[00:29] <Azelphur> daftykins: virtual machine in libvirt with no other OS / partitions, it's stupid :P
[00:30] <daftykins> ah
[00:30] <daftykins> funky
[00:30] <daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Icy-Box-IB-254U3-Enclosure-interface/dp/B00GYLDDCG/
[00:31] <daftykins> i'm gonna get me one o' these to throw a lappy HDD in and make it my xbox one extra storage :>
[00:31] <Azelphur> sounds fun
[00:32] <Azelphur> daftykins: amusingly, I have piles of 3.5 inch enclosures laying about, I keep giving them away
[00:33] <daftykins> with UASP? ;)
[00:33] <zmoylan-pi> so you're giving homes to the homes of 3.5" devices... :-)
[00:33] <Azelphur> daftykins: dunno
[00:33] <daftykins> seems to be a pretty newish thing
[00:33] <daftykins> not often present
[00:33] <Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: indeed, I buy drives in enclosures because it's cheaper, then pull them out of the enclosures
[00:33] <Azelphur> I've had 5 of them now
[00:33] <daftykins> i did just remember i have my old array of 6 x 1TB doing nothing, but the idea of slapping two in an external 2 bay RAID thing for USB 3 would be noisy
[00:37] <Azelphur> I have a 4x5TB array :)
[00:40] <daftykins> eh i have main storage too, but i'm more thinking of what can be attached to the xbox one
[00:40] <daftykins> since sadly you can't swap out the internal without encountering the wrath of breaking terms of service
[00:41] <daftykins> they've just geared up to releasing a new 'elite' model like the 360 had, which comes with a 1TB SSHD =|
[00:41] <daftykins> Azelphur: speaking of, presumably you meant you/your gf have an xbox one to pop on one of those 4K displays from earlier?
[00:41] <daftykins> i hadn't even read anything about whether they properly upscale to it yet
[00:46] <Azelphur> daftykins: xbox 360 actually, gf is considering getting an xbox one :)
[00:48] <Azelphur> daftykins: the main appeal of it for that however is being a monitor, means lower latency for games while TVs generally have much higher latency
[00:49] <daftykins> i think that'll be invalidated by the fact its' input lag and latency is based on being fed a 4K image
[00:49] <daftykins> giving it a 360 will mean it'll output 1080p tops, so the inbuilt will be responsible for the upscaling
[00:49] <daftykins> could end up... interesting :D
[00:49] <Azelphur> daftykins: surely it'd be lower for a 1080p image
[00:49] <daftykins> hmm?
[00:50] <Azelphur> surely the latency would be lower for a 1080i (actually xbox is 1080i) image...
[00:50] <daftykins> the xbox 360's scaler chip outputs the 1080p regardless
[00:51] <Azelphur> daftykins: yea, but the latency on the monitor is gonna be lower than that of a tv.
[00:51] <Azelphur> which is the point I'm making
[00:51] <daftykins> i've got no data on that :D
[00:52] <Azelphur> TVs have so high latency they generally don't even list it
[00:52] <Azelphur> it's bad, some TVs (like the Seiki) is like 200ms+
[00:52] <daftykins> i don't think that's true across the board
[00:53] <ali1234> HDMI has no latency so the size of the picture isn't directly related to latency
[00:53] <Azelphur> probably not but I challenge you to find a TV with its input latency listed in its spec
[00:53] <zmoylan-pi> with all the numbers they throw around with new tvs i never hear latency mentioned
[00:54] <daftykins> it is when the TV's built-in hardware has to scale it \o/
[00:54] <ali1234> yes
[00:54] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: newp more of a gamer thing still
[00:54] <zmoylan-pi> thank goodness for gamers driving down the prices of new tech :-)
[00:54] <ali1234> although if it is just doubling every pixel, that in theory could be done with no latency
[00:55] <daftykins> but it never is since they add a tonne of image magic
[00:55] <ali1234> in TVs yeah
[00:55] <diddledan> \o/ magic!
[00:55] <ali1234> not so much in monitors
[00:55] <daftykins> woohoo!
[00:55] <diddledan> TVs are awesome for ruining a movie's picture
[00:56] <daftykins> speaking of magic, i must make my words disappear from your very eyes!
[00:56] <daftykins> g'night all :D
[00:56] <diddledan> :-o
[00:56] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[00:56] <diddledan> but I just woke up!
[00:56] <ali1234> i should make a gadget to measure display latency
[00:56] <ali1234> i bet loads of gamers would buy it
[00:57] <daftykins> www.displaylag.com might be of interest, heard it mentioned somewhere recently
[00:57] <ali1234> and i bet proper ones are expensive
[00:57] <diddledan> gamers seem to obsess over 10ms vs 5ms
[00:57] <ali1234> i reckon i could do it on an arduino
[00:57] <diddledan> 100ms is equivalent to "instant" in human scales
[00:57] <ali1234> no it isn't lol
[00:58] <Azelphur> diddledan: indeed that's bad >.<
[00:58] <zmoylan-pi> just put some static on a screen and you will see how sharp or blurred it is.
