[04:55] good morning [05:28] Good morning [05:31] hey pitti, how are you? [05:31] didrocks: okay, didn't sleep well (haven't in the whole last week, not sure why) [05:32] didrocks: how are you? still did some celebrations after Julie returned? [05:33] pitti: nothing fancy: just eating some macarons with a coffee and relaxing :) [05:33] I hope your sleep depradation issue will get fixed soon! === hikiko-lpt is now known as hikiko [06:05] hello :) [06:06] hey hikiko, how are you? [06:23] hi didrocks :) happy birthday! [06:23] I am good, you? [06:23] back from holidays.. :) [06:24] hikiko: excellent! Thanks again ;) How were your holidays? [06:26] great! :D [06:27] I was in Paris (@my brother) but I forgot you live there to say a hello :) [06:28] hikiko: oh, I moved quite some years ago (end of 2010) to Lyon, so no worry ;) [06:28] haha :) my brother was at Lyon before Paris... I love Lyon too [06:28] * hikiko loves France in general [06:29] hope you had a nice time there! [06:29] Paris is great for tourism (a little bit less great for living IMHO) [06:29] +1 [07:24] good morning! [07:26] hey larsu, how are things? [07:28] didrocks: great thanks! And for you? Did you have a nice birthday weekend? [07:28] larsu: nothing fancy, mostly alone and hacking, which is fine :p [07:28] good morning desktopers! [07:29] didrocks: however you prefer it! [07:29] seb128: who are you? Can't remember seeing you in this channel [07:29] re seb128 :) [07:29] seb128: :P Welcome back! Are you relaxed from the vacation? [07:30] hey larsu! I'm good thanks, how are you? [07:30] very much relaxed [07:30] being 2 weeks outside walking for the most part is a good change ;-) [07:31] slightly tired today though, I watched a bit of the US open match this night [07:31] it was rain delayed and started at 1am [07:31] went to bed at 3am... [07:32] ça va seb128, bienvenue retour ! === nudtrobert1 is now known as nudtrobert [07:33] seb128: ah, vous êtes allé randonée ? [07:33] pitti, bien rentré merci ;-) [07:33] "randonnée" [07:34] pitti, oui, en Ecosse, on a fait le west highland way (7j, 150km) et l'île de Skye [07:34] * pitti s'entraîne les nouveaux mots du leçon français dernier [07:36] seb128: sounds good :) I'm great as well thanks. I have internet now, can you believe it? [07:36] morning pitti! [07:37] larsu, that sounds like an useful thing to have ;-) [07:37] indeed [07:38] brb, going to get something to eat, back from holidays and empty fridge [07:43] hey larsu, guten Morgen! yay web [07:43] oh yeah [07:58] * didrocks is going to catch his flight. Working offline meanwhile (maybe will popup onlinefrom the airport). ttyl guys! [07:58] hey ho [07:58] hey seb128, nice holiday? [07:58] hey and see you willcooke :) [07:58] see ya didrocks - have fun [07:58] thx! [08:02] morning willcooke! [08:03] HEY TEAM [08:03] hi larsu Laney [08:04] hi Laney! [08:04] yo [08:04] what's up? === Chipaca` is now known as Chipaca [08:06] not much :) [08:06] you? [08:09] hey willcooke Laney [08:09] willcooke, excellent ones, thanks ;-) [08:10] seb128: !!! [08:10] but almost spent an extra night in Glasgow, learnt about the "no show" rule, stupid airlines [08:10] were the scots kind to you? [08:10] they cancelled my return ticket because I didn't take the plane there [08:10] ouch [08:10] (since I was in London and took the train instead) [08:10] and they don't tell you about it [08:11] online/machine checkin doesn't work and at the counter they say "oh, you didn't show on the flight some weeks ago, we cancelled the ticket you paid for, need to pay again, let me see what's the price today" [08:11] seb128: ya ... they do this because you could end up with cheaper flights this way [08:11] as soon as you don't show to one flight of your booking, they cancel the rest [08:11] larsu, well not my problem if they are stupid enough to sell A+B for less than B [08:12] I knew about legs on one flight [08:12] I didn't know that impacted return as well [08:12] well, googling shows that apparently the EU was to ban them from doing that [08:12] really? wow [08:13] it makes sense: imagine a big conference in city A, and lots of people from city B want to go there [08:13] naturally return trips from B -> A will be expensive [08:13] but not trips from A -> B [08:13] so people could just buy the reverse and no-show for the flights to B [08:13] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20140203IPR34618/html/Parliament-pushes-for-enforceable-air-passenger-rights [08:14] interesting [08:14] https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forums/europe-western-europe/topics/eu-changes-to-airlines-no-show-policies?page=1#post_21226843 [08:15] larsu, I fail to