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Mathisenhello is it worth installing ubuntu on a samsung s4 ? i saw it should be suported.. been using cuyagenmod so far07:38
Mathisenis it working okej on that device ?07:39
jgdxmariogrip, hey, where can I buy an one+ with ubuntu?07:40
Stanley00Mathisen: you can check this site: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/i950507:41
jgdxmariogrip, (re: https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/wip-ubuntu-touch-for-oneplus-one.266170/page-80#post-13192766 )07:41
MathisenStanley00, thx sound camera does not seem to great so i think i pass on this :) ... maybe some other day07:42
Stanley00Mathisen: that wiki updated on Dec 2013, on the link to xda, the last update time is on 2014-03-24, so you should check the xda link too :307:43
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JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Monday, and happy Miniature Golf Day! 😃09:09
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CaptainHeavyHello :) I've just asked the following question regarding the Messaging app for Ubuntu Touch: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/messaging-app/+question/27161610:02
CaptainHeavyI didn't know whether this had already been addressed and then realised I should have double-checked by asking the question in the IRC here before posting it.  Apologies if its already been answered.10:02
guest42315so guys.. it;s like a week or so since we can't review apps on ubuntu store o_O10:07
guest42315ogra_, the strange thing is i managed to review "match the colour", but i can't review new apps like Monster Wars ^^10:08
popeyJamesTait: ^10:08
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1497305 in unity-scope-click (Ubuntu) "Can't review Monster Wars" [Undecided,Confirmed]10:10
JamesTaitOh, that's weird. I thought that was fixed.10:10
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1497161 in Canonical System Image "Can't add or edit reviews in Ubuntu Store" [Undecided,New]10:10
guest42315i just tried to reivew monster wars and it didn't worked :D10:11
guest42315strange enough is that i've manage to review match the colour10:11
guest42315i'll try to review another old and new app10:11
CaptainHeavyRelated to my question, what is the purpose of being able to select messages in the messaging app?  There doesn't appear to be any actions that can be performed after selecting them (other than deletion)10:12
guest42315same with dinosaur, can't review10:14
guest42315JamesTait, look at the new added apps (0 reviews) https://uappexplorer.com/apps10:15
guest42315monster wars should have had at least 20 reviews by now10:15
JamesTaitThat page does look suspiciously devoid of reviews.10:18
JamesTaitNarrowing it down to just new apps is helpful though.10:18
JamesTaitIIRC it was an "old" app I reviewed (Dekko, I think).10:19
guest42315try reviewing monster wars :D https://uappexplorer.com/app/monsterwars.t-mon10:19
guest42315"10/10 make more levels! or else" something like that10:20
* JamesTait installs another game on his phone, "Just for testing". 😝10:21
guest42315sure :))10:23
JamesTait"2015-09-21 11:27:13,694 - CRITICAL - Network error submitting a reviews for: monsterwars.t-mon10:28
JamesTaitOK, we're looking into it again. Sorry about this.10:30
guest42315JamesTait, no :P10:35
guest42315JamesTait, np10:35
WebVisitor-6I have a laptop with multi-touch support. Out of the box some of the gestures described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch#Supported_Gestures works perfectly.10:45
WebVisitor-6There is one specifically which used to work on my old laptop but which does not on my new one10:45
WebVisitor-6"3 finger press and drag to move window"10:45
WebVisitor-6The laptop has a touchscreen, and that gesture works with the touchscreen if i put three fingers on the screen10:46
WebVisitor-6but it does not work on the mousepad10:46
WebVisitor-6does anyone know what the relationship is between the touchpad and the screen in the synaptic configuration? Why are some of the gestures available on the screen and not on the touchpad, and vice versa?10:46
brendandWebVisitor-6, it depends on the type of touchpad and the driver10:50
brendandWebVisitor-6, a lot of touchpads do not support true multi-touch10:50
brendandWebVisitor-6, they just interpret the gesture in hardware, which may be two finger drag or perhaps side edge drag10:51
brendandWebVisitor-6, whereas a touchscreen is a touchscreen10:51
WebVisitor-6Ah ok but some of the other three- and four-finger gestures work on the touchpad10:52
WebVisitor-6Its a synaptic device as far as i can tell10:52
brendandWebVisitor-6, like which ones? my touchpad is also synaptic but no 3-4 finger gestures work10:55
WebVisitor-6xinput says "ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad"10:59
WebVisitor-6"Virtual core XTEST pointer", "Atmel Atmel maXTouch Digitizer", "ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad"11:00
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jgdxWebVisitor-6, #ubuntu might be of help. “touch” in this channel refers to ubuntu for phones.11:22
jgdxElleo, that maliit restart to get introspection requirement for autopilot is a time sink. Is there a way around it?11:50
Elleojgdx: not that I can think of, other than always running maliit with introspection, but I'd guess there's a runtime cost for that which we don't want to place on all our users11:54
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jgdxElleo, right, that's not wanted. :)12:01
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robin-heroHi! I think I found a very serious "bug" with the unity8 and the indicator-datetime. In the translators message two strftime(3) variables are mixed.12:29
robin-heroThis is from Launchpad indicator-datetime 29th string:12:30
robin-heroen_US example: "%a %d %b %l:%M %p" --> "Fri Oct 31 1:00 PM" en_GB example: "%a %b %d %l:%M %p" --> "Fri 31 Oct 1:00 PM"12:30
robin-heroBut this is wrong. %d is for the day, not for month. And %b is for month, not for day.12:30
robin-heroSorry, If it is not enough clear, the problem is with the Translators Comment on Launchpad12:31
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jgdxrobin-hero, hm, have you suggested the new translation?13:01
daniel_Hello Everyone13:01
daniel_i'm thinking about getting an Ubuntu Touch phone, and i have tested it on my Nexus 7 (flo), but i would like to know a bit more about Ubuntu for phones13:01
jgdxdaniel_, go ahead!13:01
