/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/09/01/#juju-dev.txt

mupBug #1490789 opened: [juju authorised-keys add] cannot specify a key file <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490789>01:47
wallyworldthumper: what's you fav flag design?02:20
* thumper looks for a copy02:21
anastasiamacwallyworld: with stripes?...02:21
wallyworldthey've narrowed down to 402:21
thumperhttp://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71624100/live-final-four-nz-flag-designs-unveiled02:21
thumpertop left02:21
thumperblack and blue02:21
thumpersecond favourit is bottom right02:21
wallyworldmee too02:21
thumperred and blue02:22
wallyworldi would have preferred soutern cross on all back and white02:22
mwhudsonobviously they should have chosen http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2015/05/15/102682735-3127-flag.530x298.png?v=143169925402:22
wallyworldi wish we would change ours :-(02:22
thumpersomeone did a variant of the top left with the black and blue inverted02:22
thumpermwhudson: :)02:23
mwhudsonor nyan kiwi02:23
mwhudsonhttps://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/281102:23
anastasiamaci like monochromatic fern02:23
thumpermwhudson: I actually like the new design (top left one)02:23
mwhudsonthumper: it's ok i guess02:23
mwhudsonnot a subject i am really capable of getting excited over :-)02:23
mwhudsoni don't like the way the fern is drawn i think, although i'm not sure what is wrong02:24
mwhudsontoo chunky maybe02:24
thumperpersonally I'm in favour of changing the flag, but I believe that the government is trying to hide a lot of shit by saying, "hey look over there, new flag"02:24
mwhudsonyeah definitly02:24
mwhudsonwallyworld: your country's politics is pretty surreal at the moment02:25
wallyworldindeed :-(02:25
wallyworldnz has their shit together on so many things02:25
wallyworldwe are a basket case02:25
thumperpfft02:26
thumperI don't follow ozzie politics much02:27
thumperbut I'm not sure I'd say NZ has their shit together02:27
thumperalthough to be honest02:27
thumperpretty much any country I look at more than superficailly seems screwed in some way02:27
thumperwhy does humanity suck so much?02:27
anastasiamacthumper: careful - u r aproaching wisdom02:27
anastasiamac*pp02:28
thumperI'll go back to being superficial02:28
davechen1ythumper: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2474/05:08
davechen1ygot all the kinks out of it now05:08
thumperdavechen1y: lgtm, if you mark the last issue resolved, then you have the shipit from axw05:18
* thumper heads off to code craft05:18
davechen1yta05:18
davechen1yfixed05:18
wallyworldaxw: school pickupt ime, if you get a chance maybe you could look at https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/3168 for me? otherwise i'll ping one of the emerald guys later06:02
axwwallyworld: sure06:02
wallyworldty, i'll look at yours when i get back06:02
wallyworldjam: hiya, do you think the resources spec is ready to distribute more widely? maybe take another look and get back to me?07:47
axwwallyworld: if you have time, would you mind reviewing http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2530/diff/# also? it's a prereq of the other one08:13
wallyworldsure08:13
wallyworldaxw: have to go to dinner, will finish review in a bit08:17
axwwallyworld: no worries, it can wait till tomorrow08:17
axwor OCR, whichever comes first08:17
mupBug #1490075 changed: juju use lxcbr0 rather than juju-r0 <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490075>08:27
mupBug #1490865 opened: destroy-environment on an unbootstrapped MAAS environment can release all my nodes <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490865>08:27
wallyworldaxw: reviewed, one main concern to consider08:46
axwwallyworld: thanks08:47
wallyworldnp08:47
=== akhavr1 is now known as akhavr
axwwallyworld: if you're still there, please see my replies before I merge09:00
wallyworldsure09:01
wallyworldaxw: with the order of operations - we ran into the issue with service status. the status was retrieved first and then the service wasn't there09:02
wallyworldi'm included to prefer the parent doc exist first09:02
wallyworldthe megawatcher was the component affected09:03
wallyworldit was watching status and then got into trouble when it tried to get the service09:03
axwwallyworld: then we need to do it for all other entities too. machine, unit, etc. I'm pretty sure we don't want status docs floating around if the entity we create them doesn't get created though.09:03
wallyworldmy suggestion is to create the entity doc first09:04
wallyworldhence status won't be floating around09:04
