[01:02] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[01:03] <daftykins> \o
[01:03] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: see the Samsung 950s finally are the drives we're looking for, for NVMe M.2 :D
[01:04] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
[01:04] <lotuspsychje> nice! lemme check on those
[01:05] <daftykins> they dropped the warranty though
[01:06] <lotuspsychje> wow crazy speeds
[01:06] <lotuspsychje> 5 years now
[01:06] <lotuspsychje> still better then 2 years 'legal' waranty though
[01:07] <lotuspsychje> but the mobo needs to be nvm ready right?
[01:08] <daftykins> yep, but to have M.2 it would be anyway
[01:08] <lotuspsychje> this is such good news for my ubuntu store tnx for the tip daftykins
[01:08] <daftykins> you're really looking at a nice skylake LGA-1151 platform really
[01:08] <daftykins> np ^_^
[01:08] <daftykins> NVMe seems to be quite the improvement
[01:08] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu 64bit LTS + 950 + i5 or i7
[01:08] <lotuspsychje> gonna rocknroll
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> !-16 gig ram lol
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> 8
[01:09] <daftykins> i wonder how quick working Linux drivers will be, to the party :)
[01:09] <daftykins> heh i'd totally consider 16GB a minimum now
[01:09] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: for the average user also?
[01:10] <lotuspsychje> would be real high end ultrabooks like that for sure
[01:10] <daftykins> depends on usage really
[01:10] <daftykins> i think i'm thinking of building for myself mainly when saying that
[01:10] <lotuspsychje> i dont see alot of 16gig ram+ in my country yet
[01:11] <lotuspsychje> yeah would be a beast :p
[01:12] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: whats max speed for m.2?
[01:12] <daftykins> well typically you've got a 4x PCI-E slot right now, so whatever the top of PCI-E v3 4x is :)
[01:12]  * daftykins checks
[01:13] <daftykins> 500MB/sec it seems
[01:13] <daftykins> per 1x
[01:13] <daftykins> ah no 1GB per sec per lane
[01:14] <daftykins> so it'd be 4GB/sec presumably o0
[01:16] <TJ-> Drivers for NVMe have been in the kernel since 2012
[01:17] <lotuspsychje> nice nice
[01:18] <lotuspsychje> so it will totaly max out samsungs new 950 speeds right
[01:18] <daftykins> doesn't mean they work well :)
[01:18] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:18] <lotuspsychje> 4 times faster then the 850
[01:19] <daftykins> Microsoft's isn't good yet so Samsung are shipping their own
[01:19] <TJ-> That's the theory; we also have block multiqueue and may of the block modules have been adapted to use it
[01:19] <lotuspsychje> samsung is becomming a huge monster
[01:19] <daftykins> i think you'd be hard pushed seeing the top speeds of contiguous write from the 950s unless you have two in M.2 slots :>
[01:19] <lotuspsychje> with their popular samsung pay
[01:21] <lotuspsychje> so for regumar sata boxes best stick to the 850 pro
[01:21] <lotuspsychje> regular
[01:21] <lotuspsychje> im gonna do alot of win to ubuntu convertings, mostly sata
[01:21] <TJ-> Anything on SATA is going to use AHCI
[01:22] <lotuspsychje> yep
[01:22] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: and whats max sata bottleneck speed?
[01:22] <lotuspsychje> 500?
