[00:46] Unit193: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6wjZFXVZU&feature=youtu.be [00:46] cool [01:36] back [01:45] hey micahg [01:45] hi bluesabre [01:45] how's it going? [01:46] ok, trying to finish up the reviews quickly [01:46] thanks for the blueman upload [01:46] np [01:47] been home all day, in front of my computer for 14 hours so far [01:47] might be time for a break [01:47] wow, I haven't been that fortunate :) [01:48] I'd say I haven't been that fortunate either, considering everything else I could have been doing ;) [02:05] micahg, good luck with the stuff and please remember to update the work items once you complete them [02:05] be back tomorrow [02:05] nighty [02:52] night all [02:53] hello [02:54] does xubuntu use systemd? [02:55] We're using whichever init system Ubuntu is [02:55] so, for 14.04, no; for 15.10, yes [02:56] * micahg didn't realize before that comments on MRs now need to be saved... [02:57] micahg: thanks thats good to know [03:13] i thought ubuntu had systemd for a few years [03:16] in the repo, not as default init [03:16] ah ok [03:17] well im gona have to try out xubuntu i think [03:17] it has a nice balance between functional and keeping out of the way IMHO [03:18] im originally a Debian user [03:18] im used to building up a custom system [03:18] but im fed up with that and just want to get to work on my projects these days [03:29] two review down, one to go [03:29] s/review/reviews/ [03:29] micahg meant: "two reviews down, one to go" [03:30] what are you reviewing [03:30] Merge requests to start building a xubuntu core image [03:30] ah ok [03:31] so lots to do then [03:32] yeah, I have a backlog about a mile long ;) [03:33] result is worth it [03:34] oh, I don't have much with producing Xubuntu itself anymore unfortunately, here and there I help with uploads and review and am an avid user, here's the wiki with project leads listed, they do a lot more than I do for Xubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Contact, there are many others that help as well [03:36] every bit counts though [03:40] dam i should get some sleep its way late [04:12] ok, reviews done [04:24] micahg: Thanks! [04:24] you're welcome [05:43] bluesabre: weeeeeird fix for parole dying on quitting, maybe the same is true for gmusicbrowser (which started to do that last cycle) [05:43] bluesabre: anyway, still good you found it and all [05:43] huge thumbs up for that [05:43] * ochosi is off for work [08:46] knome, saw your ping in the logs [08:46] I'll test it tonight [09:52] morning all [09:54] knome: I have one more request for the tracker (may or may not be related)... can we show historical data for image sizes? [09:55] current releases and running dev cycle [09:55] unless there is already a place that does that, ofc [10:01] bluesabre, where do i get that data? [10:03] micahg, thanks! did you have time to peek at the packageset issue? [10:04] hey knome [10:04] hey bluesabre [10:06] um, hey knome [10:06] :D :D [10:06] says he reluctacntly [10:06] -c [10:09] * bluesabre doesn't know what micahg did [10:09] Unit193: do you know what micahg reviewed? :P [10:10] Unit193, and what effects that has on our blueprints... [10:15] found the mps on the dev blueprint (where I should have looked) [10:15] https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core/+merge/267879 [10:15] https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-core/+merge/267880 [10:15] https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core/+merge/268167 [10:16] sounds like Unit193 only needs to make a few changes [10:16] Unit193, do you have a clear idea where to go next with these? [10:16] so that's good [10:18] knome: as for image data, could potentially parse cdimage... though I can imagine that to be crap [10:22] yes, that's the "obvious" way [10:23] but of course, if there was a more elegant way... [10:23] at least the path is always same [10:24] btw, we should poke people to change our target size [10:24] bluesabre, would you like to do that on -release? [10:24] I can do that [10:25] what target size do we want to request? [10:25] (we're currently over 1G) [10:25] i don't think it matters too much, i was thinking whether 1.5G is an insane target (since there aren't really devices of that size) [10:25] if we want to target a specific device, then it could be 2G [10:26] but it could just as well be 1.5G... [10:26] as long as we don't get the warnings [10:26] i mean for the real target size we should likely have a discussion with the team [10:26] but i'd rather just dodge the bullets now ASAP [10:27] brb [10:30] actually, bbiab [10:50] ok, back [11:30] gotta head to work, bbl [16:39] didn't notice change in icons on logout dialogue [16:40] or rather - didn't before - have now or I'd not