I've never worked for anyone else as an employee; I'd go berzerk at some of the things I've seen :D
[22:44] <daftykins> :)
[22:45] <TJ-> Ha! Only took me 45 minutes to figure out the libvirt-doc XML docs give the wrong info on how to specify a USB device pass-through!
[22:46] <daftykins> :(
[22:46] <daftykins> that's some fine documentation
[22:47] <Bashing-om> TJ-: An Now ya got to read the code, figure out the hooks, and how to make it tell you what you need to know . OH what fun .
[22:47] <TJ-> when these things happens its a good thing I live in the middle of fields... the screams of frustration I let out make the dogs go hide at the bottom of the yard :)
[22:47] <TJ-> It's just such a damned waste of time, all due to some dev's laziness in not keeping the docs up to date
[22:49] <daftykins> XD
[22:49] <daftykins> yeah :/
[22:49] <daftykins> it's a shame i don't do dev, 'cause i enjoy documentation writing
[22:49] <Bashing-om> TJ-: My pet peave ! The docs no longer apply and/or someone did not think enough of me to make up the documentation !
[22:50] <daftykins> come to think of it, i should put some time into updating some of the ones we link to over in #ubuntu
[22:50] <daftykins> it's quite an embarassing state when we link someone and the guides go up to 10.04
[22:51] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Now that would cause some kind of confusion. 10.04 in a 15.10 world .
[22:51] <daftykins> *nod*
[22:52] <TJ-> Bashing-om: I think we could have a bonfire party with all the out-of-date/incorrect docs :)
[22:53] <TJ-> daftykins: I was once thinking of how to do a massive kull of obsolete/wrong/dangerous info in the help/wiki but the task is so immense it'd need every active dev that knows the current score to spend a week on it
[22:53] <daftykins> yeah :(
[22:54] <TJ-> I think we waste huge amounts of time being misled by obsolete docs... that's why when I'm helping people I try to duplicate their issue locally, with a VM or whatever, to ensure the commands I suggest actually do what I expect them to :)
[22:55] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Amen to -do it yourself 1st - . I have become a firm believer .
[22:56] <daftykins> same, though often i'm not on a GUI system to repeat things
[22:56] <daftykins> since i don't run desktop *buntu apart from *rarely* on this old junker laptop downstairs in my lounge :)
[22:56] <TJ-> I find if I don't do that I, and the user, get confused over what to expect. User communication, even with pastebin, lacks a lot compared to being there and using your intuition, gut-feeling from the way the system behaves
[22:57] <TJ-> daftykins: You should try using that ASCII GUI driver for the X server :D
[22:57] <daftykins> XD
[22:57] <daftykins> can't tell if you're teasing
[22:57] <TJ-> Well, it'd be 'fun' :)
[22:58] <TJ-> I doubt you'd get 3D acceleration though :p
[22:58] <daftykins> that's ok, i was that teenager playing with compiz - no sorry, beryl way back ;)
[22:59] <Bashing-om> reminiscence ?
[23:00] <TJ-> When I started programming, there was BASIC and machine-code (no assembler), but I'd have loved to run a GUI in 4KB of RAM :)
[23:00] <daftykins> Bashing-om: more thinking of the fashionable trends :)
[23:01] <daftykins> amusing that we still get kids coming in wanting wobbly windows, cubes and to play counter-strike
[23:01]  * daftykins cringes
[23:01] <OerHeks> 16 kb wobbly rampack
[23:01] <TJ-> OerHeks: oh yeah!
[23:01] <OerHeks> Who remembers Baud?
[23:01] <TJ-> the computer?
[23:02] <daftykins> o/
[23:02] <Bashing-om> I had a machine with 512 KB - at the time a whopping amount, and It was the 1st I am aware of that had a true GUI . Was amazing !
[23:02] <TJ-> my first modem did 110 baud half-duplex
[23:02] <daftykins> though i'm quite young relatively so my dialup era once i was allowed a modem, was quite late on
[23:02] <TJ-> Bashing-om: that is an amazing amount of RAM :D
[23:03] <TJ-> Was that an Amiga or Atari ST?
[23:03] <Bashing-om> At the time .. there was the TI16 !
[23:03] <TJ-> I had a TI99/4A ... along with about 15 other different types of computer
[23:04] <Bashing-om> Oh was the Amiga .. I sure had my share of distain for the Atari .
[23:04] <OerHeks> our friends circle decided on the zx81, and later spectrum
[23:04] <Bashing-om> ^ now that one you sure learned assembly !
[23:05] <TJ-> Anyone remember the Jupiter Ace, which ran Forth?
[23:05] <TJ-> I started with a ZX80 and ZX81
[23:07] <OerHeks> Now i have so many machines, nobody wants them, all duo cores ..
[23:07] <TJ-> back then I think I collected ZX80, ZX81, Spectrum, QL, BBC Micros, Acorn Atom, Jupiter Ace, Oric-1, Atari 520ST, Commodore Vic20, Amigas, Dragon 32 and 64, TI99/4A ... wow the names come flooding back!
