stucomplexsuperfly: do you perhaps have a project I can look at to see the debian/rules or the setup.py files?05:24
magespawngood morning06:56
Symmetriaanyone awake?10:35
melodiewhat's up Symmetria 10:41
Symmetriaheh I need someone to look at a presentation Im giving10:41
Symmetriaand give me their comments10:41
Symmetriapreferably someone who knows nothing about the subject matter :) which would be most of the people in here10:41
Symmetriahttp://server.alstonnetworks.net/afrinic-involvement.pdf 10:42
magespawnhi Symmetria, awake, but only just10:44
Symmetria:P magespawn, take a quick look through that url I pasted10:46
Symmetriaand tell me if you think Im gonna manage to scare ISPs in ZA into doing something10:47
Symmetriaheh, the objective to that presentation is to get south african providers to go "what the hell have we been thinking?"10:50
magespawnto try and get them more involved?10:53
melodieSymmetria 10:54
melodieThe board is bound in its actions by the AfriNICBylaws (the company 10:54
melodieyou don't put a dot at the end of a line in a dotted list10:55
melodieyou put one in the last line10:55
magespawnwill you be giving this presentation directly to the people concerned?10:55
melodieyou put an insecable space and a ; at the end of each line10:55
melodie• The board is bound in its actions by the AfriNICBylaws (the company constitution) ;10:56
melodieSymmetria what too did you use to create this PDF? Not Libreoffice, is it?10:57
melodiewhat tool*10:57
melodiewhich tool* ?10:57
Symmetriamelodie nah, I printed it to pdf outta powerpoint10:57
Symmetriashould probably actually use the adobe pdf print10:57
melodieSymmetria herk!10:57
melodieyou should use Libreoffice10:57
melodieI can't even copy paste correctly from your pdf10:57
melodieit jumps to the wrong line10:58
melodieif you need to create a presentation, you can use Impress in Libreoffice10:58
melodieyou will then get nice pdfs directly from within the program10:58
Symmetriaheh hold on, I'll pdf it with adobe acrobat properly10:58
melodieif you use Windows, you can still have Libreoffice10:58
Symmetriagimme a second10:58
melodieSymmetria 10:58
melodieadobe is not the way to go either10:58
Symmetriamelodie heh, there is a reason for not using libre 10:59
melodieno good reason that I can think of 10:59
melodieneither technical nor ethical 10:59
Symmetriathere are 2 many work related files I'm cross importing from etc that will not work in libre 10:59
melodienor practical10:59
melodiehave you tried?10:59
Symmetriaheh melodie yes, I've been around in this industry a longggg time, I know what works and what doesnt from a corporate perspective :) 11:00
Symmetriayou cannot do VBA macros in libre 11:00
Symmetriaand they are kinda critical for certain things11:00
melodieLibreoffice 5 is out11:00
melodiestay tuned, stay young, stay open!11:00
melodiewell do open source macro then?11:01
Symmetriamelodie heh, I use what is compatible with the majority of the business world, I long ago lost religion about software and operating systems :)11:01
melodieSymmetria your file is not compatible with community contributions, use a pad instead11:02
melodieonce the work improved you can import the modification to your strange tools11:02
melodieSymmetria copy your text here:11:03
melodieat the top 11:03
melodieie: to change this: "Three Types of Membership11:04
melodieResource Members (Any person or entity that "11:04
melodieto this:11:04
melodie• Resource Members (any person or entity that "11:04
melodieit's easier11:04
melodiebecause there is no reason for a caps lock on the "A" there.11:05
Symmetriaok, changing that 11:05
melodieno, change tool11:05
melodiecopy your text to the pad11:05
melodieand connect to that pad, so you can see directly the changes to be made11:05
melodiethere are lots of little things of the same kind to change, not just that one: that was an example11:06
melodiepads are meant for collaborative work through internet, when working directly at the same time11:06
melodieand that ubuntu-africa is reserved for 6 months11:06
melodieSymmetria I can help you if you hurry up because I've got work of my own ongoing at home11:07
Symmetriamelodie what I need here is just comments on the content11:09
Symmetriaas in, what reaction will I get from the message itself11:09
inetprogood mornings12:02
inetproSymmetria: haha, I'll join in with melodie and start with a syntax issue 12:04
inetprothe costs are out stripping12:04
inetproshould that not be outstripping? 12:05
inetproSymmetria: as for the message itself? Very interesting as well as scary... 12:06
inetprowhy are South Africans no longer involved? 12:06
melodiehi inetpro 12:50
