| mdeslaur | \o | 15:59 |
|---|---|---|
| * slangasek waves | 16:00 | |
| pitti | hello all | 16:00 |
| infinity | o/ | 16:01 |
| * pitti pung Stephane and Kees | 16:01 | |
| infinity | I just dropped bacon on the floor. | 16:01 |
| infinity | This is the worst day of my life. | 16:01 |
| slangasek | infinity: that pig's been in mud before, wash it off and get on with it | 16:02 |
| pitti | lol | 16:02 |
| * pitti catches up with the mail replies in the meantime | 16:02 | |
| infinity | Oh, right, we have a mailing list. | 16:03 |
| infinity | pitti: Hrm. I had some points to make about your SRU proposal(s) a week or so ago but, of course, didn't mail them in, and am now to scatterbrained to recall. :P | 16:04 |
| slangasek | pitti: just sent another reply, two minutes after the meeting start time | 16:04 |
| pitti | stgraber: salut | 16:04 |
| stgraber | hey pitti | 16:04 |
| pitti | slangasek: ah, good call; should be kind of obvious, but explicit is better | 16:05 |
| pitti | ok, let's start | 16:05 |
| pitti | #startmeeting | 16:05 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Tue Sep 15 16:05:32 2015 UTC. The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 16:05 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 16:05 |
| pitti | #topic action review | 16:05 |
| * pitti taps foot for meetbot | 16:06 | |
| pitti | ACTION: slangasek to forward complaint to Canonical legal | 16:06 |
| pitti | as this has been quiet for so long, is this still actually relevant? | 16:06 |
| slangasek | well | 16:07 |
| slangasek | feel free to drop it from the carry-over actions so we don't have to keep spending time discussing the non-action? | 16:07 |
| pitti | ok; let's just silently bury that then :) | 16:08 |
| slangasek | I think it should still be done but obviously it's not the top of my priority list for the reason you say | 16:08 |
| pitti | ACTION: slangasek to document maas, juju, docker exceptions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Special_Cases | 16:08 |
| slangasek | carry over :/ | 16:08 |
| pitti | this might actually get better resolved (or resolved by itself) after the changing of the policy? | 16:08 |
| slangasek | I don't think so | 16:08 |
| infinity | I would hope not. | 16:08 |
| infinity | If the policy becomes so open that what the maas team does is "okay" without an exception, I think we've gone too far in the free for all direction. | 16:09 |
| mdeslaur | those aren't "micro" :P | 16:09 |
| slangasek | they're exceptions to the policy on updating existing features, and I don't think are covered by the proposed changes to policy? | 16:09 |
| pitti | TBH, I don't know how "special" these are; I was hoping that with the generalization, allowing new features and generally allowing new microreleases this would be covered | 16:09 |
| pitti | ah, ok | 16:09 |
| pitti | ACTION: Everyone to review pitti's SRU policy ammendments and +1/-1 on-list | 16:09 |
| pitti | we got feedback from mdeslaur for the first one, and from slangasek and stgraber for the second patch | 16:10 |
| infinity | pitti: Can we carry that for another cycle, if you're not in a rush to commit? I want to re-read, and read some IRC backscroll I had with ScottK and rebut a bit. | 16:10 |
| pitti | not sure if we interpret that as silent consent from the others now? | 16:10 |
| pitti | infinity: sure | 16:10 |
| mdeslaur | oh, meant to +1 the second | 16:10 |
| infinity | Obviously, if I fail to respond sanely in the next 2 weeks, assume silent approval from me due to being a derp. :P | 16:10 |
| pitti | FWIW, I think ScottK's amendment is fine as it has been the existing policy so far anyway | 16:11 |
| infinity | Yeah, that wasn't the only discussion I had with Scott. We had a long, CoC-breaking drinking session one night. :P | 16:11 |
| mdeslaur | lol | 16:11 |
| pitti | not sure about stgraber's addition -- the policy already states that any change must be present in the devel series first, so it woudl be redundant | 16:11 |
| pitti | (I don't mind adding it, though) | 16:11 |
| infinity | I need to distill that into something publicly-acceptable. | 16:11 |
| mdeslaur | pitti: well, it's not just devel if it's a new feature | 16:12 |
| pitti | and slangasek's addition *should* be obvious, but I also don't mind adding that as a clarification | 16:12 |
| pitti | mdeslaur: how do you mean? | 16:12 |
| pitti | we wouldn't introduce a new featuer *only* into an LTS without it also landing in devel? | 16:12 |
| pitti | at least that's specifically not my intention | 16:12 |
| infinity | pitti: If it's a new feature in 14.04, it might be missing entirely in 15.04 as well, and upgrades need to be vaguely supportable. | 16:12 |
| mdeslaur | pitti: if it's a new feature, rather than just a bug fix, we need to have it in interim releases also | 16:13 |
| infinity | pitti: So, it's not just about devel and stable, but devel and all supported stables in between your target and devel. | 16:13 |
| pitti | ah, I see | 16:13 |