robin-herojgdx: Yes, But need to modify the Translators Comment in the code13:02
daniel_Once i have ubuntu phone, when a new update is released, do i have to wait for my network company to released just like google or simpler like Ubuntu for pc?13:03
ogra_the latter13:03
ogra_all updates for all devices come from a centra ubuntu server currently13:03
ogra_usually around the same time13:03
ogra_(every 6 weeks)13:03
daniel_so it means everyone gets it at once?13:03
ogra_vendors are free to set up their own servers indeed, but today there is no such vendor yet13:04
daniel_so i could say it is similar to an ubuntu pc update?13:04
cwayneit may be phased out over 24hrs or so, but it's certainly nothing like "wait until my carrier says its okay"13:04
lotuspsychjeogra2: so vendors are paying canonical for the server system rental?13:05
daniel_that is really good to know13:05
conallHi All, Im looking to install ubuntu touch on a google nexus one. Is there anywhere I can get an image for it?13:06
lotuspsychje!devices | conall13:06
ubot5conall: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices13:06
daniel_one other question i got is, i think it is a bit hard to know because depends on other companies but, is canonical working on providing android apps or porting them?13:06
ogra_lotuspsychje, no idea, i dont work in sales :P13:06
ogra_perhaps thats part of the contracts13:07
conallThanks for that, yes. However, the nexus one is depricated, so I cant use the "ubuntu-device-flash" method13:07
conallSo I think I need to download the image and use fastboot to flash it?13:07
popeyi dont think we ever supported the nexus one13:08
popeyso no, there is no image for it.13:08
lotuspsychjeconall: you can try the XDA forums for an existing project maybe13:08
daniel_please someone answer me?13:08
popeydaniel_: no, we're not13:09
ogra_no plans, no ... and dont be so impatient :)13:09
daniel_i understand13:09
conallthanks lotuspsychje13:10
lotuspsychjedaniel_: wich app would you need to see ported?13:10
popeyconall: there's pretty much no chance of porting to the nexus one13:10
daniel_skype because i use it everyday13:10
popeydaniel_: ask microsoft :)13:10
daniel_popey: lol as if they would listen13:11
popeyif enough people ask, they listen13:11
daniel_are most of ubuntu apps over html5?13:11
daniel_skype also runs for browsers, what if your browser supports it?13:12
lotuspsychjedaniel_: you can try out an alternative telegram13:12
popeysome are html5, some are qt/qml, some are c++13:12
lotuspsychjedaniel_: no video chats for now though..13:13
popeyskype web doesn't fully work on our browser yet, maybe in the future13:13
daniel_awwn :(13:13
daniel_but still an alternative :)13:13
ogra_once the browser has proper camera and mic integration (as well as WebRTC) it will perhaps13:13
lotuspsychjedaniel_: convince all your friends to change to telegram :p13:13
daniel_lotuspsychje: that will be a challenge :p13:14
lotuspsychjedaniel_: lot of users already use it13:14
daniel_lotuspsychje: when someone ports ubuntu touch to a sony device for example, if a new release is available, will this person have to make a new build or just update from canonical?13:15
popeyif it's an officially supported device, we make the updates13:17
t1mpdoesn't the nexus4 charge when connected to a laptop via a usb cable?13:18
popeyit does, but not fast13:18
t1mpseems like mine is draining instead13:18
ogra_well, and probably doesnt when you actually use it13:18
t1mpfrom 13% to 10%13:18
t1mpah, ok13:18
ogra_a USB port can only supply 500mA max13:19
t1mpI'm reflashing and installing packages and running autopilot tests13:19
ogra_if your device uses more it will drain more than it charges13:19
ogra_yeah, that surely draws more than 500mA13:19
jgdxkenvandine, morning :) ubuntu_system_settings.tests.test_security.SecurityTestCase.test_lock_security_focus_on_entry is flakey.. I'm trying to figure it out. But… do we need that test?13:19
ogra_(and beyond that these 500mA are theoretical ... if your hub inside the laptop is shared the power might be shared too)13:19
kenvandinejgdx, does that test just verify the entry has focus?13:20
jgdxkenvandine, oui13:20
kenvandineso i think we had a bug where that entry didn't get focus automatically, so this test was added to prevent regressions13:20
kenvandinei suspect there is a real bug keeping that entry from getting focus13:21
kenvandineor... it's racy13:21
jgdxkenvandine, the dialog does not appear at all13:21
kenvandinelike not allowing enough time for the entry to get focus?13:21
kenvandineso that's a real problem then right?13:21
jgdxi don't know yet, but that's the reason the test fails13:21
t1mpisn't this supposed to work?13:22
t1mptim@ubuntu:~/.cache$ ubuntu-device-flash --clean-cache13:22
t1mpUnknown command `ubuntu-device-flash'. Please specify one command of: core, query or touch13:22
ogra_well, you didnt specify a command13:22
ogra_(like the message tells you)13:23
jgdxkenvandine, so I'm looking at the test being run on mako, and when it fails, the “Change passcode…” button is tapped (it gets darker) but nothing happens.13:23
kenvandinejgdx, that's not cool13:24
jgdxkenvandine, no it aint.. happens 5-10% of the times run13:24
kenvandinejgdx, but you can only reproduce it in the tests?13:24
t1mpogra_: ahh.. I expected --clean-cache to just wipe my cache, even if I'm not flashing a new image13:25
ogra_t1mp, indeed it will, but it still needs to knwo if it shoudl wipe a snappy cache or a phone cache ... you didnt tell it ;)13:25
t1mpogra_: I'll just rm -rf ~/.cache/ubuntuimages ;)13:26
ogra_why dont you just add the command ?13:26
jgdxkenvandine, i can reproduce the ultimate result (no click and click-effect on the button) by swiping on the button13:27
jgdxkenvandine, but not if I tap it.13:27
kenvandinejgdx, oh... maybe autopilot is broken?13:27
jgdxkenvandine, so I wonder if an autopilot tap is intepreted as a swipe13:27
t1mpogra_: right.. I already deleted the cache directory, and now ubuntu-device-flash --clean-cache touch seems to work. But iirc before it was asking for a device id, which I could have figured out but it is less work for me to just delete the directory13:29
jgdxkenvandine, that would explain why we get failures like the last one here https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-deb-autopilot-runner-vivid-mako/3486/13:30
jgdxkenvandine, the first one is real and I have a fix.13:30
kenvandinejgdx, cool13:31
kenvandinejgdx, what was the fix for the first one?13:31
