[01:16] <zhangchao> Hi, release team, Help: we want to update some packages for Wily Beta 2 of Ubuntu Kylin. package have be uploaded by aron , but needs approval from release team.
[01:49] <infinity> zhangchao1: I assume the two with "kylin" in the name?
[01:53] <zhangchao1> infinity: package name :ubuntu-kylin-software-center,ubuntukylin-default-settings ,ubuntukylin-wallpaper
[01:53] <infinity> zhangchao1: That Z99-zip-gbk.sh is pretty sketchy shell. :P
[01:54] <infinity> zhangchao1: I think what you wanted there to avoid all the crazy forks was "case $LANGUAGE in; zh_CN*) do stuff;; esac"
[02:00] <zhangchao1> infinity: We want to take effect when $LANGUAGE contains zh_CN
[02:00] <infinity> zhangchao1: Yes, I know.  I'm questioning the use of "echo | grep" there. :)
[02:02] <infinity> zhangchao1: This would have the same effect with 90% less crazy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12537803/
[02:03] <infinity> zhangchao1: And the added bonus of being extensible more easily to other locales, if you decide zh_CH isn't the only one this should apply to.
[02:08] <zhangchao1> Z99-zip-gbk.sh is  sketchy,we will fix it after beta2
[02:08] <zhangchao1> yes, only zh_CH is not enough.
[02:09] <infinity> zhangchao1: If you're going to commit to fixing it after the beta, I'll let it in, but do promise it'll be sorted. :P
[02:09] <infinity> Not that I run kylin, but if I did, I'd be horrified reading that. ;)
[02:12] <zhangchao1> infinity: Sure,we will fix that  as soon as possible after beta2.
[02:18] <infinity> Alright, so I'm letting the kernel in, and those kylin bits, then respinning the world, and this should be the last spin of beta2.
[02:18] <infinity> May the rest of our bugs be vaguely not critical.
[02:24] <zhangchao1> infinity: ok, thank you for your help
[04:02] <infinity> wxl: Sorry, I know lubuntu got marked ready, but I had to respin the world just once.  If you guys can lightly test the new ISOs to make sure they still boot and such, that would be nice.
[04:06] <amjjawad> Hello infinity, any idea about this bug 1462688?
[04:07] <amjjawad> infinity, for my testing, I can finish the installation normally by clicking "continue anyway" and it works. It seems some other people are having problems with that and some other can't see it. It's alive even before beta 1
[04:14] <infinity> cyphermox: ^
[04:14] <cyphermox> oh, that's new
[04:16] <cyphermox> (well, not really, but hey)
[04:16] <cyphermox> amjjawad: what timezone did you pick?
[04:17] <amjjawad> hi cyphermox, I see it 'before' selecting anytime zone. And, when I choose "continue anyway", everything is fine after that and my installation did not crash.
[04:17] <cyphermox> I already did some of the work to add the zone bits for Pyongyang time but it was still incomplete, and no matter what I did I couldn't reproduce the crash
[04:17] <cyphermox> amjjawad: did you have a network connection when you did the install?
[04:17] <cyphermox> in case that changes anything
[04:17] <amjjawad> cyphermox, yes, I am on +10GMT
[04:18] <amjjawad> cyphermox, testing actually on Oracle Virtualbox 5.0.2
[04:18] <cyphermox> oh, but I mean, were you online, as detected by ubiquity at the beginning?
[04:19] <amjjawad> cyphermox, Oracle Virtualbox will use your connection no matter what it is. So yes, I am connected to the internet or to be more accurate, the virtual machine is connected to the internet and my time zone is +10 gmt
[04:19] <cyphermox> ok
[04:19] <cyphermox> thanks. this might make a difference
[04:19] <amjjawad> cyphermox, you're welcome. From your Q, I assume the crash will happen when the machine is offline?!
[04:19] <ianorlin> cyphermox: would trying to reproduce this in a kvm vm be helpful?
[04:20] <cyphermox> ianorlin: of course
[04:20] <cyphermox> I tried already, couldn't find what to do to make it show up
[04:20] <cyphermox> I would never get the crash, but picking the north korea timezone also wasn't completely reacting properly.
