[00:09] <Unit193> knome: Pong ish.
[00:09] <knome> what?
[00:10] <Unit193> You pinged.
[00:10] <knome> i wonder why...
[00:10] <knome> let me see the backlog for context
[00:11] <knome> nope.
[00:11] <knome> i'll ping you again if i remember...
[00:11] <Unit193> Good, because I'm gone again. :D
[00:11] <knome> aha
[00:11] <knome> have fun
[00:21] <bluesabre> :D
[00:22] <bluesabre> the parole crash is pretty annoying... it dies at g_signal_handler_disconnect... even though we make sure the signal is connected beforehand
[00:22] <knome> :)
[00:26] <bluesabre> technically, we can not disconnect the signals at when it's shut down, they *should* get disconnected when everything closes and is finalized
[00:29] <bluesabre> i think
[00:29] <knome> heh
[00:30] <bluesabre> guess I'll need to valgrind a vivid vs wily vm
[00:39] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, taking a pic of my mug seems to work better now. Before it got stuck on "initializing camera".
[00:43] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: great, that's very goood news
[00:43] <bluesabre> bbiab
[00:52] <knome> waiting very impatiently for new uploads :)
[00:52] <knome> jjfrv8, did you need help with the thunar documentation?
[00:53] <micahg> knome: I'll be either looking at stuff tonight or tomorrow
[00:54] <knome> micahg, happy to hear; here's hoping you will find the time and energy
[00:54] <jjfrv8> knome, don't think so. I've been in a holding pattern pending ochosi's review.
[00:54] <knome> jjfrv8, okay :)
[01:07] <knome> ok, i'm off
[01:07] <knome> see you all later
[01:27] <bluesabre> back
[01:27] <bluesabre> hey micahg
[07:41] <knome> bluesabre, i guess you will still need to upload stuff to shimmer-themes?
[08:39] <xnox> knome: depedns if that's for upload rights or for inclusions in the various -meta packages
[08:40] <knome> xnox, we had shimmer-themes, now it's slipped in the kubuntu packageset
[08:41] <knome> and we want it back; we're basically the upstream for that, and the package includes gtk/xfwm themes and is of no use to kubuntu
[08:41] <knome> so i don't know what the answer to your question should have been...
[09:15] <knome> slickymasterWork, any updates on the translations for the ubiquity slidehow
[09:18] <knome> +s...
[09:22] <knome> slickymasterWork, seeing as thing are now, it's likely that this will be postponed for w+1 though..
[10:00] <slickymasterWork> up to now, nothing from no one knome :(
[10:00] <knome> mhm
[10:00] <knome> well i guess that means people don't mind, so it's ok to proceed with it
[10:02] <slickymasterWork> isn't that rationale an assumption stretch
[10:02] <slickymasterWork> ?
[11:45] <bluesabre> knome: yeah, I'll probably need to, but micahg uploaded the most recent shimmer-themes package already
[11:45] <bluesabre> so no immediate rush
[11:47] <bluesabre> xnox: orion-gtk-theme was added as a recommends to the breeze package (for some reason) which yanked shimmer-themes out of xubuntu and into the kubuntu packageset
[11:48] <bluesabre> somewhat unfortunate for them since nobody maintains that theme ;)
[11:49] <knome> :)
[13:31] <knome> krytarik, so... should we tackle the pdf stuff placement today?
[13:32] <krytarik> knome: Well, I'm not particularly sure what you and slickymaster are getting at currently. :P
[13:33] <knome> i do
[13:33] <knome> i can do a mockup for you soonish and i can help with it as well
[13:33] <knome> i even have some work for it done in a branch...
[14:11] <knome> he-heeyyyy
[14:11] <knome> i hacked this successfully!
[14:11] <knome> well, almost at least
[14:12] <knome> but i solved a problem
[14:26] <knome> huzzah
[14:26] <knome> another problem solved
[14:26] <knome> not digging for a solution for a third one
[14:30] <knome> krytarik, is there any way to check if another target is called within a Makefile?
[14:30] <knome> krytarik, eg. if i do "make all", is there any way to check which targets are being built for the "html" target?
[14:30] <knome> krytarik, or do we have to introduce another target that touches some file or sth?
[14:32] <krytarik> knome: What specifically do you want to achieve then?
[14:32] <knome> krytarik, currently, we are doing the html stuff first
[14:33] <knome> is there any way to check whether the PDF's will build, eg. if we should mention them in the docs?
