[09:28] slickymasterWork: I'm happy enough to push it when it's done :) [09:28] flocculant, you can't push to the main branch, but you can totally do a MP [09:28] ok, I'll review it then [09:28] that's obviously what I mean knome ;) [09:28] or me, whoever has the time first [09:28] flocculant, ;) [09:29] there won't be many without changes [09:29] all the additions though don't come close to the cleaning up of #10 :D [09:30] lol [09:31] slickymasterWork, there was little chance you noticed, but i updated http://xubuntu.org/contribute/documentation/ yesterday [09:31] useful addition ... [09:31] ;) [09:31] slickymasterWork, if you want to look at the changes done, you can see them by comparing the revisions on the admin side [09:32] I hadn't knome, last night I went straight to bed [09:32] thanks for the heads up [09:32] yeah, one of the additions was to mention where the docbook files are in the branch [09:32] * slickymasterWork checks [09:32] np [09:32] it's not a huge change [09:32] only in the bulleted list under documentation and the following two paragraphs [09:33] knome: it is a huge change - just not a long one :p [09:34] flocculant, hah [09:34] guess we could on talking about how to build stuff etc [09:34] but meh. [09:34] i'd want the xubuntu-specific wiki [09:34] where we could dump all the developer documentation [09:35] well yes [09:35] same for QA too - but atm we have what we have [09:35] with explanations ad nauseam [09:35] yep [09:35] in the meantime slickymasterWork has one suggestion from me for the doc page [09:38] btw knome, I writing (better, I'll write) a tutorial on how to build the -docs locally for the FAQ section [09:38] s/I writing/I'm writing [09:38] with the packages one needs [09:39] slickymasterWork, sorry to spoil your fun, but likely not FAQ material [09:39] as an article for the website, sure [09:39] you think? [09:39] flocculant, sudo apt-get build-dep package [09:39] that will be buried in the web, after a while [09:39] slickymasterWork, yeah, FAQ's are totally oriented at end-user questions [09:39] even that [09:40] slickymasterWork, now that we sort out the releases under the "release" taxonomy, we have much more flexibility with the categories/tags [09:40] but try and think about people who don't know - we ask people to get involved then assume they know what *we* know [09:40] slickymasterWork, we could create a new category for tutorials to getting involved [09:41] flocculant, i'm not saying we shouldn't do the article - we totally should [09:41] just that the FAQ category isn't the place for it [09:41] my point is just to try and keep such an article sort of afloat (if you know what I mean) [09:41] knome: that might be useful - much of the new QA page could be a tutorial type thing - especially now :D [09:41] maybe we should write some guidelines with pleia2 about the marketing/communication :P [09:41] flocculant, yep, i can see that :) [09:41] :) [09:41] slickymasterWork, totally; and we do have ways to achieve that [09:42] right [09:43] just let's not mix up the end-user faced documentation and developer documentation [09:43] that will mean nobody is willing to dig in the FAQ because they don't know what to expect [09:43] s/developer/technical [09:43] flocculant, mm [09:44] i should get some updates for the website landed, then i could take yet another step for a better website [09:44] sigh [09:44] :) [09:44] if you make it developer then QA will stay where it is :) [09:44] flocculant, mm, "contributor" would be better word anyway [09:44] on the contrary knome, my idea is that users will dig into the FAQs in expectation of finding what they're looking for [09:45] slickymasterWork, all of the FAQ articles currently are end-user stuff [09:45] and whenever we link there, we mention that [09:45] http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq/ [09:45] ^ [09:45] say, in that page [09:46] if there was a category named "Contributing to Xubuntu" or sth in the sidebar [09:46] would you be at loss because the FAQ list didn't include articles about contributing to xubuntu? [09:46] I do get your point knome, and agree with it [09:47] also, currently we don't link to the faq category from the front page [09:47] but with the new updates i've prepared, we could do that more easily too [09:47] faq is at least at the