[05:31] <lotuspsychje> good morning mates
[05:32] <TJ-> Morning
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: hey there
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> what you playin with today :p
[05:42] <TJ-> Well... fixed up the cryptsetup initramfs scripts to use a key-file, filed a bunch of bugs against lightdm, and currently trying to narrow down a regression in kernel bluetooth support  for some devices (since v3.2 ... so a lot to work back over)
[05:42] <lotuspsychje> cool
[05:42] <lotuspsychje> im testin out new enlightment :p
[05:44] <TJ-> I might take a look one of these days if I ever get chance. I'm really liking the improvements in KDE for 15.10
[05:45] <TJ-> Although I got really pissy at it requiring mysqld to be installed to support this Akonadi "search-everything-that-moves-with-thirty-plus-executables-loaded-at-session-start" mess! I kicked that lot off the PC :)
[05:45] <lotuspsychje> didnt test 15.10 yet
[05:45] <lotuspsychje> lol
[05:47] <TJ-> And finally solve the weirdest bug I've ever come across! I have Lubuntu/LXDE and Kubuntu desktops installed. Lubuntu pulls in Abiword. When the Plasma DE loads an instance of Abiword always started, with its Parent's PID = 1 (init). Been bugging me for 3/4 weeks
[05:48] <TJ-> It turns out abiword installs a DBus service for Telepathy Collaboration. When KDE session starts it launcheds kde-telepathy which somehow causes the abiword executable be launched and loading a blank document. Very annoying!
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> weird
[05:50] <lotuspsychje> i had some crashes on enlightment already too lol
[05:50] <lotuspsychje> after leftmouse opening applications
[05:51] <TJ-> Bug hunting can be fun; suffering bugs with no explanation can be very frustrating
[05:51] <TJ-> Especially if you can't easily run the process under control of the debugger
[05:52] <lotuspsychje> i find launchpad bugging bit confusing
[05:57] <TJ-> Do you? why is that?
[05:58] <lotuspsychje> all the info gathering and protocols i dont like very much
[05:59] <TJ-> I generally use common-sense with that. I usually report bugs directly rather than using ubuntu-bug/apport-bug
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> right
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> i like askbuntu solving better :p
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> simple and more specific
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> but for rough bugs, launchpad might be better
[09:06] <lotuspsychje> lol: http://news.softpedia.com/news/tutorial-for-microsoft-to-help-it-kill-linux-491638.shtml
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> SinisterDoor: welcome
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> emnz: welcome
[14:54] <emnz> ah nice
[14:54] <emnz> thx :)
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> emnz: ubuntu has grown big these days
[14:55] <emnz> how do u mean most popular? u mean linux in general?
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> so most user count worldwide is for ubuntu
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> no ubuntu
[14:55] <emnz> most popular linux desktop distro?
[14:55] <emnz> ok
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> no
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> most popular Os from all
[14:56] <emnz> O.O
[14:56] <emnz> how can that be, what about android and windows?
[14:56] <SinisterDoor> lol
[14:56] <emnz> enlighten me
[14:56] <emnz> im not up to speed these days xD
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> emnz: we also have phones now
[14:56] <SinisterDoor> yeah but they are android
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> SinisterDoor: no, ubuntu touch phones
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> !touch
[14:57] <SinisterDoor> -.-
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> i installed ubuntu touch on my nexus 7 also
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> running much safer then android
[14:58] <SinisterDoor> my nexus 6 doesn't support it.
