[05:24] <stucomplex> superfly: do you perhaps have a project I can look at to see the debian/rules or the setup.py files?
[06:56] <magespawn> good morning
[10:35] <Symmetria> mmm
[10:35] <Symmetria> anyone awake?
[10:41] <melodie> yes
[10:41] <melodie> what's up Symmetria 
[10:41] <melodie> ?
[10:41] <Symmetria> heh I need someone to look at a presentation Im giving
[10:41] <Symmetria> and give me their comments
[10:41] <Symmetria> preferably someone who knows nothing about the subject matter :) which would be most of the people in here
[10:42] <Symmetria> http://server.alstonnetworks.net/afrinic-involvement.pdf 
[10:42] <Symmetria> lol
[10:44] <magespawn> hi Symmetria, awake, but only just
[10:46] <Symmetria> :P magespawn, take a quick look through that url I pasted
[10:47] <Symmetria> and tell me if you think Im gonna manage to scare ISPs in ZA into doing something
[10:50] <Symmetria> heh, the objective to that presentation is to get south african providers to go "what the hell have we been thinking?"
[10:53] <magespawn> to try and get them more involved?
[10:54] <melodie> Symmetria 
[10:54] <melodie> •
[10:54] <melodie> The board is bound in its actions by the AfriNICBylaws (the company 
[10:55] <melodie> you don't put a dot at the end of a line in a dotted list
[10:55] <melodie> you put one in the last line
[10:55] <magespawn> will you be giving this presentation directly to the people concerned?
[10:55] <melodie> you put an insecable space and a ; at the end of each line
[10:55] <melodie> ie:
[10:56] <melodie> • The board is bound in its actions by the AfriNICBylaws (the company constitution) ;
[10:57] <melodie> Symmetria what too did you use to create this PDF? Not Libreoffice, is it?
[10:57] <melodie> what tool*
[10:57] <melodie> which tool* ?
[10:57] <Symmetria> melodie nah, I printed it to pdf outta powerpoint
[10:57] <Symmetria> should probably actually use the adobe pdf print
[10:57] <melodie> Symmetria herk!
[10:57] <melodie> no
[10:57] <melodie> you should use Libreoffice
[10:57] <melodie> I can't even copy paste correctly from your pdf
[10:58] <melodie> it jumps to the wrong line
[10:58] <melodie> if you need to create a presentation, you can use Impress in Libreoffice
[10:58] <melodie> you will then get nice pdfs directly from within the program
[10:58] <Symmetria> heh hold on, I'll pdf it with adobe acrobat properly
[10:58] <melodie> if you use Windows, you can still have Libreoffice
[10:58] <Symmetria> gimme a second
[10:58] <melodie> Symmetria 
[10:58] <melodie> no
[10:58] <melodie> adobe is not the way to go either
[10:59] <Symmetria> melodie heh, there is a reason for not using libre 
[10:59] <melodie> no good reason that I can think of 
[10:59] <melodie> neither technical nor ethical 
[10:59] <Symmetria> there are 2 many work related files I'm cross importing from etc that will not work in libre 
[10:59] <melodie> nor practical
[10:59] <melodie> have you tried?
[11:00] <melodie> http://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/?version=5.0.1
[11:00] <Symmetria> heh melodie yes, I've been around in this industry a longggg time, I know what works and what doesnt from a corporate perspective :) 
[11:00] <Symmetria> you cannot do VBA macros in libre 
[11:00] <Symmetria> and they are kinda critical for certain things
[11:00] <melodie> Libreoffice 5 is out
[11:00] <melodie> stay tuned, stay young, stay open!
[11:01] <melodie> well do open source macro then?
[11:01] <Symmetria> melodie heh, I use what is compatible with the majority of the business world, I long ago lost religion about software and operating systems :)
[11:02] <melodie> Symmetria your file is not compatible with community contributions, use a pad instead
[11:02] <melodie> once the work improved you can import the modification to your strange tools
[11:03] <melodie> Symmetria copy your text here:
[11:03] <melodie> https://semestriel.framapad.org/p/ubuntu-africa
[11:03] <melodie> at the top 
[11:04] <melodie> ie: to change this: "Three Types of Membership
[11:04] <melodie> •
[11:04] <melodie> Resource Members (Any person or entity that "
[11:04] <melodie> to this:
[11:04] <melodie> • Resource Members (any person or entity that "
[11:04] <melodie> it's easier
[11:05] <melodie> because there is no reason for a caps lock on the "A" there.