axwwallyworld: in which case you can find the entity and not the status...09:04
wallyworldcorrect09:04
wallyworldbut that is think is the lesser of 2 evils09:04
wallyworldas we found with megawatcher09:04
wallyworldconsider the case of watching the status - we get notified there's a status update and then find no parent doc09:05
wallyworldthat i think is a more common case09:05
wallyworldor at least it has bitten us that way09:05
axwwallyworld: I think we should just make the megawatcher resilient to that, rather than making *everything* else prone to errors due to missing prereq docs09:06
wallyworldi'm surpirsed unit machine etc are the "wrong" way09:06
wallyworldi would argue the parent entity is the prereq :-)09:06
wallyworldyou can't have an arm without a body09:06
wallyworldin any case, the megawatchr was made resiliant before the root cause was found09:07
wallyworldi guess if unit, machine etc are one way, then we could be consistent09:07
wallyworldbut i disagree with the order nonetheless09:08
axwwallyworld: ok, so, say I did make this change, and a failure occurs part way through creating a filesystem and we get a filesystem but no status. we restart, find we have the filesystem, then proceed to try to provision... update status and the agent will explode because the status doc is missing09:08
axwwallyworld: this is one example, there will be many more. how would we deal with that?09:09
wallyworldyeah, there's failure modes in either case :-(09:09
wallyworldleave it as i guess09:09
axwmy point is that status->parent is pretty well secluded to the megawatcher09:09
fwereadewallyworld, the motivation for the current approach is that "if you have an X, you should be able to find X's data, and you should be able to treat lack of X data as a guarantee of lack of X"09:09
wallyworldat least it wil be consistent09:09
wallyworldfwereade: but if you have X's data, you should be able to find X09:10
wallyworldas we found out with megawatchr and service status09:10
wallyworldif I have an arm, i should be able to find the body it's attached to09:11
fwereadewallyworld, right, and if we had atomic/isolated txns we could do that, but we don't09:11
wallyworldindeed :-(09:11
fwereadewallyworld, neither a body without an arm nor an arm without a body make much sense09:11
wallyworldfwereade: so service status i think was or is inverted in order then09:11
wallyworldto remove the megawatchr race09:12
fwereadewallyworld, it *should* come into existence before the service, and be removed afterwards09:12
wallyworlda body without an arm makes more sense09:12
wallyworlda tyre without a car makes less sense than a car without a tyre09:13
wallyworldbut if we are to be consistent, then i'll defer to the current practice09:13
wallyworldi just with mgo were Atomic :-(09:14
wallyworldwish09:14
fwereadewallyworld, right, but I will go insane if all the state code I write means I have to figure out what a missing satellite doc means09:14
wallyworldand i could argue the other way too :-)09:14
wallyworldbut, i'll defer to the current implementation for most things09:14
wallyworldat least we have a shared understanding that there's a potential issue09:15
fwereadewallyworld, yeah, in a greenfield scenario we could have an interesting discussion about which way hurts less09:15
wallyworldaxw: so ship it as it09:15
wallyworldis09:15
fwereadewallyworld, I *would* point out that the megawatcher is not an especially sane piece of code, though, and "it's hard to make it work with the megawatcher" is not a very strong argument against a given practice09:17
fwereadewallyworld, http://thecodelesscode.com/case/97 :)09:17
wallyworldfwereade: with megawatcher, i was refering more to the order of acess used09:18
wallyworldwhich i think is a alid use case09:18
fwereadewallyworld, an approach that wasn't sickeningly codependent with the storage details would work fine09:18
fwereadewallyworld, the existence of an X implies the existence of all X's satellite data09:18
fwereadewallyworld, so you *watch for Xs* and then pick up the rest of their data when you need it09:19
wallyworldfwereade: we are mmoving to mongo 3.0 (or planning to) and that has proper acid under the covers, so we will get there soon enough :-)09:19
fwereadewallyworld, right, all we have to do is rewrite the storage backend again, it'll be easy09:19
wallyworldyeah :-D09:20
axwhoho09:20
wallyworldi should have said "soon"09:20
wallyworlda guy can dream09:20
wallyworldone day Hallie Berry will return my calls09:20
fwereadewallyworld, I know, and you're not as wrong as I'm making out :)09:20
fwereadewallyworld, it'll certainly be *easier*09:20
wallyworldindeed09:21