have commented :D [18:39] hey cyphermox, we'll need an upload for ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu - i've also merged ubuntu-specific stuff there, so they'll want it too :) [18:46] yup, I told GunnarHj I'd do an upload today, still mean to [18:46] thanks! [18:46] just getting stuff together for other things before I can get to the slideshow [19:02] knome: apparently harald sitter uploaded it an hour ago. [19:02] oh great! [19:03] nice guy, good work [19:26] knome: are we supposed to have ubuntu login icons? [19:26] flocculant, what on earth ARE "ubuntu login icons" ? [19:27] hang on [19:28] http://i.imgur.com/PE73gtQ.png [19:29] they've turned up recently as far as I can tell [19:29] flocculant, used by default? [19:29] also don't remember ubuntu mono either [19:29] seems so for the logout dialogue [19:29] aha [19:30] well for your question, no, i don't think we are supposed to have them [19:30] maybe bluesabre can fix that [19:30] O:) [19:30] http://i.imgur.com/HCs0l3h.png [19:32] heh. [19:32] that's not the worst thing, but it's not very pretty either.. [19:32] yep [19:32] dependency of adwaita I think [19:32] http://paste.ubuntu.com/12316063/ [19:33] o.O [19:33] why is THAT even in our task? [19:34] oh hang on ... [19:34] that might be from me not live :D [19:34] no, the task says xubuntu-desktop [19:34] but maybe it's because it's gnome default [19:34] maybe that is a dependency for something else we want to have [19:36] adwaita? [19:36] mm. [19:37] evince-gtk is one [19:37] right [19:37] bit mank - don't much like the 'zz' on hibernate [19:38] not that I see that anywhere but in vm :p [19:38] heh [19:44] thought I was seeing things for a minute tbh :) [19:44] I guess if that's the worse thing we need to worry about atm then we're not doing too badly [19:45] we're definitely doing pretty good [19:45] yep [19:45] another bug fix released thanks to bluesabre and cyphermox [19:45] and with that, another work item too [19:46] and since micah reviewed the patches yesterday, one item done and three more can progress [19:46] and one of yours might get unblocked soon [19:46] yep - been watching those discussions ;) [19:46] * knome has been updating the blueprints [19:47] :) [19:47] should see feh soon? [19:47] next build [19:48] \o/ [19:48] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1437180/comments/13 [19:48] Launchpad bug 1437180 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Medium,Fix released] [19:50] btw, did you have anything specific you wanted us to correlate in the survey results? [19:50] iirc was mostly interested in office/media [19:50] they were both around 20-25% [19:50] but office was with abiword and gnumeric [19:51] yes [19:51] ~25% used defaults? [19:51] assuming so [19:51] yep [19:52] but what i was actually asking [19:52] is if you wanted me to correlate that with something [19:52] /usr/lib/gcc is enormously bigger in wily than trusty [19:52] eg. there was ~70% percent who said they're power users [19:53] mmm [19:53] not sure [19:53] so should we check how much of the *non-power-users* were happy with the default selection? [19:53] I'd say so - yes [19:53] heh, yeah... [19:53] so if you have other similar correlations you'd like to see - just tell me and i'll dig that information up [19:53] as long as our baseline is what I assume - power user will go meh and find/install what they want [19:54] yep [19:54] I think to my mind - the correlations we should work from as a base are the non-power user [19:54] so get all results with only non-power-users? [19:54] 33MB in trusty, 410 in wily :p [19:55] also, what about the small amount that told others maintain their computer? [19:55] should we also leave them out? [19:55] I would [19:55] ok [19:55] I would assume that 'they' are power users [19:55] at least more powered up than those repsonding :) [19:58] not that I've any idea what we'd do if we decided something about gmb [19:58] heh [19:59] media is more than just gmb though [20:00] of course [20:01] should I report the icon issue so there's something as a record? [20:02] sure [20:02] I'll do it from the daily - no fighting with apport and ppa's then :p [20:03] heh [20:03] mmm - what package shall I report it against? [20:03] no idea... [20:03] are they used after installing as well? [20:03] or just at installation? [20:04] not sure - I'll install it [20:04] :) [20:04] if only at installation, then probably ubiquity [20:04] mostly just been checking the image works lately [20:06] that said I do see the same on my machine too [20:06] but that's had all sorts done and installed on it [20:14] knome: nope - installed as well [20:15] mhm [20:15] sounds like packaging [20:15] or sth like that [20:15] xubuntu-artwork? :P [20:15] ok [20:16] drums fingers waiting