[11:05] <Symmetria> ok, changing that 
[11:05] <melodie> no, change tool
[11:05] <melodie> copy your text to the pad
[11:05] <melodie> and connect to that pad, so you can see directly the changes to be made
[11:06] <melodie> there are lots of little things of the same kind to change, not just that one: that was an example
[11:06] <melodie> pads are meant for collaborative work through internet, when working directly at the same time
[11:06] <melodie> and that ubuntu-africa is reserved for 6 months
[11:07] <melodie> Symmetria I can help you if you hurry up because I've got work of my own ongoing at home
[11:09] <Symmetria> melodie what I need here is just comments on the content
[11:09] <Symmetria> as in, what reaction will I get from the message itself
[12:02] <inetpro> good mornings
[12:04] <inetpro> Symmetria: haha, I'll join in with melodie and start with a syntax issue 
[12:04] <inetpro> the costs are out stripping
[12:05] <inetpro> should that not be outstripping? 
[12:06] <inetpro> Symmetria: as for the message itself? Very interesting as well as scary... 
[12:06] <inetpro> why are South Africans no longer involved? 
[12:50] <melodie> hi inetpro 
[12:51] <melodie> Symmetria inetpro it happens that when there are syntax mistakes, the eye will be stopped there for most readers, this is why it has to be very clean, so that we can focus on the content
[12:52] <melodie> and again, for collaborative work, it has to be on some place on internet where it's easy to edit, so that you can gest the most of the time the people offer you
[12:52] <melodie> inetpro do you happen to read the posts at the Ubuntu Africa mailing list?
[15:02] <Kilos> good evening
[15:12] <magespawn> hi Kilos
[15:13] <Kilos> hi magespawn inetpro and others
[15:17] <Kilos> hi MaNI 
[15:17] <MaNI> hi
[15:17] <Kilos> and smile|fat-eatin filling his belly
[15:18] <magespawn> home time chat later
[15:19] <Kilos> go safe magespawn 
[15:20] <MaNI> hows things, still in hospital?
[15:21] <Kilos> nono i was only there the one day and after all tests and manipilation they booked me for the 22nd of this month only
[15:21] <MaNI> oh okay
[15:21] <Kilos> but their meds make me lazy so i been sleeping lots
[15:45] <inetpro> melodie: only when I have a free moment or three 
[15:45] <Kilos> inetpro  dag man
[15:46] <inetpro> oh heh Kilos
[15:46] <inetpro> wb
[15:46]  * inetpro is ignorant most of the time
[15:46] <Kilos> ons het net oor 30mm so ver sonder die eerste nag se reen
[15:46] <Kilos> so dis 8mm by
[15:50] <inetpro> Kilos: wag, vertel weer vir my, hoeveel het jy gekry?
[15:50] <inetpro> Donderdag, Vrydag, Saterdag... dit reen al drie dae lank
[15:50] <inetpro> ongelooflik
[15:51] <inetpro> wel, vanafa Donderdag aand actually
[15:51] <Kilos> die eerste nag toe jy hael gekry het het ons 8mm gekry
[15:51] <inetpro> ah
[15:51] <Kilos> en van dan nog 30mm
[15:51] <inetpro> ek is seker ek het meer gehad daai aand
[15:52] <Kilos> moet meers wees by nou as dit vanmiddag not gereen het. ek het vit 3 hure geslaap
[15:52] <inetpro> unbelievable, ek het dit nooit verwag nie
[15:53] <inetpro> bietjie koud, maar die water van bo gaan baie help vir 'n paar weke
[15:53] <Kilos> sus se dis baie jare laas dat hulle so goeie vroee reen gekry het
[15:53] <Kilos> ek kry baie koud
[15:54] <inetpro> ja, ek dink ook ons het baie lanklaas so vroeg reen gehad
[15:54] <inetpro> so baie
[15:55] <inetpro> ongelukkig my reenmeter is toetentaal oppie koffie nou
[15:55] <Kilos> ai!
[15:55] <Kilos> maak nie saak nie
[15:55] <Kilos> wat sal val sal val
[15:56] <Kilos> meter doen min
[15:56] <inetpro> presies
[15:56] <inetpro> maar sou graag wou sien hoeveel ons eintlik gehad het, ek is baie seker dit is meer as 40mm
[15:56] <Kilos> dis amper soos om weer te kyk op tv
[15:57] <Kilos> help net om te besluit wat om more aan te trek
[15:58] <inetpro> wel more begin darem weer warmer word, volgens weather.com
[15:58] <Kilos> ek hoop so
[16:00] <inetpro> daai hael van Donderdag het weer van Noordwes se kant af gekom
[16:02] <Kilos> ons het gisteraand klein hael gekry , ek het nog nie gaan kyk of daar skade was nie op vrugte bome
[17:51] <superfly> stucomplex: you can look at my package: "openlp"
[17:52] <superfly> stucomplex: not that I would say it's necessarily a brilliant example, it's just how I've been shown how to do it.