[14:58] <SinisterDoor> ubuntu abandoned the project
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> read this guys
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/top-five-reasons-why-ubuntu-is-the-most-used-linux-os-491064.shtml
[15:03] <emnz> wow hey
[15:03] <emnz> ** awesome
[15:04] <emnz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#cite_ref-NetMarketShare_83-0
[15:05] <emnz> way to go on desktop still, but wow, so impressed man, im dumping windows for sure
[15:05] <emnz> cant believe how this has taken off since I last used a linux distro
[15:07] <lotuspsychje> emnz: yeah it improved alot
[15:07] <emnz> incredible
[15:08] <lotuspsychje> emnz: ive installed over more then 50 boxes with 14.04 LTS all work like a charm
[15:08] <emnz> software center is really legit now, had nothing but crappy free apps years ago
[15:08] <emnz> flash is solid now, not that we really need it with HTML5 anymore
[15:09] <TJ-> flash is a permanent can of worms!
[15:09] <emnz> firefox+all addons working
[15:09] <lotuspsychje> lol
[15:09] <emnz> haha shit, must I remove it?
[15:09] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: with a load of holes in it
[15:10] <emnz> this unity is fkn great
[15:10] <carlduke2> hi everyone, is there a channel for ubuntu app developers?
[15:10] <lotuspsychje> carlduke2: #ubuntu-devel
[15:10] <lotuspsychje> carlduke2: and #ubuntu-touch for the phones developing
[15:10] <carlduke2> isn't it for the os dev?
[15:10] <TJ-> emnz: Adobe stopped developing flash for Linux several years ago; there are some security fixes but rather like Windows it is full of exploit opportunities
[15:10] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: +1
[15:11] <emnz> do you guys like unity? seems it doesnt get much love lol
[15:12] <TJ-> I won't touch it; terrible on decent workstations or any large screen
[15:12] <lotuspsychje> once you get used it unity its very intuitive for work
[15:12] <emnz> im really liking it with unity tweak tool/compiz settings manager
[15:12] <carlduke2> it's not that bad actually ..not very customizable tough ..I switched to KDE and I'll stick with it. It has an impressive collection of apps and utilities (ie KDE Connect - mind blowing)
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> im a unity fan :p
[15:13] <emnz> yeah I set window buttons: right in unity tweak but doesnt seem to work :(
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> with wobbly windows and eyecandy
[15:13] <TJ-> Unity is small screen device (tablet) interface shoe-horned onto a workstation desktop
[15:13] <emnz> id like to have the launcher at the top, but seems this is impossible too?
[15:14] <emnz> TJ-: lol, metro start screen for linux? xD
[15:14] <TJ-> emnz: I run 6 1920x1200 monitors ... you cannot imagine the pain Unity causes.
[15:14] <lotuspsychje> lol
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> neo only uses 2 screens...
[15:15] <emnz> quite the power user hey sheesh haha, i got 2 x 1920x1080 only
[15:15] <TJ-> I's need an Olympic athelete just to move the mouse cursor back to the application and/or desktop launcher
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> roflol
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> follow the wabbit
[15:15] <TJ-> ;)
[15:16] <lotuspsychje> so 6 monitors with each 4 worskpaces lol?
[15:16] <lotuspsychje> alot of work can be done there
[15:16] <TJ-> no, I actually split them up into 4 X sessions now, to logically separate the different purposes they have
[15:16] <lotuspsychje> cool
[15:17] <lotuspsychje> if you got a pic somewhere of your desktop layout, show us lol
[15:17] <TJ-> I have 3 in portrait mode (document references, web pages, etc), 3 in landscape (terminals, ssh sessions, coding).
[15:17] <TJ-> its around somewhere
[15:17] <lotuspsychje> very nice
[15:17] <lotuspsychje> im always curious about linux desktops
[15:21] <emnz> thats great man, would also like to see
[15:21] <EriC^^> ditto
[15:22] <lotuspsychje> lolz
[15:22] <EriC^^> http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/ccManager/clips/swordfishtechno3dhackingdrama.mp4/thumbnailImage
[15:22] <EriC^^> this is lotuspsychje setup
[15:23] <lotuspsychje> hahaha
[15:23] <emnz> u guy are amateurs, mine: http://p-fst1.pixstatic.com/5069f24a74c5b64b160007e5._w.540_h.359_s.fit_.jpg
[15:23] <emnz> jk ;D
[15:24] <lotuspsychje> wahaha
[15:24] <emnz> ok so what must I use instead of unity if I want a w7 style launcher?