[14:33] <knome> the "obvious" choices are to
[14:33] <knome> 1) simply make pdf before html, but that's meh
[14:33] <knome> 2) create a new target (added to all and pdf) that touches a file
[14:33] <knome> then all would be
[14:34] <knome> all: clean pdf-check html html-translations pdf pdf-translations
[14:34] <knome> or sth
[14:34] <knome> and pdf
[14:34] <knome> pdf: | pdf-check
[14:34] <knome> (in case somebody ran "make pdf html")
[14:35] <knome> krytarik, does that make sense at all?
[14:35] <krytarik> Yeah, thinking.
[14:36] <knome> the actual logic would be to copy the file to the dir so it's found and will be included if we are building pdf's
[14:36] <knome> if not, it will not be found and docbook will fall back to no content
[14:36] <knome> i did the same for the translators
[14:37] <knome> (basically, C never has that section and thus no weird sentences about each language)
[14:37] <knome> but for languages, i'm creating translators.xml based on a translated translator-credits.xml
[14:38] <knome> ..which basically has one string
[14:43]  * knome whistles
[14:48] <krytarik> knome: You can't really assume a certain build order though.
[14:48] <knome> no
[14:49] <knome> but otoh, that's the beauty
[14:49] <knome> if you don't want mentions of the pdf's, just build them after html
[14:49] <knome> i'm fine with them being fine with just "all" though
[14:49] <knome> because if people do weirdo things themself (like Unit193 does), they can't expect everything to work
[14:50] <krytarik> I'm thinking we might just go with your suggestion to assume they're always build. :P
[14:50] <knome> well, mostly they are
[14:51] <knome> but... i guess i'd like to not do the mention if they aren't there
[14:52] <krytarik> Yeah, I'm going to continue thinking about it.
[14:52] <knome> ok, i'll wait for some more time and do a commit for the translator stuff meanwhile
[14:56] <knome> krytarik, so what do you say
[14:57] <knome> krytarik, should i do "just something" to get it to work for wily?
[14:57] <knome> krytarik, or how long do you think your thinking will take
[14:57] <krytarik> Yeah, I'd go with I just said. :P
[14:57] <krytarik> + what
[14:57] <knome> so... assumptions?
[14:58] <krytarik> Always in there, that is.
[14:58] <knome> yeah, right...
[14:58] <knome> that's one option
[14:59] <knome> i'll consider about it
[14:59] <knome> doing a "fake" check target isn't too hard
[14:59] <knome> and we can simply document that
[14:59] <knome> if people start whining about it
[14:59] <knome> right?
[14:59] <knome> or just ignore them.
[15:00] <krytarik> I think hardly any people aside from us build them anyway.
[15:00] <knome> yeah
[15:13] <knome> krytarik, can you think of a reason why we wouldn't just translate all xml files that are in C/?
[15:13] <knome> we use shipped-docs now, but it wouldn't be a big hit even if we didn't use some translations
[15:13] <knome> it's so quick to do them anyway
[15:13] <knome> just an idea..
[15:14] <krytarik> Honestly, I was thinking we're doing that.
[15:17] <knome> nope.
[15:17] <knome> i'll look at disabling that at least
[15:18] <knome> hmm..
[15:18] <knome> yep.
[15:20] <knome> there we go
[15:34] <knome> ok, i think that is done now...
[15:34]  * knome test-builds once more
[15:37] <knome> oh heh,
[15:37] <knome> yeah...
[15:37] <knome> that
[15:39] <bluesabre> :D
[15:40] <bluesabre> I think intltool got a bit dumber in wily
[15:41] <bluesabre> it generates its own makefiles, and guesses at what should be in there
[15:41] <bluesabre> only now it guesses incorrectly :\
[15:41]  * bluesabre avoids building parole for a while
[15:46] <knome> :D
[15:46] <knome> krytarik, i found a reason why we don't want to translate all files
[15:47] <knome> krytarik, cc-by-sa.xml
[15:47] <krytarik> Ah, right.
[15:51] <knome> ok, pushing
[15:51] <knome> eh, diverged
[15:52] <knome> pushing again...
[15:52] <knome> revision 424 up
[15:52] <knome> huhu
[15:52] <knome> krytarik, please test
[15:52] <knome> slickymasterWork, ping, please test lp:xubuntu-docs
[16:00] <akxwi-dave> Hi Knome, just to let you know been testing the new xfdesktop and so far so good, nothing has hit me with any problems..
[16:05] <knome> akxwi-dave, good to hear
[16:05] <knome> flocculant, bluesabre ^
[16:06] <bluesabre> akxwi-dave: that's good news, considering I just uploaded it a few minutes ago to wily
[16:06] <bluesabre> :D
[16:06] <bluesabre> thanks for taking a look!