[18:17] <kulelu88> wrong channel? superfly 
[18:18] <superfly> kulelu88: no, continuing a conversation from last night/this morning
[18:19] <Kilos> lol
[18:19] <Kilos> hi superfly kulelu88 
[18:22] <kulelu88> yo Kilos 
[18:22] <kulelu88> superfly: reveal.js is really cool
[18:22] <superfly> i've heard so
[18:23] <kulelu88> tinkering with it via ipython ... not so much (cool)
[18:25] <kulelu88> superfly: which flask-like web framework allows for web development without OOP?
[18:26] <superfly> without OOP? everything in Python is an object
[18:26] <superfly> but flask is largely not class-based
[18:27] <kulelu88> superfly: I prefer writing code the imperative way. OOP never made much sense to me
[18:28] <magespawn> good evening
[18:28] <Kilos> hi magespawn 
[18:29] <superfly> kulelu88: I'm busy debugging a work issue, but give me about half an hour and we can chat a bit about it?
[18:29] <kulelu88> superfly: np, take your time, I'm also working.
[18:31] <magespawn> you guys do realise that it is saturday night?
[18:31] <kulelu88> magespawn: you not out as well :P
[18:32] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[18:33] <stucomplex> superfly: Thanks I'll take a look.
[18:33] <magespawn> no but i am not working\
[18:34] <superfly> stucomplex: I'm by no means any sort of authority, this is just what I have done as per my Debian sponsor
[18:34] <magespawn> https://www.linux.com/news/featured-blogs/167-amanda-mcpherson/850607-linux-foundation-sysadmins-open-source-their-it-policies
[18:34] <superfly> magespawn: if only our clients did
[18:34] <magespawn> that is fine, as long as the boss sees it, then it is fine
[18:56] <smile> see you later :)
[19:31] <superfly> kulelu88: ok, I'm done. 
[19:31] <kulelu88> bugfix? superfly 
[19:32] <superfly> Nope, server issues
[19:32] <Symmetria> sup superfly
[19:33] <superfly> Now if I can just get my pc to connect to IRC 
[19:33] <superfly> Hey Symmetria 
[19:33] <Symmetria> superfly, feel like reading through a presentation I've prepared and giving me your thoughts?
[19:33] <Symmetria> (not on how its laid out etc, just on the actual message)
[19:33] <Symmetria> I wanna know how you think people will react to the conent :)
[19:33] <superfly> Symmetria: not sure how much use I'll be, but sure. 
[19:33] <Symmetria> http://197.155.81.57/afrinic-involvement.pdf
[19:33] <kulelu88> superfly you are the resident expert on all matters here
[19:34] <Symmetria> heh, the less informed you the better position you are in to evaluate how you would react 
[19:34] <Symmetria> because the ISPs Im presenting that to are clueless
[19:36] <kulelu88> how do the ISPs not know what the NIC is? :/
[19:36] <Symmetria> heh, kule because the thing is deeply political
[19:38] <kulelu88> is this NIC tied to that fascist organization known as ICANN?
[19:39] <Symmetria> heh kule all the RIR's are tied to ICANN / IANA in some way 
[19:40] <kulelu88> Symmetria: it makes sense to anyone with at least the technical aptitude to know what IPv4 is
[19:44] <Symmetria> heh
[19:44] <Symmetria> how do you think the audience will react to those figures
[19:45] <kulelu88> are you part of the NIC? 
[19:45] <kulelu88> the part about 8 votes will freak some out
[19:45] <kulelu88> but that proves the bylaws are flawed
[19:45] <kulelu88> severely
[19:48] <superfly> Symmetria: you've mentioned this before. Glad to see that you're finally able to make SA ISPs aware. 
[19:49] <Symmetria> heh they are seriously screwed
[19:49] <Symmetria> you gotta fix the bylaws
[19:49] <kulelu88> Symmetria: you should suggest that the NIC move to approve voting blocks as part of a representative organization.