[00:58] <Azelphur> diddledan: try playing a piano on 100ms
[00:58] <Azelphur> I have, it's like being under the damned speech jammer
[00:58] <ali1234> it's more like 25ms +/- 10ms
[00:59] <diddledan> google have measured it - they claim that if an effect occurs within 100ms of an action then people perceive it as instantaneous
[00:59] <zmoylan-pi> i used to play a game on a stop watch at school. start and stop as fast as possible.  i could easily to 7ms but after a few hours of playing spectrum games could occasionly get down to 3ms
[00:59] <ali1234> diddledan: for a single event, sure
[01:00] <ali1234> example given by azelphur of playing the piano is a good one. it's ver different when you're also dealing with delayed past events while entering new ones
[01:00] <zmoylan-pi> of course this was in the day of joystick wagglers so very fast alternate keys was important
[01:00] <ali1234> and playing a game is more like playing the piano than "waiting for a website to do something" (which is i assume what google were testing)
[01:00]  * diddledan waggles his joystick
[01:00] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: your fault!
[01:01] <zmoylan-pi> i blame daley thompsons decatholon
[01:01] <diddledan> yeah webpage load was the thing google were measuring
[01:02] <ali1234> i was actually playing a video game the other day and got hit by this. had to click comething N times, but the game was lagging and the "click" sound effect actually being delayed made it almost impossible to click the right number of times
[01:03] <zmoylan-pi> probably loading the click from hard drive...
[01:03] <diddledan> it needs to save to disc on every click :-p
[01:03] <diddledan> realtime world-saves ftw
[01:04] <ali1234> pretty much, it was a bloated minecraft world
[01:04] <diddledan> hah
[01:04] <ali1234> java garbage collector sucks
[01:04] <diddledan> minecraft is terrible for efficient working
[01:04] <ali1234> "let's never free anything until we hit the memory limit"
[01:05] <ali1234> i should make a website to demonstrate this effect
[01:05] <diddledan> one such example is the requirement to load an entire chunk off the server even though you can't see it all
[01:05] <ali1234> "click the button 10 times" ... "you failed"
[01:05] <diddledan> loaded just-in-case
[01:05] <zmoylan-pi> they could learn about optimisation from 8bit games :-)
[01:05] <ali1234> diddledan: chunks aren't that big though... the bigger problem is java doesn't immediately free them when minecraft unloads them
[01:05] <diddledan> yeah those 8bit programmers were true geniuses
[01:06] <diddledan> cartridges forced strange methods of optimisation so I read
[01:06] <zmoylan-pi> big blocks of memory are slow to unload when memory is completely full
[01:07] <zmoylan-pi> there's a great video on the game elite and how they squashed all the game into a tiny amount of memory that is worth watching
[01:07] <diddledan> I never have understood delayed garbage collectors on-top of the system memory allocator
[01:08] <zmoylan-pi> draw the screen while loading the game then throw out that code and never overwrite those sections that are the ship
[01:08] <diddledan> I get the point of delayed garbage collection by the system but to add it on-top of another memory allocator seems.. weird
[01:08] <ali1234> the logic is that some operating systems have really bad allocators, so you should write one that's a tiny bit better than the absolute worst, and then force everyone to use it
[01:08] <diddledan> and that's why openssl is such a pig
[01:08] <ali1234> and firefox too
[01:09] <ali1234> openssl actually has a good reason, it needs to know for sure that freed memory is securely wiped
[01:09] <ali1234> oh and also Gtk+ has one of these things in it
[01:09] <diddledan> they took that requirement as carte blanche to reimplement everything themselves tho
[01:09] <zmoylan-pi> just because a language is bad doesn't mean you can't get coders who can't make it run efficently. it's just they cost a lot more
[01:11] <ali1234> it's not actually about the language... java has at least four different garbage collectors and i'm pretty sure on of them is "just directly use malloc and free"
[01:11] <ali1234> Gtk+ also has this as a debug option
[01:11] <ali1234> but it can cause programs to behave differently
[01:11] <ali1234> so you can't really use them in production
[01:11] <zmoylan-pi> true but it does seem like they picked the best way to slow down a system :-)
[01:14] <ali1234> ah the crazy allocator is in glib of course, not Gtk+
[03:50] <diddledan> catching-up on the last few episodes of "humans" - it's a really compelling story
[03:50] <diddledan> just starting ep6
[03:55] <diddledan> nearly time for morning coffee methinks
[05:03] <mapps> hello
[05:12] <diddledan> morning
[05:43] <mapps> 1 ep of izombie then bed
[05:43] <mapps> gotta be up at midday
[05:43] <mapps> picking up apartment keys at 12;30 water person coming t 1 ugh
[05:44] <mapps> got loads to move too its a right hassle
[05:48] <mapps> only diddledan up
[05:48] <mapps> no zmoylan-pi lurking?
[05:48] <mapps> :)
[05:52] <diddledan> they're lightweights
[05:54] <mapps> https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10296795_896313610394830_6540979153331699150_n.jpg?oh=5d77a32ea83c917bf15c9c6781219185&oe=5665A9BD
[05:54] <mapps> lol
[05:54] <mapps> how can someone who's a mum look and dress like that
[05:54] <mapps> just looks cheap and nasty
[05:54] <mapps> everytime i reactivate facebook i wonder if i should have
[06:15] <diddledan> stupid americans - re the teenager who took a clock to school, a police person told media: "we attempted to question the juvenile about what it was and he would simply only tell us that it was a clock" <-- turns out it was a clock
[06:15] <mapps> lol
[06:15] <mapps> who reported it
[06:15] <diddledan> who'd have thunk a teenager telling the truth
[06:15] <diddledan> a teacher called the cops on him
[06:16] <diddledan> he has also been suspended for three days despite being proven to not be a muslim terrorist
[06:16] <diddledan> criminal prosecution has not been ruled out
[06:16] <mapps> because they saw him with a clock what like he was walking around with it?
