| omegaphoenix | Do you guys usually develop on virtual boxes? | 02:21 |
|---|---|---|
| bluesabre | omegaphoenix: I develop on hardware, test with virtual machines and hardware | 02:22 |
| bluesabre | virtual machines let me test multiple configurations and distros easily (debian, fedora, opensuse, etc) | 02:23 |
| omegaphoenix | Where are the files for development? | 02:25 |
| omegaphoenix | I found the daily build page | 02:25 |
| bluesabre | omegaphoenix: primarily launchpad.net and git.xfce.org | 02:26 |
| bluesabre | flocculant: it worrrrrrks! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXWXF4LffgY&feature=youtu.be | 02:36 |
| bluesabre | night all | 03:01 |
| HoloIRCUser1 | How does Xubuntu development set-up differ from packaging.ubuntu.com/html/getting-set-up.html | 03:45 |
| === HoloIRCUser1 is now known as omegaphoenix | ||
| flocculant | bluesabre: \o/ | 08:48 |
| === flocculant is now known as Guest18045 | ||
| === Guest18045 is now known as flocculant | ||
| flocculant | well I more or less successfully exported panel config to a clean install :) | 12:30 |
| flocculant | knome: ack the "sanest thing to do is to group them by month, then add some indication of the date" | 12:31 |
| knome | :) | 12:31 |
| knome | i'll land that change later today.. | 12:31 |
| knome | flocculant, done | 13:23 |
| === HoloIRCUser1 is now known as omegaphoenix | ||
| === sinewav1 is now known as sinewav | ||
| ochosi | andrzejr: not sure what version of greybird you're using and yeah ofc with a different xfwm4 theme things become inconsistent. sorry you don't like the xfwm4 theme of greybird, i guess you'd have to modify the greybird CSD styling yourself in order to get what you want... | 21:48 |
| andrzejr | ochosi, I've seen your discussion with ofourdan. Couldn't really follow the details, but is there any reason why Greybird couldn't include some xfwm4-specific css definitions coming from another xfwm4 theme? | 21:51 |
| ochosi | well you can do that yourself by modifying the respective portions of css in greybird | 21:52 |
| ochosi | but there is no (unhacky) dynamic way to do that | 21:52 |
| andrzejr | why not? You can dynamically change the theme after all. | 21:52 |
| ochosi | thing is, it's very simple: with CSD you lose the ability to indepedently choose gtk and wm theme | 21:52 |
| ochosi | because it's the same | 21:52 |
| ochosi | also, there is no xfwm4-specific css | 21:53 |
| andrzejr | so far | 21:53 |
| ochosi | xfwm4 has its own theming system (which olivier wants to keep in place) | 21:53 |
| ochosi | so yeah, i guess as long as xfce doesn't go CSD all over, you'll have to live with what we have atm | 21:54 |
| ochosi | the situation even won't change when xfwm4 is ported to gtk3 | 21:54 |
| ochosi | simply because the theming isn't done in CSS and nothing is drawn by Gtk | 21:54 |
| andrzejr | we could add css to all default xfwm themes. I assume the only thing left to do is to include it in a gtk theme. | 21:55 |
| ochosi | that was my suggestion to olivier, but he felt it was too hacky | 21:55 |
| ochosi | there is no easy way to override the current theme with a css portion afaik | 21:55 |
| ochosi | i mean: not within the app but from the outside (e.g. coming from xfsettingsd) | 21:56 |
| andrzejr | we could have a link xfwm4.css or similar pointing to the current theme, | 21:56 |
| ochosi | oh also: if you want to change more than just the wm icons, that css file would be fairly long | 21:57 |
| ochosi | you'd have to theme the whole headerbar and somehow ensure it'd still be consistent with *any given gtk theme* | 21:57 |
| andrzejr | how does xfsettingsd currently change the gtk theme? We could use the same method. | 21:58 |
| ochosi | changes an xsetting afaik | 21:59 |
| ochosi | this one: /Net/ThemeName | 21:59 |
| andrzejr | That's the point. It doesn't have to be consistent with any gtk theme, only with xfwm themes. | 21:59 |