jgdxkenvandine, it was broken but good. A new page was added and strings the test use were changed, but the test wasn't changed.13:32
robin-heroHey! Sometimes when I push the power button on my device to unlock it, it shows the power off/restart dialog. Anybody experience this?13:38
peter-bittnerMe too, on bq Aquaris E5. This did not happen before the last OTA.13:39
robin-heropeter-bittner: Did you fill a bug report on launchpad?13:39
robin-heroI searched for it on Launchpad, but didn't find any releated13:40
peter-bittnerNo, there are more important things to complain about!  :-)13:40
ogra_there was a bu about it and that was supposed to be fixed13:41
robin-heroogra_: Could you give us a link?13:41
ogra_so worth opening it again or filing a new one13:41
robin-heroOK, I'll filled a new on13:42
* ogra_ doesnt have it handy and is super busy with other stuff atm ... but i know we had one about two OTAs ago ... just file a new one13:42
robin-heroogra_: And for which project? Unity8?13:42
ogra_either that or powerd ... in the end it needs to show up inder canonical-system-image anyway, so you could even file it directly against that13:43
robin-heroFilled: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1498006 peter-bittner: please mark the "affects you".13:46
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1498006 in Canonical System Image "Sometimes the power off/restart menu appears when I push the power button to unlock my phone." [Undecided,New]13:46
peter-bittnerYou're my hero!  ;-)  (just kidding)13:48
daniel_Thanks lotuspsychje popey ogra_ wish you all good luck with ubuntu touch :)13:50
* mterry will buy cyphermox a beer if https://code.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/network-manager/lp1480877-wifi-rm-dup-scan-signals/+merge/271575 gets reviewed in time for OTA7. It's killing me when I walk around my neighborhood :)13:54
lotuspsychjedaniel_: good luck yourself purchasing ubuntu phone :p13:57
robin-herosil2100: Hey! You mentioned in one of your email the translations automatically update every week. But as I see the last update was two weeks ago.14:03
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sil2100robin-hero: hey! Let me look into it later, it should have been all automated now14:11
sil2100Thanks for mentioning14:11
robin-herosil2100: Thanks14:11
cyphermoxmterry: it was on my list of things from Tony to review already, but it's not that obvious a fix14:18
cyphermoxin any case, I added a comment14:18
mterrycyphermox, fair.  I don't know anything about the code itself. I just hate that bug  :)14:19
cyphermoxmterry: yeah, I understand14:19
peter-bittnerA question on Ubuntu desktop (sorry!). Which one is the current default IM client? Still Empathy?14:19
robin-heropeter-bittner: Yes14:20
cyphermoxmaybe even not making this come up in propertiesChanged,, since it's not quite something up to the AP itself, more like internal NM data that users might use, but maybe don't need to be reminded everytime it changes14:20
cyphermoxmterry: ^14:20
peter-bittnerThanks! -- Are there any plans to package Empathy for ARM? (i.e. Ubuntu Touch)14:20
mterrycyphermox, the last-seen property?  ::shrug:: I don't know the rationales there.  but sure14:21
cyphermoxit's something that already existed in NM, but we exposed it for GPS/Wifi triangulation so you could use very recent APs to figure out where you are14:21
awe_cyphermox, my mp fixes a bug that was introduced by the location service14:24
awe_there's no reason to send the same signal 2-3 times in time-span of less than a minute14:25
awe_prior to the location service change14:25
cyphermoxawe_: of course not, still *shrugs* have you discussed it with tvoss or whomever maintains location-service now?14:25
awe_the code all used "schedule_cull_list"14:25
awe_which prevented dups14:25
awe_I added mandel to the review14:25
cyphermoxI would simply rather make sure we make this as least intrusive as possible, and that upstream knows about the changes if they apply to master14:26
cyphermox(which I think they might, now)14:26
awe_again, this was a change that *we* introduced14:26
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cyphermoxsure, but you're proposing to remove some large parts of upstream code14:28
cyphermoxin the end, I defer to your knowledge of the problem matter. I don't look at NM that much nowadays and I know you tested this14:29
cyphermoxI'm just saying that if there's some parts of upstream code that you'd like to change, it would be good to bring it up upstream, resubmit patches and whatnot14:29
awe_the only big removal was bss_updated_cb, and the only thing it was used for was scheduling a scan_list_cull and updating last_seen14:30
awe_since scan_done_cb does this already, it's really not adding anything useful14:30
cyphermoxthen merge it and send the patch upstream, please14:30
awe_again... I'll check, but I'm not sure you pushed the change upstream that caused the problem14:31
awe_but let me check14:31
cyphermoxawe_: I did send it to the ML, no hurt in pushing it again with updates so it's not broken.14:38
awe_k, as mentioned I'll take a look14:38
om26erH! is there a way to change screen brightness through powerd ?14:59
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mterryawe_, does meizu mx4 work with 3g here in the states?  I'm having a hard time finding info online about it15:27
awe_mterry, yes. no lte15:27
mterryah...  looks like yes for at&t anyway...15:27
awe_I use AT&T, and it works fine15:28
mterryawe_, I have metropcs...  let me see if those use the same bands...15:28
awe_not sure if I've tried my T-Mobil SIM, but pretty sure I have15:28
awe_yea.. I think it has 'em all15:28
awe_( for 3g )15:28
mterryawe_, I'm using a nexus 4 right now for personal use, so I'm used to no 4g15:28
awe_wow, old man's phone15:29
mterryawe_, it's not a great phone these days15:29
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pmcgowanogra2, or Laney  should I be able to disable apport simply by changing /etc/default/apport to enabled=0, that file is empty on the phone16:01
ogra_stop pining my snappy testuser :P16:02
ogra_pmcgowan, you should just be able to disable it in the UI as i understand16:03
jibelpmcgowan, but a different setting for stable and proposed would mean a new image to publish to stable16:03
jibeland no way for the user to enable it16:03
pmcgowanogra_, I want apport to not run  the UI just controls whoopsie16:05