[06:17] <diddledan> he made it at home and took it to school to show his engineering teacher. a different teacher saw it and called the cops
[06:18] <mapps> ah
[06:18] <mapps> what a fool the teacher was
[06:19] <diddledan> yeah but even so the authorities are prosecuting the kid even though it was a false alarm, and he also gets three days suspension from school because meh
[06:20] <mapps> prosecuting him fr what
[06:20] <mapps> must be some reason
[06:20] <diddledan> there's a campaign site here https://www.standwithahmed.com/
[06:21] <diddledan> as far as I can tell they're prosecuting because cockmakers should be made examples of to deter future would-be clockakers
[06:22] <diddledan> basically no reason whatsoever
[06:22] <mapps> ah is that what that hashtag meant
[07:03] <MartijnV1S> ooooooh! http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p030s5bx
[07:08] <diddledan> ooh
[07:08] <diddledan> that looks good
[07:21] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:22] <leecowdrey_> Indeed it's a morning to you all too
[08:02] <foobarry> that clock story is bringing out the worst side of americans
[08:03] <foobarry> all the comments as usual are polarised
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> they have a different side? :P
[08:04] <diddledan> teehee: https://twitter.com/WillMcAvoyACN/status/644260578156871680
[08:25] <zmoylan-pi> i wonder if the teacher will be prosecuted for wasting police time
[08:25] <diddledan> hah
[08:25] <diddledan> last I heard they're still prosecuting the kid
[08:25] <zmoylan-pi> no all charges were dropped last i heard
[08:26] <zmoylan-pi> the police said they did the right thing responding as they did and said it was a cool clock
[08:28] <bashrc_> I think that story shows that the "national security" mindsets turns adults into idiots who are either unwilling or unable to exercise critical judgement
[08:29] <zmoylan-pi> i remember when some smart add phoned in a bomb scare during my schools leaving cert exams.  they hoped to be able to look at a few books when the classes were evacuated.  all that happened was a gardai came in and checked the classes out
[08:30] <zmoylan-pi> *smart ass
[08:33] <foobarry> this could have been resolved if english teachers knew more about science
[08:33] <foobarry> or the headteacher actually spoke to the engineering teacher!
[08:36] <zmoylan-pi> i think the teacher that he brought the clock in to show advised him to hide it which suggests he thought some of the other teachers wouldn't understand or were idiots
[08:36] <jpds> zmoylan-pi: Possibly both
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> Willful ignorance.
[08:37] <zmoylan-pi> considering what they pay teachers can we expect any better?
[08:37] <foobarry> pay is not related to ability
[08:37] <jpds> What foobarry said
[08:38] <zmoylan-pi> pay does decide the level of applicants to a large degree
[08:38] <foobarry> living in texas does not immediately imply you are an inbred numpty
[08:38] <foobarry> teaching is a vocation too
[08:38] <foobarry> and pay is static across the board largely
[08:38] <zmoylan-pi> imply no, hint yes
[08:42] <diddledan> my sister is a teacher
[08:42] <diddledan> so poo to you
[08:42] <diddledan> she's awesome!
[08:42] <zmoylan-pi> i've had great teachers and i've had teachers who were there just to punch a clock
[08:43] <diddledan> my brother-in-law however is a business psychologist which means he's the enemy :-p
[08:43] <jpds> zmoylan-pi: Puch a WHAT?
[08:43] <Myrtti> and I've got a friend teaching science that genuinely thought that microwaving water made it bad
[08:43] <diddledan> Myrtti: oh dear
[08:43] <zmoylan-pi> they were there just to do the hours and get a pay cheque
[08:44] <zmoylan-pi> and a teacher can be fantastic in one area and a complete idiot in another
[08:45] <diddledan> there was a video I saw a couple days ago which had a teenage girl from an english speaking country that isn't the UK moaning about a language barrier when talking to someone in the UK
[08:45] <diddledan> she also moaned about how the UK being closer to the sun must be the explanation as to why something is many pounds
[08:46] <diddledan> (pounds as in cost - the english person responded to her quizzing the cost of something and she was bemused that he replied a weight)
[08:47] <jpds> diddledan: "A pound of your flesh", very Shakespearian.
[08:47] <diddledan> jpds: I bite my thumb at thee
[08:47] <Myrtti> lol
[08:47] <zmoylan-pi> i fart in your general direction
[08:47] <diddledan> lol
[08:47] <Myrtti> you all smell of elderberries
[08:47] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAy4zULKFDU
[08:48] <diddledan> Myrtti: beat me
[08:57] <diddledan> hmm, it's 10:00 and I'm already hungry
[08:57]  * zmoylan-pi passes diddledan the bag of peanuts
[08:58] <diddledan> meh
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> covered in chocolate
[08:58] <diddledan> meh
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> or dry roasted
[08:58] <diddledan> now if they were raisens covered in chocolate..!
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> i'd banish you to the pits of hell for ruining good chocolate
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> :-)
[09:03] <diplo> Whats the benefit of either creating a new Volume Group or Extending an existing one with logical volumes
[09:03] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:03] <diplo> I'm not sureon best practice ?
[09:04] <diplo> I take it that adding to an existing volume group I can extend other pv's into that VG group where as if I create a new one only new PV's can be extended
[09:10] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Apple Dumpling Day! 😃
[09:11]  * JamesTait is stubbornly refusing to turn on the heater.
