[13:16] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, What is the status of linux-raspi2?
[13:16] <flexiondotorg>  linux-raspi2 | 4.2.0-1008.10 | wily-proposed/universe | source
[13:16] <flexiondotorg>  linux-raspi2 | 4.2.0.1008.9  | wily-proposed/universe | armhf
[13:17] <flexiondotorg> Will it be promoted to the release pocket before beta 2?
[13:19] <ogra_> flexiondotorg, see backlog in #ubuntu-release :)
[13:29] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, What does that ^^^^ mean to a layman like me? :-)
 http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html ... "linux-raspi2-tools-4.2.0-1008/armhf unsatisfiable Depends: linux-raspi2-tools-common "
 we probably want to drop the tools :)
 hmm
 i doubt anyone in snappy will use them
 (and i'm not sure how well suited the kernel will be for non-snappy setups)
 ogra_, yup, will do.
[17:00] <infinity> ogra_: Eh.  How does one make a snappy-specific kernel, and why would we do such a thing?
[17:01] <ogra_> infinity, it might have config options that arent desired in "normal" systems
[17:01] <infinity> ogra_: Like?
[17:01] <ogra_> no idea, i didnt make the config :P
[17:01] <infinity> ogra_: We're using the x86 generic kernel for x86 snappy, so that sounds like a BS argument.
[17:02] <ogra_> just saying i'm not sure it is suposed to be re-used outside of the snappy scope it was developed for
[17:02] <ogra_> else we'd have used -generic with a RPi specific DT
[17:02] <infinity> ogra_: And most of the components on snappy weren't "meant to be used outside the classic server scope they were designed for", good thing no one made that arbitrary restriction.
[17:03] <infinity> ogra_: No, we couldn't use -generic because it's missing a ton of drivers/patches to actually work on rpi2. :P
[17:03] <ogra_> ah
[17:03] <infinity> ogra_: This kernel is about enablement, not some snappy-only love-in.
[17:03] <ogra_> thats not how i understood it, but then it is fine indee
[17:03] <ogra_> d
[17:04] <ogra_> (i highly doubt you will make any graphical stuff work on it as is ... but indeed i might be wrong)
[17:05] <infinity> ogra_: I mean having a separate source package is about enablement.  Yes, the driving force behind supporting the rpi2 at all is snappy, but it's ridiculous to limit it to just one use-case.
[17:06] <ogra_> (well, perhaps via the fbdev xserver if that still exists )
[17:06] <infinity> ogra_: Like if I told you that I'm building packageX with options that make it unsuitable for snappy because screw you, it's a server package. :P
[17:07] <ogra_> well, it was created for cloud and embedded use for now ... nobody looked at making kms graphical stuff work or anything so re-using it for desktop enabled might or might not work
[17:07] <ogra_> thats all i'm sying
[17:07] <ogra_> *enablement
[17:09] <infinity> ogra_: Sure, did I say anything about graphics? :P
[17:09] <infinity> ogra_: Dropping tools and debug symbols made it unsuitable for anyone doing any debugging on a deb-based system (or, alternately, for anyone who wants to sort out how to deb2snap those bits to debug on a snappy system, if you want to pretend snappy is the whole world).
[17:09] <ogra_> the config in use was created based on requested snappy requirements ... so nobody can guarantee anything outside of that scope
[17:10] <ogra_> i dont say that
[17:10] <infinity> ogra_: Either way.  The argument is silly.  If we're using generic kernels elsewhere, this one should have a config review and be a generic kernel, not a unique snowflake.
[17:10] <ogra_> i just say it was driven by snappy and nobody looked into making it work in any other context yet
[17:10] <infinity> If something is "necessary for snappy", it's necessary on all platforms, not just rpi.
[17:11] <infinity> ogra_: I'm slightly amused about "other contexts".  Other than how it boots, snappy and regular old ubuntu server are effectively identical. :P
[17:11] <infinity> (Well, how it installs, boots, and manages packages, but the userspace is the same)
[17:11] <ogra_> not sure ...
[17:12] <ogra_> i.e. the RPi uses a very specific bootloader setup ...
[17:12] <ogra_> you cant just use DTs from uboot
[17:12] <infinity> That's not snappy-specific.
[17:12] <infinity> That's rpi2 specific.
[17:12] <ogra_> no. thats RPi specific
[17:12] <infinity> Yeah.
[17:12] <infinity> So, again.  There's nothing snappy about this kernel.
[17:12] <infinity> Anyhow.  I'm done ranting.
[17:13] <ogra_> ok :)
[17:13] <infinity> And I yelled at Tim for listening to you about dropping half his package. :P
[17:13] <ogra_> well, we used to drop the tools in the past from the arm kernels
[17:13] <infinity> (And, for the record, there are people, including our own kernel engineers, running non-snappy Ubuntu on rpi2, cause snappy itself is a crap development/debugging environment)
[17:13] <infinity> ogra_: No we didn't.
[17:14] <infinity> ogra_: Unless you mean some distant past 6 years ago.
[17:14] <ogra_> we definitely did
[17:14] <ogra_> for at least 10 kernels i had to work with in the last 5 years
[17:14] <infinity> ogra_: ti-omap4 and armadaxp and keystone (all the ones we still support) have tools.
[17:14] <infinity> ogra_: The linaro kernels didn't, but they were crap.
[17:14] <ogra_> since when does omap have tools ?
[17:14] <infinity> Since always.
[17:14] <ogra_> i know we had to explicitly rip them out for years
[17:15] <ogra_> that must have happened after 12.04
[17:15] <infinity> 12.04 was a long time ago now. :P
[17:15] <infinity> Time to get with the times, grandpa. ;)
[17:15] <ogra_> 12.04 was when we dropped tthe panda :)
[17:16]  * ogra_ shakes his cane
[17:16] <ogra_> well, post 12.04 was