[00:06] * woo6 was finally able to install xub 14.04 on win10....HyperV created some challenges [00:31] knome: I'll try to take a look this week [09:34] micahg, thanks - and please tell us if it looks like you have no time, because then we'll have more time to track down other people who can do stuff [09:34] hello slickymasterWork [09:35] hey knome [09:39] Morning All [09:40] slickymasterWork, did you see how the PDF files are linked in the documentation yet? === qwebirc639844 is now known as slickymasterWork [09:53] !team | 8-minutes-before-meeting-ping [09:53] 8-minutes-before-meeting-ping: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193 [09:57] dkessel, but that was 7 minutes... [09:58] not in my own timezone [09:58] wait, what? [09:58] :PP [09:58] is your timezone misaligned by one minute? that's very silly.. [09:59] !team | meeting time! [09:59] meeting time!: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193 [10:00] #startmeeting [10:00] Meeting started Wed Sep 2 10:00:08 2015 UTC. The chair is slickymasterWork. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [10:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [10:00] So, who's here for the meeting? [10:01] o/ [10:01] hmmm wondering where Unit193 and knome might be hiding? [10:01] I am not here. [10:01] oh, actually made it [10:02] apparently not Unit193 :P [10:02] of course i'm hiding [10:02] #chair bluesabre, knome [10:02] Current chairs: bluesabre knome slickymasterWork [10:02] #topic Open action items [10:02] there doesn't seems to be none [10:03] anyone has anything? [10:05] nothing here [10:05] still collecting myself [10:06] of course not, if there aren't any, there aren't any... ;) [10:06] knome, I believe the update of the debian/copyright for the documentation is done, right? [10:07] ok, moving along then [10:07] #topic Team updates [10:07] gentlemen, the floor is your's [10:07] please use #info for your items [10:07] slickymasterWork, yes [10:07] #info xfpanel-switch and patched xfce4-panel now available in wily and included on daily image [10:08] * knome refers to tracker.xubuntu.org [10:08] can you please #info that knome [10:08] #info knome updated debian/copyright for documentation [10:08] thanks [10:08] #info knome made the "Official Documentation" part on the startpage more prominent [10:08] #info knome created a timeline of finished work items in the status tracker [10:09] #info flocculant sent exploratory testing information to testers via ML [10:09] #info pleia2 got first batch of flyers printed [10:09] dkessel, anything new in the use of jenkins for automated image testing front? [10:09] slickymasterWork: no, now news [10:09] argh. no news [10:09] ok, thanks [10:10] anything else bluesabre? [10:10] i think we might want to stop doing these updates at some point if the tracker serves us them anyway [10:10] (just use work items to notify about important things) [10:10] slickymasterWork: nothing noteworthy yet, just a lot of things in progress (see tracker) [10:11] oki doke [10:11] apparently I'm going to set a new record time for a team meeting [10:11] beating Unit193's record :P [10:11] i've had short ones too [10:12] good luck, I think ochosi might have set that pretty low once [10:12] lol [10:12] #topic Team updates [10:12] slickymasterWork, we did that already... [10:12] * bluesabre can info his items again [10:13] sorry my bad (multitasking with some work stuff) :P [10:13] #topic Discussion [10:13] there's noting set in the wiki, so does anyone has any last minute items? [10:14] i guess i could start this here [10:14] any questions or anything needed from me (uploads, patches, etc?) [10:14] go ahead knome, please [10:14] #subtopic Stop doing team updates on meetings [10:14] so, as i just said, since the tracker gives us most of that information already, i think this might be more or less useless [10:15] as long as people link bugs and document work items thoroughly, yeah [10:15] especially since it means people have to wait until the meeting to see the updates - the tracker serves them more or less live [10:15] fair point knome [10:15] the original reason for doing the updates on the meetings was to help gathering the monthly team report [10:16] but we haven't been doing that since april [10:16] and still, the tracker is much more reliable [10:16] but of course, it requires that people add work items for anything worth mentioning [10:16] yes [10:17] knome: the tracker is excellent, thanks for getting it together and being responsive with requests and updates ;) [10:17] but since it's one less task to do (to remember the work items for the meeting), and you already need to work with the work items... [10:17] * knome bows [10:17] i'll send a mail about this to the ML [10:17] aha [10:17] #action knome to send a mail to the mailing list about phasing out "Team updates" in the meetings [10:17] ACTION: knome to send a mail to the mailing list about phasing out "Team updates" in the meetings [10:18] thanks also for that knome [10:18] np [10:18] i think i might have had something else [10:18] give me 5 minutes to think about it [10:18] take your time [10:18] or 2... [10:19] nah, i don't think it was anything for