[16:07] <akxwi-dave> :-) will keep pushing it harder..  just done the basics so far.. but will start throwing some extra wobblies at it.
[16:21] <pleia2> knome: I'm a day behind, but finally home insight on what? (lost in backscroll, would have to open logs...)
[16:22] <knome> i'll open the log...
[16:23] <knome> right
[16:23] <pleia2> haha, I can, just didn't know if you knew offhand
[16:23] <knome> pleia2, flocculant was asking about why ubuntu mate can take donations
[16:23] <knome> pleia2, and stuff around it
[16:24] <pleia2> either they made some kind of arrangement with Canonical or are ignoring potential conflicts/legal/whatever stuff
[16:24] <pleia2> it's easy to ignore them, most young projects do
[16:24] <knome> would be nice to know
[16:24] <pleia2> someone could ask them :)
[16:24] <knome> maybe
[16:25] <knome> anyway, the point is that the donations they get aren't very small, they are giving away like 350-400$ a month in total
[16:25] <knome> ok, they aren't very large either
[16:25] <knome> but they are basically giving their own developers and maintainers money
[16:26]  * pleia2 nods
[16:27] <pleia2> I have no interest in handling finances and taxes for these things, I do it for a non-profit that's only US-based and that's hard enough
[16:27] <knome> yep
[16:28] <pleia2> so even if Canonical is ok with it, the administrative overhead for non-trivial amounts of money is painful
[16:28] <knome> yeah, i'm not exactly looking to start taking donations
[16:28] <knome> i just asked #ubuntu-mate, let's see what they say
[16:30] <davmor2> pleia2, knome: also you can just ask people to give when they download the image, Pretty sure you can select xubuntu, then canonical have the over head
[16:30] <pleia2> davmor2: there's no xubuntu or flavors slider anymore, just community - a fund we can draw from
[16:31] <pleia2> davmor2: so we mention that on our donations page :) http://xubuntu.org/donations/
[16:31] <davmor2> ah fair enough
[16:31] <davmor2> I haven't seen that page in a while
[16:36] <knome> davmor2, if you have problems with eyesight, i would consult a doctor ;)
[16:37] <davmor2> knome: :P
[16:37] <flocculant> not on a monday in the uk ... 
[16:39] <knome> hah
[16:47] <bluesabre> not without insurance in the us ...
[16:57] <bluesabre> new blueman uploaded, expect to see that a bit later today
[17:21] <knome> bluesabre, assigned the bug to you...
[17:22] <knome> nice to see the burndown looking better day by day
[17:22] <krytarik> knome: You changed the indention style of all scripts, thus also making the diff a little hard to read. >_<
[17:22] <knome> krytarik, yeah but the indentation sucked
[17:22] <knome> it was a mix of tabs and spaces...
[17:25] <bluesabre> knome: thanks
[17:34] <bluesabre> krytarik: diff -w ?
[17:34] <krytarik> Yep, done already - had to download the files from a previous revision for that, of course.
[17:35] <bluesabre> might be able to do bzr diff --diff-options=-w or something similar
[17:36] <bluesabre> haven't tried it
[17:36] <krytarik> Ah, right.
[17:41] <knome> :)
[17:49] <krytarik> knome: Slight streamlining and adjustments: http://paste.openstack.org/show/f4g6iLQNuq0PtGoZKBjr/
[17:53] <krytarik> knome: Also, while slickymaster seemed to agree with your idea to only link to the PDFs from each doc version's main page, he's also said he agrees with my idea of linking to them from each page - hence my confusion reg. him.
[18:02] <knome> krytarik, MP please or i'll forget...
[18:02] <knome> (and mess it up)
[18:04] <krytarik> bluesabre: Didn't even think of doing it within bzr, that is :P - that works though.
[18:04] <knome> krytarik, if you have a better idea on how to remove the xml tag from the files than tail...
[18:09] <bluesabre> krytarik: at work I have my editor set up to convert tabs to spaces and strip trailing whitespace... and I'm the only one so I depend on the -w option to see what I am breaking
[18:09] <bluesabre> otherwise its just alllllll whitespace changes
[18:10] <krytarik> Hehe.
[18:27] <Unit193> What?  I don't do that weird of things, and sure I can expect things to work.
[18:37] <knome> nnoooo.
[18:43] <knome> bbl
[18:46] <krytarik> knome: 'tail' is fine there, I guess - only the '-q' flag is unnecessary.