fwereadewallyworld, and the uncommitted state stuff will hopefully help there09:21
wallyworldyes09:21
fwereadewallyworld, did you get a chance to read that wiki doc btw?09:21
wallyworldfwereade: i wish :-( on my todo list, will get there torrow09:22
wallyworldor tonight after a drink09:22
fwereadewallyworld, no worries, but I think we can probably have interesting discussions about it09:22
wallyworldfwereade: if nothing else, i plan on drinking way too much with you in seattle and talking there :-D09:23
fwereadewallyworld, sgtm :)09:23
thomnicohello all (I'm new to go and dev in juju please be gentle)10:57
thomnicoI would like to get a config parameter in juju/container/image.go10:58
thomnicolike http-proxy for expl..10:58
thomnicocan someone provide me an example of that ?? I got lost with the config / environ etc.. options10:59
mupBug #1490947 opened: Unable to add manually provisioned machine previously destroyed <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490947>11:55
perrito666cherylj: congratulations :)12:39
perrito666katco: why would you cancel tanzanite standup?13:27
katcoperrito666: eh?13:27
perrito666I just got an email from gcal stating that you cancelled tanzanite standup, forever13:28
katcoperrito666: uh... can't be a coincidence, i'm trying to get kmail to work with my calendar. i hope it's not doing something completely stupid13:28
katcoperrito666: i just refreshed my canonical calendar...13:29
perrito666well, seems kmail got fun13:29
perrito666katco: trying the new kde?13:29
katcoperrito666: no, i use i313:30
mgzperrito666: you died... ;_;13:30
katcoperrito666: trying kmail because i can't find a good linux mail client. and i especially can't find one that supports caldav. looks like kmail is not an exception >.<13:31
mupBug #1490977 opened: juju run moves errored units state to pending <canonical-bootstack> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490977>13:31
TheMuekatco: I now simply use inbox in a browser, at least for our canonical mail13:32
katcoTheMue: i have 3 inboxes to manage... don't like keeping 3 tabs open 24/713:33
TheMuekatco: my standard mailer can't be told here  *cough* *cough* Apple Mail *cough*13:33
TheMuekatco: yeah, multi account is always nice. once tried thunderbird and quickly shrugged13:35
katcoTheMue: Thunderbird is terribly slow for me13:35
TheMuekatco: I had troubles with the UI, not very intuitive13:36
katcoTheMue: kmail is working ok. pretty speedy, but UI is not intuitive in some places.13:38
cheryljthanks, perrito666 :)13:39
TheMuecherylj: also from my side13:40
cheryljthanks, TheMue :)13:41
anastasiamackatco: u did not like tanzanite standup?... at all?... :(13:44
katcoanastasiamac: i'm sorry :( see above chat... my calendar software decided to be stupid13:51
perrito666katco: i3? why you hate eye candy so much? :p13:52
katcoperrito666: i love eye candy :) i love tiling more13:52
anastasiamackatco: seen and m sympathic but will have fun in the morning :D it's almost midnight13:52
katcoanastasiamac: haha ok... go to bed!13:53
anastasiamackatco: :D but... but... it's the best time to work - everyone else is finally in bed13:53
katcolol13:53
perrito666anastasiamac: amen13:54
perrito666but if you husband is anything like my wife you will eventually hear a "wtf are you doing typing in the middle of the night"13:54
anastasiamacperrito666: he is in IT as well... he is typing in his office too  now :)13:55
perrito666anastasiamac: glorious13:55
perrito666the good thing about night habits is that they get you things if your SO is not a night person13:55
perrito666last thing I heard is  "would you please get a new kindle with light? your bedside light is not letting me sleep"13:56
anastasiamacperrito666: :D better new kindle than separate rooms :)13:57
perrito666anastasiamac: well the only other room of the house is my office :p13:57
perrito666new house got an office at the oposite end of the bedroom so I can be noisy late13:58
anastasiamacperrito666: that's something to look forward to :D13:58
perrito666who has rb and github superpowers?14:01
perrito666I need to close a couple of prs14:01
mgzbogdanteleaga: looks like juju/testing was broken by the last commit on mgo.v214:18
mgzbogdanteleaga: two ways forward, fix that properly, or add a dependencies.tsv for juju/testing that specifies a working revision of mgo.v214:19
bogdanteleagamgz: well, we can't set deps.tsv separately afaik, I think we can just wait for an upstream fix since this isn't that much of a priority now14:39
mgzbogdanteleaga: I am doing it now.14:39
mgzwe just need a dependencies.tsv file specific for juju/testing14:40
mgzlike a subset of the juju/juju one14:40