[15:24] <lotuspsychje> lubuntu
[15:24] <lotuspsychje> !lubuntu
[15:24] <lordievader> emnz: That is a sweet monitor wall to have :D
[15:25] <lordievader> Or to want...
[15:25] <EriC^^> lol emnz
[15:26] <lotuspsychje> bbl dinner, someone save that atari pic from TJ- for me :p
[15:30] <emnz> hmm, XFCE looks nice, but I dont want to lose ubuntu, I'm just getting into it again, don't want to lose the software center and all the apps it comes with :/
[15:31] <emnz> I'd just like ubuntu as it is, but with a different launcher
[15:32] <emnz> is it a bad idea to install XFCE on ubuntu, always better to get a distro made around it from the start
[15:32] <lordievader> Lubuntu can use Ubuntu's Software center just fine.
[15:32] <emnz> ?
[15:35] <emnz> lordievader: ok cool, but my problem is all the different apps and configuration lubuntu comes with... im a noob at this stuff, the easiness of ubuntu has been great
[15:39] <emnz> am I making stupid comments here? im sry
[15:45] <lordievader> emnz: Not at all, but do know that the underlaying system is the same for all Ubuntu flavours.
[15:45] <carlduke2> if you need a launcher check out docky
[15:45] <carlduke2> its very cool
[15:51] <TJ-> hmmm, unexplained ecryptfs mount failure
[16:02] <emnz> lordievader: yeah I am aware of that. So Xubuntu or Lubuntu won't come with Compiz?
[16:05] <EriC^^> emnz: nope
[16:05] <emnz> the selection of included software between regular ubuntu and lubuntu look vastly different
[16:06] <EriC^^> lubuntu uses openbox
[16:06] <EriC^^> yeah lubuntu is kind of minimal
[16:08] <emnz> wish I could just change the unity launcher to make it more like XFCE/LXDE/windows7, I think changing to another version of ubuntu with different apps will put me off
[16:09] <EriC^^> you can download the apps on lubuntu and xubuntu too
[16:09] <emnz> yeah but then I'll have to configure them all myself
[16:09] <EriC^^> nah it's the same thing
[16:13] <emnz> hmm
[16:21] <emnz> ugh rain is killing my internet again :(
[16:21] <emnz> EriC^^: I typed this for you before it dc'd.... :
[16:22] <emnz> EriC^^: I'm looking at the ubuntu software center - installed apps, seems to be a lot of unity-related stuff, even things like "Keyboard (unity-control-center) - change keyboard settings" and "Network (unity-control-center) - network settings", so all those apps would be gone with xubuntu/lubuntu?
[16:23] <emnz> again, my apologies for another stupid question lol, getting my head around desktop managers/window managers and how they all work together etc.
[16:30] <EriC^^> emnz: xubuntu and lubuntu have their own settings manager and keyboard stuff
[16:31] <EriC^^> xubuntu is more functional than ubuntu, it has more stuff out of the box and is more functional oriented
[16:31] <EriC^^> ill brb
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> http://www.fiercecio.com/story/mozilla-quietly-adds-advertisements-firefox/2015-09-11
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> hmmmz
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> maybe they learned from w10
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> ioria: good evening mate
[18:43] <ioria> lotuspsychje, thanx ... you too
[18:43] <lotuspsychje> ioria: the idea of this channel is, we always do support in #ubuntu but never actually speak to each other
[18:43] <lotuspsychje> so here we are :p
[18:43] <ioria> great.... "human support"
[18:43] <lotuspsychje> yeah :p
[18:44] <OerHeks> hi ioria
[18:44] <ioria> OerHeks, hallo !!!!!