[23:08] <TJ-> I know when they were all on and the CRTs running it was like a sweatshop in the office :)
[23:08] <TJ-> oh, Superbrain too, that all-in-one
[23:11] <Bashing-om> Talk about memories. I bought that miga1000 to remote into the work servers. Accomplished that, and along the way i figured out how to remote into my machine, No one had done that before to a PC, used to really blow people away that I had a machine one could do that - though I will admit it would crash sometimes and I never did get it right .
[23:16] <TJ-> It was relatively easy back then to do anything you wanted - hardware was much simpler, usually very well documented too
[23:16] <TJ-> Now it seems to be all about 'protecting our IP'
[23:18] <daftykins> there's you guys talking about the old kit, whilst i download a 1.1GB firmware update for a TV i just ordered for someone
[23:18] <daftykins> what a brave new world of inefficiency ;)
[23:18] <TJ-> well, that's 2 bugs detailed and reported. I'll check back in 4 years someone might have looked at them by then :)
[23:20] <TJ-> daftykins: seriously; it makes me cry when I see that kind of thing. The total lack of awareness of the underlying technology in most devs now is frightening. So many rely on some blackbox framework API with no idea of the underlying consequences of choosing one operation over another
[23:20] <daftykins> *nod*
[23:20] <TJ-> Like this SuperTalent/Asmied controller Option ROM PICe SSD boot hang I'm working with them on.
[23:20] <daftykins> octacore TVs
[23:20] <daftykins> ah yeah, how's that going?
[23:22] <TJ-> I've reverse-engineered the O-ROM almost totally now, so much so I know how it works... I still have to send questions via a 1st-line support agent who relays them to engineers who relay them to Asmedia engineers, who reply back through the chain... 3 times now I've asked a highly technical specific question that demonstrates I probably know their code better than they do, to get the reply "have you tried it in Windows?" ... I just scream, really!
[23:23] <daftykins> >_<
[23:23] <daftykins> good they even reply though i guess, i'd imagine some manufacturers wouldn't even permit that
[23:23] <TJ-> When I get some spare time (hah!) I'm going to patch a few bytes in the O-ROM image to give me feedback as to where it is executing, and iterate that until I hit a place where it has hung the PC, and work backwards from there. The flash is programmable using SPI so it's easy to reprogram it. It doesn't even checksum the flash image, amazingly
[23:24] <daftykins> ouch!
[23:24] <daftykins> guess they never intend to release an update
[23:24] <TJ-> daftykins: That's it, there was a time when if you could see you were dealing with a highly technical customer you'd deal with them on that level, but  organisational politics has since got in the way of engineers talking to engineers
[23:25] <TJ-> It is using an unmodified Asmedia 106X controller BIOS so this is more widespread than the SuperTalent SSD,
[23:26] <TJ-> I think it is hitting because Asmedia asume the BIOS is embedded in a PC system with the controller on the motherboard, and they've never tested it fully when the OROM is self-contained on a hot-pluggable PCIe device
[23:27] <TJ-> What is scary is, with the SSD in a mini-PCIe <> PCIe adapter, plugged into a Gigabyte motherboard, the power supply refuses to power on!
[23:27] <daftykins> :S
[23:28] <TJ-> If I hotplug a moment after the PSU starts, it is fine though :S
[23:32] <Bashing-om> Now where is that O'scope we were talking about the other evening ? Be nice to look at the timing .
[23:32] <TJ-> I've been doing that; nothing obvious
[23:33] <TJ-> But I don't care too much about that - it only went in there to test if it would work someplace else than the laptops
[23:36] <TJ-> I've still got the failed ServerTech 0-U (vertical) CDU master to diagnose/fix too - run out of space to have everything disassembled on the workbench at once :s   I bought another identical pair that were on eBay so I have a known good device
[23:36] <TJ-> daftykins: great oenvpn issue you're diagnosing... making me laugh :D
[23:37] <TJ-> " so essentially, you don't actually have a VPN server you want to connect to?" --- classic
[23:37] <daftykins> :)
[23:37] <daftykins> this is one of my very patient times, they're quite rare
[23:38] <daftykins> this guy definitely saw the acronym and believes 'VPN will solve all my problems'
[23:47] <TJ-> I find that the commercialisation on openvpn.net is causing many users confusion
[23:47] <daftykins> mmm, linking to another site for the service provision is a bit odd
[23:48] <daftykins> i'm a newbie though, i just setup a digitalocean droplet in London the other day and followed their guide for 2048-bit easy-rsa based functionality :)
[23:50] <TJ-> :) that easyrsa tooling is useful
[23:51] <daftykins> i'd like to say i'd normally learn the proper way but on this occasion i was doing one of those rushed proof-of-concept tasks
[23:51] <daftykins> someone i know wants to watch British TV from their Spain holiday home ;)
[23:51] <TJ-> it makes sure you get it correct; which is extremely important with crypto
[23:52] <daftykins> *nod* it does look very complex - quite the longwinded guide too, although maybe only 40 mins from start to finish thanks to VPSs such as digitalocean
[23:52] <daftykins> plus if i repeated it in other countries i could use all kinds of services ;)
[23:54] <TJ-> I like those kind of scripts ... they can be used as an educational tool to show best-practice, so when you have time you can read them and get an idea of the underlying commands and parameters
[23:54] <daftykins> :D