[06:55] <stub> aisrael: users are just roles in PostgreSQL. When the PG charm generates the new user/role, we grant it the old user/role so it gets all the old permissions.
[06:55] <stub> aisrael: So we don't need to introspect the database and change all the ownership, which is good as it is a) non trivial and b) quite invasive.
[07:50] <ParsectiX> Hi jujuers. IS there a way to run a sandbox of juju on my laptop ?
[09:10] <sparkiegeek> gnuoy: dosaboy: wolsen: can I get some review ♥ for https://code.launchpad.net/~adam-collard/charms/trusty/swift-storage/guard-paused-unit-service-restarts/+merge/269860 please?
[09:12] <gnuoy> sparkiegeek, isn't pause_aware_restart_on_change going to be applicable to lots of your maintenance actions?
[09:12] <sparkiegeek> gnuoy: yes, I assume your next question is "why not charm-helpers?"
[09:13] <gnuoy> sparkiegeek, it is, but maybe that's the layout change
[09:13] <sparkiegeek> gnuoy: to which the response is - thought about it, but the is_paused() semantics could be different for each charm
[09:17] <gnuoy> sparkiegeek, merged
[09:17] <sparkiegeek> gnuoy: thank you!
[09:17] <gnuoy> np
[10:40] <stub> Is it still possible for juju to be running 2 hooks simultaneously in the case where you have two units smooshed onto one machine? Or are hooks serialized per machine now?
[10:40] <stub> I think they are serialized now, as my primary and my subordinate hooks no longer clash.
[10:41] <stub> And if so, anyone know what version this changed in?
[10:42] <stub> Thinking that apt failing to grab a lock may indicate a real failure now, rather than something intermittent requiring retries
[12:37] <elmo> stub: there's a broken assumption there .. brb
[12:37] <sparkiegeek> broken assumption?
[13:16] <stub> But the assumption is too large  for this margin
[13:17] <elmo> haha
[13:18] <elmo> stub: the broken assumption is that only juju is invoking apt on a system
[13:18] <elmo> stub: the classic counterexample is landscape
[13:19] <sparkiegeek> elmo: stub: right! I'm wondering if aptdaemon has a role to play here
[13:20] <sparkiegeek> of course it's not a complete answer because there will always be something else invoking APT and taking locks
[13:22] <stub> I think we need a synchronous apt-get update that keeps retrying until it works or fails hard (screwed apt, timeout). And an apt-get install that just tries and fails (eg. trying to install an unsigned package)
[13:22] <stub> I know nothing about aptdaemon or if it can help.
[13:23] <stub> I've looked at the code and can adjust retries or add my own timeout easily enough, so I can work around for a particularly problematic charm like Cassandra
[13:23] <sparkiegeek> stub: well the idea of aptdaemon is that it's one process that talks to APT and clients just make requests of it to do things
[13:24] <sparkiegeek> stub: I'm curious, what is it about Cassandra charm that makes the current logic problematic?
[13:24] <stub> Sounds good if you can wait for it to report success, rather than fire and forget and hope the job is done before you need it
[13:25] <stub> The Cassandra charm can install DataStax Enterprise, which exists in a password protected apt archive. Remembering to add the URL in the first place, getting it right - it doesn't sound like much, but so far everybody has screwed up some part of the configuration.
[13:28] <sparkiegeek> so the issue is that it takes 5mins to report the screw up?
[13:29] <stub> With archive.ubuntu.com, a ppa, the us datastax.com - apt-get update takes a minute or two to run and fail. 30 times that is not 5 minutes.
[13:31] <stub> Now I realize it is retrying a fixed number of times, I can lower that number. I'd assumed it was retrying forever, because that is what it felt like :)
[13:31] <sparkiegeek> :)
[13:35] <stub> aptdaemon looks nice. I'm also drawn to a few nice features like partial updates (update only the sources in a given sources.list).
[13:37] <stub> I have a feeling some of this will need work for wily. aptdaemon may simplify things.
[13:37] <sparkiegeek> i'm not sure whether we ship policykit in cloud images, do you know?
[13:39] <stub> No idea. Does it matter for root?
[13:42] <sparkiegeek> well it seems that aptdaemon depends on PolicyKit, *shrug*
[13:43] <sparkiegeek> I mean depending on aptdaemon just gives you a bootstrap issue - how do we get aptdaemon in the first place :)
[14:03] <stub> sparkiegeek: The bootstrap packages aren't as hard, as we know there is a working primary archive or we would not have gotten as far as an install hook.
[14:03] <stub> sparkiegeek: but yeah, it would need to retry there.
[14:03] <sparkiegeek> stub: right, that's what I meant - two units racing to install aptdaemon
[14:04] <stub> sparkiegeek: Until juju sticks charmhelpers on the units for us and the charm dependency bootstrap problem goes away.
[14:04] <sparkiegeek> stub: I Want To Believe
[14:05] <stub> Or we make aptdaemon a snap.