[04:21] <cyphermox> amjjawad: I wonder if it might *not* happen if the machine is offline.
[04:21] <cyphermox> in case it has anything to do with the codepaths when the timezone is automatically detected
[04:22] <amjjawad> cyphermox, do you want me to test it while the machine is offline?
[04:23] <cyphermox> up to you
[04:23] <cyphermox> I'll get back to this in the morning, it's getting pretty late to dig in ubiquity :)
[04:23] <amjjawad> once the new builds for Ubuntu GNOME are ready, I'll try that and see what will happen :)
[04:24] <amjjawad> It's 14:23 here but I know it's totally different on the other part of the world :)
[04:25] <cyphermox> yes, it's past midnight here
[04:25] <cyphermox> I've been trying to fix the modemmanager upgrade bug
[04:32] <amjjawad> get some rest cyphermox and thanks a lot for all your hard work :)
[04:33] <cyphermox> amjjawad: ianorlin: if you manage to reproduce it, it would be great if you could add a traceback to the bug
[04:33] <cyphermox> running ubiquity with --debug might help there.
[04:34] <ianorlin> although think I might be one of the last people on lubuntu QA team awake at this time
[04:35] <amjjawad> cyphermox, will try to remember that. Just open the Terminal and type ubiquity --debug ?
[04:35] <cyphermox> yeah, that would start ubiquity, with debugging enabled
[04:36] <amjjawad> cyphermox, but that means I need to use that while I choose "try without installation", correct? AFAIK, I can't use that while choosing "Install" option ..
[04:36] <cyphermox> correct
[04:36] <cyphermox> to use the straight install, you'd need to hit F6 and add "debug-ubiquity" on the command-line
[04:36] <amjjawad> cyphermox, perfect, I'll do that and update the bug report in case I'll find anything new
[04:49] <cyphermox> amjjawad: you're not in Papua New Guinea by any chance?
[05:16] <cyphermox> amjjawad: ianorlin: if you manage to reproduce, I'd be interested if you could modify ./usr/lib/ubiquity/tzsetup/post-base-installer to add a 'set -x' near the top and go back/forward again in the installer to get the crash to happen again (hopefully), then add syslog to the bug report
[05:16] <cyphermox> that could confirm what I think this is
[05:17] <cyphermox> and on that, I'm going to bed ;)
[05:58] <ianorlin> cyphermox: I can't reproduce it installing to my laptop on bare metal and I think I might be the only one still awake on the lubuntu QA team
[06:17] <amjjawad> ianorlin, are you awake still?
[06:18] <amjjawad> ianorlin, cyphermox turning off the network connection did the trick. I no longer see the error message and I can now select the timezone from the world map :)
[06:18] <ianorlin> yes I am still awake
[07:08] <flocculant> seb128: upgraded with image - if people want me to do the same with upgrade-manager then I will, but it'll not be today - most interested today in B2 for us
[07:08] <seb128> flocculant, with "image"?
[07:09] <seb128> from a livecd/with ubiquity you mean?
[07:09] <flocculant> yeas
[07:09] <seb128> oh, then it might be the same user-setup bug than the new install one
[07:09] <seb128> sorry, when you said upgrade for me it was dist-upgrader/update-manager
[07:10] <seb128> which is why I though it was weird
[07:10] <flocculant> seb128: that's what I thought too - so I have managed to find time this morning to run through with updated wily image
[07:10] <flocculant> just waiting for it to finish the upgrade now
[07:11] <seb128> flocculant, thanks
[07:21] <flocculant> seb128: ok - so upgrading with new livecd - autologin works
[07:22] <seb128> flocculant, great, bug fixed then, thanks for testing
[07:22] <flocculant> commented on bug
[07:23] <flocculant> seb128: I've got to do some upgrade testing anyway - so I'll autologin test while doing the update-manager test
[07:24] <seb128> thanks
[07:36] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, I've also tried to reproduce the ubi-timezone issue.
[07:36] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, People are reported the issue but I've never been able to reproduce it regardless of whether I have a connection or not.