understand the logic in what you describe [08:15] if there is more demand prices are higher, that's ok [08:15] A->B could be 10€ [08:16] and B->A 100€ [08:16] and whole trip 110€ [08:16] if I pay 110€ and decide to use only the return the airline wins 10€ over if I had taken only the return costing 100€ [08:16] no. The problem is that all people want to go to A on the same date (B->A expensive) and leave on the same date a week later or so (A->B) [08:16] the reverse will be very cheap on those days [08:17] why? [08:17] if there is lot of demand price will increase [08:17] prices are not constant [08:17] ah, you mean price the return differently from the way there? [08:17] yes [08:18] what I just say [08:18] make the way there 10€ and the return 100€ [08:18] right, just making sure I understood you right [08:18] if that's what the demand is [08:18] that's a good point. I guess they offer rebates if you take a return trip? [08:18] not sure [08:19] well, that's their issue [08:20] indeed [08:20] they shouldn't be allowed to sell something to cancel it just because you had an issue and already missed to take advantage of half of it [08:20] like what difference if I was in the plane or not? [08:20] none [08:20] they used less food and a bit less fuel by me not being there [08:20] so it's a win for them [08:20] but their argument still holds for multi-stop flights in one direction [08:20] and they punish me over it [08:20] no it doesn't? [08:21] you pay for a seat, what difference does it make if you actually sit on it? [08:21] Munich -> Brussels -> New York is a cheaper ticket than Munich -> New York (because it's less convenient) [08:22] so if I'm in Brussels, I could just get the cheaper ticket from Munich on no-show on the first flight [08:22] I could book 2 seats for myself just because I don't like having people sitting next to me [08:22] well, it's their issue if they sell A+B to less than B [08:22] nobody force them to do that [08:22] no, pricing is not based on cost [08:22] but on value for the buyer [08:23] it's a stupid system their create themself [08:23] they could base it on cost [08:23] like they create more annoying trips to be able to sell the less annoying ones for less [08:24] but then all prices would go up a lot [08:24] and planes wouldn't be used as efficiently [08:24] why? [08:24] cost for them is the same [08:24] can you afford a direct flight to San Francisco from Europe? [08:24] if everything was going up then they would just increase their margins [08:25] that's not a change of distribution [08:25] a change of distribution would mean lowering some options to increase some others [08:25] you'd basically only have the cost of direct flights [08:25] it doesn't make sense to me [08:25] and you couldn't leverage the fact that many people want to cross the atlantic (big, filled planes) but have different desitinations in the US (smaller, filled planes) [08:25] you have the direct flight + a small leg [08:26] how is that less expensive that the direct flight alone [08:26] you can shove more people into the transatlantic [08:26] well, maybe there would be less small flights and more people would take the train to go to the big airport [08:26] not really [08:27] this is hard to explain here. Let's do it over some beer at the sprint ;) [08:28] if 1000 persons want to go from Germany to N-Y on a day and if there was 1 plane in frankfurt only, people would take train to frankfort [08:28] and the 1 plane would still be full [08:28] but yeah, I can understand your logic with legs [08:28] I don't understand the logic of how that impacts return [08:28] people want to fly all the way though :) [08:28] yeah, you might be right about returns [08:28] I could have booked a return on any day [08:28] indeed [08:29] in fact I didn't do it on the same day [08:29] did you pay a lot more now? [08:29] we had ticket going on friday and return on sunday [08:29] no, I think it was about the same price [08:29] they made me pay £50 [08:30] well, anyway, I learnt something [08:31] :) [08:31] and I hope EU ban them from those abuse ;-) [08:32] one thing they have no excuse on is that they send you the "do your online checkin" email and don't tell you the ticket is not valid anymore [08:32] then the online checkin tells "need to do checkin at the airport" [08:32] still not stating why [08:32] haha srsly? That's really bad [08:32] yes... [08:32] even the self checkin machines at the airport [08:33] in fact, they should send you a "you didn't show up, so your other tickets are invalid, too" email [08:33] they recognize the passport and show you your flight, etc [08:33] yes, they should have :-/ [08:33] ya this is bad [08:33] sorry this happened to you :/ [08:33] no worry, it was not big inconvenience [08:33] it took 10 minutes arguing at the desk [08:33] and an extra £50 [08:33] which is ok [08:33] and 50 pounds :) [08:33] right [08:34] I was wondering what to do if the only seats left would have been £300 ones [08:34] anyway [08:34] holidays were great otherwise [08:35] walking for like 6 to 8 hours a day is a good change [08:35] but I'm happy to be back after 15 days :-) [08:35] good to have you back! [08:35] (sorry everyone for spamming the channel with airline discussions ;-) [08:36] * seb128 is catching up on emails [08:37] how were things here recently? any exciting news? [08:37] seb128, once you're caught up, can we talk about: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-touch-meta/+bug/1491753 [08:37] Ubuntu bug 1491753 in ubuntu-touch-meta (Ubuntu) "Installing 'ubuntu-desktop-next' makes the system (kernel in fact) unbootable." [Critical,New] [08:38] willcooke, I discussed that with dholbach some weeks before my holidays [08:38] oh cool [08:38] unsure how to fix it/what to do [08:38] that package is not meant to be installed on deb based systems :-/ [08:39] seb128: not really. scrollbars were acked, headerbars are being reviewed (next cycle probably). lots of small fixes from my side (notify-osd is not blurry on hidpi anymore!) [08:39] larsu, nice :-) [08:39] and theme fixes and stuff [08:39] now working on the cities things [08:39] * larsu is writing tests right now [08:39] cities? [08:39] seb128, let's talk though the options later [08:39] willcooke, k [08:40] seb128: you know how selecting the city you're in in the time&date panel is really buggy? [08:40] also, it depends on gtk, which we want to get rid of on the phone [08:40] speaking about u-c-c or touch? [08:40] so I'm splitting up libtimezonemap [08:40] seb128: both actually [08:40] cool [08:41] also making that cities1500.txt file that we're installing and parsing every time much smaller [08:41] and putting it as a resource into the library [08:41] should be much ... (sorry) ... snappier [08:41] smaller? [08:41] Laney: ya. throwing out lots of information we don't need and gzipping it [08:42] you should keep it easy to update that from geonames.org [08:42] it is [08:42] just copy the file over and the build system will compile it and link it into the library [08:42] ok [08:42] * larsu thought about that [08:42] * Laney fluffles larsu's hair [08:43] well done my child [08:43] * larsu grins contently [08:53] hey Laney, had a good weekend? [09:01] hey pitti [09:01] it was good thanks - played on the PS4 a bit, did some cooking, went to a chilli farm for pick your own (hot hot hot) & then for ice cream \o/ [09:01] how about you? [09:08] Laney: quite nice too -- some household stuff and building present for my father in law's 60th bday next weekend, and yesterday we did a nice long hike [09:08] and we baked onion cake and drank "Federweisser", old tradition :) [09:10] oh nice, just googled this [09:10] looks tasty === Chipaca is now known as Chipakeitor [09:10] it's a veeery young wine, almost no alcohol yet and very sweet [09:10] and yummy :) === Chipakeitor is now known as __chip__ === __chip__ is now known as Chipaca [09:11] do you just buy grape juice from the shop? [09:12] * Laney is tempted to try ;) [09:16] Laney: no, it comes ready-made in bottles [09:16] ah, I thought you made it [09:16] Laney: there's lots of yeast in it, so it's not just grape juice [09:16] yeah [09:17] it's just impossible to bring to a conference; the bottles aren't airtight (they'd explode otherwise), so they only have a very light lid [09:18] so it is still fermenting when you buy it? [09:18] yes; these days it's still very young, and after a few weeks it ferments to some more "mature" wine (less sweet, more sour/more alcohol) [09:21] * Laney nods [09:30] * didrocks luckily had no luggage, the AF line was crazy :p [09:32] didrocks: oû vas-tu ? [09:32] "où" [09:32] pitti: amsterdam [09:32] (back on wednesday, the conf is only tonight and tomorrow) [09:34] go to the cat boat [09:34] doooo it [09:34] cat boat? :p [09:35] Poezenboot [09:36] just next to the conference actually [09:36] well, rather, hotel [09:36] :D [09:36] (the hotel is 2km away from the conference, I did cut the price in half compared to what the new BTS was proposing) [09:36] but the other hotel was 50m away :p [09:38] ah, boarding, see you later guys! [10:01] Trevinho: looks like scrollbars are a bit messed up in webkit stuff [10:01] e.g. devhelp [10:19] hey Laney pitti [10:20] hey darkxst, how are you? [10:20] good, but it was a bit warm today! 