[12:19] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[15:52] <freeroute> hi BluesKaj
[15:52] <vertago1> I am having issues with random kde apps locking up when I try to open a file. It doesn't always happen so it is hard to submit a good bug report.
[15:57] <BluesKaj> hey freeroute
[15:58] <BluesKaj> vertago1:  are your packages up to date?
[15:59] <vertago1> I just did an update so i will have to restart sddm or reboot if I want to make sure everything is reloaded.
[16:00] <vertago1> Any tips on what I should I do to isolate the problem when it happens? I was thinking to try and get a core dump using gdb while the app is locked up
[16:06] <vertago1> BluesKaj, most of the packages were up-to-date. I usually run dist-upgrade atleast once a day. The updates I just installed were mostly gtk, apt, related with the kde-thumbnailers too
[16:07] <BluesKaj> vet any ppas?
[16:07] <BluesKaj> vertago1: ^
[16:08] <vertago1> canonical partners, and dl.google.com/linux/dev/ stable main for chrome
[16:10] <vertago1> I saw a similar problem that was more readily reproducable with okteta, but it was already fixed
[16:16] <vertago1> I just got it to happen again
[16:16] <vertago1> I am going to try to get a core dump
[16:22] <vertago1> The top of the stack is: #0  0x00007f4b9196f8dd in poll () at ../sysdeps/unix/syscall-template.S:81
[16:22] <vertago1> #1  0x00007f4b8a2c61ec in g_main_context_iterate (priority=2147483647, n_fds=9, fds=0x17899e0, timeout=<optimized out>, context=0x7f4b780016f0) at /build/glib2.0-3UmwzF/glib2.0-2.46.0/./glib/gmain.c:4135
[16:22] <vertago1> #2  0x00007f4b8a2c61ec in g_main_context_iterate (context=context@entry=0x7f4b780016f0, block=block@entry=1, dispatch=dispatch@entry=1, self=<optimized out>) at /build/glib2.0-3UmwzF/glib2.0-2.46.0/./glib/gmain.c:3835
[16:22] <vertago1> #3  0x00007f4b8a2c62fc in g_main_context_iteration (context=0x7f4b780016f0, may_block=1)
[16:22] <vertago1>     at /build/glib2.0-3UmwzF/glib2.0-2.46.0/./glib/gmain.c:3901
[16:22] <vertago1> #4  0x00007f4b8e7cd27f in QEventDispatcherGlib::processEvents(QFlags<QEventLoop::ProcessEventsFlag>) ()
[16:22] <vertago1>     at /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5Core.so.5
[16:43] <jonathan_> if i install beta 2 of 15.10 now, will i have a regular 15.10 system after it is released (22nd) or will it keep saying that i have a development build?
[16:45] <k1l_> its going regular with the updates
[16:45] <vertago1> I restared sddm to see if the kde-thumbnailers update was the problem
[16:45] <vertago1> or glib
[16:46] <jonathan_> k1l_: including the kernel lines and identifications?
[16:46] <k1l_> jonathan_: everything.
[16:46] <jonathan_> thanks
[16:47] <k1l_> but that means you are on the general packages and did not isntall special development stuff (like mainline kernels) yourself
[16:50] <jonathan_> yeah i'm just concerned with not having 2-year old applications. Most linux distributions in the "stable" line really have way old software and you need "unstable" or whatever to get anything that is remotely the newest version.
[16:51] <jonathan_> like debian stable (jessie) still has Squid at version 4, while version 5 was released in last Januari.
[16:52] <jonathan_> unfortunately that often also means to get all of the experimental stuff that goes on in the distribution/kernel/whatever system itself.
[16:52] <jonathan_> since it is mostly a single big package you're getting.
[16:52] <k1l_> jonathan_: debian stable is a lot worse than ubuntu LTS, imho
[16:53] <jonathan_> i know, that's true or it was said to me that that was so..
[16:53] <jonathan_> lemme check something :p.
[16:55] <jonathan_> well i thought restoring a running virtualbox instance of a live session of ubuntu was going to work :p, but I guess I'm just new to these things....
[16:57] <jonathan_> anway
[16:57] <jonathan_> anyway*.
[16:58] <jonathan_> oh lol my own mistake :p.
[16:59] <jonathan_> i unmounted the DVD image that it was depending on.
[17:01] <vertago1> yeah removing the live CD during the live CD session will mess things up
[17:05] <jonathan_> ;-).
[17:09] <jonathan_> so yeah, it seems also (k)ubuntu 14.04 has Squid at version 3.3.8, which was released in july of 2013......
[17:09] <jonathan_> and you're telling me that's not bad ;-).