[09:15] <diplo> JamesTait: I'm the same! I was actually cold last night.. but stubborness won out
[09:15] <diplo> :)
[09:18] <JamesTait> Same here, but I'm going to grab an extra jumper!
[09:18] <diplo> 2 months to go for heating yet!
[09:24] <diddledan> I've still got a window open :-p
[09:25] <zmoylan-pi> i have windows open and fan running at night [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Mostly Cloudy | Temp: 12C/54F/285K/513R | Humidity: 82% | Wind Speed 8mph/13kmph
[09:27] <diddledan> I like the fresh air this time of year when I'm in bed - it reminds me of a period where I felt content despite being in the throws of deep depression (the weather reminds me of being in an adolescent psyc unit)
[09:27] <diddledan> I'm weird, what can I say :-p
[09:28] <zmoylan-pi> you fit right in here :-)
[09:28] <diddledan> teehee
[09:55] <czajkowski> anyone looking for a new role https://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/98046/full-stack-python-javascript-engineer-for-seenitio
[09:56] <Laney> just found a half eaten packet of pork scratchings downstairs
[09:56] <Laney> BONUS
[09:56]  * Laney chomps
[09:57] <MooDoo> RESULT
[09:57] <davmor2> SADDO's
[09:58] <zmoylan-pi> before their expiry date? double bonus
[09:58] <zmoylan-pi> :-)
[09:59] <Laney> still crunchy
[09:59] <popey> mmmm fried fat
[09:59] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[09:59] <zmoylan-pi> nothing worse than soggy pork scratchings
[10:00] <popey> _nothing_ on earth
[10:03] <mapps> get my apartment keys in 20mins:D
[10:04] <mapps> squash anyone! hah
[10:04]  * diddledan sits on mapps
[10:04] <mapps> just hpe there's some unsecure wifi i can steal until my internet is connected
[10:04] <diddledan> howsat for squish?
[10:04] <mapps> there's places below me with it.. two cafes the gym and mcdonalds but no way they'd reach me (10th floor)
[10:05] <diddledan> ouch
[10:05] <diddledan> 10 floors is a long way up
[10:05] <mapps> indeed
[10:05] <diddledan> hopefully you've got a lift?
[10:05] <zmoylan-pi> pringles can antennae?
[10:05] <mapps> yep
[10:05] <mapps> i should hope so for 1200 a month;p
[10:05] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: bonus is you get to eat the pringles first
[10:05] <diddledan> mm nummy
[10:06] <zmoylan-pi> nom nom, salt & vinegar pringles
[10:06] <mapps> im off a week in november and december, might go to berlin november but december cant decide where would be nice around then
[10:06] <davmor2> JamesTait: I can't find an apple dumping song or a macdondalds apple pie volcano gif, so I'll go for this as it mentions Opples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrIqSlt9PXg
[10:08] <zmoylan-pi> i haven't had a mcdonalds apple pie in decades... tempted...
[10:08] <mapps> sheesh nor have i
[10:08] <foobarry> mmm
[10:08] <mapps> im eating out a lot..too much junk food
[10:08] <foobarry> deep fried apple pie
[10:08] <mapps> ate twice at the rubbish casino the other day heh
[10:10] <zmoylan-pi> ate at the casino... that sounds like a gamble... :-)
[10:11] <mapps> yea it's woeful
[10:11] <mapps> burger bacon and cheese
[10:11] <mapps> cold bacon cold cheese..yum
[10:11] <mapps> but after 1am it's the only place..the kebab shops close midnight..1 stand in the square but 1am closed to
[10:11] <mapps> *too
[10:12] <zmoylan-pi> kebab shops that close at midnight... don't they understand that's the only time they sell kebabs?!
[10:12] <mapps> :)
[10:15] <zmoylan-pi> is there no site for gibraltar that lists all the takeouts in your area and times they're open?
[10:37] <diddledan> sorry, but I feel this hasn't been posted recently enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTqXEQ2l-Y
[10:39] <zmoylan-pi> sees your video and raises you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojydNb3Lrrs
[10:45] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:32] <diddledan> bigcalm: he's not big, and he's not calm :-p
[11:32] <bigcalm> Small yet perfectly formed
[11:33] <diddledan> except that growth on your neck
[11:33] <diddledan> oh that's your head :-p
[11:41] <davmor2> diddledan, zmoylan-pi: I see you videos and I raise you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC5eMgePakk
[11:47] <bigcalm> diddledan: you're being rather rude for somebody I don't personally know. Please try not to be
[11:51] <diddledan> sorry, I come across that way I guess
[11:52] <diddledan> I promise I absolutely never ever mean offence with any of my utterances, even if I appear to the contrary
[11:54] <diddledan> davmor2: dang that's trumpy!
[11:54] <davmor2> diddledan: trumpy is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4ixAfJ1LuI
[12:07] <mapps> sleep time
[12:07] <mapps> moved most my stuff in:D
[12:07] <mapps> back at old place to get some more sleep :)
[12:18] <diddledan> when did I disappear?
[12:18] <diddledan> apparently I just reconnected. random.
[12:18] <popey> you haven't yet
[12:18] <popey> i see no disconnect
[12:19] <diddledan> yeah that'll be my local-to-znc connection that died then
[12:53] <diddledan> bouncy bouncy czajkowski
[13:01] <diddledan> OMG!!! http://www.gog.com/game/starship_titanic
[13:17] <davmor2> diddledan: did you get my trupy is this video link?