23C [10:25] Laney, or pitti, can you take a look at bug 1479907 this week, i'd like to get it uploaded before final beta freeze if possible [10:25] bug 1479907 in Ubuntu GNOME "[Ffe] Support installing Language packs from gnome-control-center" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1479907 === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [12:14] Laney: Mh I'll check it [12:17] darkxst: done [12:17] Trevinho: thanks! [12:21] Laney, what is done? the ffe? [12:23] darkxst: yes, the thing you asked for [12:26] Laney, ok, I see, took a while for the comment to show up [12:35] Laney, replied [12:44] Laney, thanks for handling that whoopsie/system-image bug while I was away! [12:46] seb128: np! [12:46] took ages in the end [12:46] renameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee [12:47] yeah :-/ [12:48] let's see if QA validates it [12:49] Laney, oh, yeah ... beer++ the next sprint we meet, thanks for doing my work :) [12:56] ogra_: I'll give you the next hard bug I get :P [12:57] hah === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [13:00] seb128: I'm working on it, all the off tests seem to of worked I'm now turning it back on to see if the crash gets uploaded or not [13:01] \o/ [13:02] davmor2, great [13:08] Laney: so... Webkitgtk is quite buggy with ambiance as well, but I think that for them I can add a special case. [13:08] Laney: do you know if there's any bug upstream related to OSB? [13:10] Trevinho: I think so but I don't have one handy [13:10] Laney: ok, is that still in bugzilla, right? [13:10] yes [13:10] maybe go ask #webkitgtk+ [13:10] ok, I'll check for that, so we can track if they fix [13:14] * larsu learns that there's also a San Francisco in Cordoba, Argentinia [13:14] probably we want to sort cities by size as well :) [13:16] larsu, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeAndDate#Phone has some details [13:16] like " In addition, to avoid duplication, a suburb (PPLX) should not be included in search results whenever a larger settlement (PPL, PPLA, PPLC) that has the same time zone is present in the same search results" [13:17] seb128: thanks, I've read that and have been meaning to talk to mpt about it [13:17] there's not a lot of PPLX in the data set [13:17] yw! [13:17] * larsu is currently simply ignoring them [13:18] I think it resolved some of the "too many Berlin" issue [13:18] k [13:18] * larsu checks [13:19] larsu, it was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1454195 [13:19] Ubuntu bug 1454195 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Time zone search for "Berlin" returns many suburbs of Berlin" [Low,Triaged] [13:19] ah, that one [13:19] yes, it solves that [13:19] great [13:50] Mh Laney I've like the impression that these webkit scrollbars can't have custom theming... https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/platform/gtk/ScrollbarThemeGtk.cpp?rev=186680#L166 (I don't see how they can inherit the parent widget path, but... larsu, am I wrong?) [13:51] Trevinho: I don't know to be honest... [13:52] No worries... But they seem like custom widgets, and they didn't include any special class for these... So I've no clue how I can catch them [13:53] nor a name... [13:53] is adwaita doing it? [13:53] * Trevinho has to patch it -_- [13:54] larsu: well, adwaita is not using special theming, as it's always the same size... [13:54] Although webkit is bugged even using adwaita [13:54] :/ [13:54] so, I wanted to make scrollbars for webkit opaque and fat in any case [13:58] Laney: I've pushed the first version of this code to github (larsu/geonames) and I'd like to keep debian/ out of the upstream - should I create a bzr packaging branch or how does this work? [14:04] desrt: around? Would appreciate a review of what I've got so far [14:09] larsu: not this week please :) [14:10] sure [14:29] Trevinho: suggest you check with upstream (try kov / berto as a first point) [14:35] larsu: it should probably be on launchpad unless you want to be the only one who can do changes [14:36] and both can be git now [14:36] you can have debian/ as another branch in there (branched off the upstream tag) [14:42] Laney: ok, thanks [14:57] willcooke, https://ufuntu.wordpress.com/category/compiz-introduction-and-demo/ done, but my english suck a little... if you have any corrections/advices they are welcome! [14:59] hikiko, awesome! Thank you! I will have a read now [15:00] Laney: ah thanks. Is launchpad git Good Enough now? [15:00] hikiko, Embedded video doesn't work for me.. "Playback on other websites has been disabled by the video owner" [15:00] larsu: you can put things in and get them out, and also it has merge proposals [15:00] Laney: fair enough, let me try it [15:01] must be the youtube settings for the video, I ll fix it now [15:01] I doubt any of the CI tooling is hooked up though [15:01] (might be wrong) [15:01] Laney: I do actually want changes to go through me right now [15:01] but I can do that on lp as well, no? [15:01] you'll presumably make a team to own it [15:08] Laney: https://launchpad.net/geonames [15:08] (H) [15:09] I guess now I need to write a debian directory :( [15:12] larsu, just copy one over from an similar project (recent if possible) [15:12] larsu, I can do that debian/ dir part for you if you prefer [15:12] seb128: yeah of course :) [15:13] I'll appreciate a review once I'm done [15:15] sure, just give me a ping [15:31] hikiko, confirmed fixed :) [15:32] cool :) [15:53] Trevinho, larsu - for OSBs can we control the width in both the active and inactive modes (where the SB has mouse over or not) [15:53] willcooke: yeah [15:54] willcooke: although, in order not to make the terminal to resize, we need to keep the actual scrollbar size the same... Then we can show them differently [15:54] Trevinho, oki good. I'm just upgrading my 15.10 machine now, so I might be a bit behind, but right now I'm having all sorts of problems getting hold of the scroll bar with my trackpad [15:55] willcooke: currently it's using 10px horizontally [15:55] we can increase it, but then content space will be reduced as well [15:56] it was maybe a mess to maintain, but the old design wasn't bad at all imho. [15:56] hrm, I think part of the problem is that they aren't expanding to the larger state on mouse over [15:56] might be something odd on my machine [15:57] ohh [15:57] mh, weird [15:57] it's just terminal [15:57] willcooke: is it on terminal [15:57] which I think you were fixing already [15:57] :D [15:57] willcooke: eh, that's the thing [15:57] willcooke: well, I could even change something else there... [15:58] but the thing is that it's not using a properly scrolled window, so it only gets the "hovering" state when the mouse is actually over the 10px dedicated to the OSB [15:58] we might change this by hacking the terminal though [15:58] I didn't do it as I didn't want to include too many changes, but I guess it's doable [15:58] dude [15:59] when does it become sensible to do the proper GTK work? [16:00] Laney, what do you mean? [16:00] to get terminal using the scrolled window [16:01] oh, so do the fixes in terminal, rather than trying to hack in support? Yes, that sounds like a better solution. How much work will it be? [16:01] cos right now it's unusable IMO [16:02] as of the recent fixes it expands (for me) when I hover at the edge [16:02] I wouldn't call it unusable [16:03] how can I try these fixes? [16:03] in wily [16:03] oh, so just update? [16:03] ya [16:03] sweet [16:03] thx Laney [16:04] 87% through a dist-upgrade [16:05] Fixing it upstream is not for this cycle, but it should be more maintainable in the long term IMO [16:06] rishi was working on this for terminal, no? [16:06] I've added it to the sprint agenda so we can talk about it and work out what's going on [16:06] ya [16:07] I guess it needs some more shoving to get over the line [16:08] Laney: where do I push the packaging branch? Into the same repository? [16:08] larsu: I guess a 'debian' branch of the same repo [16:08] k [16:11] Laney, seb128: https://git.launchpad.net/geonames?h=debian [16:12] your copyright file is false [16:12] misses the data/ [16:13] it's not usual to have a '-' in the library package name [16:13] should have a long description [16:13] larsu, Trevinho, Laney - yeah, terminal usability much improved after the update, thanks [16:13] and a .symbols file [16:13] other than that, looks good! :) [16:13] crazyness, 2h to register! [16:13] Laney: thanks! How do I specify CC-BY in the copyright file? [16:14] here you are following https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/ [16:15] didrocks, so the 17-21h is the registration slot? you got lucky, you did in half the allocated time :-) [16:15] seb128: it started before [16:16] but was already busy [16:16] So something like CC-BY-2.0 [16:19] Laney: I can't find the copyright holder for geonames.org ... is this enough? http://paste.ubuntu.com/12409539/ [16:19] or should I include a link as well> [16:19] ah, upstream-contact? [16:22] seb128: btw, I guess this country welcomed me showing its traditional weather condition :p [16:22] haha [16:22] it's back to blue sky here [16:22] it rains often but never for long ;-) [16:23] yeah, but the shower can be quite strong :p [16:23] and if you are under it, no escape! :) [16:23] my pant testifies… [16:24] utch [16:24] been near any canals yet? [16:24] watch out... [16:25]