[00:08] evening [00:19] evening [00:22] how goes? [00:23] yo yo [10:42] Hm, U-M has 2 Coursera courses: Python and web design. Python course is from Charles Severance [10:42] https://www.coursera.org/browse/computer-science [10:59] Morning [11:59] yes [13:15] pretty sure you know python better than any course could teach you. [13:16] then again, its college, so some of the general compsci might be good. [13:16] i don't remember if you were a compsci major, brousch ? [13:20] i occasionally run through a course like that just to see. sometimes you learn little things like syntax shortcuts and such [13:21] good point. [13:21] there are a lot of python syntax shortcuts I never mastered because python2 is still a thing :( [13:21] * jrwren rages against python2 [13:22] i use py3 when i can [13:22] i dislike that python2 is still teh default python in most distros [13:23] mrgoodcat: you'll love ubuntu wiley :) [13:23] jrwren: I didn't take anything above CS 200 level courses. I have a BS in Anthropology [13:23] mrgoodcat: less than 4 weeks away! [13:23] brousch: ah, then algorthims stuff in a college course would likely be great. [13:23] jrwren: can't wait :) [13:23] I don't plan on taking the courses, I just find it interesting what U-M is up to these days [13:24] although the only ubuntu i use has been lts as of late [13:24] brousch: oh, u-m is still all c++ afaik [13:24] so i have to wait for 16.04 [13:24] then again, it has been a few years since I met any students or recent graduates. [13:24] i'm a student [13:24] mrgoodcat: at umich? [13:24] no [13:24] but that wasn't what you said [13:25] context. [13:25] I am weak in algorithms and design patterns [13:28] I thought U-M was moving to Java when I left in 1999 [13:29] likely they were [13:29] brousch: design patterns are just knowing names for things. Its like knowing the names of birds. Its only useful if it is useful. [13:29] most schools i know of are java now [13:29] although usually there is still some c++ required [13:30] brousch: they definitely were not in the early 2000s. They were c++. I know a handful of grads who finished in '05 and they were very good c++ devs. [13:30] I was impressed because most kids coming out of college think they can code and think they know c++, but really don't. These kids were the real deal. [13:31] Then again, c++ now is quite a bit different than c++ 10 years gao :) [13:31] *ago [13:32] I still don't know Design patterns [13:32] at least the name of things [13:32] Every time I start reading about them I get bored and drift off [13:32] cmaloney: they are exceptionally dull [13:32] and knowing more than a few of them is utterly useless [13:33] many of them are language specific. [13:33] Yeah [13:33] Same with knowing bird taxonomy [13:33] e.g. Observer Pattern in C# is implemented in the language - its called events. [13:33] haha, birds. [13:34] i see a black bird, and I say, hi black bird. I see a blue bird, and I say hi blue bird. and so on... [13:35] I think knowing antipatterns is more useful than knowing design patterns. [13:35] EECS 281 (Data structures and Algorithms) kicked my butt twice. I hated memory management (C/C++) and pointers. these are the primary things that kept me from getting to 300 level CS courses [13:35] I get that we need to have lingua franca and what-not, but I'll be damned if I'll pull "Observer Pattern" out of something that's "Event driven" [13:35] memory management is tricky stuff. Even the computer doesn't get it right [13:36] this is why I use Python now, but I'm not really an awesome programmer [13:36] "Did you free that memory?" "0" "Does that mean yes?" "Banana!" [13:37] all the recent c++ trends agree. its considered bad form to use new and delete yourself now. [13:37] C++ folks have basically said, memory management is hard. [13:37] "Yo! I heard you liked releasing memory so I free'd the free'd the free'd the free'd the SEGFAULT" [13:38] Hah [13:38] jrwren: How times change [13:38] 1990 / 2000 was all about that destructor [13:39] cmaloney: well, its also a different world. 20yrs ago when I started c/c++, most programs weren't long lived. they'd run, do their thing and terminate. Now everythign is a long time running server. [13:39] cmaloney: oh, the destructor is still there and important, afaik. you just won't call delete from it :) [13:39] heh [13:39] Been a while since I looked at C++ [13:39] I need to give it a peek again [13:40] see if it makes my stomach churn [13:40] cmaloney: just be careful where you look. there is a lot of bad info, bad advice out there. [13:40] I wouldn't look at a book prior to 2010 [13:40] Bjarn actually said this in his cppcon talk [13:40] and certainly not Bjarne's book [13:40] :) [13:40] EffectiveC++ then? [13:40] possibly [13:40] I think I have that laying around [13:41] Picked up a decent looking C++ Games book [13:42] http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Through-Programming-Fourth-Edition-ebook/dp/B00LZW07P0 [13:43] "4.0 out of 5 starsI'd say taht this is a good, a realy good" [13:43] Can't go wrong with that review [13:44] why a game programming book? [13:44] I like games? :) [13:45] Plus it doesn't teach a library, all of the games are text-based [13:45] so you're not fighting with something like Unity3d while learning hte language [13:46] ha, timely: https://twitter.com/wc_duck/status/646957178235035649 [13:47] heh [13:49] for the record: I'm a total c++ n00b. [13:49] The syntax put me off [13:49] really? [13:50] well, it is hard to beat python. [13:50] It just felt like it was bastardized C to me [13:50] I find C can be quite beautiful [13:51] C++ felt like a lot of boilerplate [13:51] similar