[01:24] <lotuspsychje> oh here's a nice one: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9650/samsung-announces-950-pro-ssd-their-first-consumer-vnand-nvme-ssd
[01:25] <TJ-> depends on the controller/device combo generally SATA 3 is 6Gbps max
[01:25] <lotuspsychje> ok
[01:26] <daftykins> but it had a high protocol overhead so the most you see in the top SSD benchies is ~500MB/sec
[01:26] <TJ-> The main benefit of NVMe is it is a PCIe connection without any SATA interface, and it is designed for parallel operations rather than serialised
[01:28] <daftykins> no NVMe is the protocol, it doesn't influence being in a PCI-E slot
[01:28] <TJ-> random-write of 100K IOPS is useful
[01:28] <TJ-> Yes it does
[01:28] <daftykins> no, earlier M.2 has still been running AHCI just fine
[01:29] <TJ-> NVMe takes advantage of using the PCI-E lanes
[01:29] <lotuspsychje> price for the average desktop user will rise though with that 950
[01:29] <daftykins> sure it takes advantage because AHCI was designed back with mechanical, but the way you worded it was you made it out like *all* PCIe storage is NVMe :>
[01:29] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: and so does performance
[01:29] <TJ-> All NVMe is PCIe
[01:30] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: true
[01:30] <daftykins> right but not all PCIe is NVMe :>
[01:31] <lotuspsychje> 16.04 + 950pro sexy
[01:31] <daftykins> :)
[01:31] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:31] <lotuspsychje> its gonna be a wind0ws killer
[01:32] <daftykins> ...no :)
[01:32] <lotuspsychje> yes a 10 killer :p
[01:32] <daftykins> lol no
[01:33] <lotuspsychje> ill make everyone forget ubuntu remix for sure in my country
[01:33] <daftykins> oh dear this NAS really is dead, responds to ping but won't even give me the web admin anymore
[01:33] <lotuspsychje> wich brand
[01:33] <daftykins> 7 year old WD My Book World Edition II
[01:33] <lotuspsychje> loool
[01:33]  * lotuspsychje hates wd
[01:33] <daftykins> more of a toy :)
[01:33] <daftykins> nothing wrong with WD \o/
[01:33] <lotuspsychje> i had so many data loss on those wd books
[01:33] <daftykins> well, drives are fine, not so much their appliances like this :>
[01:34] <lotuspsychje> i swear by seagates for mechanical
[01:34] <daftykins> it's a clients backup drive for her macs, i'm going to call it retirement time now
[01:34] <daftykins> seriously? they have the shortest warranty length and highest failure rate of all brands on their 3TB models
[01:34] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: whats your fav hd?
[01:35] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: i dont like too big drives in a box
[01:35] <daftykins> that 'davidlinuxidiot' user seems to have another of those windows 8.1 Bing edition acer things
[01:36] <daftykins> TJ-: did you ever solve that guy a while agos boot issues that had one?
[01:36] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:36] <lotuspsychje> i really dont understand why ppl messing with w8 uefi dualboots
[01:37] <lotuspsychje> i formatted so many boxes single with trusty now
[01:37] <daftykins> well 8.1 with bind is some retarded edition that's clipped i think from the outset, so probably trying to put on a fully featured OS for free
[01:37] <lotuspsychje> looool
[01:37] <daftykins> although actually maybe it was only the default search engines, i don't remember
[01:37] <daftykins> all i remember is that bug cropping up because they couldn't have another OS installed, due to booting a 32-bit EFI
[01:38] <daftykins> pretty sure TJ- proved i was wrong about that on these acer models though
[01:38] <lotuspsychje> that would be a nice comercial MOTD
[01:38] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Fave? one that works
[01:38] <lotuspsychje> win10 the retarded edition
[01:38] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: dont have favorite brands you would buy?
[01:38] <TJ-> daftykins: yeah, it was a weird issue with the UEFI setup
[01:39] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: that's pointless. All manufacturers have good and bad batches/models
[01:39] <lotuspsychje> yes, so you dont buy the ones with bad models
[01:40] <lotuspsychje> maybe i should have asked favorite model + brand
[01:41] <lotuspsychje> but nvm :p
[01:43] <daftykins> now now, your Windows hatred drags down your e-persona :D
[01:44] <lotuspsychje> lol
[01:45] <lotuspsychje> win was already a warzone of exploits..
[01:45] <lotuspsychje> now with the retarded edition...they will hit a worldwide record
[01:45] <lotuspsychje> spyware and exploit bundle
[01:47] <daftykins> :( makes me sad to see you act like all OSs aren't without their problems
[01:48] <lotuspsychje> yeah sure ios9 with siri! lol
[01:48] <lotuspsychje> another bad nightmare
[01:49] <lotuspsychje> more stolen celeb pics about to come out
[01:55] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: not at all, I've been around long enough to realise a 'favourite' is blind bias. Favourites can have bad batches
[01:57] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: you mean investigating a picking carefully is better? thats the lesson out of this?