popeyjibel: pmcgowan do we have a clear plan for silo 55 (media hub mpris stuff)? Was any decision taken to land it after we looked at the list of gotchas the music guys found?16:06
ogra_pmcgowan, whoopsie controls apport16:06
LaneyI don't think that whoopsie turns apport off16:08
Laneypmcgowan: I think so16:08
ogra_ah, i thought it should16:08
LaneyIt just turns off uploading16:08
popeythe wording in system settings certainly only implies the tickbox is responsible for controlling "sending to canonical" not "filling /var/crash"16:09
davmor2ogra_: Laney is right it turns off uploading which means you disk slowly fills with bug report that sit there16:09
popey(interestingly it's worth noting that the machine ID is fixed, if you sell your phone to someone else and they do a factory reset or wipe, then your crash reports appear with theirs before you bought the phone)16:10
popey(on errors.ubuntu.com)16:10
popey(I have someone elses phone, and I can see their crashes)16:11
jibelogra_, turning off whoopsie addresses privacy concerns but doesn't turn off apport.16:13
ogra_i thought bdmurray had said that was handled internally by whoopsie16:14
ogra_but i obviously mis-remember that16:14
ogra_( Laney is definitely deeper int the code than i ever was :) )16:15
Laneynot that deep16:15
ogra_deeper :)16:15
popeyhm, neverball no longer starts on my rc-proposed phone16:15
popeydid we break mir/sdl?16:15
Laneylike maybe the dermis16:15
popeyworks on my ota-6 phone16:15
ogra_yeah, better than the goosebump surfaces i know :)16:16
ogra_popey, confirmed16:16
popeyfiled https://github.com/pseuudonym404/neverball-touch/issues/1116:16
Laneyhey bart, your epidermis is showing16:17
popeythis is worrying, we broke apps in the store16:17
ogra_seems to crash really early16:17
ogra_like even before the start animation comes up properly16:17
popeyhmm, mediascanner is constantly crashing here on rc-proposed16:27
popeyin a loop -> mediascanner -> apport -> mediascanner -> apport16:27
popeyevery 2 seconds16:28
popeyso, tedg I have a counter-argument to your position that crashing apps aren't a problem :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/12515201/16:29
tedgpopey: ?16:30
tedgI think crashes are a problem :-)16:30
popeypft :)16:31
guest42315OTA7 is a week away, right?16:32
popeyor so16:32
guest42315ish :P16:32
davmor2popey: I see no mediascanner crash16:33
popeyprobably media specific16:33
popeybut there's no log16:33
ogra_guest42315, if there are serious bugs found during QA the OTA will be delayed ... so dont take the date as set in stone, it is just an estimate ... quality > being on time16:33
pmcgowanogra2, Laney hey I lost connection, what was the answer to turn apport off? as it didnt work for me setting that flag16:33
ogra_pmcgowan, Laney claimed (obviously rightly) that whoopsie doesnt turn off apport16:34
pmcgowanbut how does one turn it off on the phone16:34
ogra_by editing /etc7default/approt atm i guess16:34
davmor2pmcgowan: it turns off uploading not apport16:35
ogra_yay, typos galore16:35
pmcgowanogra_, I did that it the service is still running16:35
pmcgowanunless I misunderstand16:35
ogra_you need to reboot16:35
ogra_its not a dynamic toggle16:35
pmcgowanservice --status-all shows apport ?16:35
pmcgowandoes that mean its running16:35
ogra_the upstart job of apport shoudl respect it16:35
pmcgowanpopey, abeato is making fixes to media hub, then need to retest I assume16:36
davmor2popey: I can confirm your neverball issue, possibly one of the many update to mir/qtmir/unity8/ however we do not shockingly start every app in the store to see if we regressed.16:37
popeyok, thanks pmcgowan16:37
popeydavmor2: shouldn't have to, should be backwards compatible16:37
popeydavmor2: shall i file a mir bug do you think?16:38
davmor2popey: well it seems ot be crashing before the app opens, so that to me would suggest that the app calls it's import maybe and dies there. Just checking to see if I see a log file16:39
davmor2popey: Failure to initialize SDL (Failed to connect to the Mir Server)16:40
popeydavmor2: yeah, thats in the github issue16:40
popeyuh. I just disabled apport by putting "enabled=0" in /etc/default/apport and rebooted the phone, now my phone is in a reboot loop!16:40
jibelpmcgowan, this flag controls the upstart job, you first have to stop apport as root, then set enabled=016:40
Laneypmcgowan: cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern ?16:41
jibelnot trivial to do from the UI as phablet16:41
ogra_popey, thou shalt not disable bug reporting !16:43
popeywell this is annoying16:44
popeyphew, managed to ssh in and remove that line from /etc/default/apport before it rebooted again16:44
ogra_and that fixed it ?16:44
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popeydunno, rebooting16:45
ogra_curious how this could break (or fix) the boot16:45
ogra_sounds honestly more like a coincidence16:45
popeypmcgowan: don't set that :)16:46
jibelpopey, can you try again, it's weird.16:46
popeythe only thing I will do is edit /etc/default/apport, add enabled=0, save and reboot16:46
jibelpopey, yes16:47
popeyok, done16:47
popeyit gets as far as unity, the indicators etc, and then reboots.16:48
LaneyI just tried it, worked for me16:48
Laneyforgot what I'm running though16:49
pmcgowanlet me look16:49
popeyi have things crashing though16:49
popeywhich might be what triggers it16:49
jibelpopey, it works fine here, however the core pattern is set to /bad_core_pattern16:49
Laneyunity works so probably ...vivid16:49
popey(mediascanner is crashing in a loop for me)16:49
jibelinstead of core16:49
Laneyphablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern16:49
popeyso maybe if one of you can turn it on and try and orchestrate a crash of some kind16:50
popeyto see if that triggers the reboot16:50
pmcgowanLaney, I get "/bad_core_pattern"16:50
popeysame here16:51
pmcgowanpopey, jibel  what is working for you/16:51
LaneyI don't even know what that means16:51
popeypmcgowan: if I set enabled=0 and reboot, my phone goes into a reboot loop. I suspect because I have a mediascanner problem (it's crashing constantly) which is probably triggering the reboot.16:51
popeyThis is on krillin, my rc-proposed phone16:52
pmcgowanLaney, popey how do I check that apport is actually disabled, as it shows up in the service list16:52
jibelpmcgowan, apport doesn't generate a crash report16:52
Laneyif you don't have apport in the core_pattern then crashes won't be passed to it16:52
Laneycheck it on your desktop16:53
Laneythat's how it works16:53