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:44] <OerHeks> it is handy to have backtalk, but this channel is originally for 'discussion'
[18:44] <OerHeks> so this channel is hijacked :-D
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> well mostly its quality ubuntu discussions anyway
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> loll
[18:45]  * lotuspsychje ==h4xxored d1scuss1on==
[18:48] <lotuspsychje> pauljw: good evening
[18:48] <ioria> pauljw, welcome
[18:48] <lotuspsychje> ioria: wich distro are you running mate?
[18:49] <ioria> lotuspsychje, Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS \n \l     but i love Lubuntu :)
[18:49] <lotuspsychje> same here LTS
[18:49] <pauljw> hi lotuspsychje , thx
[18:54] <lotuspsychje> ive just tested new enlightment
[18:54] <lotuspsychje> pretty nice
[18:54] <pauljw> :)
[18:55] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/enlightenment-0-19-10-open-source-desktop-environment-out-now-with-10-bugfixes-491598.shtml
[18:55] <lotuspsychje> oldskool feeling
[18:56] <ioria> lotuspsychje, looks nice ...
[18:57] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[18:57] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wb eric
[18:57] <EriC^^> thx
[18:57] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: did TJ- show his atari link?
[18:57] <EriC^^> lol no
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:58] <ioria> atari ?
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> ioria: yeah lil joke, he's got 6 monitors running on linux, we all wanted to see
[18:58] <ioria> wow
[18:59] <lotuspsychje> yeah thats what we tought also :p
[19:01] <lotuspsychje> funny :p http://news.softpedia.com/news/tutorial-for-microsoft-to-help-it-kill-linux-491638.shtml
[19:02] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: It's all YOUR fault!
[19:02] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: :p
[19:02]  * lotuspsychje hides
[19:03] <TJ-> The image is on an external drive, protected by ecryptfs. I mount it every day... today it failed!
[19:03] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: ouch :p
[19:03]  * daftykins wonders what he just walked in on
[19:03] <daftykins> :O
[19:04] <TJ-> I've just spent an intense debugging session with Ty Hicks on it; the ecryptfs-recover-private tool adds the key to the kernel's @us (user session) keyring. Then its 'mount' command fails, kernel reports unknown key, keyctl lists the key!
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: <TJ-> emnz: I run 6 1920x1200 monitors ... you cannot imagine the pain Unity causes.
[19:04] <OerHeks> is that drive readonly?
[19:04] <TJ-> Turns out... I switched from lightdm to sddm (the KDE DM) last night... and SDDM separates the keyrings, causing this!
[19:05] <TJ-> So, if you see any questions about ecryptfs failing to open, with people on ssh sessions or similar, suspect the incorrect kernel keyring being used by the session
[19:06] <lotuspsychje> i never liked keyring
[19:09] <daftykins> TJ-: that's way too deep for me :D
[19:10] <daftykins> i spy encryption and go "nope nope nope!"
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> best way to hide data is on usb, under the ground
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> far away from the fb1
[19:18] <lotuspsychje> !info deluge
[19:23] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: got it finally :)  http://imgur.com/V6EBdJt
[19:24] <lotuspsychje> yessss lets c :p
[19:24] <ioria> TJ- Oh my ....
[19:24] <lotuspsychje> holy smokin
[19:24] <lotuspsychje> those 2 big ones left are also monitors?
[19:25] <TJ-> all 6 in the corner; 2 X portrait, 3 x landscape, 1 x portrait
[19:25] <lotuspsychje> like tv's upside down
[19:25] <lotuspsychje> dang
[19:25] <lotuspsychje> i bet you can only dream of that EriC^^ :p
[19:25] <TJ-> the far left of the photo is the reflections from the data cabinets
[19:26] <OerHeks> small printer on the left side :-D
[19:27] <lotuspsychje> loool
[19:27] <lotuspsychje> its like a plotter
[19:27] <TJ-> A3 printer/scanner inkjet on top of the 21U cabinet; A4 scanner/printer laser under the bench
[19:28] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: and wich distro running on those screenz?
