| JanC | isn't any different from how CPU caches work | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| JanC | drive rotational speed is irrelevant | 00:01 |
| RoyK | as in how Dell Compellent does that - blocks 4MB big move around - if they are accessed frequently, they are moved up - you don't want to updated the block on the slower tier | 00:02 |
| RoyK | with caching, you always update the 'low tier' | 00:03 |
| JanC | so basically it's a caching system with lazy write-back ;) | 00:03 |
| RoyK | with tiering you move the data | 00:03 |
| JanC | and all the "tiering" is just marketing speak | 00:03 |
| RoyK | no | 00:03 |
| RoyK | you don't write back | 00:03 |
| RoyK | you move the blocks to another tier | 00:03 |
| IPU | i'm only know tiers from storage area... on which files are distributed on the different tiers based on her access count | 00:03 |
| RoyK | IPU: usually blocks, not files | 00:04 |
| RoyK | IPU: most storage systems have no idea of what a file is | 00:05 |
| JanC | it will "write-back" when some time-out is triggered, or space on the higher tier runs out | 00:05 |
| IPU | files that are often accessed are laying on the faster tiers and files seldom used on tape or something | 00:05 |
| JanC | which is exactly how caches work | 00:05 |
| RoyK | JanC: that's not a write-back, it's a tier change - different philosophy | 00:06 |
| JanC | RoyK: it's exactly how CPU caches work though ;) | 00:06 |
| IPU | RoyK: files, blocks... sorry it's some time ago since i had to learn it ^^ | 00:06 |
| RoyK | JanC: with caching, everything goes through the L1 and then L2 etc | 00:06 |
| JanC | no, it doesn't | 00:06 |
| IPU | RoyK: afair on those systems we looked at the tiering is managed from some software... not filesystem itself | 00:07 |
| JanC | at best you could argue that it is a parallel caching system | 00:07 |
| JanC | instead of a hierarchical one | 00:08 |
| RoyK | IPU: makes sense - very few storage systems knows what's on them - it's just 0101010111100010101 | 00:08 |
| RoyK | JanC: well, in caching, the cache isn't used for anything but caching, but in tiering, each tier holds actual data not in any other tier | 00:09 |
| pmatulis | dell buys emc, yikes | 00:09 |
| JanC | RoyK: eh, CPU & HDD cachs hold data that is not in the other level all the time | 00:10 |
| JanC | that's the point exactly | 00:10 |
| RoyK | JanC: not really, cache is used for caching, temporary storage, of data, not permanent storage as with tiering | 00:11 |
| RoyK | JanC: even though the semantics are similar | 00:12 |
| IPU | i miss the good 'ol dlt tapes somehow... | 00:12 |
| JanC | as I explained before, caching does not have to be volatile | 00:12 |
| RoyK | pmatulis: wtf? | 00:12 |
| RoyK | pmatulis: so that's why they were saying equallogic wasn't to be developed after 2017... | 00:13 |
| RoyK | seems "dell storage" is getting even more complicated | 00:13 |
| RoyK | pmatulis: got an url on that one? | 00:13 |
| * JanC wonders why it's so hard for people to look at the abstract mechanisms/algorithms behind buzzwords | 00:13 | |
| IPU | it never gets boring if you had to use them ^^ | 00:13 |
| RoyK | JanC: well, caching and tiering are still two different things, even though they relate | 00:15 |
| RoyK | damn - we'll be running Dell vmware | 00:16 |
| RoyK | as if the vmware support wasn't bad enough | 00:17 |
| JanC | RoyK: feel free to believe the marketing speak (and the patent speak, I guess), but essentially there is no difference between the two (unless your definition of caching is narrowly defined by marketing to begin with) | 00:23 |
| JanC | and if you know how to program a bit, think about how you would implement both | 00:24 |
| * pmatulis didn't know vmware was owned by emc, damn | 00:29 | |
| RoyK | JanC: not trying to start a fight here, but afaik tiering actually moves the data around instead of just caching what's most used | 00:29 |
| pmatulis | http://wp.me/p1FaB8-57Yt | 00:29 |
| IPU | http://storageswiss.com/2014/01/15/whats-the-difference-between-tiering-and-caching/ | 00:29 |
| IPU | JanC: is there really no difference? | 00:29 |
| RoyK | I read up about vmware vsan and it said it was using tiering - it doesn't - it just caches | 00:31 |