[01:58] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: when I was still running IT companies we would regularly settle on a particular make/model and then get hit by bad batches (by which I mean failure rates of 25%+ within 6 months)
[01:58] <lotuspsychje> i see
[01:58] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: we learned to simply use several different manufacturers/models/technologies to avoid taking a major hit
[01:58] <lotuspsychje> thats good thinking
[01:59] <TJ-> it cost less even though the per-unit cost was higher because we couldn't get larger volume discounts, because we saved on the replacement costs
[01:59] <lotuspsychje> not have the mass similar bugs
[01:59] <TJ-> Every replacement meant an engineer sent out on site; possibly some data-recovery element, too
[01:59] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: but in the back of your head there must be a base thought os stability too right?
[01:59] <lotuspsychje> of
[02:00] <lotuspsychje> you ant go choose random stuff neither right
[02:00] <lotuspsychje> cant
[02:00] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: generally, buy the devices the manufacturers stand behind with decent warranties
[02:00] <lotuspsychje> like the 850pro dangerous 10 years :p
[02:01] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: enable full smart monitoring and alerting, and act on it
[02:01] <lotuspsychje> ok
[02:01] <lotuspsychje> we learn years of experience tricks here :p good one TJ-
[02:03] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I entered the PC business when the IBM PC was released :)
[02:04] <lotuspsychje> nice nice
[02:05] <lotuspsychje> im little younger started
[02:05] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I recall for 1 research project the manufacturer shipped me 4 320MB (MB!) SCSI full height external drives directly from the factory because they were keen on winning the supply contract. Back then you could have decent relationships with the manufacturers and their engineers. Nowadays its all about volume and commodity and you have no influence
[02:05] <lotuspsychje> with c64 for apetizer
[02:06] <lotuspsychje> thats true
[02:06] <lotuspsychje> big data world now
[02:06] <TJ-> Not so much that; but at the comsumer PC end everything is driven on price, and miserly margins
[02:06] <lotuspsychje> thats why i wanna start business close and personal service
[02:06] <TJ-> there is no margin for the supplier to provide decent support unless you're buying 100,000 drives
[02:08] <lotuspsychje> like EriC^^ suggested alibaba container full boxes
[02:08] <TJ-> If you have a good relationship with the supplier sure, otherwise you might be getting the pickings of the reject bin
[02:08] <lotuspsychje> so with my small business ill be a nobody
[02:09] <TJ-> Direct Chinese supply is alll about the personal relationship. Arms-length doesn't work at all
[02:09] <lotuspsychje> but still make clients happy with decent ubuntu experience
[02:09] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Yes, to make a margin to actually make a living you'll need to provide a level of support they recognise and want and are prepared to pay for.
[02:10] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: so you have to go to the pink bar with the chinese boss to relation lol like in the movies
[02:10] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: and to make that work for you, you have to automate every possible step of the process from supply to post-sales support so it doesn't eat up your most valuable asset: time
[02:10] <lotuspsychje> im gonna do business from own home
[02:10] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: With the Chinese their business culture is all about relationships and helping each other out, getting commissions for introductions, helping other family members, etc.
[02:11] <lotuspsychje> small, personal, lil more time
[02:11] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Yes, and a pre-configured remote support option that gives you fast and easy access to the customer's PC as soon as they give you permission to connect.
[02:11] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: over ssh?
[02:12] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: We found that was our key selling point. Once we demonstrated connecting to their PC to help them within 5 seconds of a phone call coming in, they loved us
[02:12] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: For Linux, yes.
[02:13] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'd preconfigure a VPN server that all customer's can allow their PC to connect to for support, then connect to their PC using SSH within the VPN tunnel.
[02:13] <lotuspsychje> nice idea
[02:13] <lotuspsychje> instant remote solving
[02:13] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: that way you don't have to worry about getting through their firewall/NAT, since their PC makes the outbound connection to your public server.