[19:28] <TJ-> It's this one I'm using now. Kubuntu
[19:28] <ioria> TJ-  electric bill ?
[19:28] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:29] <TJ-> All on the laptop in the middle
[19:29] <lotuspsychje> cool
[19:29] <TJ-> ioria: All runs on 12V DC
[19:29] <ioria> TJ- wow....
[19:29] <daftykins> 12V 0o
[19:29] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: does those screens work by default on kde or xrandr config?
[19:30] <TJ-> I have the server cabinet kit on dual UPSs, via 2 x 16-outlet 0U vertical CDUs on the wall
[19:31] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I have them custom configured since it is using 3 GPUs. If it auto-configures it has no idea of where each monitor is in the layout
[19:31] <lotuspsychje> right
[19:32] <pauljw> TJ-: sweet!
[19:34] <lotuspsychje> feels like swordfish :p
[19:35] <ioria> lotuspsychje, the movie ?
[19:35] <lotuspsychje> yep :p
[19:36] <lotuspsychje> we just need the girl on her knees now for TJ-
[19:36] <ioria> lotuspsychje, it's a nice movie ...
[19:36] <lotuspsychje> yes it is :p
[19:37] <lotuspsychje> ioria: wich was your first computer ever?
[19:38] <emnz> hi guys
[19:38] <lotuspsychje> tandy calculators doesnt count :p
[19:38] <lotuspsychje> emnz: good evening
[19:39] <daftykins> moar screens = super hacker </Hollywood>
[19:39] <ioria> lotuspsychje, pentium3 ... it's still working ...
[19:39] <lotuspsychje> cool
[19:39] <TJ-> It's just a way to stay well organised when there's lots of different things going on. Avoids typing commands to remote systems into the wrong window by mistake, for example
[19:40] <TJ-> My first computer was ZX81... still working :)
[19:40] <ioria> lotuspsychje, i got it 4 years ago ... it was in a dumpster  ^_^
[19:41] <lotuspsychje> mine was a super 2000 or something, a kind of electrical mainboard to wire points togheter and make programs
[19:41] <lotuspsychje> after that comodore 64
[19:42] <TJ-> the '64 came after the vic 20 didn't it?
[19:42] <ioria> lotuspsychje, i know it
[19:42] <lotuspsychje> atari==amiga 500==486
[19:43] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: yep, never tested vic20 myself
[19:43] <lotuspsychje> but surely looks the same with cassete deck
[19:43] <lotuspsychje> 'press play on tape'
[19:43] <TJ-> I had all the popular home computers back then; writing cross-platform game engines for them
[19:44] <lotuspsychje> cool
[19:44] <lotuspsychje> me and my brother were fooling around in basic
[19:44] <emnz> you guys know anything about Cardapio?
[19:44] <emnz> http://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Cardapio.jpg
[19:45] <lotuspsychje> whats that?
[19:45] <emnz> an app launcher for unity, but its very outdated :(
[19:45] <daftykins> looks like someone has glued the xfce menu beside unity
[19:45] <lotuspsychje> ah
[19:45] <EriC^^> emnz: there's a start menu for unity in the repos i think
[19:46] <lotuspsychje> !info classicmenu-indicator | emnz try this
[19:46] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: lol
[19:46] <emnz> YES!!! omg ty!!
[19:46] <EriC^^> yeah thats it ^
[19:47] <emnz> cant I make the unity button show that?
[19:47] <lotuspsychje> emnz: no, its an indicator
[19:47] <lotuspsychje> emnz: you can try docky also and autohide left sidebar
[19:47] <lotuspsychje> !info docky
[19:48] <lotuspsychje> emnz: all depends what you wish for?
[19:49] <lotuspsychje> emnz: check terminal: apt-cache show indicator for more cool indicators
[19:50] <ioria> TJ- it was this http://www.imarshall.karoo.net/zx81/zx81pfiles.htm ?