[13:18] <davmor2> diddledan: also late addition to the Morning head songs today with Read all about it
[13:20] <diddledan> yup I dead
[13:21] <diddledan> did**
[13:21] <diddledan> lol @ speelign
[14:38] <Azelphur> Long shot, but copy and paste doesn't work between X screens, does anyone have a solution better than https://dpaste.de/6sRO ?
[15:33] <mapps> gah still tired
[15:33] <mapps> ;[
[15:35]  * daftykins throws a funnel and a tall red bull at mapps 
[15:35] <shauno> or just go back to bed :)
[15:36]  * zmoylan-pi throws box of smarties with all the best e numbers for hyper activity at mapps 
[15:54] <mapps> gotta go gym morrisons etc move last bits over
[15:54] <diddledan_> morissons in gibraltar?
[15:54] <mapps> why do all the morons put Gibraltar as where they live when they live in La Linea, clearly a big diff
[15:54] <mapps> yea
[15:54] <mapps> la linea is known as the a hole of spain
[15:55] <mapps> it's like a bombs hit it--nothing like i imagined spain to be - had only been majorca not mainland spain before
[15:55] <mapps> some days the shelves are empty diddledan as it all comes from uk
[15:55] <diddledan_> yeesh
[15:56] <diddledan_> that's sucky
[15:56] <mapps> ya like they cant have deliveries on weekends
[15:57] <mapps> sometimes like there will be no freh meat basically..even freh juice low...umm cooked meats etc
[15:59] <daftykins> that's basically how our local supermarket chain has been getting :P
[15:59] <daftykins> they sold their local warehouse so now everything is at the mercy of the seas for freight
[15:59] <diddledan_> daftykins: I guess it's an island thing
[15:59] <daftykins> :D
[16:00] <zmoylan-pi> it's a trick question gibraltar is a penninsula... :-P
[16:00] <diddledan_> o_O
[16:00] <diddledan_> I never knew
[16:02] <daftykins> mapps: i bet you can walk around that thing in half an hour :P
[16:02] <shauno> what, the morissons?
[16:02] <diddledan_> lol
[16:02] <diddledan_> morning shauno
[16:03] <shauno> o/
[16:16] <daftykins> wow that graveyard and Church is right next to the runway
[16:16] <daftykins> in Gibraltar
[16:28] <Azelphur> getting this error in wine,  "err:winediag:schan_imp_init Failed to load libgnutls, secure connections will not be available." but I've installed libgnutls >.> any ideas?
[16:29] <diddledan_> Azelphur: 64 vs 32bit?
[16:29] <Azelphur> installed all the i386 packages I could find, too
[16:30] <diddledan_> with the :i386 notation for dual-stack or the legacy method packages?
[16:30] <diddledan_> (or similar)
[16:30] <diddledan_> I forget but it might just be :386
[16:31] <Azelphur> I just grabbed every libgnutls and libgnutls:i386 package I can find
[16:31] <diddledan_> hmm
[16:31] <diddledan_> that should do it :-/
[16:33] <daftykins> ldd shed any light?
[16:45] <ali1234> wow... so QNAP NAS units appear to have a nasty bug that completely corrupts your filesystem
[16:45] <ali1234> they used the EXT3 48 bit extents patch
[16:46] <diddledan_> \o/
[16:47] <ali1234> it wwrites the block number as a u32 then a u16
[16:47] <daftykins> :S
[16:47] <daftykins> got your kernel compiled then? :)
[16:47] <ali1234> u16 being the high bits
[16:47] <ali1234> but for some reason this qnap doesn't write that u16, possibly because it is always zero
[16:48] <ali1234> so then the high 16 bits of the block number get effectively randomized
[16:48] <diddledan_> so it didn't zero them it just left a random pointer dangling when handing off to the disk?!
[16:48] <ali1234> exactly yes
[16:48] <diddledan_> that's nuts
[16:48] <ali1234> and it only happens when there's more than four extents for a file
[16:49] <ali1234> extents = what you would call fragments
[16:49] <ali1234> so it only happens when your 1TB disk gets really full of important files
[16:49] <daftykins> how many bay unit and what RAID config?
[16:49] <ali1234> it only has 1 disk in it
[16:49] <ali1234> i don't know exactly which unit, but an old one
[16:50] <diddledan_> so you're only going to hit the bug when you've got loads of data that you cannot lose
[16:50] <ali1234> diddledan yeah :(
[16:50] <ali1234> luckily it's an easy fix... just zero those bits
[16:50] <ali1234> well i hope that works anyway
[16:50] <diddledan_> fingers crossed
[16:51] <ali1234> basically ext4 didn't exist when this thing was made
[16:51] <daftykins> i've always gone Synology but always seen those QNAPs around
[16:51] <daftykins> i take it it's an abandoned unit support wise?
[16:51] <ali1234> it has a 2.6.12.6 kernel with the ext3 48 bit patch set, which is like ext4 alpha version before it was even called ext4
[16:51] <diddledan_> so they were trying to allow their units to cope with larger filesystems than default ext3 allowed?
[16:52] <ali1234> yeah
[16:52] <ali1234> and larger files too
[16:52] <daftykins> sounds like the kind of thing that should've been labelled beta
[16:52] <popey> i recently bought a netgear nas
[16:52] <popey> seems okay
[16:52] <ali1234> well this QNAP seemed okay for like however many years...