[17:10] <k1l_> jonathan_: well. its part of the release system. there are freezes prior to the release. and most packages dont get version updates (just security and heavy bug fixing patches, which dont increase the version number)
[17:10] <jonathan_> yeah i guess... i know, I think.
[17:11] <k1l_> jonathan_: so if you are a "i want the latest all the time" you want to use a rolling release distro, with all the downsides of that
[17:11] <jonathan_> is there really not a good way to find alternative repos like it has in e.g. openSUSE?
[17:11] <jonathan_> right, rolling release.
[17:12] <jonathan_> it's just that software and the base system itself should not be intrinsically dependent on one another.
[17:12] <k1l_> ubuntu got the PPA system
[17:12] <jonathan_> i know but it's always a pain finding those other ppas
[17:12] <jonathan_> right
[17:12] <k1l_> but you need to get rid of the "i need the latest" to "do i really need the latest or do i just want the latest"
[17:13] <jonathan_> hey, come one, don't be like that.
[17:13] <jonathan_> for e.g. squid it is pretty essential.
[17:13] <jonathan_> if you use an older version of squid it has ssl-bump issues because the latest codecs/ciphers are not supported.
[17:14] <jonathan_> and "modern" browsers are pushing a security enforcement model on ssl/tls
[17:15] <jonathan_> but it's pretty normal, and also pretty common and natural to want latest-release versions, since that is what the authors are also pushing, unless you have reasons not to follow that.
[17:16] <jonathan_> there is no reason to live in a 2-year old software landscape, usually.
[17:16] <jonathan_> e.g. NetworkManager has certain VPN features that I need at version 1.0
[17:17] <jonathan_> not sure about anything else it offers though.
[17:19] <jonathan_> the funny thing is that suse, no matter how detestable in other areas, has a really easy way to install newer-version software because there are scores of people running their own repos.
[17:19] <k1l_> ubuntu got PPAs. they are linked on launchpad.
[17:19] <jonathan_> mostly because they all just use the suse build service i believe.
[17:22] <jonathan_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=network-manager -- impossible to find a 1.0 build unless you choose "daily unstable"
[17:24] <k1l_> networkmanager is called stable 1.0 on 19.12.2014. so no wonder its not in 14.04
[17:28] <jonathan_> sure, that's not what I'm saying, I'm just looking at how hard it is to install it manually
[17:29] <jonathan_> But it's version 1.0 in Wily, so that's good (for me) (not that that matters all that much here)....
[17:31] <jonathan_> there are no ppas that actually have 1.0 for ....whatever, it's just what you find if you search Launchpad for this. Just a simple example, of what I was trying or might have been trying to do.
[17:31] <jonathan_> Even the ppa I mentioned (daily trunk builds) is not updated for 2 years :p.
[17:32] <jonathan_> by contrast in openSUSE within 1 minute you will have found 6 different builds of 1.0 network-manager by 6 different people ;-).
[17:33] <jonathan_> i was just wondering if i was missing something in ubuntu (due to my own fault) but I guess this is just the way it is..... ;?
[17:33] <jonathan_> opensuse 13.2 (stable) also has nm at version 0.8
[17:33] <jonathan_> or something
[17:33] <jonathan_> it is just rather easy, if still annoying, to install a newer version if you want.
[17:33] <k1l_> the PPAs do use a build system too at launchpad. so if there is no one who thinks that a NM 1.0 is mandatory and the old and patched versions are fine? go and make a PPA
[17:34] <jonathan_> rather hard is it, to admit that something is true.
[17:35] <k1l_> jonathan_: you made it look like everyone is needing that asap. (because that seems the case on suse?) but in general it doesnt look like that to me
[17:35] <jonathan_> i do not speak for everyone, just for myself in this case.
[17:36] <jonathan_> and no that is not or does not seem(?) the case on suse
[17:36] <jonathan_> there is no difference there, from what i know.
[17:37] <jonathan_> and
[17:37] <jonathan_> making a ppa just so i don't need to compile it myself, kinda defeats the purpose of not compiling it yourself, now does it ? ;-).
[17:39] <jonathan_> opensuse, for some reason, just has hideous fonts. I have seen other people mention it that only Ubuntu has good looking fonts for some reason.
[17:40] <jonathan_> just fire up the installer. You see it right away. By contrast any Ubuntu installer will have good looking fonts by default.
[17:41] <jonathan_> it is just a ...slight to the eyes to have to look at fonts that .... whatever the reason is. You can spend so much time on a system and then if that part is not covered, the whole thing really becomes rather pointless.
[17:43] <jonathan_> but if you want to know more :p. Their package system runs at least twice as slow as debian's and won't function at all without an internet connection (not even for checking info on packages).
[17:44] <jonathan_> of course they will all say that they just go grab a cup of coffee while it's loading :P. lol.