[19:50] <TJ-> ioria: correct
[19:50] <ioria> TJ- wow
[19:50] <lotuspsychje> ioria: never seen such a thing :p
[19:51] <ioria> lotuspsychje, no, i feel little ....
[19:51] <TJ-> I ordered it whilst still at school in February 1981... Sinclair had massive orders and it wasn't delivered until June 16th, in the week after I left school and before I started work on the farm :)
[19:52] <TJ-> We had a massive 4KB RAM!
[19:52] <lotuspsychje> loool
[19:52] <emnz> lotuspsychje: ok thanks I've just given them all a look, I'm looking mostly for a menu like XFCE, so I dont have to type every app i want to open (or click Installed - see all)
[19:52] <TJ-> and you could get a wobbly 16KB "RAM Pack" to plug on the back
[19:52] <lotuspsychje> and what could you do with that thing?
[19:52] <TJ-> Loads! It came with a BASIC interpreter but I found that limited so switched to Z80A machine code
[19:52] <emnz> and if I can edit the menu that would be nice, like how you can edit windows 7 shortcuts in the taskbar
[19:52] <lotuspsychje> emnz: you can create or lock icons to unity's left bard
[19:53] <lotuspsychje> bar
[19:53] <emnz> lotuspsychje: yeah I'm doing that, and I installed unity-folders
[19:53] <TJ-> There was an expander rather like today's RasPi GPIO expansion, where you could connect analog and digital inputs/ooutputs
[19:53] <emnz> lotuspsychje: but I'd still like a bigger menu that I can customize, that classicmenu indicator is awesome but I can't edit whats inside it
[19:54] <TJ-> the neat part was the 'adapters' that plugged onto the GPIO pins were just PCBs inside regular cassette tape boxes, glued shut :)
[19:55] <daftykins> emnz: or you could just run a different DE that does this properly instead of trying to hack it onto Unity *cough*
[19:55] <lotuspsychje> wileee: good evening mate
[19:55] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: weep at what you can do in a few bytes :)  http://www.users.waitrose.com/~thunor/mmcoyzx81/downloads.html
[19:55] <wileee> evening
[19:55] <ioria> bay bay
[19:56] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: lol breakout
[19:57] <emnz> daftykins: yeah I know I know lol... I've installed lubuntu and xubuntu but still much prefer ubuntu, I'll deal with unity's quirks either way, but trying to tweak it as much as I can
[19:57] <TJ-> It was more fun than the RasPi for learning to program; you were close to the metal all the time, learned to appreciate how to write code efficiently. We used to count the clock cycles of each instruction to figure out how much we could get done... saving a 'tick' in a loop could add up
[20:01] <emnz> Is there any way to add an XFCE-style menu to docky?
[20:02] <lotuspsychje> emnz: not sure
[20:03] <lotuspsychje> anyways off to sleep
[20:03] <lotuspsychje> nitenite guys
[20:03] <pauljw> gnit
[20:10] <pauljw> bbl
[23:23] <lotuspsychje> good early morning
[23:24] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Uh Huh , Look at the day, let us rejoice and be glad in it .
[23:25] <lotuspsychje> insomnia here :p
[23:27] <Bashing-om> We keep ya company. I have been known to wake up at OH! Dark :30; and here I am .
[23:27] <lotuspsychje> lol
[23:28] <Bashing-om> besides, what are friends for .
[23:28] <lotuspsychje> !cookie | Bashing-om nice1
[23:29] <Bashing-om> cookies are good .
[23:29] <lotuspsychje> friendship too :p
[23:31] <Bashing-om> Aye, the Good things !
[23:42] <emnz> 3 hours sleep enough for you?
[23:42] <emnz> lol o.O
[23:43] <emnz> im going for a long sleep, thank you for the help, goodnight
[23:43] <lotuspsychje> lol