foot [09:47] I don't argue with it, my questions is just related to visibility [09:48] flocculant, can get the contribution stuff there as well [09:48] flocculant, no problem, just add it to the menu [09:48] (and it IS under "help & support", eg. not something i'd look for if i was looking to contribute) [09:49] this new contribute section is probably a winner [09:49] mhm [09:49] http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/ [09:49] that's how i've planned the menu [09:49] in the future [09:49] anyway [09:49] bbl [09:50] cya [09:50] hf knome [10:24] flocculant: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/wily-changes/2015-October/012076.html [10:28] also, I think I have a meeting starting in 2 minutes here, don't I [10:30] !team | meeting time if anybody is around [10:30] meeting time if anybody is around: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193 [10:31] * bluesabre tries to wake up, makes quick breakfast [10:31] me too [10:32] #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting [10:32] Meeting started Fri Oct 16 10:32:40 2015 UTC. The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [10:32] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [10:33] I'll wait a bit for people to show up [10:33] It was an accident I even managed to wake up before the meeting today (shame on me) [10:36] jjfrv8: are you the only other one besides me? [10:36] may be a very short meeting :) [10:36] I'm here too. :P [10:37] hi krytarik [10:37] Hi bluesabre. [10:37] Let's get started then :) [10:37] #topic Open Action Items [10:38] - knome to send a mail to the mailing list about phasing out "Team updates" in the meetings [10:39] I'm... not sure if that went out [10:40] anybody else better at searching their inboxes? [10:41] bluesabre: You mean for voting? Nope. [10:41] Thought so. [10:41] hi [10:41] hi flocculant [10:41] Hi flocculant. [10:41] o/ [10:42] #action knome to send a mail to the mailing list about phasing out "Team updates" in the meetings [10:42] ACTION: knome to send a mail to the mailing list about phasing out "Team updates" in the meetings [10:42] hi slickymasterWork [10:42] the party is getting started now [10:42] moving on [10:42] #topic Team Updates [10:42] :D [10:42] * flocculant has to try and remember the show tonight ... [10:43] #info QA - call for RC testing went out yesterday [10:43] done ... [10:43] #info Final Freeze is now in effect [10:44] #info parole 0.8.1 accepted for wily [10:44] (woohoo!) [10:44] :) [10:44] #info Our libreoffice-elementary-theme is now upstream in LibreOffice [10:45] (in trunk) [10:45] Will probably take some conversations with the LO packaging theme to get it building with X [10:46] not sure I have anything else from dev/artwork [10:46] * team [10:46] :P [10:46] anybody else want to add any updates they can think of? [10:47] bluesabre: just fyi - upgraded parole from -proposed - all works :D [10:47] flocculant: oh goodie [10:47] that was a very last minute release/upload... counting on you ;) [10:48] #info the numbers on the tracker look excellent, good work everyone http://tracker.xubuntu.org/ [10:48] and with nothing else, we can move on... [10:49] #topic Discussion [10:50] here we have: Last minute Wily issues for discussion, Core ISO/ CD:DVD, 15.10 RC and testing, 16.04 Milestones, 16.04 Package testing, Bug tagging [10:50] #subtopics even :p [10:50] yeah [10:50] :D [10:50] :) [10:50] #subtopic Last minute Wily issues for discussion [10:51] the only things I've got for this will come up shortly [10:52] flocculant has our current known issues at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/flocculant/sandbox [10:52] but in general everything seems to be looking good from my perspective other than the vm issues that everyone sees [10:52] yeah [10:52] and the gmb issue I never managed to resolve... [10:53] right - good reason to ditch it for xx and forget all about it :D [10:53] :D [10:53] But yeah, I think we're in good shape for release... let's see what updates land during the final freeze that might change our minds [10:53] I guess we could add the v cycle spec for media players for x cycle [10:54] oh wrong - for w cycle :) [10:54] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer [10:54] :) [10:54] so if nobody has any issues to discuss, we can start the next