| JanC | the move vs. copy thing is a fallacy; eventually modified data will be written back when it's not "hot" anymore | 00:46 |
| JanC | which doesn't mean those solutions are bad; finding the right balance in a caching system is hard | 00:47 |
| jamespage | coreycb`, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/heat/+bug/1505444 | 00:48 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1505444 in heat (Ubuntu) "Package missing file" [Undecided,New] | 00:48 |
| jamespage | if you are still around :-) | 00:48 |
| JanC | or call it a caching/tiering system if you want | 00:49 |
| RoyK | JanC: it all depends on size | 00:49 |
| RoyK | JanC: if you have 10PiB of data, you can't just do caching | 00:49 |
| jamespage | coreycb`, also I think we're only on rc1 for heat - can we rev to rc2 pls | 00:49 |
| JanC | "just do caching" seems to refer to some some old interpretation of "caching" | 00:50 |
| coreycb` | jamespage, ok | 00:50 |
| RoyK | JanC: no, not really, you want hot data where it belongs and cold data where it belongs and not just copying whatever's hot upwards | 00:52 |
| JanC | s/old/limited/ | 00:52 |
| JanC | RoyK: which is exactly what caching is about? | 00:53 |
| RoyK | JanC: not really - you *move* the blocks upward, not merely copy them | 00:54 |
| RoyK | caching is copying | 00:54 |
| JanC | such a "move" is copy + delete | 00:54 |
| RoyK | obviously, yes | 00:54 |
| JanC | which is no different from copy + invalidate | 00:55 |
| RoyK | caching won't clear space for more cold data, it'll just fill up more hot data on the cold space and use even more iops for the writes | 00:56 |
| JanC | that's totally implementation-dependent | 00:56 |
| RoyK | well, so far, all I've seen of caching systems (SSD cache whatever) only caches (copies) and keeps the original in sync | 00:57 |
| JanC | e.g. CPU cache levels do actually interact in such ways (in some CPUs at least) | 00:57 |
| RoyK | then why do people call deduplication something new? it's just compression, right, on the macro-scal? | 00:58 |
| RoyK | scale | 00:58 |
| RoyK | anyway - tested vmware VSAN with some old boxes, I thought it'd show total space = spinning rust + ssd, but only spinning rust was calculated as space, so that obviously only does old-time caching | 01:00 |
| === markthomas is now known as markthomas|away | ||
| patdk-lap | I tend not to like auto-level systems | 02:07 |
| patdk-lap | I have a very cold dataset, it is only used once a month | 02:07 |
| patdk-lap | but when we use it, it has to be as fast as possible, cause we burn through it | 02:08 |
| === ming is now known as Guest52262 | ||
| phunyguy | So, anyone in here have a ton of experience with iSCSI (client side) on Ubuntu? | 05:07 |
| lordievader | Good morning | 07:03 |
| === frediz_ is now known as frediz | ||
| rbasak | Anyone else unable to reach https://bz.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=57328 ? | 07:57 |
| ubottu | bz.apache.org bug 57328 in Core "Invalid memory access on ap_server_config_defines" [Critical,Resolved: fixed] | 07:57 |
| lordievader | rbasak: Page works just fine here. | 07:59 |
| rbasak | lordievader: thanks. That helped me pin it down. It's not responding on IPv6 but is on IPv4. | 08:00 |
| lordievader | Hmm, I should be connecting over ipv6. Though chrome might switch over quickly. | 08:01 |
| lordievader | Ah yes, forcing wget to connect over ipv6 hangs... | 08:02 |
| rbasak | I'll email them. Thank you for confirming. | 08:04 |
| T3DDY | Does anyone use any online drive software? | 08:41 |
| lordievader | T3DDY: What do you mean with 'online drive software'? | 08:44 |
| T3DDY | lordievader: Like a website that you can upload files tooooooo? | 08:44 |
| lordievader | Ah, no I don't. Got my own server to host my files. | 08:45 |
| === frediz_ is now known as frediz | ||
| T3DDY | Something like owncloud that you can host yourself so you can upload to it when youre out, instead of using FTP and things | 08:46 |
| === cipi is now known as CiPi | ||
| === CiPi is now known as cipi | ||
| === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
| === balloons is now known as Guest77290 | ||