[16:52] <ali1234> there's file on it from 2005
[16:53] <popey> :(
[16:58] <daftykins> how do the Netgears handle the OS? the lower end 2-bay Synologys, you put them on the network with the disks in then the software gets loaded from your PC onto the disks
[16:58] <daftykins> so there's not so much built in storage for the OS portion
[17:00] <diddledan_> I know the single-drive netgears that come with the drive embedded put the OS on a linux mdraid-1 parition pair with the rest of the disk partitioned for the owner to use
[17:02] <daftykins> partition pair on single bay? 0o
[17:02] <daftykins> so they RAID-mirror in two partitions on a single physical disk?
[17:02] <diddledan_> yup
[17:02] <daftykins> that's horrible
[17:08] <Azelphur> daftykins: ldd?
[17:10] <popey> my netgear came with no disks
[17:10] <daftykins> Azelphur: don't worry, just the comment of someone who doesn't have a clue i think
[17:10] <popey> so i assume there's some onboard flash storage
[17:10] <Azelphur> lol
[17:10] <daftykins> popey: ah so it had the full web admin etc?
[17:10] <popey> yes
[17:10] <popey> quite natty
[17:10] <daftykins> the synologys just have enough to accept the OS to get thrown at it once disks are in, pretty novel
[17:12] <diddledan_> daftykins: it might be PXE-style boot-up where there is ONLY enough code to fire up the network and transfer a file and run that in-memory
[17:12] <diddledan_> PXE boot-roms are usually in the order of a couple hundred KB
[17:14] <daftykins> sounds about right
[17:14] <daftykins> enough to grab a lease then sit and wait
[17:16] <popey> the web admin thing on the netgear is quite nice
[17:16] <popey> and it can pretend to be an apple time machine target
[17:16] <popey> which is handy
[17:18] <daftykins> pretty sure they all can now
[17:19] <daftykins> seems you can even make ones that don't do it, by just mounting a disk then creating the appropriate image file
[17:19] <daftykins> ooh that reminds me, i was checking a clients backup when i saw that it'd given up since _May_
[17:19] <daftykins> nice work Time Machine
[17:24] <zmoylan-pi> did it not raise a stink when it stopped working or were those warnings ignored by user?
[17:35] <mapps> ;]
[17:35] <mapps> done most my boring chores today
[17:37] <zmoylan-pi> wax on, wax off
[17:37] <mapps> 1 case and washbasket full of stuff to take to new place
[17:38] <daftykins> :)
[17:38] <mapps> then unpack some stuff i guess
[17:38] <mapps> laptop last;D wont hve net there
[17:38] <daftykins> i think i'll be coming through Malaga in October, still a fair distance to Gib there though
[17:38] <zmoylan-pi> unless you use ryanair... :-)
[17:39] <mapps> ya
[17:39] <mapps> 1hr30 away daftykins
[17:39] <mapps> 1hr if you go like a loony
[17:40] <mapps> we had no choice that time i got our flight to prague wrong LOL
[17:40] <mapps> I' flying out of Malaga to Berlin in November :)
[17:40] <daftykins> well i don't have a license so...
[17:40] <zmoylan-pi> drive even crazier :-P
[17:42] <daftykins> haha
[17:42] <mapps> can get a taxi to Gib for 75 euros
[17:42] <mapps> best rate ive found
[17:42] <mapps> mate from casino told me of some company who do gib - malaga 75 euros
[17:43] <mapps> normally its around 125-150 been quote
[17:43] <mapps> d
[17:43] <daftykins> ouch!
[17:43] <daftykins> would be pretty sweet to see the rock
[17:43] <daftykins> you hiked it yet? :D
[17:43] <mapps> where you going?
[17:43] <daftykins> boss' flat east of Malaga
[17:43] <mapps> aha
[17:43] <daftykins> Marina del Este
[17:43] <mapps> well
[17:44] <mapps> you could get a bus from Malaga to Gib for like 6 euros?
[17:44] <mapps> and see gib for a day
[17:45] <mapps> you'll be near Puerto Banus then which the british chavs love
[17:45] <mapps> i have 0 interest in going there, it's full of thickos fake tan, kilos of makeup, payin £200 for bottles of vodka
[17:45] <mapps> blowing a weeks shop wages in a bar
[17:45] <mapps> i just wish i owned ne of these bars;)
[17:46] <mapps> Sotogrande is meant to be VERY nice though, nice area not full of tacky bars/restaurants aimed at brits
[17:47] <mapps> Puerto Banus is just Magaluf but more expensive, honestly dont see how anyone not a moron can care for it, rubbish british style bars like 'lineers'
[17:53] <daftykins> i'm not one for those kinds of scenes at all :)
[17:53] <daftykins> i'm only content coming so far south since it's winter ;D
[19:11] <ali1234> hmm. i patched debugfs to ignore the top 16 bits of any 48 bit block number - they should always be zero on a 1Tb drive anyway - and all files are now readable
[19:14] <diddledan_> nice
[19:14] <diddledan_> well done!