mgzbogdanteleaga: done it, works14:47
mgzbogdanteleaga: I'll get my branhc review'd and land14:47
bogdanteleagamgz: hmm, this still doesn't seem like a good approach tho14:48
bogdanteleagamgz: it does solve this problem, but it feels really sketchy to have different dependencies for the juju/* stuff that's not core14:49
mgzwell, it would be nice if the tip of all branches a project depends on never breaks14:49
mgzbut that's what happens to us in practice14:49
bogdanteleaga:)14:49
bogdanteleagawait don't we already use the deps.tsv from core?14:50
bogdanteleagaI think that's what's getting me confused14:50
mgzony juju/juju does, the other projects at least pretend at being independant14:50
bogdanteleagaoh, so the rest build with tip14:50
bogdanteleagaok14:50
bogdanteleagathen it definitely makes sense14:50
bogdanteleagaif you could find a way to make it pull the core one it would be great14:51
mgzthe problem with just using the core one is we actually don't want to pull in the mountains of stuff that does14:52
mgzand we still have the issue that changes on another branch can break us, if juju/juju deps get updated14:52
ericsnowkatco: are we still targeting 1.25 for #147815614:53
mupBug #1478156: tabular format does not give enough details about machine provisioning errors <charmers> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1478156>14:53
* marcoceppi hopes14:53
ericsnow:)14:54
katcoericsnow: nope; feature freeze for 1.25.0 has passed. 1.25.114:57
ericsnowkatco: right, I meant 1.25 :)14:57
katcoericsnow: just updated the bug14:57
ericsnowkatco: thanks14:57
katcoericsnow: ty for asking14:57
bogdanteleagamgz: well yeah, if they try to be independent it does make sense to have different ones14:58
bogdanteleagamgz: you could just take what you need from core tho14:58
natefinchmgz: have you talked to gustavo about the mgo breakage?15:00
mgznatefinch: I commented on the mp that broke the test suite15:02
mgznatefinch: https://github.com/go-mgo/mgo/issues/153 if you are curious15:12
natefinchmgz: thanks.15:15
mgzbogdanteleaga: merged15:22
natefinchniemeyer3: have you seen the update about our tests failing because of that IPv4-only change to mgo? ^^15:23
niemeyer3natefinch: Have you seen the update on the update? :)15:24
bogdanteleagamgz: yay thanks15:25
natefinchniemeyer3: have now.  Thanks! :)15:25
natefinchmgz: ^15:25
niemeyer3np, sorry for the trouble15:26
natefinchmgz: sounds like we can avoid putting a dependencies.tsv in juju/testing, which would be my preference15:27
mgznatefinch: I got around it by just putting it in the job15:27
mgznatefinch: we're going to have to have one for charm though I think15:28
natefinchmgz: more than one dependencies.tsv in a build is asking for trouble.15:28
mgzyup, but I think the projects can just ignore any in their dependencies15:30
bogdanteleagacan somebody close https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/2951?15:34
bogdanteleagaI pulled it in another PR to update dependencies and run gofmt15:34
natefinchmgz: not really a fan of packages having their own dependencies.tsv ... why is charm going to need it?  Just for mgo?15:35
bogdanteleagaalso http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2534/ and http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2533/. They're closed on github but reviewboard didn't pick it up15:35
mgznatefinch: charm has various vN branches, the tips of which are not compatible with the tips of all the branches they use15:38
mgznatefinch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12246351/15:39
natefinchmgz: why not?  it should be referencing only things which are stable and/or using gopkg.in for versioning... otherwise we're doing something wrong.15:40
natefinchmgz: that looks like we're doing something wrong :/15:41
katcoericsnow: wwitzel3: natefinch: has anyone updated the wpm spec yet?16:30
ericsnowkatco: I haven't16:30
ericsnowkatco: I'll do it now16:30
katcoericsnow: ty16:30
wwitzel3thanks ericsnow :)16:42
* ericsnow cringes every time he sees "whit has quit"16:48
lazyPowerAre any core devs that are familiar with proxy settings available to help troubleshoot an issue w/ an orangebox in #juju? kwmonroe and I are starting to come up dry as this is one of those grey areas we dont tread in much18:11
ericsnowkatco: did we settle on what "juju status" is supposed to report for workloads?  just a count?  IDs only?18:15
katcoericsnow: no, just that it would be a 1-line representation18:15
ericsnowkatco: k18:15
ericsnowkatco: 1 line per workload or 1 line per unit?18:22
katcoericsnow: 1 per workload, right? because it's workload status, not unit status18:23
ericsnowkatco: k18:23