popeybah, undone the edit to /etc/default/apport but now it's kept /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern as /bad_core_pattern and my phone keeps rebooting :(16:53
ogra_popey, i still wonder if its a coincidence ... there is a watchdog that cyphermox implemented that force-reboots if upstart processes go into a loop16:56
popeythat seems somewhat unuseful16:56
ogra_yeah, it should stop at some point and pop up "call the support" or some such :)16:56
popeyi have barely a few seconds during the boot process in which I can ssh in and fix stuff16:57
popeyany idea how I can make this not-broken?16:58
* ogra_ has no clue about the watchdog 16:58
ogra_(*if* that is what kicks in)16:58
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD
=== ogra2 is now known as ogra-snappy-test
sergiusenspopey, ogra_ flash an adb enabled recovery image and edit from there maybe?17:19
ogra_yeah, if all else fails17:19
popeyediting the file doesn't make any difference now, it's just in a constant reboot loop17:27
ogra_yeah, i guess its the watchdog rather than the file17:27
ogra_there should be messages soemwhere ... either in syslog or dmesg17:28
popeywhy on earth would rebooting be the right thing to do when you have a crashy process?17:28
popeyfrom what?17:28
ogra_popey, dont ask me :P17:28
* ogra_ never liked that idea ... 17:28
ogra_i think android does something similar17:28
ogra_cyphermox, is there a way to intercept the reboot loop you get when watchdog kicks in ?17:29
popeyhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/12515647/ that's all I get from syslog17:30
popeySep 21 17:29:43 ubuntu-phablet session-watchdog: 'mediascanner-2.0' (instance '') hit respawn limit - asking logind to reboot17:30
ogra_Sep 21 17:29:43 ubuntu-phablet session-watchdog: 'mediascanner-2.0' (instance '') hit respawn limit - asking logind to reboot17:30
popeyecho manual >> ~/.config/upstart/mediascanner-2.0.override17:31
popeymight do it17:31
ogra_degraded mode :)17:31
ogra_i guess you could do the same for the watchdog17:32
ogra_iirc it is an upstart job too17:32
dobeyjdstrand: hi. what's the landing process for apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu changes? is it appropriate to add an MP for that to a silo in ci train?17:32
popeyright, got my phone to stop rebooting with that17:33
pmcgowanjamesh, why would this be after disabling apport? cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern17:34
ogra_pmcgowan, i think thats an android kernel default17:42
ogra_to prevent crating any core files at all17:42
jibelpmcgowan, what ogra said, it is set by the kernel depending on the platform17:42
jibelie different devices will have different default pattern17:43
jdstranddobey: we don't do MP builds for apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu, but an MP is fine. but this needs discussion because it requires changing the default template17:43
ogra_it usually says "core" in other kernels17:43
jdstranddobey: which will trigger a recompile of a lot of app policy17:43
ogra_which would create a /tmp/core  file if somethionng crashes17:43
ogra_(including a 1:1 copy of your ram)17:43
jdstranddobey: and that is something we try to minimize in stable updates17:44
jdstrandthere is something else that people want that will trigger rebuilds, so they should land together if they are supposed to land on the device17:44
jdstrand(related to frameworks)17:45
pmcgowanogra_, jibel I tried setting the pattern to core but on reboot it resets to the default again17:45
jdstrandbut, long story short, the MP to the project is fine (I have it on my todo list already)17:45
ogra_pmcgowan, yeah17:45
ogra_and you really dont want it set to core17:46
ogra_would eat your disk17:46
dobeyjdstrand: hmm, ok. does jenkins monitor MPs for that project? what's the best way to get it installed on a device for testing?17:46
pmcgowanlet me see if enable apport will set it back17:46
ogra_it does, i just checked the apport upstart job17:46
jdstranddobey: it does not. we upload to the ppa17:48
jdstranddobey: so, just prepare a deb like you would for the archive, then dpkg -i it17:49
dobeyjdstrand: right. i was just hoping that i could point at one in jenkins or such. would it make sense for you to manually upload a package to our silo ppa, so we can test the whole stack there, prior to it landing in the overlay ppa?17:51
cyphermoxogra_: nothing I can think of right this minute. You'd have to get in recovery and modify the job I think17:54
jdstranddobey: I can, but this package may be changing in other ways for the eventual landing (the aforementioned landing together)17:55
jdstrandproblem is, not sure what that is going to look like yet17:55
ogra_cyphermox, yeah, i think popey solved it differently17:55
dobeyjdstrand: sure17:55
cyphermoxyeah, I see17:55
popeywell, worked around it17:56
jdstranddobey: so, can you add a comment in the MP on what you'd like from us/me for you to test this?17:57
dobeyjdstrand: sure.17:58
george_eQuick question... is there a way to build the click package for an app from the command line instead of Qt Creator? I'd like the click package to target armhf.18:23
george_eI'd also like to build the armhf chroot from the command line as well.18:23
george_eIs this possible?18:23
peter-bittner$ click build .18:25
george_eI tried that but it targets amd64 (my host) instead of armhf.18:25
peter-bittnerWhat's in you manifest.json?18:27
peter-bittnerThere is an "architecture" property, not sure though whether it makes a difference for the build tool.18:28
pmcgowanogra_, still around?18:29
ogra_pmcgowan, yep18:29
george_epeter-bittner oh, oops. Indeed there is and it's set to amd64 :P18:29
pmcgowanogra_, why is /etc/default/apport on the phones empty vs containing the same contents as desktop?18:29
pmcgowanis it coming from a tarball ?18:29
ogra_pmcgowan, because we dont use apport but apport-noui ...18:30
ogra_so it isnt the same as on desktop18:30
pmcgowanogra_, apport is installed though18:31
pmcgowanand dpkg tells me the file is from that package18:31
pmcgowanoh maybe not18:31
pmcgowanyeah it does18:31
peter-bittnerHas porting Empathy (the instant messenger) to armhf / Ubuntu Touch been discussed here or on the mailing list before?18:32
ogra_phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ mount|grep default/apport18:35
ogra_/dev/mmcblk0p16 on /etc/default/apport type ext4 (rw,relatime,discard,nodelalloc,data=journal)18:35
pittipmcgowan: if you put "enabled=0" into /etc/default/apport it should not start at boot, and consequently not trigger whoopsie either18:35