[07:39] <ianorlin> I did several installs on my laptop and virt-manger did not reproduce ubi-timezone
[09:58] <flocculant> seb128: not sure re autologin - upgrade crashed with modemmanager problems
[09:59] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, hi :) still can't produce that bug?!
[09:59] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, Which bug?
[10:00] <amjjawad> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1462688
[10:00] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I've never encountered it.
[10:00] <flexiondotorg> Not since 14.10 anyway.
[10:00] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, interesting. I wounder why :D
[10:01] <amjjawad> are you testing Ubuntu MATE only?
[10:02] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I think it might be linked to the geographical location that is detected.
[10:02] <flexiondotorg> I have test Xubuntu and stock Ubuntu.
[10:02] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, I see. Could be.
[10:02] <flexiondotorg> Because Xubuntu, Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE all use lightdm and there was a regression there which is now fixed.
[10:03] <flexiondotorg> I'll grab Ubuntu GNOME as try it.
[10:03] <flexiondotorg> I have the time.
[10:03] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, that's so kind of you :) you might want to check the comments I posted on that bug
[10:04] <flocculant> seb128:  ok so - got in, got wily, it does autologin following upgrade-manager, lightdm conf still has [SeatDefaults] rather than [Seat:*] - not sure if that needs reporting or not
[10:04] <seb128> flocculant, no, it doesn't, we don't have code migrating configs, but lightdm understands the old format for compatibility reasons
[10:05] <flocculant> ok cool - so it looks like green for upgrades then :)
[10:05] <flocculant> at least with this issue
[10:05] <flexiondotorg> Woo!
[10:33] <davmor2> flocculant: not for me modemmanager still broke it I had to run dpkg --configure -a to fix the install
[10:34] <davmor2> auto-login however works fine now :)
[10:35] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I've read the bug.
[10:42] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I can't reproduce in Ubuntu GNOME either.
[10:56] <flocculant> davmor2: yea - that's what the comment at 10:58 says - the 11:05 ones are about autologin :)
[11:03] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, really weird. Thanks for the feedback
[11:06] <flocculant> ftr - someone sees that timezone issue in xubuntu - I can't reproduce either
[13:38] <cyphermox> flexiondotorg: I'm not surprised you can't reproduce it, I think it's very specific to what timezone you'll get from NTP or what timezone you might pick. probably just the former
[13:38] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, I've tried manually changing my time zone to that of people who reported problems.
[13:39] <flexiondotorg> Still couldn't make it fail.
[13:39] <cyphermox> right
[13:40] <cyphermox> flexiondotorg: I think what I'll do is upload a version of ubiquity which gives me more data.
[15:54] <rcj> infinity, cloud images are ready for beta 2
[16:14] <wxl> thanks we're on it already infinity :) about ready to mark ready
[16:16] <wxl> and ready
[16:55] <infinity> wxl: I'm guessing from the complete lack of registered tests that lubuntu/ppc isn't being released?
[16:55] <wxl> infinity: that's correct
[17:00] <Riddell> kubuntu good to go, mparillo about if you need someone to ping, I'm wandering out
[17:03] <rtg> ogra_, re-re-re-uploaded raspi2 after getting slapped by infinity for removing the tools packages.
[17:05] <ogra_> rtg, tell infinity i'll slap him for slapping you after he disabled snappy builds for two days (and everyone was wondering why the things didnt land :P )
[17:06] <rtg> whoa, I'm staying out of that one.
[17:06] <ogra_> but instead of slapping each other we all should just have beer at the next sprint ;)
[17:07] <cjwatson> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s
[17:07] <ogra_> LOL
[17:08] <rtg> :)
[17:33] <infinity> ogra_: Sorry about that.  Overzealous application of #
[17:33] <ogra_> :)
[17:33] <ogra_> no worries
[17:45] <rcj> infinity, I'm going to be away for an hour or so, but cloud images are currently ready to begin publication when we get the go ahead.
