=== chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun
[08:07] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Does the linux-raspi2 kernel also provide the bootloader?
[08:07] <ogra_> nope
[08:07] <flexiondotorg> OK, where does Snappy get that from then?
[08:08] <ogra_> from the oem snap
[08:08] <ogra_> (soon to be renamed to gadget snap)
[08:09] <flexiondotorg> Right, so this is a snap tool that provides the required device specific "stuff"?
[08:09] <ogra_> no, its a snap developer who does :)
[08:09] <flexiondotorg> So, I know practically nothing about Snappy.
[08:10] <ogra_> there is no tool beyond "snappy build" to finally assemble the snap from a tree of binaries
[08:10] <flexiondotorg> I'm not doing Snappy for Ubuntu MATE (yet).
[08:10] <flexiondotorg> I know how to put the boot loader etc in the right places and have debs for that.
[08:10] <ogra_> yeah, you probably dont want to yet
[08:10] <flexiondotorg> But I'm interested to understand the mechanis for this with snappy.
[08:11] <ogra_> for snappy you need to try to think out of debs and closer to upstream
[08:11] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Yeah I've been told to not adopt snappy just yet.
[08:11] <flexiondotorg> Before :-)
[08:11] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, I understand the concept of snappy, just not how a snappy OS if created.
[08:11] <flexiondotorg> but, I've got my answer.
[08:11] <ogra_> a snap is just a collection of binaries and glue between them, how these binaries are produced is up to the person making the snap
[08:12] <flexiondotorg> I can used the linux-raspi2 kernel (when available) and I'll have to provide the bootloader, firmware and GPU drivers myself.
[08:12] <ogra_> right
[08:12] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, So the snap binaries.
[08:12] <flexiondotorg> This is a prebuilt OS for different architectures?
[08:13] <ogra_> we might focus on getting the free graphics driver to work
[08:13] <flexiondotorg> A generic rootfs, if you will?
[08:13] <ogra_> so this might end up in the archive proper
[08:13] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, OK cool.
[08:13] <ogra_> the snappy OS is similar to the phone today ...
[08:13] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, The is also the fbturbo driver that is 2D accelerated for Pi2.
[08:14] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Understood.
[08:14] <ogra_> you have a generic rootfs and a device tarball that carries all device specific bits
[08:14] <flexiondotorg> And can I create my own "device tarball"?
[08:14] <ogra_> the oem snp from above describes that combo and ships everything necessary to boot
[08:14] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, BTW, thanks for answering all these questions.
[08:14] <ogra_> np :)
[08:14] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, OK, thanks.
[08:15] <flexiondotorg> After 15.10 I think I'm going to spend to first couple of week into 16.04 playing with snappy.
[08:15] <ogra_> the oem snap can also describe what app snaps you have preinstalled ... and even potentially ship default confis for them
[08:15] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Am I right that snappy is not suited for graphical applications right now?
[08:15] <ogra_> so it is very easy to build an appliance for example
[08:16] <ogra_> there is some Mir demo snap for amd64 i think, so it is "a little" suited :)
[08:16] <flexiondotorg> OK
[08:16] <ogra_> but far from ready for general use
[08:16] <flexiondotorg> Xmir?
[08:16] <ogra_> not sure if it includes Xmir
[08:16] <flexiondotorg> OK
[08:16] <flexiondotorg> Finally, app snaps.
[08:17] <flexiondotorg> Are these discrete apps that can have inter apps dependencies or are they everything you need for a full stack app?
[08:17] <flexiondotorg> More precisely.
[08:17] <ogra_> well, imagine them as "metapackage on steroids"
[08:17] <ogra_> or "project packages"
[08:18] <flexiondotorg> If I wanted to make a snap of Discourse, would everything required by Discourse be in a single app snap?
[08:18] <flexiondotorg> Like I do it with Docker now.
[08:18] <ogra_> i.e. i'm currently packaging a mailserver snap ... that consistes of dovecot, postfix, spamassasin and the bits needed to make them work together
[08:18] <flexiondotorg> Ok, understood.
[08:19] <flexiondotorg> So, in the future, if I wanted to make Snappy MATE the whole desktop and all compoents applications would be a single app snap?
[08:19] <ogra_> yeah ... plus application snaps
[08:20] <flexiondotorg> So, MATE desktop would be one snap. Firefox another. LibreOffice another and so on?
[08:20] <ogra_> i.e the whole basic desktop would be one single one ... and then you have a libreoffice and a firefox snap on top
[08:20] <ogra_> heh
[08:20] <flexiondotorg> Exactly.
[08:20] <flexiondotorg> Cool.
[08:20] <ogra_> *snap*
[08:20] <ogra_> :)
[08:20] <flexiondotorg> :-D
[08:20] <flexiondotorg> In 10 minutes you taught me everything I needed to know.
[08:21] <ogra_> haha
[08:21] <ogra_> there is also #snappy btw :)
[08:21] <flexiondotorg> OOh.
[08:21] <flexiondotorg> And joined. Thanks.
[08:21] <ogra_> and very newly we have snapcraft ... a tool that makes building snaps easy enough my mom coould do it ;)
[08:22] <ogra_> well, probably not my mom :)
[08:22] <flexiondotorg> For building app snaps?
[08:22] <ogra_> but yu dont need big skills with it
[08:22] <ogra_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/+junk/ircproxy/files
[08:23] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Reading that now. You should use ZNC ;-)
[08:23] <ogra_> all you need is the snapcraft.yaml ... the rest is fully automatic (the other bits there are just glue)
[08:23] <flexiondotorg> Coolness.
[08:23] <ogra_> yo go into the dir with the snapcraft.yaml ... call snapcraft and out comes a snap
[08:24] <flexiondotorg> stage-packages being debs?
[08:24] <ogra_> and if you upload your branch to LP there is a single button "build snap" that does the same and even uploads it to the store for you
[08:24] <ogra_> right
[08:24] <ogra_> but they could also be a github branch
[08:24] <flexiondotorg> Oh man. That is brilliant.
[08:24] <ogra_> that would then get automatically built
[08:25] <ogra_> or some other upstream centric thing ...
[08:25] <flexiondotorg> Is that LP button in there now or coming?
[08:25] <ogra_> its in there right now
[08:25] <flexiondotorg> OK, getting distracted from my 15.10 beta 2 testing now.
[08:25] <flexiondotorg> So want to play with that.
[08:25] <ogra_> haha
[08:25] <flexiondotorg> Must resist.
[08:25] <flexiondotorg> Thank you.
[08:25] <ogra_> yeah, finish your beta :)
[08:26] <flexiondotorg> That has totally sold me on the idea.
[08:26] <flexiondotorg> I'll be playing with Snappy after I've got 15.10 out the door.
[08:26] <flexiondotorg> Many thanks.
[08:26] <ogra_> if you have questions (you surely will) ask in #snappy :)
[08:27] <flexiondotorg> Will do.
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