the meeting :) [10:21] lol [10:21] we do have a few things to discuss about docs together though [10:21] yeah, but I was thinking on this evening knome [10:21] sure, finish the meeting first [10:22] #action pleia2 to schedule the next meeting [10:22] ACTION: pleia2 to schedule the next meeting [10:22] #endmeeting [10:22] Meeting ended Wed Sep 2 10:22:32 2015 UTC. [10:22] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-09-02-10.00.moin.txt [10:22] thanks david [10:22] sure, np [10:22] so, the few things, just that you know what to expect: [10:23] - did you look how the pdf is linked from in the documentation? [10:23] - installer slideshow stuff [10:23] Team updates are a nice thing if it wasn't on the blueprint, just something out of the blue that got done. Also a nice dumping grounds. [10:23] - installer slideshow translations [10:23] bluesabre: xfdesktop, the new point release? [10:23] - faq stuff for website? [10:23] ok knome [10:24] slickymasterWork, what time would work for you? [10:24] 21:00 UTC [10:24] Unit193, if it wasn't on the blueprint but is something that would be worth mentioning and of interest generally, then it can be added to blueprint [10:24] today is going to be very busy dirung the day [10:24] * during [10:25] does that work for you knome? [10:25] Unit193, but sure, we can still do updates about general tasks that aren't really important enough to put on the blueprints [10:25] slickymasterWork, should do, i'll let you know in advance if it doesn't [10:25] ok, thanks [10:28] Unit193: yeah, that sounds like a nice release. Want to add it to the -dev bp? [10:28] otherwise I'll just keep forgetting about it [10:28] :D [10:28] Minutes are up [10:29] thanks slickymasterWork [10:29] ta [10:30] thanks for hosting the meeting slickymasterWork! [15:22] Anybody here running 14.04 or 15.04, who wants to make a bit of money in exchange for letting me log stuff on their computer? It's for science! You can get up to ~£50 / €68... Ideally UK based, or EU based [15:23] https://study.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multitasking/web/hello (haven't updated but I dumped Unity in favour of Xfce for my study, because reasons) [18:46] Sorry for being AWOL for so long, but I finally just got my internet back! \o/ And picked up with stuff a bit already, but now it's time for dinner. [18:47] bon appetit :) [18:47] Well. :) [18:54] knome: Btw, did you notice the rather excessive margin below the translation links on https://unit193.net/xubuntu/docs/ after your recent changes? [18:55] i did, it's ok [18:55] there's a dotted line there [18:55] and padding and stuff [18:57] I think the bottom padding of '#documentation' could be set to zero or something like that. [18:58] oh gosh no [18:58] don't you see it has a different bg color? [18:58] Nope, not here. [18:58] it's likely not easy to see on lousier monitors, but there it is [18:58] ok. [18:58] it does [18:59] it is #fff while the rest is something else [18:59] #fafafa or #f1f1f1 iirc [18:59] Yeah, lousy, old CRT here. :P [18:59] sure, it's slight [18:59] but it's there [18:59] The first, yes. [18:59] brb [19:02] welcome back krytarik :) [19:02] Thanks! \o/ [19:03] so it seems the way to get people to disappear is add them to Xubuntu Team :D [19:03] Yep, at least that works for me. :P [19:03] ha ha [19:05] Didn't work for me, sorry. [19:10] knome: Hah, on switching it off and on, I can see it here now! :P [19:14] knome: PDF links are still 'DONE', btw - unless you disapprove, of course. [19:27] krytarik, well, i don't think they are perfect... [19:27] krytarik, but we're seeing with slickymaster in 1,5 hours, let's see what he says (and feel free to join the docs sprint) [19:28] Oh, and do the thingy where it doesn't tell you about every rendered page. [19:28] Unit193, like? [20:50] i need the 10 minutes though [20:50] want to kick things os, knome? [20:50] ok, we'll wait [20:50] with both eyes on the TV [20:50] well, feel free to start with things you don't need me for [20:50] hah :P [20:56] evening [20:56] hey ochosi [20:57] hey slickymaster [20:57] how's everything? [20:58] buuuuusy :) [20:58] and tired tired tired [20:58] lol [21:02] knome, bluesabre, flocculant: i pinged satya about numix and gtk3.16 support today, since UIF is creeping up. i haven't tested how bad it currently is - if you can, please take a look so we can decide whether we can continue shipping it as is [21:02] i would take a look myself, but i'm too tired, sry [21:03] i don't know numix well at all, but i could probably look at obvious bugs [21:03] yeah, this is about visual regressions in gtk3 apps [21:04] if there are none, then we shouldn't care too much [21:04] who cares about gtk3 apps anyway? [21:04] * knome hides [21:04] i know i had to fix many things for greybird to work ok [21:04] eg. try an app with CSD but with xfwm4 compositing disabled [21:04] slickymaster, more or less ready now, eating a night snack on the side ;) [21:04] etc [21:05] slickymaster, did you check the PDF linking krytarik made? [21:05] shall we start with how the pdfs are linked from in the documentation, knome? [21:05] yep :P [21:06] nopes, not yet [21:06] well do that [21:06] opening