[17:45] <kgunn> hey guys, i've got a bit of a conundrum, so we like dual landing our projects, and we're hoping to get some hot fixes landed for OTA7
[17:45] <kgunn> however got into situation where, we release a mir/u-s-c, it got promoted in vivid+o but stuck in UNAPPROVED for wily
[17:46] <kgunn> and so, aiui, that prevents us from force merging what will-be-released back
[17:47] <kgunn> preventing us from landing any further changes, and i have a specific critical bug fix associated with u-s-c
[17:48] <kgunn> and also aiui, once wily beta is curated, u-s-c will move to proposed - can someone confirm? and provide estimate?
[18:00]  * kgunn listens to crickets
[18:12] <infinity> kgunn: I'll accept mir shortly, once beta2's ducks are all in a row.
[18:13] <kgunn> infinity: cool, and then it'll just sit in proposed? or actually flow all the way thru ?
[18:13] <infinity> kgunn: That's up to autopktesting, but it'll migrate the way it usually does, nothing special is blocking it.
[18:13] <kgunn> ah, got it, thanks infinity
[18:20] <infinity> rtg:
[18:20] <infinity> -Vcs-Git: git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubunt/ubuntu-wily-meta.git raspi2
[18:20] <infinity> +Vcs-Git: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git-repos/ppisati/ubuntu-RELEASE_NAME-meta.git raspi2
[18:20] <infinity> rtg: ^-- unintentional?
[18:29] <doko> would somebody mind if I still do the netcdf 4 transition? then I don't have to do it next cycle
[18:38] <infinity> doko: netcdf 4 is already in wily.  Is it half-transitioned or something?
[18:38] <doko> no, I mean 4.4
[18:38] <infinity> Ahh, that makes more sense.
[18:40] <rtg> infinity, ah, yeah. they came back with the revert. I'll fix it for the next upload.
[18:41] <infinity> doko: The only things that jump out as being potentially scary in rdeps are vtk and gdal.  Is this transition all done in Debian already?
[18:41] <doko> it's in testing
[18:41] <infinity> doko: If so, and if there's some alrightish test coverage (automated or manual), seems fine to me to go for it.
[18:57] <davmor2> infinity: image still seems to have wubi on it should that not be removed now?
[19:00] <doko> infinity, are you able to accept #1499075 for trusty-proposed?
[19:06] <infinity> davmor2: I'm not sure we ever made a formal decision on the future of wubi.exe.  Last few times it came up, it was pointed out that it's also the pretty autorun when you stick it in a Windows machine, but I'm not sure how much that matters anymore.
[19:06] <infinity> davmor2: Not fixing for beta2 anyway, but we should sort out WTF we want to do there before final.
[19:07] <davmor2> infinity: in windows 7 + I'm not sure it autoruns like it did in previous versions I'll have a look in windows 10 and 7 and see if I am right
[19:08] <infinity> davmor2: Yeah, I think in 7+ (or maybe vista+), it just pops the "what do you want me to do with this?" dialog instead of autorunning the GUI.
[19:08] <infinity> davmor2: I think.
[19:08] <infinity> davmor2: Which makes the autorun argument a lot less valid.
[19:09] <davmor2> infinity: yeah and that stops the autorun from actually running I will confirm though
[19:14] <davmor2> infinity: hahahahahahahahaha windows 10 just says You need to format the disk in dive i: before you can use it :D
[19:15] <infinity> davmor2: Brilliant.
[19:15] <davmor2> infinity: that is on i386
[19:16] <infinity> davmor2: It might behave slightly better with optical media, rather than a USB stick, but maybe not.
[19:16] <flexiondotorg> Ugh, backlog on another logged in workstation.
[19:17] <flexiondotorg> infinity, How is the status of Beta2?
[19:17] <davmor2> infinity: amd 64 it just opens the EFI folder  will check cd's in a second
[19:17] <infinity> davmor2: Hah.  That's a little bit insane.  Go Windows.
[19:18] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Looks like everything's readyish on the tracker, just need to publish images, sort out paperwork, etc.
[19:18] <davmor2> infinity: the EFI in fat though right so it knows how to open that bit
[19:19] <infinity> davmor2: Right, it's not entirely unexpected behaviour, just a bit hilariously useless.
[19:19]  * infinity might go hide in a hotel room to finish up this beta.