ogra_because we mount an empty writable file on top18:35
ogra_phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ grep default/apport /etc/system-image/writable-paths18:37
ogra_/etc/default/apport                     auto                    persistent  none        none18:37
pmcgowanpitti, yeah that seems to work, I would like to do it conditionally based on the channel18:37
ogra_the first "none" there should have been "transition"18:37
popeythis could make things worse for some people18:37
pmcgowanhow so18:37
popeywe should consider making this default after caring for the watchdog18:37
ogra_popey, not really18:37
popeywell, you could get into the situation I'm in18:38
popeysomething crashy, watchdog jumps in and reboots the device18:38
ogra_sure, but the default file wouldnt have helped there18:38
ogra_thats a watchdog thing18:38
popeythat didn't happen with apport enabled because there was time bwteeen each restart of process18:38
popeyno, the default _harmed_ me here18:38
popeythats my point18:38
ogra_how would it harm you there ?18:38
popey(if apport disabled had been default, I'd be in a reboot loop and no way to get out easily)18:38
ogra_empty is not different from enabled=118:39
popeywhich is arguably worse than crash dumping which slows the phone18:39
popeyno, I'm not making this clear.18:39
ogra_it is absolutely identical18:39
popeyno no18:39
pmcgowanenabled=0 caused his grief18:39
popeyI'm saying if you make the default enabled=0, it will make it _worse_ for some people18:39
ogra_yeah, agreed18:39
popeyunless watchdog is cared for also18:39
pmcgowanso yeah we need that fixed18:39
ogra_because the watchdog will force-reboot you all the time18:40
pmcgowanpopey, do you have aenough for a bug for that?18:40
ogra_by design18:40
popeydoing now18:40
popeyagainst system image?18:40
ogra_well, it is multiple bugs18:40
popeysure, apport is one, I assume pmcgowan has a bug for making that off by default already?18:40
popey"my" bug is watchdog being to agressive18:40
ogra_/etc/default/apport being empty is one ... someone needs to review the wtachdog concept18:41
* ogra_ never really got the rationale behind this 18:41
pmcgowanwhat implements this watchdog?18:42
* popey files a bug18:43
ogra_pmcgowan, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart-watchdog/0.318:43
popeyhttps://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart-watchdog/+bugs zarro boogs!18:43
ogra_bugfree \o/18:43
* popey feels blessed to file the first one18:43
ogra_just make your system writable and it wont reboot :P18:44
ogra_(is what the changelog for 0.3 says)18:44
popeypmcgowan: bug 149813318:47
ubot5bug 1498133 in upstart-watchdog (Ubuntu) "Watchdog is too aggressive, can lead to unusable device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149813318:47
pmcgowanwill mark the other with a pointer18:47
pmcgowanogra_, where does the bug go about the empty file?18:49
ogra_it ships /etc/system-image/writable-paths18:49
pmcgowanok I have a task for that already18:49
ogra_and looking closer the implementation is completely wrong18:50
pmcgowanoh my18:51
ogra_it should use the same setup as hostanme and timezone use ... (being a link to /etc/writable, then teh content would have been there ...)18:51
ogra_(i think i noted that in the original bug)18:51
pmcgowanogra_, where did you note it?18:53
ogra_in the original bug about "not being able to swithc of bug reporting" i think18:54
pmcgowanok will find it18:54
ogra_well, if not, just add it as pointer for the dev implementing it18:55
ogra_i might misremember18:55
pmcgowanso should it not be in writeable_paths at all?18:56
pmcgowanogra_, ?18:56
pmcgowanogra_, seince its not directly in /etc isnt it ok as it is in the paths file?18:59
ogra_well, you want it in /etc/writable (thats a writable dir) and have /etc/default/apport being a link to it ... putting it into /etc/writable and creating the link actually needs to happen at build time (livecd-rootfs task)19:03
ogra_pmcgowan, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/ubuntu-touch/hooks/03-etc-writable.chroot is the code that handles the other files (feel free to link in the bug)19:03
pmcgowanogra_, ok thanks, so does it still need to live in writeable_paths? I do not see hostname there19:05
ogra_pmcgowan, no, actually not19:06
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk
pmcgowanpopey, so, why would you not get a boot loop  if apport was enabled?19:13
popeybecause apport would slow down the interval between one crash and the next19:13
popeyas it spits out junk in /var/crash19:13
pmcgowanso help me, why does slowing it down fix the boot loop?19:14
pmcgowanwouldnt it just reboot later19:14
popeyi think from what ogra_ was saying, the watchdog thing notices something respawning _really_ rapidly19:14
popeywhich, without apport, mediascanner (for me) was doing19:14
popey_with_ apport it crashes the same amount, but there's a delay between one and the next19:15
popeyso I presume watchdog is look for N crashes per X seconds19:15
popeyand apport makes X longer19:15
popeyso doesn't trigger the reboot19:15
pmcgowanhmm ok19:16
pmcgowanso what was this fixing I wonder19:16
popeygood question :)19:17
popeyi have no email anywhere about it19:18
popeygrepping irc finds https://launchpad.net/bugs/139435019:18
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1394350 in Canonical System Image "[ubuntu-touch] system not recovering automatically when a critical service reaches the upstart respawn limit" [Undecided,In progress]19:18
ogra_thats the thing that forces the reboot19:18
ogra_start on stopped RESULT="failed" PROCESS="respawn"19:18
pmcgowanyeah I see that19:19
popeyso it fixes an issue with upstart not restarting thing19:19
ogra_means essentially: if any process respawns19:19
pmcgowanoh this is broken19:19
ogra_well, there is a respawn limit built into upstart19:19
ogra_so it will only restart after "n" occurences19:20
ogra_i.e. if a process goes into a loop19:20
pmcgowanbut it must assume it will not fail on that reboot, which is not the case19:20
ogra_a single crash with respawn wouldnt cause it19:20
popeywhich is what gives me ~30 seconds before my phone reboots19:21
popeyas mediascanner restarts that many times until watchdog says "no, reboot"19:21
ogra_so it worked corectly as designed :)19:21
pmcgowanso it needs more smarts to see the respawns were all on the same boot or something19:21
popeythe respawns _were_ all in the same boot19:22