for launchpad ... [20:22] bug 1493547 [20:22] bug 1493547 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Login icon set used for dialogue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1493547 [20:31] bluesabre: ^^ [20:31] I shall see what gets said in the morning [20:31] night [20:33] flocculant: That it's actually elementary Xfce. :D [20:34] Night though. [21:46] slickymaster, if you link to the PDFs from each page, then you can't really do the paragraph [21:47] can't a sort of a header, or footer, note be added to the xml knome? [21:47] sure, we can do the links in the header or footer, but there are visual issues with that [21:48] in the header, it wouldn't look very good with a long text [21:48] and in the footer area we already have the navigation icons [21:48] would it appear before or after that? [21:48] and in the footer, i think it's relatively hidden... [21:49] we don't even know how many people would rather use a PDF than the html version [21:50] yeah, I'm not taking the aesthetics aspect of the solution in consideration [21:51] the footer option is to forget, due to the navigation icons [21:51] also, if people link to a specific section to the docs, why couldn't the mention there is a PDF version available as well? [21:52] when i point people to the docs, i mention they are also available from the menu [21:52] and if they go to the menu and see the docs, they will end up on the front page with the PDF mention [21:53] or in other words, are we really overthinking the possibility that somebody might "miss out" on the PDF? [21:54] no the idea was to give people the chance of getting 'partial' PDFs id wanted [21:54] no, you can't get a partial PDF [21:54] it would always be the full PDF [21:54] unless we started exporting per-chapter PDF's but ugh, what a mess [21:54] hmm, in that case I misunderstood it [21:55] being that the case, there's no need to discuss it [21:55] krytarik, ha! i win! [21:56] lol [21:57] late evening all [21:57] hello ochosi [21:57] flocculant: yeah, those themes really shouldn't be installed. we don't need them at all [21:57] hi ochosi [21:57] ochosi, has the baby sang "i dress up in women's clothing, like my dear pa-pa" yet? [21:58] or - have you sang that to the baby :P [21:58] sung? [21:59] whateva [22:00] :) [22:00] not yet [22:01] aha! that does imply that you will sing it together [22:01] ...and that implies you are dressing up in women's clothing [22:02] ofc [22:03] ok, now that this discussion is publicly logged and archived, let's move on... [22:03] ineed [22:03] indeed [22:03] what do youneed? [22:04] i like how the tracker looks [22:04] good progress [22:04] yep [22:04] totally [22:04] now if only Unit193 got his act together and did the changes micahg asked in his reviews [22:04] :> [22:05] yeah, where's that one hiding i wonder... [22:05] then bluesabre could help Unit193 with the sponsoring stuff and then they could ask flocculant to test the core ISO [22:05] and maybe krytarik could help with updating his bits and also prod slickymaster to help with testing [22:05] so pleia2 could write a blog article about it [22:06] nice dependency chain [22:06] btw knome we still have the FAQ content to think about [22:06] btw, new greybird pull request [22:06] ochosi, and nice pinging! :P [22:06] hehe [22:06] slickymaster, yeah... [22:07] evening all [22:07] * knome is the summoner [22:07] hey bluesabre [22:08] knome: please check that one out, it looks very promising [22:08] https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/pull/104 [22:08] * knome checks [22:10] if you can, pls test [22:10] it's fairly easy, just clone to $somedir, then create ~/.themes/Greybird-a11y and ln -s $somedir/xfwm4 to Greybird-a11y [22:10] i'll put that on my "mental" list for later this week [22:10] oh [22:11] i'll likely merge it today [22:11] haha [22:11] ok [22:11] i don't have many free evenings/hours [22:11] so i have to be fairly efficient if i wanna get that last workitem done [22:11] it looks fine to me in the github diff [22:11] in context: http://i.imgur.com/PFFc2vR.png [22:12] yep [22:12] knome: no, not yet, that's a little more complicated I htink [22:13] micahg, what are you referring to? [22:13] packageset issue [22:13] ok [22:14] well frankly we should contact whoever pulled in orion to kubuntu and ask them to "return" it to us [22:14] or we can also kick it out of shimmer themes [22:14] it's not maintained anymore (by us, or at all, afaik [22:15] so there are some easy solutions [22:16] what was the package through which it got pulled to kubuntu again? [22:16] or the chain [22:17] that's not it, the logic around kubuntu is still special cased, where I think it maybe shouldn't be anymore, I still need to dig into it [22:18] right, but can't we just ask