[19:49] <Symmetria> kulelu88, heh Im on the board of directors 
[19:49] <Symmetria> but I cant fix it without the rest of the board being sane
[19:50] <Symmetria> I need the backing of the community and I need when the next board elections come around to elect people with half a clue
[19:50] <kulelu88> that way an ISP can chill knowing that Mr. X (representative of 250 SA members will be voting on their behalf)
[19:50] <Symmetria> yeah thats what I basically want, people can hand their votes to me 
[19:50] <Symmetria> and I'll fix it ;p
[19:51] <kulelu88> heh, no, you are not Mr. X . You may go Mao on the organization :O :D
[19:51] <Symmetria> haha if I wanted to go Mao on the organisation 
[19:51] <Symmetria> I could already have done it
[19:51] <Symmetria> I have the power to execute that 8 man takeover :P
[19:52] <Symmetria> but I'd really rather not use the nuclear option
[19:52] <Symmetria> ;p
[19:53] <kulelu88> I think I should join this organization also
[19:53] <kulelu88> I enjoy governance. 
[19:53] <kulelu88> gets me away from tech a little 
[19:53] <Symmetria> well you can join the policy discussion lists
[19:53] <Symmetria> anyone can do that
[19:53] <Symmetria> you dont need to be a member for that
[19:54] <kulelu88> does anyone earn a salary from the 3.6 million?
[19:54] <Symmetria> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd
[19:54] <Symmetria> heh, they have 40 staff that are paid outta that
[19:54] <Symmetria> which is far 2 many
[19:55] <kulelu88> 40 workers? Was this setup as a government cadre operation? 
[19:55] <kulelu88> I thought there was like 8 staff at max
[19:56] <Symmetria> lol more like the frenchies deciding the adopt a "not invented here" attitude and wanting to re-develop everything they could do for free
[19:56] <Symmetria> this is about an anglo-franko conflict 
[19:56] <Symmetria> the frankos will fight anything the anglos come up with
[19:57] <kulelu88> you mean the french-speaking english-speaking AU issues have crept into NIC as well? 
[19:57] <Symmetria> haha they have been there for years, and are just getting more and more pronounced
[19:58] <kulelu88> just form a voter block and usurp power. The french were renowned colonialist savages
[19:59] <Symmetria> thats what Im attempting to do with that presentation
[19:59] <kulelu88> I think I should join you and we become president and vice-president
[20:00] <Symmetria> heh, what we need to stop happening is that the meetings where shit happens need to stop being hosted in dodgy french speaking countries
[20:00] <kulelu88> With the amount of bureaucracy in such organizations, we will end up fat and have a KFC budget 
[20:01] <kulelu88> I'm guessing places like Togo or West Africa?
[20:02] <Symmetria> heh, the next meeting is in point noire in the congo ;p
[20:02] <Symmetria> the previous one was in Tunis which wasn't 2 bad, the one before that was in Djibouti which was a fucking shithole 
[20:02] <kulelu88> 40 staff and regional meetings in Africa, sounds like an African holiday at the orgs expense
[20:03] <kulelu88> Honestly speaking, meetings should probably only happen in : SA, Nigeria, Kenya, and some place like Morocco/Egypt
[20:04] <superfly> kulelu88: I'm interested to hear what you're struggling with in Flask
[20:04] <superfly> (on a completely different note)
[20:04] <kulelu88> superfly: It is a philosophical issue
[20:04] <kulelu88> OOP feels bloated to me
[20:05] <superfly> kulelu88: I get what you're saying
[20:05] <superfly> kulelu88: what language do you have the most experience with?
[20:05] <kulelu88> Python, JS and I read through a shit-ton of PHP most days
[20:05] <superfly> ugh, PHP
[20:06] <superfly> kulelu88: most languages seem to think that OOP = classes, and I kinda beg to disagree. which is where Python does things slightly differently
[20:06] <kulelu88> superfly: I would like to build my first real-world micro-project in Flask. It currently would be RESTful with social-login via LinkedIn
[20:07] <superfly> kulelu88: OOP most closely matches reality, though
[20:07] <superfly> kulelu88: for work, we're building a RESTful API, using flask.
[20:07] <kulelu88> using flask-restful?
[20:07] <superfly> kulelu88: mp
[20:07] <superfly> *no
[20:07] <superfly> (was busy typing that)
[20:08] <superfly> I can't stand that class per request thing, ugh
[20:08] <superfly> I totally agree with you on that. it's so heavy
[20:08] <kulelu88> no chance I get to see the code heh? superfly 
[20:08] <superfly> I'm afraid not, but I can show you some similar code
[20:08] <kulelu88> I recall that I did build a REST API about a year ago
[20:08] <kulelu88> Using Eve
[20:09] <Symmetria> anyway guys Im off to bed
[20:09] <Symmetria> gotta fly to ZA in the morning
[20:10] <Symmetria> will be in stellenbosch tomorrow night
[20:10] <kulelu88> Symmetria: I will join that mailing list (if I don't forget)
[20:10] <kulelu88> Peace 0/
[20:10] <superfly> kulelu88: http://pastebin.com/CQYb2xbM
[20:10] <superfly> cheers Symmetria, hope it all goes well
[20:11] <kulelu88> that's the kind of code I want to write, superfly . It seems much cleaner than OOP
[20:11] <superfly> kulelu88: that's very similar to our API at work
[20:11] <superfly> kulelu88: it's still OOP, it's just not COP
[20:12] <superfly> Class-orentated Programming
[20:12] <superfly> Languages like Java, C# and PHP are actually COP, not OOP
[20:12] <superfly> most people would tell you there's no difference, but if you start using Python, then you realise that there is.