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's some scary stuff
[19:19] <diddledan_> that kind of fix, along with figuring out the problem, are both way beyond my skillset :-)
[20:01] <diddledan_> daftykins: you running win10? you want to reclaim space used by windows itself (about 3GB)? http://blogs.technet.com/b/mniehaus/archive/2015/09/16/windows-10-reducing-the-disk-footprint.aspx
[20:07] <daftykins> hrmm
[20:09] <daftykins> there's something that makes me feel greatly hesitant about the use of compression :)
[20:09] <diddledan_> heh
[20:10] <popey> i know that feeling, but it's odd really, given we use compression all day transparently for many critical things
[20:11] <diddledan_> you can use `compact.exe /compactos:query` to check whether your system already has the setting enabled or not
[20:14] <popey> I remember the day Windows 95 came out. I had a Toshiba CS 2100 running Windows 3.11 with a compressed drive. Took an _age_ to upgrade to Win95
[20:14] <popey> I left it at work chugging away and went home.
[20:15] <ali1234> i saw a windows server recently that had compression turned on when the drive ran out of space
[20:15] <ali1234> it took about 30 minutes to boot up
[20:16] <shauno> doublespace isn't dead?
[20:19] <ali1234> ntfs has compression built in
[20:19] <popey> Thinking about it, that toshiba was the first laptop I had which had a nipple
[20:20] <popey> kinda wish I got into Linux back then
[20:20] <shauno> I may never understand your fascination with nipples
[20:20] <popey> accuracy and lack of finger movement
[20:22] <shauno> and you didn't miss much.  I moved to linux instead of 95.  they were some dark, dark years.  I didn't find a video card with X drivers until early 2000s
[20:22] <diddledan_> lol
[20:22] <diddledan_> that's impressive
[20:24] <shauno> it really wasn't :/  I had a tseng labs card, which was meant to work with the et4000 drivers, but never did.  so I could get 640x480 with the vesa drivers, and nothing else
[20:24] <popey> Very first time I'd heard of Linux was when I worked at a college and one of the students mentioned it to me.
[20:24] <popey> I was like "pfffft whatever"
[20:25] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[20:25] <popey> word
[20:26] <bigcalm> Up
[20:26] <diddledan_> I remember quizzing the IT guy at the college I attended about their CLI interface and whether it was this new linux thing and he replied: no it's a real netware
[20:26] <intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
[20:26] <diddledan_> as if linux was supposed to be a knockoff netware clone
[20:26] <bigcalm> intrbiz: still on for Saturday?
[20:26] <intrbiz> bigcalm: yup
[20:26] <bigcalm> Yay
[20:26] <diddledan_> choochoo?
[20:26] <bigcalm> Hayley won't be joining us :(
[20:26] <popey> choo choo indeed!
[20:26] <intrbiz> bigcalm: are we meeting anywhere before hand/
[20:27] <diddledan_> have fun :-)
[20:27] <intrbiz> bigcalm: ah :(
[20:27] <bigcalm> intrbiz: Some of us will be at The Mulberry in Farnham around 5/5.30 ish
[20:27] <intrbiz> okies
[20:27] <bigcalm> Food and a pint before choo choo
[20:27] <popey> pre-pint pint
[20:27] <intrbiz> yeh
[20:27] <bigcalm> intrbiz: I thought you were meeting us at Alton?
[20:28] <bigcalm> Will be grand if you do join us :)
[20:28] <diddledan_> anywho, I'm knackered. gonna go get some shuteye
[20:28] <intrbiz> bigcalm: should be in farnham, if not then alton
[20:29] <daftykins> such alien places to me, you mainlanders speak of
[20:29] <intrbiz> bigcalm: just gotta sort the timings out
[20:29] <daftykins> there's only a dry bit and a wet bit down 'ere :D
[20:43] <bigcalm> intrbiz: got a moment for some fun with ansible?
[20:43] <intrbiz> bigcalm: sure
[20:43] <bigcalm> Yay
[20:44] <bigcalm> In a roll I have http://paste.ubuntu.com/12441053/
[20:45] <intrbiz> yeh
[20:45] <bigcalm> In a Vagrantfile I have http://paste.ubuntu.com/12441057/
[20:45] <bigcalm> But it's failing with
[20:45] <bigcalm> fatal: [mvp] => with_dict expects a dict
[20:46] <bigcalm> Obviously I'm doing something wrong with databases in my extra_vars, but I'm not sure what
[20:47] <intrbiz> bigcalm: try with_items rather than with_dict
[20:48] <bigcalm> Okay
[20:48] <bigcalm> fatal: [mvp] => One or more undefined variables: 'dict object' has no attribute 'value'
[20:49] <bigcalm> Should I now move to using item.name instead of item.value.name ?
[20:49] <intrbiz> bigcalm: omit the '.value'
[20:49] <intrbiz> bigcalm: eg: item.name
[20:49] <intrbiz> bigcalm: item.host
[20:50] <intrbiz> bigcalm: brb
[20:50] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12441116/
[20:50] <bigcalm> K
[20:51] <bigcalm> Ah, possibly missing a module
[20:53] <intrbiz> bigcalm: you'll need a pre-req task along the lines of: apt-get name=python-mysqldb state=installed
[20:53] <bigcalm> Ah
[20:53] <intrbiz> bigcalm: not 100% sure what the python-mysql driver package name is on ubunut
[20:53] <intrbiz> ubuntu*
[20:53] <bigcalm> I couldn't work out if the python module was needed on the host or the guest
[20:54] <bigcalm> Yeah, it's sudo apt-get install python-mysqldb
[20:55] <bigcalm> Woop!
[20:55] <bigcalm> intrbiz: thanks :)
[20:56] <intrbiz> bigcalm: working?