| jge | hey guys, so I recently set up rsnapshot with retention of 7 days, 4 weeks and 12 months. However, when I go into weeks I only see a single set but I'm expecting to see 7 days for that given week no? | 14:20 |
| jge | or is it once a week, once a month? which would be pointless..could someone confirm pls | 14:22 |
| hallyn | dannf: all tests pass with the merged kernel, i'll merge in your dif fnow and push to that same ppa. so when ~ppa2 appears it should be ready for you | 14:43 |
| dannf | hallyn: X-cellent | 15:00 |
| === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away | ||
| === Guest48 is now known as tthoren | ||
| coreycb` | jamespage, does a Conflicts sound ok for neutron-lbaas-agent and neutron-lbaasv2-agent? | 15:42 |
| coreycb` | in d/control for the binaries, that is | 15:43 |
| === markthomas|away is now known as markthomas | ||
| === g4mby is now known as PaulW2U | ||
| teward | can a server team dev provide me a second opinion glance at a patch please, before I consider it for inclusion? | 17:08 |
| teward | (in nginx) | 17:08 |
| teward | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/1505734 has a patch attached that would 'resolve' the issue, but i would like it reviewed prior to me doing anything (whether upload because I can for nginx, or meh). It's a change to an init script so i would like second reviews other than me. | 17:11 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1413555 in nginx (Ubuntu Trusty) "duplicate for #1505734 init script fails with error code 0 when configuration test doesn't pass" [Low,Confirmed] | 17:11 |
| teward | yes it's a duplicate. | 17:11 |
| === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
| samba35 | how to i check all services started since bootup | 17:53 |
| jamespage | coreycb`, do they actually conflict? I don't know the answer to that - can we run v1 and v2 on the same units? | 17:57 |
| coreycb` | jamespage, there was a conflict with neutron-lbaas-agent-netns-cleanup but that could probably be worked around a different way | 18:05 |
| hallyn | dannf: package built and qa-regression-tests passed. | 18:08 |
| === cipi is now known as CiPi | ||
| dannf | hallyn: great, i'll go ahead and pull it into our customer ppa | 18:15 |
| === lborda is now known as lborda-sprint | ||
| === coreycb` is now known as coreycb | ||
| jak2000 | hi all | 20:09 |
| jak2000 | i want check the filesystem how to? | 20:09 |
| jak2000 | fchsk? | 20:09 |
| bekks | Depends on the filesystem. | 20:10 |
| genii | Generally if you just run fsck on it, the proper filesystem type will be chosen automatically | 20:12 |
| jak2000 | bekks!!!! | 20:17 |
| jak2000 | genii thanks | 20:17 |
| jak2000 | when iturn off the PC without logout or shutdown command or halt command, | 20:18 |
| jak2000 | when starts run fsck right? | 20:18 |
| bekks | Why do you turn off your PC without a proper shutdown? :) | 20:19 |
| bekks | And there may be situations when the startup does not invoke a fsck automatically. | 20:19 |
| genii | jak2000: There's a few better ways to do it. From a livecd, or from recovery option in Grub, or sudo touch /forcefsck | 20:30 |
| === JanC_ is now known as JanC | ||
| faddat | Hi everyone, I want to set up ubuntu openstack | 22:40 |
| faddat | ...and I'm missing "dual NICs and dual HDDs" | 22:40 |
| faddat | but have 10 boxes..... is this a doable thing? | 22:40 |
| faddat | What do I lose? | 22:40 |
| sarnold | those probably aren't strict requirements but it may make it harder to use the automated tools to help deploy the whole thing | 22:42 |
| faddat | hm. This is my first install. Sarnold, have you done this before? How intense is it? | 22:44 |
| faddat | eg-- I probably need the automated tools even though I've done several clusters (k8s, rancher, kontina, flynn, deis, etc etc etc...) | 22:44 |
| sarnold | faddat: I've done bits and pieces of it, never deployed a full thing myself. | 22:45 |
| faddat | well, some is better than none: How rough is it? | 22:46 |
| sarnold | faddat: openstack is fairly complex, there's a thousand different supported configurations and everything is far too configurable for my taste | 22:46 |
| sarnold | but the end result is nice enough to use as a user so it might be worth sticking it out and making it work | 22:46 |