LP [21:06] huh, this is going to take forever [21:06] bluesabre: also, how's it going with the parole and mugshot bugs? [21:06] lol [21:08] knome, that was by rev. 408, right? [21:08] just pick the latest revision... [21:09] already doing that [21:09] was just asking if that was the one [21:09] i don't know, probably [21:12] the it takes to build them now is huge [21:12] * time [21:12] make startpage html [21:12] doesn't do the translations... [21:13] hmm, where are the pdfs stored? [21:14] who cares? [21:14] just go see how the documentation shows them [21:14] :P [21:14] actually, you'll likely need "make startpage html pdf" [21:14] but if you built all, you'll have it [21:15] ahah getting page not found from either a4 and us letter links [21:15] nopes [21:15] that's why I was asking [21:15] should be in the same dir as the html files [21:15] do you have all the build-deps? [21:15] krytarik: this is was I got: [21:15] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh de es fi fr pt [21:15] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 5: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not found [21:15] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 7: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not found [21:15] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 5: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not found [21:15] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 7: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not found [21:15] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 5: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not found [21:16] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 7: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not found [21:16] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 5: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not found [21:16] slickymaster, sudo apt-get install fop [21:16] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 7: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not found [21:16] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 5: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not found [21:16] slickymaster, awwwh, you should know better [21:16] ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: 7: ../scripts/pdf-create.sh: fop: not foundnow he tells me :P [21:16] :) [21:16] you might want to make sure you also have fonts-droid [21:16] but you likely do.. [21:16] I think I have [21:17] ANYWAY [21:17] the question is the way the PDFs are linked to [21:17] wow 32.2 MB of additional disk space will be used [21:17] well, it's a small amount to be able to... fop [21:17] you know. :P [21:17] :P [21:17] night all [21:17] nighty ochosi :) [21:18] night ochosi [21:18] bulding [21:18] slickymaster, make startpage html pdf [21:18] slickymaster, then it's a lot quicker [21:18] just about finishing [21:20] now it's naging about java [21:20] huh? [21:21] krytarik, forgot something from the build-deps? [21:21] /usr/bin/fop: 304: exec: /usr/local/java/jdk1.7.0_51/bin/java: not found [21:21] and I do have java [21:22] knome: Nope. [21:22] what do you think it might be then, krytarik? [21:23] knome, I'll build them tomorrow at work in my VB box, so we can move on now [21:24] yeah, the question was about the linking anyway [21:24] not the PDFs [21:24] slickymaster: What *Ubuntu version are you on then? Should be Wily, of course. [21:24] what about it?, their placement [21:24] krytarik, works for me in vivid [21:24] slickymaster, yes, that, and potentially the appearance [21:24] nopes, this one is still 14.04 krytarik [21:24] the current place isn't my favorite - it's a bit disrupting [21:24] haven't update my laptop yet :P [21:25] I don't particulary like where they are now [21:25] * particularly [21:25] ideally, as i see it, they'd only appear on the front page of the documentation [21:26] (eg. NOT the startpage, but the docs main page with ToC) [21:26] probably before "welcome" [21:26] "Would you rather like to read this documentation in PDF? ..." [21:26] or sth [21:26] I would place them between the last paragraph ant the ToC [21:27] that works for me as well [21:27] the only question with that is "should/how do we check if the files exist" [21:27] and I would prefer a sentence rather then a dry PDF: A$ US Letter [21:27] it would be nice if that paragraph wasn't there when the PDF files weren't around [21:27] but meh [21:28] it would have to be a build-time thing [21:28] like the languages on the startpage [21:28] well it will be a trade of, unless krytarik manages to script something [21:28] but i really don't want to split up the xml... [21:28] so the question is: [21:28] by default, do we always commit to build the PDFs for all languages? [21:29] my opinion is yes, we do [21:29] i don't care if james from jamaica does "make html" and then has a broken link [21:29] (but of course it would be nice if he didn't) [21:30] of course, but the way I see it if we're shipping it why wouldn't commit to build the pdf's in all shipped languages? [21:30] s/wouldn't/wouldn't we [21:31] put it like this, if we weren't to commit the build for all languages, to which ones