[02:13] <lotuspsychje> but the problem is i dont very like unsecure remote things running 24/7
[02:14] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: You could even sell them a value-add service: remote health monitoring, and simply have a script on their PC submit the /var/log/ files once a day to you via the VPN, and have automated grepping of them for signs of problems
[02:14] <daftykins> that's also do-able with VNC listen, albeit sounds a lot safer :D
[02:14] <lotuspsychje> brrrr no vnc
[02:15] <daftykins> ^_^
[02:15] <daftykins> just one from the many moons ago
[02:15] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: The customer doesn't need the VPN up unless they need help, or for submitting reports, which can auto up/down the VPN
[02:15] <lotuspsychje> i like the instant remote help for time saving
[02:16] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: once you've called a customer and warned them about a problem on their PC they weren't aware of, word of how amazing you are will spread rapidly
[02:16] <lotuspsychje> good hint
[02:16] <lotuspsychje> hmmm nice+
[02:17] <lotuspsychje> alot of pc stores i know installing linux, are root on a customers box
[02:17] <lotuspsychje> and no rights for the user lol
[02:17] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: use dedicated email for support, where each PC/sale gets a unique email address e.g. "support.<invoice-numer>@support.lotuspsychje.com"
[02:17] <lotuspsychje> cool
[02:18] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: have the PC configured to submit reports by email instead of VPN, maybe, and have the address pre-set in the mail client, and a browser bookmark to your customer help login, etc.
[02:18] <lotuspsychje> yeah browser bookmark surely good idea
[02:18] <lotuspsychje> as i config firefox with speed dial bookies
[02:19] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: a week spent preparing such facilities before the business launches will pay back very quickly. Trying to put the process in-place after you start is a nightmare
[02:19] <lotuspsychje> fast and easy
[02:19] <lotuspsychje> also good thinking
[02:19] <lotuspsychje> maube i should make a pstree of the whole process
[02:20] <lotuspsychje> ill write all the hint togheter
[02:21] <lotuspsychje> then make flowchart before acting
[02:21] <TJ-> It's worth using a proper project planning aid for this kind of thing, so you can assign realistic time to the various tasks and identify the critical path
[02:22] <lotuspsychje> yeah but not everyone is t3ch enough like you to see the truth in IT comerce
[02:23] <lotuspsychje> my school lesson for the business degree, they wanted to meet other IT business togheter with me, and they even didnt understand what 'barebone' was
[02:23] <TJ-> There's a neat Project Planner I use; on my Trusty install right now, trying to recall what its called. Rational Plan I think. Very good value, and very well worth it
[02:24] <lotuspsychje> nice!
[02:24] <TJ-> see http://www.rationalplan.com/project-management-products.php
[02:25] <TJ-> I use the MultiProject version but you'd be fine with the SingleProject
[02:25] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[02:25] <TJ-> Single is free for Linux, but the US$57 is extremely good value if you choose to buy
[02:30] <TJ-> daftykins: did you see davidlinuxidiot's Acer solution!?
[02:33] <TJ-> Acer UEFI defaults to booting the first valid Boot Menu entry. Re-ordering the entries on the "Boot" Setup screen works.
[02:43] <TJ-> F12 key at boot brings up the Boot Menu, too
[02:44] <daftykins> he already had WBM at the end and the disk first, i thought that was all that was needed
[02:47] <TJ-> daftykins: It seems as if the Boot menu only lists 8 entries, so Ubuntu never showed up even though it was in the boot menu.
[02:48] <TJ-> It seems as if the Boot menu is always populated by the fixed and removable device loaders first, which pushes everything else off the menu
[02:48] <TJ-> sorry, pushes it off the *displayed* menu
[02:49] <TJ-> I suspect number 9 would have been Ubuntu, since efibootmgr showed Windows was Boot0002 and Ubuntu Boot0003
[02:49] <daftykins> haha, oh dear that's an odd one
[02:49] <daftykins> seems Acer need to go on our bad guys list
[02:49] <TJ-> Yeah, no wonder we've been caught out by it so many times!
[02:49] <TJ-> At least we now know what to do without hours of frustration :)
[02:50] <daftykins> weird how the standard disk device doesn't pass to GRUB ok
[02:50] <TJ-> I suspect because it's trying the Simple Media Path (EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI)
[02:51] <TJ-> I recall solving one of these by copying the grub boot loader to that path
[02:51] <TJ-> So it's an InsydeH2O BIOS issue, not just Acer
[02:52] <TJ-> s/BIOS/UEFI/
[02:52] <TJ-> I'll save the photos of the Setup screen; might be helpful later
[05:01] <lotuspsychje> !info firefox
[06:46] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/ubuntu-16-04-lts-aims-to-be-an-os-with-great-accessibility-features-492672.shtml
[07:17] <lordievader> Good morning
[23:59] <daftykins> O_.
[23:59] <daftykins> the weekend is upon us