cmaloneyhow goes?00:22
greg-gyo yo00:23
brouschHm, U-M has 2 Coursera courses: Python and web design. Python course is from Charles Severance10:42
jrwrenpretty sure you know python better than any course could teach you.13:15
jrwrenthen again, its college, so some of the general compsci might be good.13:16
jrwreni don't remember if you were a compsci major, brousch ?13:16
mrgoodcati occasionally run through a course like that just to see. sometimes you learn little things like syntax shortcuts and such13:20
jrwrengood point.13:21
jrwrenthere are a lot of python syntax shortcuts I never mastered because python2 is still a thing :(13:21
* jrwren rages against python213:21
mrgoodcati use py3 when i can13:22
mrgoodcati dislike that python2 is still teh default python in most distros13:22
jrwrenmrgoodcat: you'll love ubuntu wiley  :)13:23
brouschjrwren: I didn't take anything above CS 200 level courses. I have a BS in Anthropology13:23
jrwrenmrgoodcat: less than 4 weeks away!13:23
jrwrenbrousch: ah, then algorthims stuff in a college course would likely be great.13:23
mrgoodcatjrwren: can't wait :)13:23
brouschI don't plan on taking the courses, I just find it interesting what U-M is up to these days13:23
mrgoodcatalthough the only ubuntu i use has been lts as of late13:24
jrwrenbrousch: oh, u-m is still all c++ afaik13:24
mrgoodcatso i have to wait for 16.0413:24
jrwrenthen again, it has been a few years since I met any students or recent graduates.13:24
mrgoodcati'm a student13:24
jrwrenmrgoodcat: at umich?13:24
mrgoodcatbut that wasn't what you said13:24
brouschI am weak in algorithms and design patterns13:25
brouschI thought U-M was moving to Java when I left in 199913:28
mrgoodcatlikely they were13:29
jrwrenbrousch: design patterns are just knowing names for things. Its like knowing the names of birds. Its only useful if it is useful.13:29
mrgoodcatmost schools i know of are java now13:29
mrgoodcatalthough usually there is still some c++ required13:29
jrwrenbrousch: they definitely were not in the early 2000s. They were c++. I know a handful of grads who finished in '05 and they were very good c++ devs.13:30
jrwrenI was impressed because most kids coming out of college think they can code and think they know c++, but really don't. These kids were the real deal.13:30
jrwrenThen again, c++ now is quite a bit different than c++ 10 years gao :)13:31
cmaloneyI still don't know Design patterns13:32
cmaloneyat least the name of things13:32
cmaloneyEvery time I start reading about them I get bored and drift off13:32
jrwrencmaloney: they are exceptionally dull13:32
jrwrenand knowing more than a few of them is utterly useless13:32
jrwrenmany of them are language specific.13:33
cmaloneySame with knowing bird taxonomy13:33
jrwrene.g. Observer Pattern in C# is implemented in the language - its called events.13:33
jrwrenhaha, birds.13:33
jrwreni see a black bird, and I say, hi black bird. I see a blue bird, and I say hi blue bird. and so on...13:34
jrwrenI think knowing antipatterns is more useful than knowing design patterns.13:35
brouschEECS 281 (Data structures and Algorithms) kicked my butt twice. I hated memory management (C/C++) and pointers. these are the primary things that kept me from getting to 300 level CS courses13:35
cmaloneyI get that we need to have lingua franca and what-not, but I'll be damned if I'll pull "Observer Pattern" out of something that's "Event driven"13:35
cmaloneymemory management is tricky stuff. Even the computer doesn't get it right13:35
brouschthis is why I use Python now, but I'm not really an awesome programmer13:36
cmaloney"Did you free that memory?" "0" "Does that mean yes?" "Banana!"13:36
jrwrenall the recent c++ trends agree. its considered bad form to use new and delete yourself now.13:37