[20:57] <bigcalm> intrbiz: like a charm
[20:58] <intrbiz> bigcalm: coolio, ansible execute the tasks locally on the target host, so you need the python drivers etc installed on the target for some of the modules
[20:58] <bigcalm> I'm enjoying converting this project from bash to ansible provisioning
[20:58] <bigcalm> intrbiz: makes sense
[21:00] <intrbiz> mmm maisel's weisse is sehr gut
[21:01] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I assume you'll be at revolution next week?
[21:01] <Azelphur> popey: was it you who had a fancy home monitoring setup so you could see the power consumption of each plug socket? curious how it's done
[21:01] <popey> not me
[21:02] <Azelphur> dam
[21:02] <Azelphur> would be cool to monitor the usage of each individual plug socket :)
[21:02] <bigcalm> intrbiz: the 3 of us will be, aye. Hayley will be all alone in the office
[21:02] <bigcalm> intrbiz: are you coming up for it?
[21:02] <bigcalm> intrbiz: and for the Rebellion the night before?
[21:03] <intrbiz> bigcalm: won't be at rebellion sadly, will be on a train somewhere
[21:03] <intrbiz> bigcalm: will be at revolution on the friday
[21:04] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[21:08] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I was planning on WFH on the 24th, but we've got a company party that afternoon, with free drinks
[21:09] <bigcalm> Doh!
[21:09] <bigcalm> Your train journey is going to be fun :P
[21:09] <intrbiz> yeh :(
[21:10] <intrbiz> gonna try and not drink too much
[21:11] <intrbiz> hmm, decisions, decision, sould I do: PostgreSQL con -> ogg camp -> SuseCon all back to back
[21:14] <bigcalm> Nutta :D
[21:15] <bigcalm> Hayley and I will be spending some of our time in the Ship and Mitre drinking strong Belgian beers over the Oggcamp weekend
[21:17] <intrbiz> bigcalm: we went to a Belgian resteraunt for lunch t'other day, 50 bottles + several taps on their menu, had some nice wit beer
[21:17] <bigcalm> :)
[21:25] <bigcalm> Any thoughts as to why this might start happening? http://paste.ubuntu.com/12441563/
[21:27] <intrbiz> bigcalm: sorry :(, not used Vagrant
[21:27] <bigcalm> Okay
[21:28] <intrbiz> bigcalm: docs for vargrant share do state: 'Vagrant Share requires an account with HashiCorp's Atlas to be used'
[21:29] <bigcalm> I don't know what that means
[21:33] <bigcalm> I'm running an old version of vagrant, yay me
[21:37] <intrbiz> bigcalm: https://atlas.hashicorp.com/
[21:37] <bigcalm> intrbiz: I was running an old version of vagrant
[21:37] <intrbiz> bigcalm: ah
[21:37] <bigcalm> I don't dev from my laptop as much as I used to
[21:41] <intrbiz> bigcalm: ah, desktop?
[21:41] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I use my aging T410 for everything now
[21:42] <bigcalm> intrbiz: desktop at home and desktop at work
[21:42] <bigcalm> Which sometimes bites me in the arse if I forget to check something in
[21:42] <intrbiz> bigcalm: hehe
[21:43] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I've recently realised how few posessions I actually need
[21:43] <bigcalm> When that happens, and I'm at home, I get Adam to turn on my workstation and then SSH in over the vpn
[21:43] <bigcalm> intrbiz: becoming a nomad?
[21:43] <intrbiz> bigcalm: feels like it, yeh
[21:44] <intrbiz> bigcalm: just roam from hotel to hotel. Sadly london hotels are all to variable
[21:44] <intrbiz> bigcalm: and roam from pub to pub
[21:45] <intrbiz> maybe that should be crawl
[21:45] <bigcalm> ;
[21:45] <bigcalm> )
[21:51] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I do miss being able to go to Symphony Hall however
[21:51] <bigcalm> It's getting expensive there
[21:52] <intrbiz> bigcalm: at SH?
[21:52] <bigcalm> SH in the ICC?
[21:53] <intrbiz> bigcalm: yeh
[21:53] <bigcalm> Maybe it's just the shows that we want to go and see
[21:53] <bigcalm> Surely you have greater options down in Londinium?
[21:54] <intrbiz> bigcalm: SH is a far better venue for Classical than anything in London
[21:54] <intrbiz> bigcalm: it's rather ironic
[21:54] <dutchie> haha you wouldn't believe that if you listen to my dad
[21:54] <bigcalm> Crikey
[21:55] <intrbiz> dutchie: yeh?
[21:55] <dutchie> intrbiz: he's principal trumpet in the cbso, always complaining about how things are going downhill
[21:55] <bigcalm> cb?
[21:55] <intrbiz> dutchie: cool, its ashame that Andris left
[21:56] <dutchie> yeah, he was really good
[21:56] <intrbiz> a shame*
[21:56] <dutchie> bigcalm: city of birmingham symphony orchestra
[21:56] <bigcalm> dutchie: ta, I guessed the so ;)
[21:56] <bigcalm> cobso sounds better :P
[21:57] <intrbiz> bigcalm: :(
[21:57] <bigcalm> Anyway, time for a snooze
[21:58] <bigcalm> See you kids at the weekend :)
[21:58] <intrbiz> bigcalm: cya saturday
[22:01] <dutchie> see you then too!
[22:02] <intrbiz> dutchie: are you RATing?
[22:02] <dutchie> yup
[22:02] <dutchie> hmm, i should find my ticket for that
[22:02] <intrbiz> dutchie: cool, see you too
[22:23] <mapps> back soon moving laptop so no net