| ochosi | it sure does. headerbars/CSD contains Gtk widgets like buttons, comboboxes, entries etc | 22:00 |
| ochosi | you can't make those look like crap or unreadable with the CSS you're loading | 22:00 |
| ochosi | so yeah, long story short: appearance settings isn't the solution cause it changes an xsetting that Gtk+ listens to and then changes the theme | 22:01 |
| ochosi | maybe it can be done manually too, one would have to read the Gtk+ source code though to know for sure | 22:01 |
| andrzejr | since it is an Xfwm-specific mechanism we could add our own xsettings entry. | 22:01 |
| ochosi | (and yeah, the easy way is putting a file in ~/.config/gtk-3.0) | 22:01 |
| ochosi | anyhoo, the other thing is that i'm not really sure it's worth it... | 22:02 |
| ochosi | it's a lot of hassle and hackiness for dubious outcome | 22:02 |
| ochosi | the ideal situation is that you use a gtk and xfwm4 theme that match | 22:02 |
| andrzejr | The last resort solution is indeed making a new theme. A naive question, would you mind adding more contrast to Greybird's window decorations an widening the borders to >=4px? | 22:04 |
| ochosi | this isn't the kind of change i take lightly tbh | 22:05 |
| ochosi | i haven't heard many complaints about the contrast in a very long time | 22:05 |
| ochosi | (or any to be exact) | 22:06 |
| ochosi | wrt xfwm4 decoration borders, yeah, i've been working on a wider version | 22:06 |
| andrzejr | I know it is in "usability vs prettiness" territory but many users would appreciate such changes, even if as a variant. | 22:06 |
| ochosi | i personally dont like it and i'm not sure why anyone would need it, but sure... :) | 22:06 |
| ochosi | (yeah, yeah, the usual complaint is about resizing windows but there are so many other ways to resize windows...) | 22:06 |
| ochosi | so yeah, the a11y variant is planned but still a few steps away | 22:07 |
| knome | oops, that blew my idle cover :O | 22:07 |
| knome | :P | 22:07 |
| ochosi | i currently just dont have the time to work with it very much | 22:07 |
| ochosi | hehe indeed :p | 22:07 |
| knome | i was just going to step out of the misty closet anyway | 22:08 |
| andrzejr | I agree with this complaint. Resizing the windows is *the* purpose of window borders. Otherwise why include them at all. | 22:08 |
| knome | andrzejr, i don't agree, the purpose of the window borders is to create structure for the data on the screen ;) | 22:08 |
| ochosi | andrzejr: that's ok, then make xfwm4 use the shadow of the window as its resize area (like CSD do) ;) | 22:10 |
| knome | ochosi, i'd like you to check out something | 22:10 |
| knome | ochosi, bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs | 22:10 |
| knome | ochosi, in branch root: make clean style html | 22:10 |
| knome | err | 22:11 |
| knome | ochosi, make startpage html <- should be enough and correct | 22:11 |
| knome | ochosi, then see build/index.html | 22:11 |
| andrzejr | fair point. but afaik that wouldn't work without compositing enabled. | 22:11 |
| knome | andrzejr, of course not, because there is no shadow then | 22:11 |
| knome | but then again you could use another xfwm theme (for example, the greybird a11y version, hopefully in the near future) | 22:12 |
| andrzejr | I hope the a11y version will not go overboard with a11y. There is nothing wrong with Gtk widgets theming, just the wm part. | 22:14 |
| knome | no, it's not supposed to be high contrast | 22:14 |
| knome | ochosi, did you pick that up? :) | 22:15 |
| ochosi | andrzejr: you can try the xfwm4-a11y branch of greybird if you want, but it's still very much WIP | 22:15 |
| knome | andrzejr, and if you have specific wishes/suggestions, at least i don't care if you submit them as issues in github | 22:16 |
| andrzejr | oh, I didn't know you've got something already. | 22:16 |
| knome | something... not a lot | 22:16 |
