[14:14] <gQuigs> is xfce4-mixer still needed in studio?  it's not included in xubuntu anymore...
[14:14] <gQuigs> (it's the only thing keeping gstreamer0.10 on the dvd apparently)
[14:36] <zequence> gQuigs: Is there a problem with including gstreamer?
[14:38] <gQuigs> zequence: it's using the old gstreamer0.10 instead of the modern gstreamer1.x (1.6)
[14:38] <gQuigs> zequence: I've been working to remove it from a lot of the default DVDs, but I didn't think ubuntu-studio could get there for this release, turns out someone else fixes dvdstyler, so it's the only package left
[14:40] <zequence> gQuigs: Let me have a look tomorrow. If we don't use it for something important, then of course we can drop it
[14:40] <zequence> And, thanks for letting us know.
[14:41] <gQuigs> zequence: sure thing, I'll prepare a merge request too 
[14:45] <gQuigs> and uploaded - https://code.launchpad.net/~bryanquigley/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.wily/+merge/273417,  I understand it's late in the cycle for this...
[15:32] <Troubadour> Hi there was a call for iso testing Ubuntu Studio 15:10, so I am trying (first time). I just installed Ubuntu studio Wily (daily build yesterday) in a Virtualbox. The recommended 8G storage was too small, 10G did it. What is the best way to report. (I get lost in the QA tracker website)
[15:32] <Troubadour> (also said in #ubuntu+1)
[15:33] <holstein> Troubadour: you can use the qa tracker. and do the tests that we need for release
[15:33] <holstein> !bug
[15:33] <holstein> also ^
[15:33] <holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO
[15:35] <Troubadour> I am not sure it is a bug.
[15:35] <holstein> oh.. im not saying, or suggesting it is either. im just saying, thats a place where one can report issues..
[15:35] <Troubadour> I do not remember where it was recommended to use 8G of storage.
[15:35] <holstein> anyways.. virtualbox is "suggesting" that space
[15:36] <holstein> you can just use a larger amount of space, or, if you find that a wiki guide is suggesting 8, and you think it should or needs to be 10, you can update that
[15:36] <Troubadour> Yes that sounds less pedantic :-)
[15:37] <Troubadour> Tx holstein, willdo!
[15:38] <holstein> Troubadour: cheers, and thanks for your time testing!
[15:43] <zequence> Ubuntu Studio requires a bit more than 8GB. Virtualbox is not aware of that, and when you create a new virtual driver for Virtual Box, you just need to make it larger than default
[15:43] <zequence> I usually make it 20GB, just in case - if I continue to do testing and need to install a bunch of stuff
[15:44] <Troubadour> That is what I did, and though it took a lot of time, it did install and run. I will try again with 12G, see if it is faster.
[15:44] <zequence> Troubadour: Since the Beta is already released, there's no point in reporting the results at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com, however if you do find bugs, it would help if you reported them.
[15:45] <zequence> Troubadour: You are welcome to join testing the final release in a couple of weeks.
[15:46] <zequence> It's great that you take the time to learn how to do it now. Though quite simple, if everything goes smoothly, there's still a lot to take in if you are very new to it.
[15:46] <Troubadour> There are a lot of very old pieces in the examples. 
[15:47] <zequence> Final Release is Thursday, October 22nd
[15:47] <Troubadour> Good luck!
[15:49] <zequence> Testing the final release can be done the whole week before hand. There will most likely be rebuilds during that time, so it won't be the same ISO until the very end, but still, it's good to make sure the Ubuntu Studio specific stuff is good.
[15:50] <Troubadour> Where will the new builds be announced?
[15:51] <zequence> Troubadour: The irc channel for release related stuff is #ubuntu-release, but don't think it's announced in any formal way. I usually just check the build version in http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
[15:51] <holstein> i'll ask in that channel, patiently, as well
[15:52] <holstein> so i can try and see if a new build is out, or coming out
[15:52] <holstein> i have tested the build, as the newer one is coming out..
[15:52] <Troubadour> Ah (I had thoughtmaybe  #ubuntu+1)
[15:52] <holstein> a wasted effort.. if you test one, and a new one is coming out, the new one is the one that needs to be tested..
[15:52] <zequence> There's also #ubuntu-quality
[15:53] <Troubadour> Sure, I thought yesterdays was the latest.