ogra_the design was made between awe_ cyphermox and ricardo ...19:22
popeyit _assumes_ a reboot would "fix" it19:22
cyphermoxpopey: correct, it *assumes* a reboot would fix it19:22
ogra_iirc there were plans to actually notify recovery about that and to have a crash handler in the recovery img19:22
popeycyphermox: :)19:22
cyphermoxand if it doesn't, time to go in recovery and reflash, basically19:22
ogra_which tells you to call the support19:22
ogra_that would kick in if it notices a reboot loop19:23
cyphermoxthat never went in, because some disagreed it was the right thing to do19:23
ogra_i think the recovery part was never implemented19:23
popeyall this because I have some dodgy artwork on an mp3 :S19:23
awe_pmcgowan, basically we had an instance where an indicator would crash and respawn and hit the limit19:23
cyphermox(or wasn't a priority, I don't recall)19:23
pmcgowanbut help me out, if we just let it boot without the service, the user could get an update that maybe fixes it19:23
ogra_cyphermox, i think we never got the UI bits for it19:23
ogra_and it was low prio19:23
awe_and we decided that we should monitor system jobs and if any of them got into this state19:23
awe_that rebooting was the best solution19:23
popeys/best/least worst/ :)19:24
awe_pretty sure ricmm added the job19:24
ogra_awe_, the prob is that the rebooting never stops today :)19:24
ogra_awe_, cyphermox did19:24
pmcgowanbut in this case the cure was worse than the symptom19:24
cyphermoxright. one thing would be to whitelist specific services that are absolutely required, but we had initially agreed everything on the system was necessary, IIRC19:24
cyphermoxpopey: dodgy artwork shouldn't crash mediascanner though :/19:25
awe_yes, pretty sure we were aware that in certain instances the rebooting could continue... and at that point, it was time to send the phone back19:25
ogra_i think for now turning it off, getting the recovery side implemented and then re-enabling it is the proper path19:25
popeycyphermox: true, but this chain of events leads to "take the phone for service"19:25
pmcgowanyeah we dont want that19:25
awe_popey, yes... we understood that19:25
cyphermoxindeed; this is meant more for the finished product than when we're developing on it19:25
pmcgowanwe want the user to get the next update that fixes it19:25
awe_at some point, the phones may be broken enough that they need to get sent back19:25
ogra_cyphermox, this is happening on the finished product :)19:25
cyphermoxogra_: is it?19:25
pmcgowannot really it happened on proposed19:26
awe_if the phone boots every time and a criticial service like NM won't start.  How's the user supposed to fix that?19:26
pmcgowanbut still seems dangerous19:26
ogra_pmcgowan, but only popey sees it ...19:26
cyphermoxawe_: flashing a clean image should never have NM not start.19:26
ogra_pmcgowan, what makes you sure it isnt a file that makes mediascanner crash19:26
popeyogra_: how many people have disabled apport?19:26
cyphermoxthe fix is to flash a clean, non-buggy image.19:26
awe_cyphermox, I'm talking about a customer device19:26
ogra_popey, well, that the watchdog doesnt work when apport is enabled is a bug19:27
cyphermoxawe_: then I'm not sure I follow19:27
* guest42315 snappy <319:27
awe_if a phone gets in such a state that a critical service can't start, there's not much we can do19:27
cyphermoxawe_: right19:27
ogra_popey, you should actually have seen it even with apport enabled19:27
pmcgowandepends on which service o?19:27
awe_and yes, we discussed that you could get into an infinite reboot scenario19:27
ogra_awe_, but there were plans to make you end up in recovery19:27
popeyogra_: no, because apport slowed down the respawns19:27
cyphermoxawe_: but rebooting *might* fix it if the user has just been doing someting funny.19:27
awe_but I also recall discussing some kind of throttling19:27
awe_cyphermox, correct, which is why we reboot19:28
ogra_popey, yes, thats a bug, preventing watchdog from doing what it is supposed to do19:28
ogra_popey, you would sit forever with a slow phone19:28
popeyI did :)19:28
ogra_and no media access :)19:28
cyphermoxawe_: ok, so it looks like you all have a firm grasp on it, I'll let y'all work and get back to my grub bugs :)19:28
awe_cyphermox, updated all the MPs by the way...19:28
pmcgowanawe_, throtttling the reboots or what?19:29
ogra_cyphermox, haha ... nobody will work on it ... at least nobody from the people discussing here19:29
cyphermoxi will review again $very_late_tonight19:29
awe_pmcgowan, yea... throttling reboots19:29
awe_cyphermox, thanks!19:29
awe_pmcgowan, but not sure that got implemented19:29
pmcgowanI dont see it19:29
awe_pmcgowan, I think I said we thought about it, but it didn't get implemented19:30
cyphermoxthrottling reboots might prove difficult, but if we had the recovery mechnism when in a loop, that might fare better if we also provide the user a way to disable the watchdog19:30
pmcgowanand we knew of cases where are process respawned and rebooting fixed it?19:30
ogra_awe_, we were waiting for design to come back with UI elements for recovery and then it was supposed to boot into recovery after n reboots19:30
ogra_that never happened19:30
awe_pmcgowan, this whole thing stemmed from an indicator-network bug19:30
awe_and I asked what happens if upstart stops a critical process due to respawn limits19:30
* pmcgowan thinks about reports of boot loops in the wild19:31
ogra_i dont think throttling was on the plate in the end19:31
awe_ogra_, I think it slid off the plate19:31
ogra_pmcgowan, yeah, popey's respawn could be caused by a bad file mediascanner cant handle19:31
ogra_and could also already be on customer ohones out there19:32
pmcgowanyeah this is scaring me19:32
awe_ogra_, by the way, for the syslog problem mentioned earlier.  The fix is just to ensure that /var/log is owned by group="syslog", correct?19:32
=== dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader
ogra_awe_, yes19:32
cyphermoxpmcgowan: can we get stats about that?19:32
awe_ogra_, thanks19:32
pmcgowancyphermox, I can try, its usually anecdotal19:32
* popey looks at his mediascanner logs to see when this first happened19:32
cyphermoxyeah :/19:32
popeygrrr, developers who don't put date/timestamps in logs grind my gears :)19:34
ogra_popey, when you copied the nasty movie onto your phone ... it is the new parental-control in mediascanner, have your partents type in the right code and you can use it again ;)19:34
popeyok dad19:34