[20:13] <kulelu88> I don't understand. How do you do OOP without classes? Hasn't it always been "define a class, create objects" /
[20:13] <superfly> JavaScript is also OOP
[20:13] <superfly> kulelu88: an object is some instance with methods attached
[20:13] <superfly> in Python, functions are objects, variables are objects
[20:13] <superfly> in fact, in Python, classes are objects
[20:14] <superfly> to totally do you head in ;-)
[20:14] <kulelu88> I actually understand the python philosophy of objects better than OOP itself
[20:15] <kulelu88> "an instance with methods attached" makes sense
[20:17] <superfly> kulelu88: http://pastebin.com/bS1ZHGHs
[20:17] <superfly> a function is an object with methods!
[20:18] <superfly> (and properties)
[20:18] <kulelu88> superfly: what lib/framework were you using for that example above of an API?
[20:19] <superfly> Flask running on Google App Engine
[20:21] <superfly> Just those two. Nothing else, other than a couple of helper functions I wrote.
[20:22] <kulelu88> I see its missing the ORM. You using App Engines DB right?
[20:24] <superfly> yup
[20:24] <superfly> it's a document datastore and they provide a Python layer
[20:25] <superfly> Agent.query().filter(Agent.token==token).get()
[20:25] <kulelu88> You not using openshift ? 
[20:25] <superfly> that's the "ORM"
[20:25] <superfly> no
[20:26] <kulelu88> wow, I like how abstracted away it is
[20:51] <superfly> kulelu88: SQLAlchemy is also a lot like that
[20:53] <superfly> kulelu88: both NDB (AppEngine's datastore ORM) and SQLAlchemy use some Python magic in a very cool way
[20:53] <superfly> kulelu88: you use a proper Python comparison to achieve an SQL comparison
[20:54] <superfly> Model.property == value
[21:07] <kulelu88> superfly: I shall attempt this project after I complete my data science one
[21:08] <superfly> Cool beans. You know where to find me ;-)
[21:08] <kulelu88> superfly: thanks for the guidance!
[21:09] <superfly> You're welcome.
[22:40] <melodie> hi Neo31 superfly kulelu88 
[22:42] <kulelu88> you're early melodie 
[22:43] <melodie> well not, just busy
[22:43] <melodie> this week is a gran week
[22:43] <kulelu88> joke :)
[22:43] <melodie> 4 machines/users getting dualboot!
[22:43] <melodie> all with Bento Openbox :D
[23:23] <melodie> kulelu88 did you get the Malinux edition to test it?
[23:30] <kulelu88> nope melodie 
[23:40] <melodie> kulelu88 do you want to?
[23:40] <kulelu88> melodie: how stable is it?
[23:40] <melodie> http://phillw.net/isos/bento-ubuntu-remix/malinux/
[23:41] <melodie> it should be very stable, it's built on Xubuntu 14.04.3
[23:42] <melodie> then just a few packages added, then compressed with more efficient options than on the original edition (I tested on just Xubuntu, first, the options did great)
[23:42] <melodie> and I tested the result in Virtualbox
[23:42] <melodie> installed...
[23:43] <melodie> Abiword and Gnumeric were replaced with the full Libreoffice suite
[23:43] <melodie> that is the main point
[23:43] <melodie> and there are some icons on the desktop that you can't get rid of, unless you tweak /etc/xdg/autostart/Malinux-session.desktop and 
[23:44] <melodie> the /usr/local/bin/ file related :D
[23:51] <kulelu88> sounds like a very lightly modified ubuntu
[23:52] <melodie> kulelu88 later it will get docs
[23:52] <melodie> and a program allowing to browser wikipedia and such things 
[23:53] <melodie> off line 
[23:53] <melodie> as if it were on line
[23:53] <melodie> with the kiwix program
[23:53] <melodie> I still have to install it locally and test how that works
[23:54] <melodie> kulelu88 also I wish I find time to try to build a "Bento Malinux" to provide one even lighter
[23:54] <melodie> this is why I would need feedback related to the one online, to start with