[15:53] <zequence> We don't really test the daily
[15:53] <Troubadour> Ah
[15:53] <zequence> There's at least one new build every day, until a freeze
[15:53] <Troubadour> Good to know
[15:53] <zequence> Check for releases and freezes here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
[15:54] <Troubadour> Yes! 
[15:54] <zequence> Final Freeze is 15th October, which means no changes allowed, unless you are fixing something critical. And, if something was fixed that somehow affects our ISO, our ISO will be rebuilt
[15:55] <holstein> no *changes*.. but, iso's can be rebuilt as much as necessary..
[15:55] <zequence> The ISO is only rebuilt if something changed
[15:55] <Troubadour> That sounds cryptic
[15:56] <holstein> the iso can be rebuilt, so, i say, as a step to not waste time, as i have in the past, just ask..
[15:56] <zequence> Actually, that's not how I do it.
[15:57] <Troubadour> Please enlighten this iso testing noob.
[15:57] <zequence> Troubadour: When the freeze happens, I will announce testing on the mail list. If you're up to it, just join us then.
[15:58] <zequence> I'll be on IRC, as well as other team members. Also, you may ask anything on the mail list as well.
[15:58] <Troubadour> I will, (If I can find the time)
[15:58] <holstein> *i* have have the iso change, as is stated above, that it can, *after* freeze.. that is all
[15:59] <holstein> it can change, is all.. and it wont hurt to just make sure you are testing the latest..
[15:59] <zequence> The most critical testing time is the actual release day. But, it's good to do some testing a few days before hand
[16:00] <zequence> holstein: If you want to catch a Ubuntu Studio specific bug, you can test the ISO anytime. However, the ISO that is to be released needs to be tested just for the sake of being able to mark it ready for release
[16:01] <Troubadour> The formal aspect, right.
[16:01] <Troubadour> ?
[16:01] <zequence> One could say, those are two different kinds of tests. The first is for actually testing the release, the other to just make sure it boots and installs so you know it's at all functional for release
[16:01] <holstein> zequence: im actualy not asking.. but, thanks
[16:02] <zequence> holstein: I just wanted to make sure you also were aware of this, so that if someone asks for help you dont confuse them
[16:02] <zequence> No offence
[16:03] <Troubadour> It would be good to have some yardsticks ^w metrics like: you should be able to record out of the box plus card drivers.
[16:03] <holstein> zequence: i linked the bug tracker, for normal bugs.. thats what you are talking about? correct?
[16:03] <holstein> anyone, anytimme, can download any iso, and test the pacakges and file a bug..
[16:04] <zequence> Troubadour: What you are talking about is what we call test cases. We don't have a lot of them yet. If you would like to get involved, you are most welcome to help us writing some.
[16:04] <holstein> but, the iso's qa testing happens at milestones. and, all im saying is, as a person who has tested one, and a new one came out.. just check and be sure its the latest..
[16:04] <holstein> or, that none are being built..
[16:04] <holstein> it would be rough, to take the afternoon, as i did, and test, and have that time wasted..
[16:04] <holstein> zequence: but, if i may PM you?
[16:05] <zequence> Troubadour: A test case is what you see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Testing/ISOTesting#Performing_a_test
[16:06] <Troubadour> So, the release testing can teach me the ways toreport. I would really love to see a distro, that as goog as works right out of the iso.
[16:06] <zequence> holstein: Sure
[16:10] <Troubadour> zequence: is there a list of Ubuntu Studio specific testcases?
[16:11] <zequence> Troubadour: Hang on.
[16:11] <Troubadour> NP
[16:20] <zequence> Troubadour: The test cases are in a source repository. Have you worked with those at all before?
[16:21] <zequence> Ubuntu uses bazaar for most of their source. You may have heard of git, and subversion before?
[16:22] <Troubadour> and ndvr bedore (1980)
[16:22] <Troubadour> before
[16:22] <Troubadour> That was a mainframe CM package
[16:23] <Troubadour> Do you have a link?
[16:23] <zequence> Troubadour: We had some help in setting these up, but we haven't had anyone with the time or drive to do anything with these.
[16:23] <zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Testing/Testcases
[16:23] <Troubadour> I will have a loook.