awe_pmcgowan, I thought we'd only added the watchdog for system services, but I see there's a session version too19:35
popeymy first mediascanner crash was 5am yesterday.19:36
popeybeen crashing every 3 minutes since19:36
pmcgowanawe_, is there two? I only see one get installed19:36
ogra_did you use it at 5am ?19:36
popeyme? 5am? are you serious?19:36
mcphailogra_: that's when his phone downloads the Ubuntu-UK podcast19:37
ogra_well, i wonder how it can happen out of the blue19:37
popeyhe's joking :)19:37
ogra_so these guys spread malicious files !!19:37
ogra_tainted oggs19:37
ogra_popey, disk full ? (just to state the obvious)19:37
popeygood call19:38
popeyquite full19:38
popey[M#pC/dev/mmcblk1p1                                30G   20G  9.6G  68% /media/phablet/2541-1C2619:38
popey[M#e+/dev/mmcblk0p7                               4.1G  3.8G   82M  98% /home19:38
popeythere have been log rotations, so could have blown up at that point, for sure19:38
popeywould disk full be reported somewhere else?19:38
ogra_yeah, 82M isnt much19:39
ogra_in the UI19:39
popeyno, i mean in a log19:39
ogra_ciborium ships a popup message19:39
ogra_and that should have kicked in at 95% i think19:39
popeywhich I wouldn't see19:39
awe_pmcgowan, there's session-watchdog and system-watchdog19:39
ogra_not sure ... its the same UI as the low battery warning19:40
ogra_does that one time out ?19:40
pmcgowanawe_, I dont see the system one gets installed, where is that one19:41
awe_check /etc/init, where all the system jobs live19:41
awe_damn you're quick ogra_19:41
pmcgowanthere is a bug on the full disk warning too I think you can miss it19:41
ogra_i have a terminal to the phone open and looked for it before ;)19:42
ogra_pmcgowan, ah, popey probably has then19:42
ogra_iirc the threshold was at 95%19:42
popeymy apport log is entertaining http://termbin.com/3n6h19:42
pmcgowanpopey, so is it related to a data file then?19:43
popeyI still don't know really.19:45
popeyI mean, it's plausible my disk is full, and some random process (in this case mediascanner) dies19:45
popeyI'll delete some crap and see if mediascanner still crashes19:45
ogra_it might try to index something and the db gets to big19:45
ogra_or might have tried and now you have a corrupt db19:46
ogra_or some such19:46
ogra_files from /var/crash get deleted by cron .. so it is entirely possible the disk was at 100% at some point in the last days19:46
pmcgowanyeah 80 MB is certainly too close19:49
popeynah, loads of disk space free and ms is still crashing and still getting a reboot loop19:50
popeygonna copy the ms database off the phone, delete it and reboot19:50
popeyso it has a fresh db, maybe it's corrupt19:50
ogra_i think corrupt db is more likely19:51
ogra_caused by full disk perhaps :)19:51
popeyok, moved the db, mediascanner lives, phone doesn't reboot19:53
popeyso, probable cause, disk full, ms crash, phone reboots19:53
popeyms should detect a duff database and delete it :)19:53
pmcgowanpopey, sounds like another bug with that bad db19:53
pmcgowanpopey, all time record, 5 bugs for one issue19:54
popey3.2MB is quite a size for my mediascanner db!19:56
pmcgowanpopey, so did we really decide if turningoff apport made any difference? it shouldnt given it skips the crash file one one exists19:58
ogra_well, it makes watchdog function properly19:58
pmcgowanogra_, which bug is that then19:59
popeywell the difference for my situation was with apport on, there was a much longer time between reboots19:59
pmcgowaneven to do nothing?19:59
popeywith it on, it writes out to /var/crash19:59
pmcgowanpopey, not if there is already a crash there19:59
popeyso it's not doing nothing19:59
pmcgowanthats waht your log is full of20:00
popeyit still sat there and chugged20:00
popeyi was watching top and apport was right up there with upstart and mediascanner20:00
pmcgowanhmm then  I am unclear what it does20:00
pmcgowancrash already exists and unseen, doing nothing to avoid disk usage20:01
guest42315popey, https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/149816920:07
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1498169 in Canonical System Image "some logs in .cache/upstart are missing date/timestamps" [Undecided,New]20:07
popeyguest42315: ta :)20:08
kd__i am looking to install ubuntu on handheld device20:08
kd__how should i prepate my desktop for it?20:09
kd__can someone please help20:09
dobeykd__: you're porting to a new device? or you're flashing onto a supported device?20:10
popeykd__: what device?20:10
kd__i have old phone20:11
kd__which is now being used20:11
kd__i want to try on it20:11
kd__its on android 2.220:12
kd__*its not being used20:12
popeyUbuntu won't run on that.20:12
popeyIs it a Nexus One by any chance?20:12
kd__ohh is it... whats requirement for ubuntu on handheld?20:12
kd__it is samsung galaxy some model i dont remember20:13
popey!devices | kd__20:14
ubot5kd__: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices20:14
atk33hello, there is a way to install ubuntu touch on the meizu mx4 international?20:46
dobeyatk33: if it came with android i think you need to get the tools from meizu to be able to repartition it and allow flashing it with ubuntu-device-flash20:59
atk33yes is coming from meizu with flyos21:00
atk33but the bootloader is locked apparently21:00
dobeyyes, you'll need to ask meizu support for how to unlock it, i think21:02
jason__Is there a way to check what version of an app is on my phone from the phone UI itself?  Or is that something that requires ssh-ing into the phone, or some other process?21:30
jason__I'm trying to report some bugs, and I want to figure out what version of different things I'm running21:30
dobeyjason__: if you install the terminal app you can run "click list" in it21:35
jason__Ah, that brings me to my next question.  I can't find the Terminal in the Ubuntu App Store.  I search "Terminal" and don't see anything relevant.  Has anyone run into this before?21:36
jason__thanks btw dobey21:36
dobeyno, the terminal is definitely in the store21:41
jason__hmm, I've tried a few times.  I'll give it another shot I guess.21:47
jason__Tried again and it was there.  Not sure what my original issue was.  But thanks again for the pointer on "click list".21:51
popeyor just long press on an app21:51
popeyit tells you the version number21:51
mcphailIs there any way to get a changelog from the "Updates" screen yet?21:53
mcphailShame. Would be a nice addition21:57
=== curtness is now known as strahtw

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