[19:02] <bluesabre> flocculant: poke
[19:08] <bluesabre> ochosi: poke
[19:09] <bluesabre> anybody around running wily want to take mugshot 0.3.0 for a spin before I upload today? https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
[19:09] <bluesabre> if you haven't installed today's xubuntu-default-settings and restarted your session, do that first ;)
[19:09] <bluesabre> today/yesterday's
[19:13] <krytarik> knome: So it's currently at: http://paste.openstack.org/show/Gfqdqx4eP8c61pyZhtpQ/
[19:26] <flocculant> bluesabre: that'll be a \o/ 
[19:30] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, 0.3.0 still looking good here too.
[19:36] <bluesabre> good good
[19:36] <flocculant> oh ... 
[19:36] <bluesabre> uh oh
[19:36] <flocculant> yep - still \o/ 
[19:36] <flocculant> :D
[19:36] <bluesabre> phew
[19:37] <flocculant> freshly brewed dad joke
[19:37] <bluesabre> seems the tea leaves were bad, better toss it out
[19:37] <flocculant> seem good to me 
[19:38] <bluesabre> :D
[19:39] <flocculant> still appear to have parole issues here - but assume that's because old install
[19:39] <bluesabre> flocculant: which issues?
[19:39] <knome> bluesabre, don't ask him what "issues" he has
[19:39] <flocculant> crashing
[19:40] <flocculant> knome: it's ok - we're talking specific issues currently :D
[19:40] <knome> ;)
[19:40] <knome> better be very specific then..
[19:40] <bluesabre> flocculant: crash on close or startup?
[19:41] <flocculant> close
[19:41] <bluesabre> cool
[19:41] <bluesabre> I have a fix for that now, just in any of our PPAs at the moment
[19:41] <bluesabre> *not
[19:41] <knome> it's always funny when you're told that "app crashed so it must close" - when you click on the close button..
[19:42] <knome> micahg, hello
[19:42] <flocculant> bluesabre: cool 
[19:43] <bluesabre> I'll probably have that uploaded some time today, hopefully
[19:43] <flocculant> okey - I'll watch for something regardless of when 
[19:48] <bluesabre> in fact, packaging it to send to ppa now
[19:53] <bluesabre> flocculant: uploaded to xubuntu-staging... should build and be available shortly
[19:53] <bluesabre> I feel so productive on my days off
[19:54] <flocculant> ha ha 
[19:54] <flocculant> ok - well I'll check in a bit, if not it'll be the morning 
[19:54] <bluesabre> alrighty
[20:09] <bluesabre> flocculant: should be available now (and anybody else interested in parole not dying)
[20:13] <krytarik> knome: Btw, the all-spaces indention in the lower 'sed' part of pdf-create.sh was deliberate, to adapt to the formatting of the produced HTML file.
[20:14] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, verified crash on close pre-upgrade, all better after. Didn't do much more testing than that.
[20:14] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: great, thanks
[20:14] <krytarik> knome: Not that it matters currently, since we're not using that now.
[20:16] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, gmusicbrowser crashes on close. Related?
[20:16] <bluesabre> jjfrv8: slim possibility that it might be
[20:17] <bluesabre> I'll have to check that out
[20:17] <flocculant> bluesabre: not seeing new parole - but then I've got it available from staging and daily - and daily failed to build
[20:17] <bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, need to fix daily build.. new build requirement in trunk
[20:18] <bluesabre> the one is -staging should be good if you were to force install it, the bugfix was pretty clear for that one
[20:19] <flocculant> yeo
[20:19] <flocculant> confirm that fix :)
[20:20] <knome> krytarik, :)
[20:40] <flocculant> well - night all :)
[20:41] <bluesabre> night flocculant 
[20:41] <bluesabre> and parole-daily should be fixed tomorrow
[20:41] <bluesabre> ... if I commit a change to trunk
[20:46] <bluesabre> and possibly add appstream to our ppa
[20:46] <bluesabre> work work work
[20:52] <knome> pleia2, what kind of data do we want to get out of the survey results?
[20:53] <knome> pleia2, can you think of any correlations we'd like to do?
[21:02] <two_jays> dkessel: can you tell me how to review a suggested translation in launchpad? i already did a ne translation, but couldnt see how i could review one. Thanks :)
[21:04] <knome> two_jays, you can't review unless you are a member of a specific LP group
[21:06] <two_jays> ok. then i will keep translating. and if i think a suggested one is good should i copy it or leave that completely?
[21:11] <knome> two_jays, if something is suggested and it's good, just leave it
[21:11] <knome> two_jays, and thanks for contributing
[21:16] <two_jays> im happy to help you. I like Xubuntu and want to take part in that :) its my 
[21:16] <two_jays> main and productive system for my studies.