| pitti | so this is not devel, it's for newer stables | 16:13 |
| pitti | stgraber proposed "preferably", this should maybe become stronger then? | 16:13 |
| infinity | Probably should, yes. | 16:13 |
| pitti | i. e. "should preferably" → "must"? | 16:13 |
| infinity | Do we properly use RFC language anywhere in that document? | 16:13 |
| infinity | Maybe we should start. | 16:13 |
| mdeslaur | ah, yeah, stronger would be better | 16:14 |
| infinity | (Maybe we must start?) | 16:14 |
| pitti | yeah, we are using "should" a lot in the current policy which ought to be a "must" | 16:14 |
| stgraber | infinity: I think you meant "Maybe we MUST start?" :) | 16:15 |
| pitti | ok, so I'll send a v2 of both amendments with the proposals and the above "strongification" | 16:15 |
| infinity | A must/should/may cleanup of whatever docs we're responsible for wouldn't go amiss. | 16:15 |
| mdeslaur | #define should must | 16:15 |
| pitti | and I keep prodding infinity over the next two weeks :) | 16:15 |
| infinity | #define 2 1.999999 | 16:15 |
| slangasek | #define must volatile | 16:15 |
| pitti | ok, I think we're done with this topic :) | 16:16 |
| mdeslaur | hehe | 16:16 |
| pitti | no other agenda items | 16:16 |
| stgraber | :) | 16:16 |
| pitti | nothing new on the ML | 16:16 |
| pitti | ah, for meetbot (if it works at all): | 16:16 |
| infinity | It works, it just doesn't have topic permissions on this channel. | 16:16 |
| pitti | #action pitti to update SRU policy amendment proposals and gather feedback | 16:16 |
| meetingology | ACTION: pitti to update SRU policy amendment proposals and gather feedback | 16:16 |
| infinity | And no one's ever bothered to fix that. | 16:17 |
| pitti | ACTION: infinity to respond to that | 16:17 |
| pitti | zarro community bugs | 16:17 |
| infinity | ACTION: pitti to stop using ambiguous pronoun backreferences in actions | 16:17 |
| pitti | next chair is slangasek, then (or fallback) stgraber, ok? | 16:17 |
| * slangasek nods | 16:17 | |
| stgraber | fine with me | 16:17 |
| infinity | Glad we all agree about pitti's grammar. | 16:18 |
| infinity | (And the chair) | 16:18 |
| pitti | ACTION: infinity to replace his grammar lambastion with something much more peaceful, like a nice round of Halo or whatnot | 16:18 |
| infinity | pitti: :) | 16:18 |
| pitti | c'est ça, mes amis | 16:19 |
| pitti | #topic AOB? | 16:19 |
| slangasek | "ça" - there you go with those dangling relative pronouns again | 16:19 |
| infinity | Oh, there's one thing I wanted to get an informal "yeah, that's sane" from people before I move on it. | 16:19 |
| infinity | At Plumbers, Kate stated that she was going to officially step down from ~ubuntu-release (I need to prod her about that) and, once she does, -release, -archive, and -sru will all be core-devs. | 16:20 |
| pitti | slangasek: J'écris "Je suis mauvais" 100 fois.. | 16:20 |
| slangasek | infinity: yeah that's sane | 16:20 |
| infinity | I'd like to move to boith take over ownership of those teams by the TB where that's not currently true, and document a policy that teams that confer queue permissions shouldn't give people queue permissions more elevated than their upload rights. | 16:20 |
| slangasek | oh sorry were you still talking | 16:20 |
| * pitti assumes that there's still some question coming? | 16:20 | |
| infinity | (So, core-dev only for those teams) | 16:20 |
| pitti | big +1 | 16:21 |
| mdeslaur | infinity: you said "should" | 16:21 |
| mdeslaur | yeah, +1 from me | 16:21 |
| slangasek | +1 | 16:21 |
| infinity | The reason for the strict permission match wording, rather than explicity "must be core-devs" is that it also opens the possibility of a motu-release with universe queue permissions or whatever. | 16:21 |
| slangasek | mdeslaur: lol | 16:21 |
| stgraber | +1 | 16:22 |
| infinity | mdeslaur: Right, so I did. s/should/must/ where I meant it. :P | 16:22 |
| infinity | Okay, so thanks for the informal vote. After I poke Kate and get her to deactivate (trying to avoid drama there by doing it myself), I'll move on the policy and owenership bits. | 16:23 |
| pitti | nice, thanks infinity | 16:23 |
| pitti | #action AOB, take II | 16:23 |
| meetingology | ACTION: AOB, take II | 16:23 |
| pitti | err, #topic, sorry | 16:23 |
| infinity | Hahaha. | 16:24 |
| infinity | DRUNKEN MEEEEEETING! | 16:24 |
| pitti | #makethisend | 16:24 |
| infinity | I think we're done. :P | 16:24 |
| pitti | then, thanks everyone! | 16:24 |
| stgraber | :) | 16:24 |
| pitti | #endmeeting | 16:24 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended Tue Sep 15 16:24:29 2015 UTC. | 16:24 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2015/ubuntu-meeting-2.2015-09-15-16.05.moin.txt | 16:24 |
| stgraber | thanks! | 16:24 |
| slangasek | thanks, all | 16:24 |
| mdeslaur | thanks everyone! | 16:25 |
| pitti | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda updated | 16:26 |
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