jrwrenC++ folks have basically said, memory management is hard.13:37
cmaloney"Yo! I heard you liked releasing memory so I free'd the free'd the free'd the free'd the SEGFAULT"13:37
cmaloneyjrwren: How times change13:38
cmaloney1990 / 2000 was all about that destructor13:38
jrwrencmaloney: well, its also a different world. 20yrs ago when I started c/c++, most programs weren't long lived. they'd run, do their thing and terminate. Now everythign is a long time running server.13:39
jrwrencmaloney: oh, the destructor is still there and important, afaik. you just won't call delete from it :)13:39
cmaloneyBeen a while since I looked at C++13:39
cmaloneyI need to give it a peek again13:39
cmaloneysee if it makes my stomach churn13:40
jrwrencmaloney: just be careful where you look. there is a lot of bad info, bad advice out there.13:40
cmaloneyI wouldn't look at a book prior to 201013:40
jrwrenBjarn actually said this in his cppcon talk13:40
cmaloneyand certainly not Bjarne's book13:40
jrwrenEffectiveC++ then?13:40
cmaloneyI think I have that laying around13:40
cmaloneyPicked up a decent looking C++ Games book13:41
cmaloney"4.0 out of 5 starsI'd say taht this is a good, a realy good"13:43
cmaloneyCan't go wrong with that review13:43
jrwrenwhy a game programming book?13:44
cmaloneyI like games? :)13:44
cmaloneyPlus it doesn't teach a library, all of the games are text-based13:45
cmaloneyso you're not fighting with something like Unity3d while learning hte language13:45
jrwrenha, timely: https://twitter.com/wc_duck/status/64695717823503564913:46
jrwrenfor the record: I'm a total c++ n00b.13:49
cmaloneyThe syntax put me off13:49
jrwrenwell, it is hard to beat python.13:50
cmaloneyIt just felt like it was bastardized C to me13:50
cmaloneyI find C can be quite beautiful13:50
cmaloneyC++ felt like a lot of boilerplate13:51
cmaloneysimilar to Java13:51
jrwrenso, that is kind of what bjarne said in that same keynote.13:52
jrwrenhe said most c++ is bad.13:52
jrwrenhe said clases are overused, there is a reason c++ has functions just like C13:52
jrwrenhe said a lot of c++ devs go out their way to use all htese complex features when simple things would work.13:52
cmaloneyDid he fall on his sword because that's what it sounds like. ;)13:53
jrwrenI think he more cried, "its not my fault everyone else sucks."13:56
mrgoodcatafter lots of work i finally reduced my vimrc to 72 lines (only 27 of which are actually directives) and got rid of all vim plugins14:23
mrgoodcatremoved all the old crufty crap that i installed, used once, and forgot about14:23
mrgoodcatmy vimrc also has a comment for every single directive now14:23
cmaloney" This sets the value of a to 4214:23
mrgoodcatsome of them are simple like that14:23
cmaloney"This ensures that something down the chain works. Fuck if I know what it actually does14:24
cmaloney" This sends my bank information to the IRS, FBI, and NDA14:24
cmaloneyhah, NDA my ass14:24
jrwrenI should probably do that.14:25
mrgoodcatit feels nice14:25
jrwreni bet I have 27 color directives commented out, so that I know what color options are available14:26
mrgoodcatlike replacing all your socks and getting all matching pairs14:26
mrgoodcati think line 17 and 23 are my most used14:27
cmaloneyYou can do that?14:27
mrgoodcatimap jk <esc>`^:%s/ \+$//eg<return>`^:w<return>14:27
mrgoodcatimap kj <esc>14:27
mrgoodcatjk leaves insert mode, removes trailing spaces, and saves14:27
mrgoodcatkj just leaves insert mode14:27
mrgoodcatscrew reaching for esc14:27
jrwreni would hit that all teh time navigating up and down lines.14:28
_stink_doesn't rick_h_ use jj or something?14:28
_stink_for esc14:28
mrgoodcatjrwren: not in insert mode you wouldn't14:28
rick_h__stink_: yes, in zsh and in vim14:28
rick_h_yes in insert mode14:28