[19:24] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Where are you and why do I keep seeing reference to hiding in a hotel room? ;-)
[19:28] <davmor2> flexiondotorg: linaro connect iirc from the other day
[19:38] <davmor2> infinity: on dvd once you force the autorun to work you don't have the menu just the installer part of wubi which we definitely don't want
[19:43] <flexiondotorg> davmor2, ty
[19:45] <infinity> davmor2: Right, let's pick this conversation up after beta, then, but I think removing it is probably the right thing.
[19:45] <davmor2> infinity: On windows 7 I'm getting pretty much the same thing, usb pendrives except the EFI partition are no able to run, and dvd triggers the installer not the documentation and menu
[19:48] <jibel> davmor2, I'd vote to remove it unless someone is motivated to take over the maintenance. Can you file a bug so we don't forget before to address this topic before the release
[19:48] <jibel> -before
[19:48] <davmor2> jibel: I thought there already was one let me check
[19:48] <jibel> I couldn't find it
[19:52] <flocculant> there was a discussion about this on the -dev m/l
[19:52] <flocculant> bug 1471344 on there
[19:53] <infinity> bdmurray: Didn't I reject that apport upload a day or two ago?
[19:54] <infinity> bdmurray: Oh, or is this based on the security update we weren't stomping on?
[19:54] <infinity> bdmurray: Indeed it is.
[19:55] <jibel> flocculant, right, but I don't remember any conclusion and no one really stepped up to maintain it.
[19:55]  * flocculant neither
[19:56] <davmor2> jibel, infinity: https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi/+bug/1499515
[19:59] <davmor2> flocculant: thanks I couldn't find that
[20:00] <flocculant> welcome - only remembered cos I saw the thread while looking for something else the other day :)
[20:01] <flexiondotorg> Misses Laney doing the release because I'd be in the pub by now ;-)
[20:01] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Hah.
[20:02] <flexiondotorg> ;-)
[20:02] <infinity> flexiondotorg: No one's stopping you from being in the pub. ;)
[20:02] <flexiondotorg> No wifi in the pub.
[20:02] <flexiondotorg> Rural England.
[20:02] <flocculant> \o/
[20:02] <davmor2> flexiondotorg: move to urban england
[20:03] <wxl> i'm nervous all the flavors are ready but not ubuntu proper. um, we're not going to have another massive respin are we?
[20:03] <infinity> flexiondotorg: If you want it to go faster, you could do me a favour and copypasta VividVervet/ReleaseNotes to WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes and edit all the numbers and delete the bits that aren't relevant. ;)
[20:03] <infinity> wxl: Nah, just that no one's marked it.  I'll do so before I release.
[20:03] <wxl> infinity: ok, cool. just checking. take your time on release notes and what have you then ;)
[20:03] <flocculant> flexiondotorg: and if you do - could you remember that Xubuntu has nothing to do with Mate ... ;)
[20:05] <flexiondotorg> flocculant, Thank you.
[20:05] <flexiondotorg> Just about to eat.
[20:05] <flocculant> :D
[20:05] <flexiondotorg> I'll check the relnote after my roast beef :-)
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> davmor2, Urban. No thank you :-)
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Seriously. I am about to eat. I'll check the notes in a sec.
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> Not a sec.
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> After eaating.
[20:06] <davmor2> flexiondotorg: then stop grumbling about your pub :P
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> I'm not grumbling.
[20:07] <flexiondotorg> My house is connected to the Internet via shortwave radio.
[20:07] <flexiondotorg> The pub is not.
[20:07] <flexiondotorg> Perfect solitude and lots of whiskey.
[20:08] <davmor2> flexiondotorg: that's kinda like me at the weekend mifi in the caravan in the middle of nowhere
[20:08] <flexiondotorg> :-)
[20:11] <oSoMoN> hi release team
[20:11] <oSoMoN> could someone ack the webbrowser-app sync that is sitting in the unapproved queue, please?
[20:12] <infinity> oSoMoN: Shortly.
[20:12] <oSoMoN> infinity, thanks
[20:12] <jibel> davmor2, if can you had the issues you found to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes#Known_issues ?