[21:17] <knome> :)
[22:12] <bluesabre> wonderful progress today
[22:18] <knome> :)
[22:18] <knome> same amount tomorrow and we're looking much better:P
[22:24] <bluesabre> tomorrow I work, so don't expect that from me :D
[22:25] <knome> nooooo
[22:25] <knome> :P
[22:41] <knome> micahg, good evening
[22:42] <knome> slickymaster, around?
[22:46] <bluesabre> nope
[22:46] <knome> nope what?
[22:47] <bluesabre> he's not around
[22:47] <bluesabre> :D
[22:47] <bluesabre> found a fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1395720, woohoo
[22:47] <knome> :)
[22:47] <knome> nice
[22:57] <knome> time for an upload then ;)
[22:58] <knome> with the optional CSD flag for catfish, obviously
[22:58] <knome> two items with one upload!
[22:58] <knome> BANG
[22:58] <bluesabre> that's the plan
[22:58] <bluesabre> trying to fix all the things
[22:59] <knome> heh
[23:17] <pleia2> knome: the survey we already did, or a future one?
[23:18] <knome> we did
[23:19] <knome> i hate analyzing surveys with LO calc, fwiw
[23:19] <knome> especially since google exports the results in a VERY silly format
[23:19] <flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Thanks for your work on Blueman2 :-)
[23:19] <pleia2> heh
[23:19] <knome> (all answers for a checkbox group are comma separated in a single cell, not different columns)
[23:20] <knome> ^ MEHH
[23:20] <pleia2> that's annoying
[23:20] <knome> yeah
[23:20] <knome> i was actually just considering creating an sql database for that
[23:20] <knome> and scrape results off that...
[23:20] <pleia2> nice
[23:21] <knome> but not if we don't need correlation data
[23:21] <knome> because the basic stuff is totally available from gforms directly
[23:21] <knome> and i'm not sure what correlations we'd like
[23:21] <knome> maybe that would mean we'd be overthinking it
[23:21] <pleia2> heh :)
[23:21] <knome> anyway, for example
[23:22] <knome> only 20-25% people said the default office/media apps satisfy their needs
[23:22] <knome> ok ok, the office stuff has changed now
[23:22] <knome> but wondering about the media part
[23:22] <knome> maybe that's something we should dig deeper into
[23:22] <pleia2> I haven't looked at the results
[23:23] <pleia2> the media stuff is interesting, I also don't use defaults
[23:23] <knome> i'm the odd bird, but i actually do..
[23:23] <knome> i only use vlc when parole fails to play a dvd
[23:23] <pleia2> well, I'd jusually say I'm odd so I don't do what normal people do with xubuntu
[23:23] <knome> jusually :D
[23:23] <pleia2> but in the case of the media player, I agree that *you* are odd ;D
[23:23] <knome> yep
[23:24] <knome> but otoh, i would say i don't really use gmb as-is
[23:24] <pleia2> it's just hard because vlc doesn't really work for us
[23:24] <knome> i've hacked in a lot of custom stuff
[23:24] <knome> i know
[23:24] <knome> but parole is great
[23:24] <knome> i'm happy with it, really
[23:24] <pleia2> I love vlc, parole never plays things I want it to play by default
[23:24] <pleia2> I think vlc ships with a bunch of codecs or something
[23:24] <knome> if i could only use parole or vlc, i'd pick parole
[23:24] <pleia2> I wouldn't
[23:24] <knome> because i can watch the rest of the stuff elsewhere
[23:25] <knome> i know
[23:25] <pleia2> elsewhere?
[23:25] <knome> i do hope that parole improves over time
[23:25] <knome> like ps3
[23:25] <pleia2> ah
[23:25] <knome> i know that's not a real solution, but just to prove i would be happy without vlc
[23:26] <knome> so...
[23:26] <knome> another question about the survey results is if we want to publish all the data
[23:26] <pleia2> I think we did say that the data would be available to the xubuntu team
[23:26] <pleia2> I can't remember exact wording though
[23:26] <knome> i'm thinking we should make some kind of report available in static.x.o
[23:27] <knome> like, a very general, anonymous one
[23:27] <pleia2> yeah
[23:27] <knome> then maybe a blog article highlighting some of the interesting finds
[23:27]  * pleia2 nods
[23:28] <knome> so i know we already discussed it for some time, but would you have some time to over it nowish?
[23:37] <pleia2> no, I have to go grocery shopping now
[23:37] <knome> aha
[23:37] <knome> have fun there then :)
[23:38] <pleia2> haha
[23:38] <pleia2> no food in my home post travel
[23:38] <knome> heh
[23:38] <pleia2> anwyay, bbiab
[23:38] <knome> no surprise
[23:38] <knome> oki