would we build? [21:31] what would be the criteria? [21:31] http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html#XIncludeFallback [21:32] slickymaster, none, i guess [21:32] * slickymaster opens the link [21:32] though that doesn't totally fix the issue [21:33] we should probably use that mechanism for the translators though [21:33] krytarik, you listening? [21:33] but does provides some margin knome [21:33] knome: Yep. [21:33] + us [21:33] what's your opinion krytarik? [21:34] slickymaster, yes, at least we can build the xml file to be included dynamically only when pdf files exist [21:34] the problem is... [21:34] how are the translations handled? [21:34] at build time? [21:34] strings we want to translate should be in the templates [21:34] yes [21:34] LP can't pick up something we land with a script [21:35] unless we figure out some other way to translate those strings [21:35] or add them to the translation template [21:35] the last would be the fast and easier one [21:36] thing is we start the all process and there's a lot of work done [21:37] what in both your opinions is the best scenario?? [21:37] knome: If you want to include an elaborate sentence that'll have to be translated, it'll have to be in an XML file that's not just generated at build time. [21:37] Like the translators one. [21:37] krytarik, yeah, i was thinking about that [21:41] krytarik, currently, scripts/get-pot.sh only builds the pot for files that are shipped [21:41] so the translators xml isn't translater [21:41] - not that it should, it's always replaced with other info [21:42] It's not there in the first place either. [21:42] except if we want to move the other string there as well [21:42] The contributors to the various translations of this documentation are: [21:42] Attributed on each translation's page. [21:42] this is a bit clunky [21:43] * slickymaster goes to smoke in the meanwhile [21:43] i would just leave it out from the english version [21:44] knome: Yep, apply some DocBook magic then. :) [21:47] the problem is that translators.xml is built dynamically [21:48] so maybe we should include translator-credits.xml (when translators exist) which then shows the message and includes translators.xml with the translator names [21:48] brb [21:48] in a separate xml file knome [21:49] translator-credits.xml, that is [21:49] yes [21:51] that would solve your issue of not wanting to split up the xml [21:51] i mean split the same way as we split up the html [21:52] yes [21:52] * knome thinks [21:58] slickymaster: Ftm, the rationale behind linking to the respective PDFs from every page is better accessibility, and them possibly being accessed directly from a web search. [21:59] krytarik, then we should look to put them in the header or sth [21:59] that place is meh [21:59] yes, I know that. Regarding that I have no doubts [21:59] Like I said earlier, I tried verious places already. [21:59] * various [22:00] my objections are purely aesthetic krytarik [22:00] just that [22:03] krytarik, are we using the build_creds_alt function? [22:04] Nope. [22:04] knome, should we move on to the other items so you and krytarik can mature a possible solution for this [22:04] i'm brewing it [22:04] ok [22:09] well sigh [22:09] the slideshow stuff isn't happening today [22:09] well, we can surface it [22:10] tomorrow I'll have a good day at work knome [22:10] when have you looked at it the last time? [22:10] last sunday I took a quick look at it, after branching it [22:11] ok, do we need a lot of changes? [22:11] I wouldn't say a lot [22:11] we should address LO, of course [22:12] yes... [22:12] and maybe find a way to add the panle switch to one of the existing slides [22:12] * panel [22:13] and also referring the fact that the -docs will also be available as pdf's [22:13] maybe [22:13] but like I said, tomorrow I'm planning on a calm day, so we can start with this in the morning [22:14] i should be around at least for some time [22:14] well, i'll be around a lot [22:14] but available... [22:14] so will I, after these frantic last few weeks [22:15] I'll ping you as soon as I get there [22:15] sure [22:15] and we still have the installer translations to deal with knome [22:16] we didn't have no answers from dylan [22:16] yeah [22:16] or Graber for that matter [22:17] ok, that's a 'date' then for tomorrow knome [22:17] huhu [22:17] ahahaha [22:17] not a three-way this time? [22:17] * slickymaster doesn't see krytarik agrreing on a three-way [22:17] * agreeing [22:17] lol [22:17] :P [22:18] I'll be there only from around 12 UTC though. [22:18] that's fine... [22:18] until when krytarik? [22:18] Open end of course. :P [22:19] huh [22:19] lol [22:19] let's see if i broke stuf... [22:19] +f [22:20] I'll go and try to compensate the three hours of sleep I had last night [22:20] good night [22:20] ttyt [22:20] thanks knome [22:20] mañana krytarik [22:20] always [22:20] Night slickymaster. [23:48] bluesabre, slickymaster cant remember which of you two told me how to fix the compiling issue with thunar by using --enable-maintainer-mode [23:48] i still have the same problem though [23:49] i cant build them... there's something missing in the Makefile somehow