[20:13] <jibel> davmor2, or give me the bug # (again) I'll update the notes
[20:15] <davmor2> jibel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bcmwl/+bug/1498074 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modemmanager/+bug/1481798 (upgrades only) https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell-sputnik/+bug/1499323 https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi/+bug/1499515
[20:20] <flocculant> jibel: if you're editing that still - Xubuntu notes are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta2/Xubuntu
[20:25] <jibel> flocculant, yup, I updates the links to the release notes of the flavors
[20:25] <jibel> davmor2, is bug 1499323 specific to the XPS or all EFI systems?
[20:26] <davmor2> jibel: Dell for sure, it didn't effect mac or my other laptop, but has effected my asus main pc before now
[20:35] <jibel> infinity, release notes for wily created. I updated the 'known issues' but the 'new features' section is completely irrelevant for wily
[20:37] <flexiondotorg> infinity, You still need those relnotes editting?
[20:40] <jibel> flexiondotorg, it's there https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes , download links are wrong and new features too
[20:41] <flexiondotorg> Yeah, I spotted that.
[20:41] <flexiondotorg> jibel, Thanks for the link.
[20:41] <flexiondotorg> Umm, OK.
[20:42] <jibel> flexiondotorg, I'm fixing the download links
[20:42] <flexiondotorg> jibel, Cool.
[20:42] <flexiondotorg> So, it is the new features bit then,
[20:42] <flexiondotorg> Tricky.
[20:43] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Are these release notes intended for Beta 2? Will there be an RC?
[20:45] <flexiondotorg> I'll be bck in a bit.
[20:45] <flexiondotorg> Just need to eplain to the family I'm going to be absent for a bit...
[21:00] <infinity> flexiondotorg: The release notes carry forward all the way to release.  We just add/remove bits as necessary.
[21:12] <flexiondotorg> Back.
[21:13] <flexiondotorg> jibel, You still here?
[21:17] <infinity> flexiondotorg: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VividUpgrades could use the same treatment.  Having a heck of a time even logging in over this connection.
[21:17] <infinity> jibel: ^-- Do you know who has ACLs to add WilyUpgrades to help.u.c?
[21:17] <infinity> davmor2: ^
[21:18] <infinity> balloons: ^
[21:20] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I'm going to start on the release notes now.
[21:20] <flexiondotorg> I might have to trim them way back.
[21:20] <infinity> flexiondotorg: My usual tact is "fix all the URLs and version references" and then "empty out the sections where everytihng is a lie now".
[21:21]  * flexiondotorg purges the lies
[21:21] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Don't delete sections or anything, just empty out content that's irrelevant, leaving a skeleton behind.
[21:24] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I'm giving myself a hard deadline of 90m from now to finish this up, since there's a session I need to attend then.  So, if you don't mind a midnight beer, you might sneak one in. :P
[21:24] <infinity> flexiondotorg: (Not that you have to be around for the release, mind you, except if you're trying to time an announcement to match mine or something)
[21:25]  * flexiondotorg is doing his best to help :-)
[21:25]  * flexiondotorg has wine
[21:25] <jibel> infinity, I don't know and it doesn't let me in
[21:26] <jibel> infinity, apparently I can edit it
[21:31] <jibel> infinity, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WilyUpgrades
[21:33] <jibel> flexiondotorg, in doubt comment the content instead of deleting it
[21:33] <flexiondotorg> jibel, OK.
[21:34] <flexiondotorg> jibel, What comment syntax does this wiki support?
[21:34] <jibel> flexiondotorg, cannot remember, I usually use the link to the help under the edit area
[21:35] <infinity> jibel: Brilliant, thanks.
[21:51] <flexiondotorg> jibel, infinity I have no idea if someof the stuff I'm commenting out is genuine or not.
[21:54] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Meh, just wing it.  We can clean up before final.
[21:54] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Nearly done.
[21:56] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Mentioning the ubi-timezone crasher in known issues might be nice.  Not sure if anything else is so horribly user-face that it's worth adding.
[21:57] <infinity> launchpad.net/bugs/1462688
[21:57] <flexiondotorg> wilco
[21:58] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Apparently, the suspected workaround is to install without a network connected.