melodieSymmetria inetpro it happens that when there are syntax mistakes, the eye will be stopped there for most readers, this is why it has to be very clean, so that we can focus on the content12:51
melodieand again, for collaborative work, it has to be on some place on internet where it's easy to edit, so that you can gest the most of the time the people offer you12:52
melodieinetpro do you happen to read the posts at the Ubuntu Africa mailing list?12:52
Kilosgood evening15:02
magespawnhi Kilos15:12
Kiloshi magespawn inetpro and others15:13
=== smile is now known as smile|fat-eatin
=== MaNL is now known as MaNI
Kiloshi MaNI 15:17
Kilosand smile|fat-eatin filling his belly15:17
magespawnhome time chat later15:18
Kilosgo safe magespawn 15:19
MaNIhows things, still in hospital?15:20
Kilosnono i was only there the one day and after all tests and manipilation they booked me for the 22nd of this month only15:21
MaNIoh okay15:21
Kilosbut their meds make me lazy so i been sleeping lots15:21
=== smile|fat-eatin is now known as smile|brb
inetpromelodie: only when I have a free moment or three 15:45
Kilosinetpro  dag man15:45
inetprooh heh Kilos15:46
* inetpro is ignorant most of the time15:46
Kilosons het net oor 30mm so ver sonder die eerste nag se reen15:46
Kilosso dis 8mm by15:46
inetproKilos: wag, vertel weer vir my, hoeveel het jy gekry?15:50
inetproDonderdag, Vrydag, Saterdag... dit reen al drie dae lank15:50
inetprowel, vanafa Donderdag aand actually15:51
Kilosdie eerste nag toe jy hael gekry het het ons 8mm gekry15:51
Kilosen van dan nog 30mm15:51
inetproek is seker ek het meer gehad daai aand15:51
Kilosmoet meers wees by nou as dit vanmiddag not gereen het. ek het vit 3 hure geslaap15:52
inetprounbelievable, ek het dit nooit verwag nie15:52
inetprobietjie koud, maar die water van bo gaan baie help vir 'n paar weke15:53
Kilossus se dis baie jare laas dat hulle so goeie vroee reen gekry het15:53
Kilosek kry baie koud15:53
inetproja, ek dink ook ons het baie lanklaas so vroeg reen gehad15:54
inetproso baie15:54
inetproongelukkig my reenmeter is toetentaal oppie koffie nou15:55
Kilosmaak nie saak nie15:55
Kiloswat sal val sal val15:55
Kilosmeter doen min15:56
inetpromaar sou graag wou sien hoeveel ons eintlik gehad het, ek is baie seker dit is meer as 40mm15:56
Kilosdis amper soos om weer te kyk op tv15:56
Kiloshelp net om te besluit wat om more aan te trek15:57
inetprowel more begin darem weer warmer word, volgens weather.com15:58
Kilosek hoop so15:58
inetprodaai hael van Donderdag het weer van Noordwes se kant af gekom16:00
Kilosons het gisteraand klein hael gekry , ek het nog nie gaan kyk of daar skade was nie op vrugte bome16:02
=== smile|brb is now known as smile
superflystucomplex: you can look at my package: "openlp"17:51
superflystucomplex: not that I would say it's necessarily a brilliant example, it's just how I've been shown how to do it.17:52
kulelu88wrong channel? superfly 18:17
superflykulelu88: no, continuing a conversation from last night/this morning18:18
Kiloshi superfly kulelu88 18:19
kulelu88yo Kilos 18:22
kulelu88superfly: reveal.js is really cool18:22
superflyi've heard so18:22
kulelu88tinkering with it via ipython ... not so much (cool)18:23
kulelu88superfly: which flask-like web framework allows for web development without OOP?18:25
superflywithout OOP? everything in Python is an object18:26
superflybut flask is largely not class-based18:26
kulelu88superfly: I prefer writing code the imperative way. OOP never made much sense to me18:27
magespawngood evening18:28
Kiloshi magespawn 18:28
superflykulelu88: I'm busy debugging a work issue, but give me about half an hour and we can chat a bit about it?18:29
kulelu88superfly: np, take your time, I'm also working.18:29
magespawnyou guys do realise that it is saturday night?18:31
kulelu88magespawn: you not out as well :P18:31
Kilosnight all. sleep tight18:32
stucomplexsuperfly: Thanks I'll take a look.18:33
magespawnno but i am not working\18:33
superflystucomplex: I'm by no means any sort of authority, this is just what I have done as per my Debian sponsor18:34
superflymagespawn: if only our clients did18:34
magespawnthat is fine, as long as the boss sees it, then it is fine18:34
smilesee you later :)18:56
superflykulelu88: ok, I'm done. 19:31
kulelu88bugfix? superfly 19:31
superflyNope, server issues19:32
Symmetriasup superfly19:32
superflyNow if I can just get my pc to connect to IRC 19:33
superflyHey Symmetria 19:33
Symmetriasuperfly, feel like reading through a presentation I've prepared and giving me your thoughts?19:33
Symmetria(not on how its laid out etc, just on the actual message)19:33
SymmetriaI wanna know how you think people will react to the conent :)19:33
superflySymmetria: not sure how much use I'll be, but sure. 19:33
