[11:59] <cmaloney> Morning
[12:13] <rick_h_> morn
[12:54] <brousch> quark
[13:03] <brousch> cmaloney: I just read your blog post. Why pygame?
[13:04] <cmaloney> brousch: Why not?
[13:05] <brousch> It's pretty much dead
[13:05] <cmaloney> brousch: I don't have evidence of that
[13:06] <brousch> http://www.pygame.org/download.shtml
[13:06] <cmaloney> so it's stable then. ;)
[13:06] <brousch> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Pygame/1.7.1
[13:07] <cmaloney> (there's talk of Pygame 2)
[13:07] <cmaloney> Um, 1.9.2
[13:07] <brousch> No widgets, poor python 3 support, no mobile support
[13:08] <cmaloney> Sounds like heaven
[13:08] <cmaloney> What would you suggest instead?
[13:08] <brousch> Kivy, of course. With Kivent as a game engine if you need it
[13:09] <cmaloney> Does it support tiled?
[13:09] <cmaloney> http://pygame.org/project-Tiled+TMX+Loader-2036-.html
[13:10] <brousch> I have no idea
[13:10] <cmaloney> what games are written for Kivy / Kivent?
[13:10] <brousch> there's also Panda3D http://www.panda3d.org/
[13:12] <brousch> tile https://github.com/kivy/kivy/wiki/Tiled-Maps-%26-Tile-Based-Movement
[13:14] <cmaloney> https://github.com/craigmaloney/pygame_book
[13:17] <brousch> Very cool
[13:17] <cmaloney> So I'm not too far along with it, and already you're telling me to throw out what I have and start over. ;)
[13:17] <brousch> I just feel that pygame has run its course. More modern tools are available
[13:18] <cmaloney> I can live with that.
[13:18] <brousch> But new PyGame books still come out
[13:19] <brousch> A Kivent game https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.chozabu.boardzfree&hl=en
[13:24] <brousch> Another Kivent app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.chaosbuffalogames.particlepanda2
[13:25] <cmaloney> Nice thing is SDL2 isn't on Precise. :)
[13:26] <cmaloney> yes, I'm on a way-too-old install
[13:26] <brousch> d00d
[13:27] <brousch> I think I still have 2 virtual servers on 12.04
[13:32] <jrwren> if it is not python3, it is dead to me. ;p
[13:32] <jrwren> brousch: precise is still supported. It is OK.
[13:34] <brousch> I actually have a 10.04 also because I need the ancient samba to make Lotus 1-2-3 happy
[13:37] <jrwren> really?
[13:37] <brousch> Really
[13:37] <jrwren> why does 1-2-3 care?
[13:37] <brousch> Because it is older than dirt
[13:38] <jrwren> but... but...
[13:38] <jrwren> 1-2-3 for windows, right?
[13:38] <jrwren> if it is using windows api it shouldn't care where the file is.
[13:38] <jrwren> 1-2-3 must be doing something evil.
[13:38] <brousch> Windows 3.1 APIs
[13:38] <jrwren> ancient version of 1-2-3?
[13:38] <jrwren> V4 ?
[13:39] <brousch> 1-2-3 R5
[13:39] <brousch> It will open files on newer Samba, but sees them as locked for writing
[13:41] <jrwren> that is interesting.
[14:08] <brousch> The last modified dates on the install files are 1994
[14:08] <brousch> The year I graduated from high school
[14:12] <jrwren> lol.
[14:12] <jrwren> I think I remember that release. V4 was the last DOS release. I supported it at my first IT job, straight out of high school, summer of '95  and V5 was the same time windows release. Windows 3.1, becuase '95 didn't come out for a few more months.
[14:13] <jrwren> They hadn't synced up their version numbers. it was V4 DOS, V5 Win.
[14:19] <brousch> yes
[14:58] <cmaloney> Ok, this is just a PITA getting Kivy installed
[14:59] <cmaloney> At least on this old system.
[15:06] <brousch> heh
[15:06] <brousch> Does the PPA work on it?
[15:06] <cmaloney> No, there's a Python 3 PPA that needs installing
[15:07] <brousch> ah
[15:07] <cmaloney> which then needs Python3, which needs ...
[15:07] <cmaloney> er python3 numpy, which needs ...
[15:07] <brousch> Yeah, that is kind of ugly right now
[15:07] <cmaloney> Not to mention SDL2
[15:07] <cmaloney> Not that Pygame is easier to install in a virtualenv, but I've done it enough
[15:08] <cmaloney> and worst case I'll create a Python Game book where we look at several frameworks
[15:08] <cmaloney> Figure where the spirit takes me and work accordingly.
[15:08] <cmaloney> The book I want is something that's a little more pragmatic and not as "beginner friendly"
[15:09] <brousch> I use custom scripts to install kivy, but haven't updated them in a while https://github.com/brousch/kivy-installer
[15:10] <brousch> I know the cython version in them is wrong now
[15:14] <jrwren> oooh... cython!
[15:16] <brousch> Yes, a lot of cython in kivy
[15:19] <brousch> I have not touched the stuff
[15:21] <jrwren> I love cython.
[15:33] <brousch> I prefer pure Python because it runs anywhere without silliness like compiling
[15:33] <jrwren> yeah sure, as long as you don't care how fast it runs.
[15:33] <jrwren> i like cython because I often care about how fast things run.
[17:13] <brousch> Get moar hardware!
[21:47] <gamerchick02> i reinstalled and my laptop is working now. so that's strange