[16:23] <Troubadour> Tx
[16:24] <zequence> Each bug probably has this link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Manual
[16:24] <zequence> I can't actually help you much with that, since I have not done it myself yet
[16:25] <zequence> The way to do it is general for all Ubuntu, so, maybe ask in #ubuntu-quality for help
[16:25] <zequence> Or, here, if it concerns bzr, or whatever
[16:25] <Troubadour> I am really looking for audio specific testing.
[16:26] <zequence> Troubadour: There are no test cases written yet, but if you like, you could help us with that.
[16:26] <Troubadour> But any bugs I find along the way, I am happy to report. That is the only way to get some quality.
[16:26] <zequence> Well, you can do testing without test cases too
[16:27] <zequence> Also, then you want to test the daily.
[16:27] <Troubadour> It is a nice target. I will start with learning to deal with bugs in general.
[16:27] <zequence> But, no reason to report it at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
[16:27] <Troubadour> Yes that is clear.
[16:27] <zequence> Just, when you find a bug, you do: ubuntu-bug <package>
[16:29] <Troubadour> Hm, I have done that a few time, but also a few were rejected (firrst remove all proprietary packages - unfortunately without mentioning which is the offensive one)
[16:30] <zequence> Bug reporting can be hard :)
[16:30] <Troubadour> I also did a kernel bisection, finding a USB bug.
[16:30] <zequence> Cool
[16:30] <Troubadour> I felt a little proud :-)
[16:30] <zequence> Troubadour: Do you have a launchpad account?
[16:30] <Troubadour> Yes
[16:32] <Troubadour> Thank you very much, I have to leave in a few minutes.
[16:36] <zequence> Troubadour: Add yourself as a member to the lp team ubuntustudio-bugs, if you want to receive multimedia specific bugs
[16:37] <zequence> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-bugs
[16:37] <zequence> If you report a bug for any multimedia package, it will probably be sent to members
[16:37] <Troubadour> Tx again this was a very worthwhile chat.
[16:37] <Troubadour> I will
[16:37] <zequence> Also, if you ever find something critical it may be a good idea to tell us directly too
[16:38] <zequence> We don't fix a lot of them, but at least if we really have to
[16:38] <Troubadour> Won´t hesitate :-)
[16:38] <zequence> Great! And thank you!
[16:39] <Troubadour> ¨You have successfully joined Ubuntu Studio Bugs.¨ 
[20:06] <OvenWerks> zequence: xfce4-mixer is not needed. I am not sure if we ship qasmixer, but it is much nicer and includes more stuff. We do include alsamixer for sure :)
[20:12] <DalekSec> No, that uses a gstreamer0.10 backend, if anything xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin would be of interest.
[20:14] <OvenWerks> DalekSec: we do use that, but for many things an alsa mixer is a must. Pulse does not nice things that are ok for desktop but not for audio production.
[20:16] <OvenWerks> qasmixer does not list gstreamer as a dep.
[20:17] <DalekSec> xfce4-mixer*
[20:17] <OvenWerks> DalekSec: DalekSec we don't need xfce4-mixer.
[20:19] <OvenWerks> xfce4-mixer does not make working with high i/o count cards easy. Or cards that have lots of settings. QASmixer is better, though still not as good as dedicated controllers like mudita24.
[20:20] <OvenWerks> DalekSec: I was responding to an earlier query by 07:14 < gQuigs> is xfce4-mixer still needed in studio?
[20:21] <DalekSec> Mm.  I was commenting that xfce4-mixer is basically deprecated overall.
[20:22] <OvenWerks> DalekSec: Yes, and I guess it isstanding in the way of a newer gstreamer
[20:23] <OvenWerks> DalekSec: gQuigs wants us to remove it from Studio. I am happy to see that happen.
[20:24] <DalekSec> Good move, IMO.  Not sure you've seen it, but https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=785846
[20:24] <OvenWerks> zequence: ^^^
[20:25] <OvenWerks> zequence: if we do not include qasmixer, adding it to seeds would be part of the bug fix.
[20:25] <DalekSec> (FWIW, you're the only Ubuntu Xfce flavor shipping it, Myth and Xubuntu don't.)
[20:26] <OvenWerks> :)
[20:28] <OvenWerks> zequence: qasmixer is already in ubuntustudio-audio.
[20:28] <OvenWerks> zequence: xfce4-mixer is a recomends in ubuntustudio-desktop