kulelu88superfly you are the resident expert on all matters here19:33
Symmetriaheh, the less informed you the better position you are in to evaluate how you would react 19:34
Symmetriabecause the ISPs Im presenting that to are clueless19:34
kulelu88how do the ISPs not know what the NIC is? :/19:36
Symmetriaheh, kule because the thing is deeply political19:36
kulelu88is this NIC tied to that fascist organization known as ICANN?19:38
Symmetriaheh kule all the RIR's are tied to ICANN / IANA in some way 19:39
kulelu88Symmetria: it makes sense to anyone with at least the technical aptitude to know what IPv4 is19:40
Symmetriahow do you think the audience will react to those figures19:44
kulelu88are you part of the NIC? 19:45
kulelu88the part about 8 votes will freak some out19:45
kulelu88but that proves the bylaws are flawed19:45
superflySymmetria: you've mentioned this before. Glad to see that you're finally able to make SA ISPs aware. 19:48
Symmetriaheh they are seriously screwed19:49
Symmetriayou gotta fix the bylaws19:49
kulelu88Symmetria: you should suggest that the NIC move to approve voting blocks as part of a representative organization.19:49
Symmetriakulelu88, heh Im on the board of directors 19:49
Symmetriabut I cant fix it without the rest of the board being sane19:49
SymmetriaI need the backing of the community and I need when the next board elections come around to elect people with half a clue19:50
kulelu88that way an ISP can chill knowing that Mr. X (representative of 250 SA members will be voting on their behalf)19:50
Symmetriayeah thats what I basically want, people can hand their votes to me 19:50
Symmetriaand I'll fix it ;p19:50
kulelu88heh, no, you are not Mr. X . You may go Mao on the organization :O :D19:51
Symmetriahaha if I wanted to go Mao on the organisation 19:51
SymmetriaI could already have done it19:51
SymmetriaI have the power to execute that 8 man takeover :P19:51
Symmetriabut I'd really rather not use the nuclear option19:52
kulelu88I think I should join this organization also19:53
kulelu88I enjoy governance. 19:53
kulelu88gets me away from tech a little 19:53
Symmetriawell you can join the policy discussion lists19:53
Symmetriaanyone can do that19:53
Symmetriayou dont need to be a member for that19:53
kulelu88does anyone earn a salary from the 3.6 million?19:54
Symmetriaheh, they have 40 staff that are paid outta that19:54
Symmetriawhich is far 2 many19:54
kulelu8840 workers? Was this setup as a government cadre operation? 19:55
kulelu88I thought there was like 8 staff at max19:55
Symmetrialol more like the frenchies deciding the adopt a "not invented here" attitude and wanting to re-develop everything they could do for free19:56
Symmetriathis is about an anglo-franko conflict 19:56
Symmetriathe frankos will fight anything the anglos come up with19:56
kulelu88you mean the french-speaking english-speaking AU issues have crept into NIC as well? 19:57
Symmetriahaha they have been there for years, and are just getting more and more pronounced19:57
kulelu88just form a voter block and usurp power. The french were renowned colonialist savages19:58
Symmetriathats what Im attempting to do with that presentation19:59
kulelu88I think I should join you and we become president and vice-president19:59
Symmetriaheh, what we need to stop happening is that the meetings where shit happens need to stop being hosted in dodgy french speaking countries20:00
kulelu88With the amount of bureaucracy in such organizations, we will end up fat and have a KFC budget 20:00
kulelu88I'm guessing places like Togo or West Africa?20:01
Symmetriaheh, the next meeting is in point noire in the congo ;p20:02
Symmetriathe previous one was in Tunis which wasn't 2 bad, the one before that was in Djibouti which was a fucking shithole 20:02
kulelu8840 staff and regional meetings in Africa, sounds like an African holiday at the orgs expense20:02
kulelu88Honestly speaking, meetings should probably only happen in : SA, Nigeria, Kenya, and some place like Morocco/Egypt20:03
superflykulelu88: I'm interested to hear what you're struggling with in Flask20:04
superfly(on a completely different note)20:04
kulelu88superfly: It is a philosophical issue20:04
kulelu88OOP feels bloated to me20:04
superflykulelu88: I get what you're saying20:05
superflykulelu88: what language do you have the most experience with?20:05
kulelu88Python, JS and I read through a shit-ton of PHP most days20:05
superflyugh, PHP20:05
superflykulelu88: most languages seem to think that OOP = classes, and I kinda beg to disagree. which is where Python does things slightly differently20:06
kulelu88superfly: I would like to build my first real-world micro-project in Flask. It currently would be RESTful with social-login via LinkedIn20:06