[21:59] <flexiondotorg> ANd click continue anyway
[22:00] <balloons> infinity, I don't know who has perms to update help.u.c
[22:00] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Yeah, evidently "just click continue" doesn't work on all flavours, hence the "don't have a network at all to avoid the crash" thing.
[22:00] <infinity> balloons: Evidently, jibel does. ;)
[22:00] <infinity> balloons: I might, but SSO kept timing out, so I have no idea.
[22:00] <flexiondotorg> ack
[22:00] <balloons> ahh
[22:08] <flexiondotorg> infinity, jibel Cast an eye over this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes
[22:10] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Indentation error in the boot/install section.
[22:10] <infinity> flexiondotorg: (the usb-creator bug became a sub-clause of the previous one)
[22:11] <popey> compiz not bold
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> popey, Edits welcome.
[22:11] <popey> kk,
[22:11]  * popey edits
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> popey, Please do refine the mark up.
[22:11] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Generally looks fine, though.  Thanks.
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> I hacked through that very quickly.
[22:11] <popey> sure, np
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Least I could do.
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> I owe you :-)
[22:12]  * infinity waits for his case of cider in the mail.
[22:12] <flexiondotorg> I may have commented out some legit stuff but I have not way of knowing for sure.
[22:13] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Lots more eyes will go over it between beta and release, so we'll get it better.
[22:13] <flexiondotorg> infinity, If/when I do the community round up in the future I'll have them update that as we go.
[22:14] <flexiondotorg> Because we can get a decent first draft that way.
[22:14] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Yeah, it would be ideal to create it on the first Alpha and go from there.
[22:14]  * flexiondotorg nods
[22:14]  * flexiondotorg get more wine.
[22:14]  * popey stops editing
[22:14] <popey> ooh, one more
[22:14] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Which is more or less what we did when Ubuntu participated in Alphas, but then we stopped. :P
[22:14]  * flexiondotorg refreshes
[22:15] <popey> flexiondotorg: and again
[22:15] <flexiondotorg> ack
[22:15] <infinity> I'd still prefer talking flavours out of doing more milestones than they need, but I understand the argument that for smaller flavors, milestones are their only rallying point for cadenced testing, so it's hard to get rid of them.
[22:16] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Yeah, it's tricky.
[22:16] <flexiondotorg> I got some excellent feedback in alpha1/2 I missed myself.
[22:17] <flexiondotorg> That is a discussion for another day.
[22:17] <infinity> flexiondotorg: See, if I ran a flavour, I *think* what I'd do is let some tech lead declare "this week, our flavour looks alright, so this week's dailies, our goal is to test and drive the bugs to 0".
[22:17] <flexiondotorg> Anything else I can do to help?
[22:17] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Repeat process a couple of times between open and final.
[22:18] <flexiondotorg> infinity, That's a nice idea. But having hard deadlines focuses the volunteers.
[22:18] <flexiondotorg> So, what else?
[22:18] <infinity> flexiondotorg: alphas and betas basically do that, but with the added annoyance of also releasing a "blessed" image, which I think is a mistake.  Cause then people install from that image for the next month, instead of using dailies that are probably better. :P
[22:18] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I think we're basically good.  I'm polishing up the mechanical publishing bits, then I copy and waste last cycle's release accounce, and we're off.
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> I'm going to drain this bottle of wine soon and my usefulness will significantly diminish ;-
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> infinity, You mean the Beta 2 release announcement?
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> You want to reuse?
[22:19] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I always reuse them.  I'm lazy. :P
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> Sorry, reuse Beta 1 annouce
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> OK.
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> I made some typos.
[22:19] <infinity> flexiondotorg: No, no.  I reuse Beta 2 from last cycle.
[22:20] <flexiondotorg> OK. Good.
[22:20] <flexiondotorg> My errors are not there.
[22:20] <infinity> flexiondotorg: With minor editing, of course.
[22:20] <flexiondotorg> popey, Thanks for pitching in.
[22:20] <popey> np
[22:20] <infinity> flexiondotorg: On the topic of the evil of "blessed images" though, I'd even like to see Ubuntu proper stop doing Beta2/FinalBeta/whatever for that same reason.