| andrzejr | well, my wish is to make the CSD fad go away (not just for visual inconsistency, I consider it a massive step back in terms of usability too). But I guess that a WONTFIX. | 22:18 |
| knome | that's not something for greybird anyway | 22:19 |
| andrzejr | sure, just ranting | 22:21 |
| ochosi | :> | 22:21 |
| knome | ;) | 22:21 |
| knome | ochosi, hellooooo? | 22:21 |
| ochosi | knome: i'm pulling... | 22:21 |
| knome | thanks :P | 22:21 |
| ochosi | i'm using my phone with tethering,no interwebs in new flat yet... | 22:22 |
| knome | awwh | 22:22 |
| ochosi | so yeah, that sort of thing takes time | 22:22 |
| ochosi | plus LP is slow | 22:22 |
| knome | i could have pushed stuff in the webs for you then | 22:22 |
| knome | well, pulling the docs branch is always slow | 22:22 |
| knome | when you do it with no previous data | 22:22 |
| knome | i'll race you, let's see if i'm ready first | 22:23 |
| ochosi | ok done | 22:23 |
| knome | aha | 22:23 |
| knome | you win | 22:23 |
| knome | now do: make startpage html | 22:23 |
| knome | and forget my sillyness about style and clean before ;) | 22:24 |
| ochosi | much nicer look than the current docs | 22:24 |
| knome | heh | 22:24 |
| knome | well | 22:24 |
| ochosi | looks more like the website ;) | 22:24 |
| knome | it's a slight refresh | 22:24 |
| knome | yeah, that's the point | 22:24 |
| ochosi | with the shadows and colors | 22:24 |
| knome | also click to the docs | 22:24 |
| knome | should have a similar style | 22:24 |
| knome | so if you're happy with that, then good | 22:25 |
| ochosi | yup, +1 from me | 22:25 |
| knome | just wanted another pair of eyes | 22:25 |
| ochosi | why does the TOC have to have that dark bar on the left? | 22:25 |
| knome | if you go to a chapter page, you'll notice why | 22:26 |
| knome | (it would mix in too easily with the content) | 22:26 |
| ochosi | and why is it that hyperlinks are blue *and* underlined? | 22:26 |
| knome | and keeping it on the frontpage as well makes stuff consistent | 22:26 |
| ochosi | right | 22:26 |
| knome | i think just changing the color is meh with short paragraphs | 22:27 |
| knome | eg, see http://docs.xubuntu.org/1410/guide-default-apps.html#default-graphics | 22:27 |
| knome | it would look weird with no underlines | 22:27 |
| knome | and it's added clarity | 22:27 |
| knome | which is never bad in a documentation imo | 22:27 |
| knome | there are also other blue things, eg. http://docs.xubuntu.org/1410/media-apps.html#media-music-listen | 22:28 |
| knome | sure, they are different blues, but if people see elliptic circles.. | 22:28 |
| knome | O;) | 22:28 |
| ochosi | hah | 22:29 |
| ochosi | sad excuses! | 22:29 |
| knome | :D | 22:29 |
| ochosi | :D | 22:29 |
| knome | no, i stand by the style | 22:29 |
| knome | i think it's good | 22:29 |
| knome | it works well with the content we have there | 22:29 |
| ochosi | anyway, nice refresh | 22:29 |
| knome | maybe we should add the underlines for the website as well ;) | 22:29 |
| knome | (no, not really, that's a different beast) | 22:30 |
| knome | and thanks | 22:30 |
| ochosi | the home icon is a bit awkward though tbh, why is it not blue like the navigation arrows? | 22:30 |
| * ochosi feels nitpicky | 22:31 | |
| knome | because != https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ugkg9RePc | 22:31 |
| ochosi | ouch | 22:33 |
| ochosi | good i have my laptop muted by default | 22:33 |
| knome | so, no blue house and no blue window | 22:33 |
| knome | just fifty shades of grey | 22:33 |
| knome | :P | 22:33 |
| ochosi | :D | 22:33 |
| ochosi | anyhoo, gotta get some sleep | 22:34 |
| knome | well, the real answer: | 22:34 |
| knome | i tried that when i did those icons, and it looked weird with all blue | 22:34 |
| knome | and nighty :) | 22:34 |
| ochosi | that's ok :) | 22:34 |
| knome | (and good luck with the "sleep" part) | 22:34 |
| ochosi | heh, thanks | 22:34 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!