superflykulelu88: OOP most closely matches reality, though20:07
superflykulelu88: for work, we're building a RESTful API, using flask.20:07
kulelu88using flask-restful?20:07
superflykulelu88: mp20:07
superfly(was busy typing that)20:07
superflyI can't stand that class per request thing, ugh20:08
superflyI totally agree with you on that. it's so heavy20:08
kulelu88no chance I get to see the code heh? superfly 20:08
superflyI'm afraid not, but I can show you some similar code20:08
kulelu88I recall that I did build a REST API about a year ago20:08
kulelu88Using Eve20:08
Symmetriaanyway guys Im off to bed20:09
Symmetriagotta fly to ZA in the morning20:09
Symmetriawill be in stellenbosch tomorrow night20:10
kulelu88Symmetria: I will join that mailing list (if I don't forget)20:10
kulelu88Peace 0/20:10
superflykulelu88: http://pastebin.com/CQYb2xbM20:10
superflycheers Symmetria, hope it all goes well20:10
kulelu88that's the kind of code I want to write, superfly . It seems much cleaner than OOP20:11
superflykulelu88: that's very similar to our API at work20:11
superflykulelu88: it's still OOP, it's just not COP20:11
superflyClass-orentated Programming20:12
superflyLanguages like Java, C# and PHP are actually COP, not OOP20:12
superflymost people would tell you there's no difference, but if you start using Python, then you realise that there is.20:12
kulelu88I don't understand. How do you do OOP without classes? Hasn't it always been "define a class, create objects" /20:13
superflyJavaScript is also OOP20:13
superflykulelu88: an object is some instance with methods attached20:13
superflyin Python, functions are objects, variables are objects20:13
superflyin fact, in Python, classes are objects20:13
superflyto totally do you head in ;-)20:14
kulelu88I actually understand the python philosophy of objects better than OOP itself20:14
kulelu88"an instance with methods attached" makes sense20:15
superflykulelu88: http://pastebin.com/bS1ZHGHs20:17
superflya function is an object with methods!20:17
superfly(and properties)20:18
kulelu88superfly: what lib/framework were you using for that example above of an API?20:18
superflyFlask running on Google App Engine20:19
superflyJust those two. Nothing else, other than a couple of helper functions I wrote.20:21
kulelu88I see its missing the ORM. You using App Engines DB right?20:22
superflyit's a document datastore and they provide a Python layer20:24
kulelu88You not using openshift ? 20:25
superflythat's the "ORM"20:25
kulelu88wow, I like how abstracted away it is20:26
=== MaNL is now known as MaNI
superflykulelu88: SQLAlchemy is also a lot like that20:51
superflykulelu88: both NDB (AppEngine's datastore ORM) and SQLAlchemy use some Python magic in a very cool way20:53
superflykulelu88: you use a proper Python comparison to achieve an SQL comparison20:53
superflyModel.property == value20:54
kulelu88superfly: I shall attempt this project after I complete my data science one21:07
superflyCool beans. You know where to find me ;-)21:08
kulelu88superfly: thanks for the guidance!21:08
superflyYou're welcome.21:09
melodiehi Neo31 superfly kulelu88 22:40
kulelu88you're early melodie 22:42
melodiewell not, just busy22:43
melodiethis week is a gran week22:43
kulelu88joke :)22:43
melodie4 machines/users getting dualboot!22:43
melodieall with Bento Openbox :D22:43
melodiekulelu88 did you get the Malinux edition to test it?23:23
kulelu88nope melodie 23:30
melodiekulelu88 do you want to?23:40
kulelu88melodie: how stable is it?23:40
melodieit should be very stable, it's built on Xubuntu 14.04.323:41
melodiethen just a few packages added, then compressed with more efficient options than on the original edition (I tested on just Xubuntu, first, the options did great)23:42
melodieand I tested the result in Virtualbox23:42
melodieAbiword and Gnumeric were replaced with the full Libreoffice suite23:43
melodiethat is the main point23:43
melodieand there are some icons on the desktop that you can't get rid of, unless you tweak /etc/xdg/autostart/Malinux-session.desktop and 23:43
melodiethe /usr/local/bin/ file related :D23:44
kulelu88sounds like a very lightly modified ubuntu23:51
melodiekulelu88 later it will get docs23:52
melodieand a program allowing to browser wikipedia and such things 23:52
melodieoff line 23:53
melodieas if it were on line23:53
melodiewith the kiwix program23:53
melodieI still have to install it locally and test how that works23:53
melodiekulelu88 also I wish I find time to try to build a "Bento Malinux" to provide one even lighter23:54
melodiethis is why I would need feedback related to the one online, to start with23:54

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