rick_h_and it's awesome, home row and one char ftw14:29
jrwrenmap esc to ` as god and the terminal on which vi was written intended :)14:29
jrwrenerr, tab.14:29
rick_h_heh, except ~ moves on keyboards, especially kenisis/etc14:29
jrwrenmaybe it was tab location is esc?14:29
rick_h_esc was where tab or caps lock was on that terminal14:29
rick_h_so it was close/on home row14:30
rick_h_jj is awesome, there's like 3 words that use that14:30
rick_h_and if you do NEED a jj you just type it slowly14:30
mrgoodcatjk and kj are the best14:30
mrgoodcatand in insert mode i'm not using them to move14:30
rick_h_there's a timer on that for 100ms or something14:30
_stink_what words use jj?14:30
mrgoodcatvery few if any14:30
* cmaloney still needs to get rick_h_ a proper ADM terminal14:30
rick_h_mrgoodcat: nope, why two fingers? when you can do one?14:30
jrwrenthere is no except. look at the keyboard as it was on a adm-3a, make your KB the same. then vi is usable14:30
mrgoodcatrick_h_: can hit faster with two14:30
jrwrenhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A  the KB used to write vi14:31
rick_h_mrgoodcat: with proper keys I disagree14:31
rick_h_you're not taking your finger off14:31
mrgoodcatroll right for save roll left for not save14:31
mrgoodcatcan hit the second key while key 1 is still down14:31
mrgoodcathitting them at pretty much the same time14:31
* jrwren maps tab to esc :)14:31
* cmaloney looks for the "Here is" key14:31
rick_h_jrwren: how do you tab in code then?14:32
jrwrenrick_h_: i'd never do that. gofmt does it for me :)14:32
rick_h_jrwren: ugh14:32
jrwrenctrl-i maybe :)14:32
cmaloneyOr you use CTRL-I14:32
cmaloneyjrwen is jinxing me14:32
rick_h_once you go jj you never go back :P14:32
jrwrenrick_h_: gofmt is opoiste of insanity. imagine all pep8 violations being automatically resolved on every file save. its glorious14:33
jrwrenunfortunately, nothing fixes my spelling.  opposite?14:33
jrwrengrep jj /usr/share/dict/words14:33
jrwrenjk is in Dijkstra :)14:33
jrwrenjj wins.14:34
cmaloneyrick_h_: I hope you never have a Scandanavian employee. :)14:34
mrgoodcat1 word14:34
mrgoodcat3 contain kj14:34
jrwrenmore than 314:36
jrwrenwell, blackjack, lockjaw, and some propernames.14:36
mrgoodcatwordfind didn't find blackjack14:37
mrgoodcatdid find inkjet though14:37
* rick_h_ claims enough old man greybeard cli points to guffaw at alternatives to jj :P14:38
rick_h_without any data other than experience14:38
cmaloneyfunnily enough I knew a gent who had an IRC nick with jj in it14:39
* cmaloney remembers simpler times when sending +++ over IRC would reset some stupider modems14:40
jrwrenha, inkjet isn't in dict/words :)14:40
rick_h_cmaloney: you'd tab complete that anyway and never type it :P14:41
cmaloneyWell, it also assumes you're using IRC from vim in insert mmode14:41
cmaloneyso MMMOOOOOOBBB14:41
cmaloney Shigeto - There Is Always Hope (Mux Mool Remix)15:27
cmaloney^ hearing an echoey voice saying "Michigan michigan michigan..."15:27
cmaloneyThanks Soma.fm15:27
cmaloneyalso: have a replacement for how I use last.fm15:28
jrwrenso... we went from no python podcasts, to a new one every month, it seems.16:46
jrwrenanyone want to start a python podcast?16:46
=== SneakyPh1l is now known as SneakyPhil
cmaloneyI think I've hit mini-rick_h_17:38
cmaloneyI have multiple tmux sessions, each full-screen, with multiple panes in each.17:38
jrwrenbut all one tmux server?17:39
cmaloneyEach is it's own server17:39
jrwrenah. bummer. that sounds rough17:41
cmaloneyNah, it's quite cool17:42
cmaloneyNo complaints, or I wouldn't do it17:42
brouschWhat the ...  https://blog.adafruit.com/2015/09/23/a-breadboard-for-pebble-smartstrap-lovers-wearablewednesday/22:12
cmaloneyThat is awesome.22:45

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