nicely? [22:18] i mean there must be a responsible person [22:18] i could ask a kubuntu person if i had the details... [22:19] bluesabre: would you be ok with adding another xfwm4 theme to the greybird build? we would need Greybird-a11y to show up as a separate xfwm4 theme like Greybird_compact [22:19] that would be nice of us, now that we actually have such [22:20] ochosi: that's easy to do [22:21] as long as you give me the new theme before thursday ;) [22:21] bluesabre, notice that you might need sponsoring :P [22:22] bluesabre: i can finalize this now [22:22] yay [22:22] knome: ah, good point [22:22] so today would be good [22:22] then micahg might be able to sponsor for me soon [22:25] ochosi: the upstream logout icon caught flocculant off guard since its orange: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1493547 [22:25] Launchpad bug 1493547 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Login icon set used for dialogue" [Undecided,New] [22:25] hehe [22:25] it's a nice one, i personally like it [22:25] but the restart one looks a bit dusty next to it [22:25] i'll probably have to redo that one for 16.04 [22:28] bluesabre: would i create much work for you if i renamed the xfwm4_compact folder to xfwm4-compact? [22:29] no idea why i ever used an underscore there [22:29] ochosi: go ahead [22:29] k, thanks [22:29] ochosi, with all of your dashitis, good variety... [22:31] hey, i love my dash-itis [22:35] bluesabre: ok, it's all merged [22:35] wanna take a brief look before i tag a new release? [22:35] ochosi: checking it [22:35] ty [22:36] ochosi: yeah, that should be fine [22:37] just gotta update wily and daily packaging [22:37] i was able to close the currently oldest greybird issue \o/ [22:37] (single px borders are unusable for resizing) [22:38] woot [22:38] btw, tagging elementary-xfce was a bit superfluous unless we change our policy there to always tag a new release when we upload [22:39] so far we basically just pushed snapshots of it [22:39] and i released independently [22:39] but yeah, it's a sort of constant rolling release thingy [22:40] ochosi: you said to tag a new release [22:40] oh, i meant of xubuntu-artwork :> [22:41] but nvm, i really have no idea when it would be sane to tag a new icon theme release [22:42] :D [22:42] +icon, +release number [22:42] :D [22:42] ;) [22:44] bluesabre: ok, so tagging greybird now... [22:44] unless you needed anything else there [22:47] ochosi: go ahead [22:48] there you go: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v1.6.2 [22:48] woot [22:49] knome: and another workitem done [22:49] and yay, artwork is the first blueprint to be totally done [22:49] :) [22:49] it's often been like that [22:49] ofc [22:50] we're the most efficient team ; [22:50] ) [22:50] * knome high fives ochosi [22:50] * ochosi high fives back [22:50] oops, i missed [22:50] hope that didn't hurt your nose too much [22:50] the silliest thing is when high fives and "gang greetings" go wrong [22:51] it looks so silly and embarrassing at the same time [22:51] ochosi: so, what do you want the theme to be called? [22:51] greybird-a11y? [22:51] bluesabre, seans-secret-lab [22:51] knome: OK [22:51] hmm [22:51] i thought we would call it that [22:51] but if you have a friendlier name in mind, i don't mind [22:51] greybird-accessibility isn't bad either [22:51] yeah [22:52] a11y is not a very accessible shorthand [22:52] grostrich? [22:52] because really, is it accessible to say "a11y" [22:52] heh, yes [22:52] gal-blatter-os [22:52] bluesabre: i like that :D [22:53] but let's go with Greybird-accessiblity ;) [22:53] -blity?! [22:53] noess [22:53] a11y might be better [22:53] r not [22:54] * bluesabre doesn't know [22:54] ok ok, accessibility [22:54] accessibility it is [22:54] yeah, it's longer but more readable [22:54] assessability [22:54] you don't usually look at that list for too long [22:54] imo we should add a tab to the accessibility dialog "appearance" [22:54] and then offer a few shortcuts there [22:55] add that as a work item for 16.04 [22:55] not many told they use the a11y features of xubuntu btw [22:55] yeah [22:55] in a way that's awesome that they told they do [22:56] because i don't even know that those features are! [22:56] *what [22:56] yeah [22:58] are the survey results available? [22:58] yes and no [22:58] ok [22:58] no public announcement is made yet [22:58] will wait [22:58] :D [22:59] but if you want, i can link you to the google doc [22:59] i'll be doing the analysis for the data some day this week most likely [22:59] or at latest next week [22:59] cool [23:00] alrighty folks [23:01] this was a quick visit, but i gotta head to bed now [23:01] good night :) [23:01] night ochosi [23:01] night y'all and ttyl ;) [23:02] nighty night ocx [23:02]