| faddat | does ubuntu's "distro" result in an "opinionated" system of openstack? | 22:47 |
| faddat | (I also hate insane levels of configurability) | 22:47 |
| sarnold | I think the automated "autopilot" thing probably does help a lot | 22:47 |
| faddat | oh another question.... | 22:56 |
| faddat | anyone know how to build a cluster of LXD servers? | 22:56 |
| faddat | I know how to build one of them | 22:56 |
| faddat | don't know how to construct the cluster though | 22:56 |
| sarnold | as I understand it, you more or less have independant relationships with each of the servers | 22:57 |
| sarnold | when you want to start something up, you ask a specific lxd server to start whatever it is you want | 22:57 |
| faddat | how would you then ask that server to migrate an instance to another? | 22:57 |
| sarnold | you can move containers between them as you wish, but I don't think there's anything to bind them together as a cluster | 22:57 |
| teward | sarnold: ping, got a security related question | 22:58 |
| faddat | pity. That seems like it would scale quite poorly.... | 22:58 |
| sarnold | hey teward :) | 22:58 |
| teward | sarnold: incoming PM | 22:58 |
| sarnold | faddat: it'd be like "lxc move host1:container1 host2:" | 22:58 |
| faddat | hm | 22:58 |
| teward | sarnold: then i have an unrelated question, if you've got a few seconds for patch review/opiniongiving :) | 22:59 |
| sarnold | teward: if it's the nginx init script thing, I gave that a quick look and realized I don't know how the initscripts are supposed to work :) sorry | 23:01 |
| teward | lol | 23:01 |
| teward | meh, tis fine i'll poke Debian and yell at em | 23:01 |
| teward | i need them to make a decision on the nginx packaging ANYWAYS | 23:01 |
| teward | since they've not done 1.9.5 packaging | 23:01 |
| sarnold | hehe | 23:02 |
| sarnold | wait, no? I saw it in sources.debian.net earlier.. | 23:02 |
| sarnold | oh that was 1.9.4 http://sources.debian.net/src/nginx/1.9.4-1/ | 23:02 |
| sarnold | faddat: there's a nova-lxd something or other module underway as well; that might be the "scales" option, beyond managing the lxd hosts individually | 23:03 |
| faddat | yeah, totally | 23:04 |
| faddat | in fact | 23:04 |
| faddat | I'm investigating openstack right now | 23:04 |
| sarnold | faddat: but of course that drags along the rest of openstack. I like how simple lxd's interface is, and not having different "tenants" with different security properties looks like a big part of that simplicity. | 23:04 |
| faddat | right? | 23:04 |
| faddat | A coreos-style cluster of LXD servers (or even... rancher-on-ubuntu-style) would be incredible | 23:05 |
| sarnold | yeah. there's places where it makes sense, but for my home use, openstack is a bit overkill. lxd looks like a better fit. hehe :) | 23:05 |
| teward | sarnold: 1.9.4 | 23:05 |
| teward | not 1.9.5 | 23:05 |
| teward | and it's been out for over a month | 23:05 |
| teward | PPAs delayed for the same reasons | 23:05 |
| teward | (and others) | 23:05 |
| faddat | what we're building, it will need to scale, but even with that stated, I can't really say that openstack would surely be worth it | 23:06 |
| faddat | seems a ton of overhead, and a great number of machines dedicated to coordinating as opposed to doing the gruntwork | 23:06 |
| sarnold | my favorite is the guide on HA openstack that starts with "you'll need 28 computers..." | 23:07 |
| teward | lol | 23:07 |
| faddat | see that'd be okay in fact-- but then it gets into "and they'll need 4 NICs each (well 3 of them will, and then another 3.5 will need 3 HDDs of the weasel variety....) | 23:08 |
| sarnold | yeah, sometimes folks are trying to build their clouds with NUCs and sometimes with multi-socket xeon monsters with 100gb networking and ... | 23:09 |
| faddat | yes, exactly | 23:10 |
| faddat | I just did an inventory of what I have available | 23:10 |
| faddat | and if I bring in 6 machines from another site, I may have enough to get this rolling. My ideal, I think is a generic installation of openstack, though that would mean missing out on all of the Ubuntu goodness... | 23:11 |
| === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away | ||
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