katcoericsnow: lmk when you're finished18:43
ericsnowkatco: k18:43
perrito666mgz: still around?18:45
ericsnowkatco, natefinch, wwitzel3: could you double-check my updates to the spec?  in particular check my changes relative to status19:08
wwitzel3ericsnow: ok, I'll give it a read19:21
katcoericsnow: i'm tal, but i'd like wwitzel3 to look at it as well since he had a hand in drafting it19:21
ericsnowwwitzel3, katco: thanks19:23
katcoericsnow: in the yaml, do we really need the top-level workloads key?19:24
ericsnowkatco: probably not19:26
katcowwitzel3: here19:26
katcowwitzel3: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PcRQXaerlsACro4y1y5LWD-uvhfHya2CkOcoljyFyCU/edit#heading=h.hvw0kpxrzscu19:26
natefinchericsnow, katco: keep in mind that the yaml has to be produced by code, which has to handle collisions etc.  The reason we have components:workloads:<workload> is because components is a map of all the component names (so you don't have colisions between component names and other stuff in that part of the status), and then workloads as the component name to keep the workload data separate from other component data19:31
natefinchericsnow, katco:  Although... I guess if we're switching this to juju ps, then all of that is irrelevant19:32
ericsnownatefinch: we're not switching all of it19:32
wwitzel3we aren't?19:33
natefinchericsnow: oh, I thought we were totally yanking workloads out of status19:33
ericsnownatefinch: if we are then it certainly is simpler :)19:33
wwitzel3ericsnow: it looks good to me, but I was always under the impression that all status stuff was moving under ps19:44
ericsnowwwitzel3: that's fine with me :)19:45
katcoericsnow: wwitzel3: i can go with that19:46
ericsnowkatco, wwitzel3: I'll update the spec19:46
natefinchericsnow: do we plan on supporting executable plugins in production in the future?20:28
ericsnownatefinch: no immediate plans, but I'm hopeful20:28
mupBug #1491132 opened: Failing ec2 tests <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491132>20:29
natefinchericsnow: should we change the name of the doc?20:39
ericsnownatefinch: nice catch :)20:40
ericsnownatefinch: done20:40
natefinchIf you call 72 point font a nice catch, sure ;)20:40
natefinchericsnow: should we remove all references to plugins for now?.  I think communication on that point has been rather clear and decisive... which doesn't mean we can't bark up that tree another day.20:43
ericsnownatefinch: I thought I had moved all those references down to an "open questions" section20:44
natefinchericsnow: ahh, yes, sorry, the section title had scrolled off the top of the screen :D20:45
natefinchericsnow: there are some comments that still use the word plugin though20:45
ericsnownatefinch: I did not edit any comments (nor planned on doing so)20:46
natefinchericsnow: *nod*, just trying to avoid any misunderstanding due to the use of "old" terminology.20:48
ericsnownatefinch: np20:49
=== cory_fu is now known as cory_out
menn0thumper: here's the PR that was almost done: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/2552/22:03
* thumper finally gets to look at email23:04
wallyworldaxw: anastasiamac: perrito666: our standup event is gone for some reason, i'll create a new one23:16
perrito666yes please23:16
axwwallyworld: katco cancelled it... accident I guess23:16
wallyworldcreated23:17
* wallyworld makes a note to cancel katco's meetings in revenge23:18
axwhehe23:18
wallyworldaxw: can you get in?23:20
katcoaxw: wallyworld: hey i'm so sorry... i tried to refresh my calendars in kmail and for some unknown reason it cancelled the tanzanite standup. i have no earthly idea why23:38
wallyworldkatco: sure, it was all google's fault23:38
katcowallyworld: kmail!23:38
katcowallyworld: didn't we just talk yesterday about how they all suck? ;p23:38
wallyworldkatco: yes we did23:45
wallyworldperrito666: re: rpc and json marshalling of nested map23:46
wallyworldsee bug 148625423:46
mupBug #1486254: Raw Go errors reported to users <jes> <ui> <juju-core:Triaged by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1486254>23:46
wallyworldthe last comment23:46
wallyworldlooks like there's some potential overlap there23:46
wallyworldperrito666: you may want to just deal with simple maps initially23:47
perrito666wallyworld: key=string/int ?23:47
wallyworldperrito666: yeah, that status data was i think only intended to be simple string->string23:48
wallyworldof string->primitive type23:48
wallyworldor23:48
perrito666well that is there then, going with that :)23:48
wallyworldyep23:48
wallyworldno need to over complicate it23:48

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