to Java [13:52] so, that is kind of what bjarne said in that same keynote. [13:52] he said most c++ is bad. [13:52] he said clases are overused, there is a reason c++ has functions just like C [13:52] he said a lot of c++ devs go out their way to use all htese complex features when simple things would work. [13:53] Did he fall on his sword because that's what it sounds like. ;) [13:56] :) [13:56] I think he more cried, "its not my fault everyone else sucks." [13:56] heh [14:23] after lots of work i finally reduced my vimrc to 72 lines (only 27 of which are actually directives) and got rid of all vim plugins [14:23] removed all the old crufty crap that i installed, used once, and forgot about [14:23] heh [14:23] my vimrc also has a comment for every single directive now [14:23] " This sets the value of a to 42 [14:23] lol [14:23] some of them are simple like that [14:24] "This ensures that something down the chain works. Fuck if I know what it actually does [14:24] " This sends my bank information to the IRS, FBI, and NDA [14:24] NSA [14:24] hah, NDA my ass [14:25] https://github.com/dyladan/dotfiles/blob/master/vimrc [14:25] I should probably do that. [14:25] it feels nice [14:26] i bet I have 27 color directives commented out, so that I know what color options are available [14:26] like replacing all your socks and getting all matching pairs [14:27] i think line 17 and 23 are my most used [14:27] You can do that? [14:27] imap jk `^:%s/ \+$//eg`^:w [14:27] imap kj [14:27] jk leaves insert mode, removes trailing spaces, and saves [14:27] kj just leaves insert mode [14:27] screw reaching for esc [14:28] i would hit that all teh time navigating up and down lines. [14:28] <_stink_> doesn't rick_h_ use jj or something? [14:28] <_stink_> for esc [14:28] jrwren: not in insert mode you wouldn't [14:28] _stink_: yes, in zsh and in vim [14:28] ftw [14:28] yes in insert mode [14:29] and it's awesome, home row and one char ftw [14:29] map esc to ` as god and the terminal on which vi was written intended :) [14:29] err, tab. [14:29] heh, except ~ moves on keyboards, especially kenisis/etc [14:29] maybe it was tab location is esc? [14:29] esc was where tab or caps lock was on that terminal [14:30] so it was close/on home row [14:30] jj is awesome, there's like 3 words that use that [14:30] and if you do NEED a jj you just type it slowly [14:30] jk and kj are the best [14:30] and in insert mode i'm not using them to move [14:30] there's a timer on that for 100ms or something [14:30] <_stink_> what words use jj? [14:30] very few if any [14:30] * cmaloney still needs to get rick_h_ a proper ADM terminal [14:30] mrgoodcat: nope, why two fingers? when you can do one? [14:30] there is no except. look at the keyboard as it was on a adm-3a, make your KB the same. then vi is usable [14:30] rick_h_: can hit faster with two [14:31] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A the KB used to write vi [14:31] mrgoodcat: with proper keys I disagree [14:31] you're not taking your finger off [14:31] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A [14:31] ;) [14:31] roll right for save roll left for not save [14:31] can hit the second key while key 1 is still down [14:31] hitting them at pretty much the same time [14:31] * jrwren maps tab to esc :) [14:31] * cmaloney looks for the "Here is" key [14:32] jrwren: how do you tab in code then? [14:32] rick_h_: i'd never do that. gofmt does it for me :) [14:32] jrwren: ugh [14:32] ctrl-i maybe :) [14:32] insanity [14:32] Or you use CTRL-I [14:32] Dammt [14:32] lol [14:32] jrwen is jinxing me [14:32] once you go jj you never go back :P [14:33] rick_h_: gofmt is opoiste of insanity. imagine all pep8 violations being automatically resolved on every file save. its glorious [14:33] unfortunately, nothing fixes my spelling. opposite? [14:33] http://www.wordfind.com/contains/jj/ [14:33] grep jj /usr/share/dict/words [14:33] jk is in Dijkstra :) [14:34] jj wins. [14:34] rick_h_: I hope you never have a Scandanavian employee. :) [14:34] http://www.wordfind.com/contains/jk/ [14:34] 1 word [14:34] 3 contain kj [14:36] more than 3 [14:36] well, blackjack, lockjaw, and some propernames. [14:37] wordfind didn't find blackjack [14:37] interesting [14:37] did find inkjet though [14:38] * rick_h_ claims enough old man greybeard cli points to guffaw at alternatives to jj :P [14:38] without any data other than experience [14:39] funnily enough I knew a gent who had an IRC nick with jj in it [14:40] * cmaloney remembers simpler times when sending +++ over IRC would reset some stupider modems [14:40] ha, inkjet isn't in dict/words :) [14:40] NOCARRIER [14:41] cmaloney: you'd tab complete that anyway and never type it :P [14:41] boom! [14:41] Well, it also assumes you're using IRC from vim in insert mmode [14:41] so MMMOOOOOOBBB [14:46] yea [15:27] Shigeto - There Is Always Hope (Mux Mool Remix) [15:27] ^ hearing an echoey voice saying "Michigan michigan michigan..." [15:27] Thanks Soma.fm [15:28] also: have a replacement for how I use last.fm [16:46] so... we went from no python podcasts, to a new one every month, it seems. [16:46] anyone want to start a python podcast? [16:54] heh === SneakyPh1l is now known as SneakyPhil [17:38] I think I've hit mini-rick_h_ [17:38] ? [17:38] I have multiple tmux sessions, each full-screen, with multiple panes in each. [17:39] but all one tmux server? [17:39] Each is it's own server [17:41] ah. bummer. that sounds rough [17:42] Nah, it's quite cool [17:42] No complaints, or I wouldn't do it [22:12] What the ... https://blog.adafruit.com/2015/09/23/a-breadboard-for-pebble-smartstrap-lovers-wearablewednesday/ [22:45] That is awesome.