[22:21] <infinity> For the next month, we'll have people who insist on installing from that image and whining about the bugs, when the daily from two days from now will have those bugs fixed.
[22:21] <flexiondotorg> If you don't have the late betas people won't test them.
[22:22] <infinity> It's a double-edged sword, yes.
[22:22] <flexiondotorg> Then you final build quality will suffer.
[22:22] <flexiondotorg> I admit perhaps Alpha 1 is not so useful.
[22:22] <infinity> Though most of my good bugs come from people like jibel and davmor2, who I'm pretty sure I could convince to test even without a deadline milestone.
[22:22] <infinity> flexiondotorg: The point of alpha1 in early Ubuntu days was just to prove "holy crap, it builds".
[22:22] <flexiondotorg> infinity, You can't rely on a few commited people.
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> For example, popey for a bug in MATE.
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> None of the 7 MATE developers could reproduce it.
[22:23] <infinity> flexiondotorg: it used to take us that long to get from new series to debian sync/import to an image actually building.
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> A quirk of hardware.
[22:23] <popey> \o/
[22:23] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Now, though, we tend to have images building for series+1 the day after series releases. :P
[22:23] <popey> I win at oddball bug finding
[22:23] <popey> where's my medal!
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> So you need a spread.
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> I gave them to you yesterday. Look at Samantha ;-)
[22:24] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Oh, I know.  Trust me, I know the value of manual testing.  Especially by people who do weird stuff. ;)
[22:24] <flexiondotorg> popey, You can't make software fool proof.
[22:24] <flexiondotorg> Because fools are so ingenious ;-)
[22:24] <infinity> (And by "weird stuff", I don't mean anything actually weird, just people who don't mechnically run through exact testcases on a wiki)
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Yep. Agree.
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> I have 4 or 5 committed testers for Ubuntu MATE.
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> They really pick away at stuff.
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> They a golden.
[22:25] <infinity> Historically, apw would always find some awful bug every cycle during release week, by *gasp* just using a fresh install. :P
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> *They are
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> I love that kind of commitment. Saves me so much time.
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I did that early this time.
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> Did fresh installs of the dailies on all the hardware on Monday.
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> Found loads of issues.
[22:26] <infinity> Yeah.  Software is terrible.  We should stop using it.
[22:27] <flexiondotorg> I have some new upload in Debian I'll be requesting a sync for soon and an update to 3 packages in Ubuntu.
[22:27] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Right. Are you going to make your session?
[22:27] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I've still got half an hour.  It's a short walk. :P
[22:28] <flexiondotorg> OK :-)
[22:30] <rcj> infinity, time for cloud images to start replication?
[22:30] <infinity> rcj: You can pull the trigger anytime.
[22:30] <rcj> infinity, excellent.  Thanks
[22:31] <infinity> rcj: Also, yay timing.  I was typing that when you asked. :P
[22:31] <rcj> infinity, I was just catching up on the channel backlog to make sure I wasn't asking a question with an obvious answer
[22:32] <infinity> rcj: I just pulled the trigger on cdimage and releases, so perfect time for you to be doing the same and crippling the world. ;)
[22:33] <infinity> rcj: Announce will go out in ~30m.
[22:33] <rcj> infinity, excellent.  let the infrastructure melt a bit
[22:49]  * flexiondotorg is standing by
[22:54]  * infinity is arguing with the wiki.
[22:56] <infinity> Might have to finish this from downstairs.  WiFi in the rooms seems crippled.
[22:56] <Ukikie> Wiki'll win.
[23:03] <infinity> Ukikie: It would seem you're right...
[23:07] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Okay, I underestimated.  Mirrors are still syncing. :P
[23:07] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I'm still here.
[23:07] <flexiondotorg> So, the release process is running.
[23:07] <flexiondotorg> Just announcement emails left and syncing to complete?
[23:08] <infinity> Yeahp.
[23:08] <flexiondotorg> Great.
[23:08]  * flexiondotorg mashes F5 ;-)
[23:25] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Alright, mail going out.
[23:25] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Great
[23:25] <flexiondotorg> Enjoy your conference.