[17:46] <jonathan_> a sudo su session (or whatever, sudo bash) won't function with X by default. You're not really supposed to use sudo, only su.
[17:46] <k1l_> if you dont agree with the maintainers packaging or think there is a bug, file a bug. i bet the maintainer can in detail tell you if your requested version bumb is needed or not
[17:47] <k1l_> sudo and X dont mix well, anyway.
[17:47] <jonathan_> you still think my concern is with the distribution, that I want the distribution to be different. I do not.
[17:48] <jonathan_> that's like complaining to Microsoft that they don't ship Opera browser by default......
[17:49] <k1l_> well, your complaint was that there is no NM 1.0 in 14.04 or in the PPA system.
[17:49] <jonathan_> only the latter, not the former, I never said that about 14.04, that was about Squid.
[17:49] <jonathan_> and I didn't say it generally about the ppa system, I was just looking for the best or fastest or easiest way to install it on my own. ;-).
[17:51] <jonathan_> and really I'm doing this because I'm trying to or having to decide which Linux I'm going to go with this time :-/.
[17:52] <jonathan_> benefits for ubuntu are: good looking, easy and well maintained package system, but a hard time installing something out of the box, or rather outside of the box.
[17:52] <jonathan_> ubuntu: better model for sudo, generally feels less clumsy, and no hideous wallpapers and backgrounds like they have in suse
[17:53] <jonathan_> generally apt is much more user friendly than zypper/yast.
[17:53] <jonathan_> more pleasant to use.
[17:54] <jonathan_> I ran the opensuse 13.2 live dvd, in a virtual machine on this laptop, and then I ran Kubuntu 14.04.3 in the same, Kubuntu was just twice as fast for some reason.
[17:54] <jonathan_> opensuse has a nice rescue system (bare bones) that boots really fast
[17:57] <k1l_> well, its up to you to decide :)
[18:08] <jonathan_> commercial vendors usually ship their own .debs since Ubuntu is so popular, that's not the case for these open source packages such as NM but in this case there is no problem for me so I guess I'll just go ubuntu
[18:08] <jonathan_> like Steam also has its own .deb available that will just install everything else for ya
[18:08] <jonathan_> also for e.g. Opera browser, and Chrome.
[18:09] <jonathan_> so in practice because of this in Ubuntu there is usually not really an issue or problem with it.
[18:09] <jonathan_> and i compiled/compile squid myself anyway :p. :) :).
[18:10] <jonathan_> but that's the reason I'm in this channel now :p. Wily has later versions ;-p.
[18:10] <jonathan_> suse just has a massively useful mailinglist that's why I will just keep abusing that :p.
[18:10] <jonathan_> haha.
[18:11] <OerHeks> jonathan_, tell me what distro ships with chrom or opera, we are not allowed to do this.
[18:11] <jonathan_> none but there are remote debs available.
[18:11] <jonathan_> ie. opera offers its own .deb
[18:12] <jonathan_> so you get the "vendors do their own packaging" model. which works as far as i'm concerned.
[18:12] <OerHeks> As long as they provide a key to get a secure download, no problem.
[18:13] <jonathan_> i don't think it is really all that unpleasant at all to install a lone .deb file....
[18:13] <jonathan_> and it feels nice to keep your "own" software around.
[18:14] <jonathan_> i don't think anyone cares about that really, if I download from Opera or Steam I'm not concerned with being hacked or anything.
[18:15] <jonathan_> maybe for suse it is more of a concern because everyone and his lone monkey can offer a repo.
[18:15] <jonathan_> and you have to trust the key of the repo based on no information really.
[18:18] <jonathan_> there are definitely people with opensuse concerned about security for their (business) clients because this "third party repo" thing is so... prevalent.
[18:19] <jonathan_> i mean even if there is a secure chain system in place, that doesn't mean a single individual or anything can't offer something malicious that might be attractive or used, ...
[18:20] <jonathan_> lol, feels a bit like downloading cracks off the internet, through google I suppose/think, 90% chance it is malware :p.
[18:21] <jonathan_> "there are no cracks, the crack is a lie".
[18:22] <jonathan_> anyone know what the status is of aufs? the filesystem?
[18:23] <jonathan_> and do you know of thin-LVM is supported by wily?
[18:23] <jonathan_> i mean out of the box
[18:24] <jonathan_> ie. if thin-provisioning-tools is installed by default and if the hooks for update-initramfs are present/installed?.
[18:30] <jonathan_> i think i'm going to sell Ubuntu virtualbox images to Windows users :P.
[18:30] <jonathan_> lol!
[18:32] <jonathan_> provided i can get it to work faster than this....
[18:45] <jonathan_> oh thin-provisioning is even in universe, never mind...