subtopic [10:55] wfm === qwebirc512034 is now known as slickymasterWork [10:55] #subtopic Core ISO/ CD:DVD [10:55] hopefully Unit193 will be about for the next meeting to add to this [10:55] yes [10:56] There is nothing more to add though. [10:56] I think things are in place now... and we want to get these isos spinning when X starts [10:56] krytarik: there is [10:56] even if it's just getting where we are written - people do read the minutes and without us telling people things - they've no idea [10:57] bluesabre: yep and as early in the cycle as possible - we as a team need to be more on top of where that is during the cycle I guess [10:58] maybe this will be in Team updates for next meeting :) [10:58] :) [10:58] next up... [10:58] #subtopic 15.10 RC and testing [10:59] now who wrote that there... hmmm [10:59] ok - so obviously - as many people as can do so - test please - images and upgrades too :) [10:59] #info that [10:59] the dev list got their ping - as soon as images are available I will update [11:00] #info Please test RC images and upgrades in good time [11:00] :) [11:00] action flocculant once tracker is up to date to mail user list re RC [11:00] #action flocculant once tracker is up to date to mail user list re RC [11:00] ACTION: flocculant once tracker is up to date to mail user list re RC [11:01] nice [11:01] anything else? [11:01] mail from infinity today gives more detail on when "We will shut down cronjobs and spin some RC images late Friday or early [11:01] Saturday once the archive and proposed-migration have settled a bit ..." [11:01] oh nice [11:02] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2015-October/003403.html [11:02] uploads are still going strong [11:02] nothing else :) [11:02] #subtopic 16.04 Milestones [11:02] oh lord - me again :p [11:02] * bluesabre is happy flocculant is around [11:03] I'd like us to decide which we participate as early as possible [11:03] I agree [11:03] personally I would like to see us start with the second Alpha for 16.04 [11:04] I'd agree with that, Alpha 1 is almost always too early, landing before all the breaking changes [11:04] yep [11:04] * slickymasterWork agrees with both bluesabre and flocculant [11:04] I do have one more point re milestones - but will wait for others to speak up [11:05] From a development perspective, we're targeting bug fixes to make 16.04 super stable. Don't expect a lot of new features, so testing done at all parts of the cycle will be incredibly relevant [11:05] make that an #info :p [11:05] #info From a development perspective, we're targeting bug fixes to make 16.04 super stable. Don't expect a lot of new features, so testing done at all parts of the cycle will be incredibly relevant [11:05] :) [11:05] and I'll have a similar message with the next sub [11:06] krytarik: any input on that? [11:06] flocculant: Sure, I agree. [11:06] Alpha 1, that is. [11:06] Woop, nope 2. [11:06] :D [11:06] :) [11:07] then we can move on to the next subtopic, yes? [11:07] ok - second point then - there is talk (not sure if it'll get further) of allowing flavours to stop builds [11:07] ah [11:07] that could be nice [11:07] so if that does happen - we can revisit milestones - and do our own when it suits us [11:08] hm [11:08] good to know [11:08] we can move on now - just wanted to bring that up :) [11:08] thanks [11:08] #subtopic 16.04 Package Testing [11:09] this will be coming back [11:09] and dully needed [11:09] bluesabre and I will be setting this up for 16.04 - but it will be a bit more specific than it has in the past [11:09] yup [11:10] #info Package Testing coming back for 16.04 [11:10] there's a fair bit of work to do for that, but it's been started already [11:11] bluesabre: nothing more from me on that - yet :) [11:11] :D [11:11] so your perspective please - mostly for those attending tonight :) [11:12] #info Usability bug reports are fair game. These changes really make Xfce and Xubuntu easier to use for lots of people. If things don't seem quite right with an application, let us know. [11:12] * bluesabre will regret that [11:12] :p [11:13] and ppa's people - use those :) [11:13] #info Since we're targeting bug fixes and not so much new features with the next cycle, we can likely expect rapid reviews and fixes. More on this in future discussions. [11:13] ok, I'm done [11:13] thanks [11:14] #subtopic Bug Tagging [11:14] and this is easy :) [11:14] duck duck goose-exp [11:15] #info please remember to mark bugs with xubuntu-exp and the version, if using a ppa xubuntu-exp version ppa [11:15] done :) [11:15] nice [11:15] that covers everything [11:15] \o/ [11:15] #topic Schedule Next Meeting [11:15] https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20151016T20&p1=%3A&ah=1&am=30 [11:15] done :D [11:16] #info Please join us at later today at 20:00 UTC for Meeting #2 [11:16] I'll get the meeting page updated so that those joining later can check that out first [11:16] #info https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20151016T20&p1=%3A&ah=1&am=30 [11:16] cool, thanks [11:16] #endmeeting [11:16] Meeting ended Fri Oct 16 11:16:49 2015 UTC. [11:16] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-10-16-10.32.moin.txt [11:16] Thanks everyone! [11:17] thanks bluesabre [11:17] bluesabre: thanks - you can pretend to go back to bed now :) [11:17] s/back to bed/to work [11:17] :D [11:17] bbl folks, hf! [11:21] ok - logs are up now [12:48] slickymasterWork knome - pushed my docs mp now [12:54] what's that other one then ... [13:00] :D [13:01] that's like ages old :) [13:01] knome: fyi - just added ppa-purge to the qa page [13:01] mhm [13:02] again, bbl [13:02] :) [13:20] ok flocculant. [13:20] I'll deal with it tonight or during the weekend [13:21] really no rush :) [13:21] 16.04 is week away :p [13:22] lol === qwebirc719331 is now known as slickymasterWork [17:46] knome: why do the docs not have nav controls at the top? [17:51] flocculant, they aren't there by default [17:51] ok [17:51] but as slickymaster what he thinks of that [17:52] pain with them only at the bottom - in my opinon anyway :) [17:52] we can likely make that happen if he thinks it's sensible [17:52] but then I did have to go through them all rather than what I guess people would actually do [17:52] yeah [17:52] true too [17:53] I think I could probably dissuade myself here lol [17:53] :D [17:53] anyway - was just a question and thought :) [17:53] yep, np [17:53] ty [17:53] i never thought they'd be something people would use that much [17:54] as you implied (i think), people will just go to whatever they need help with [17:54] and if they are going to read it all, having the controls at the bottom is enough [17:54] yep - that was the implication [18:02] bbl again... [19:43] !team | meeting in 15 minutes ish ... if you're going to be around logs from the earlier meeting got on the meeting page [19:43] meeting in 15 minutes ish ... if you're going to be around logs from the earlier meeting got on the meeting page: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193 [20:00] !team | meeting is upon us [20:00] meeting is upon us: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193 [20:00] #startmeeting [20:00] Meeting started Fri Oct 16 20:00:18 2015 UTC. The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [20:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [20:00] and who other than me is about :) [20:00] * krytarik is [20:01] O/ [20:01] hey Noskcaj :) [20:02] hullo [20:02] well hopefully this should be fairly swift [20:03] let's just get on [20:03] #topic Open Action Items [20:03] my item is done [20:03] we just need to vote on it now [20:03] excellent [20:04] knome: shall we just take that to m/l or start here? [20:04] I'm easy either way [20:04] let's do it on the M/L [20:04] i'll do that today [20:04] ok :) [20:05] #action knome to set up voting on meeting structure [20:05] ACTION: knome to set up voting on meeting structure [20:05] ta :) [20:05] # Topic Team Updates [20:05] I do have an extra from earlier [20:05] flocculant, that isn't picked up btw [20:05] what isn't? [20:05] flocculant, you need to stick topic to # [20:06] #Topic Team Updates [20:06] (afaik) [20:06] #info started the 16.04 doc read through and MP done [20:06] anything from others? [20:07] I be it should be t instead of T too :p [20:08] anything from Noskcaj or knome ? [20:08] everything from me is in the tracker [20:09] but no, nothing really for now [20:09] Noskcaj: anything - I know you've just got back ofc [20:09] #topic Discussion [20:10] #subtopic Last minute Wily issues for discussion [20:10] from the last meeting all that came up was [20:10] 1 - gmb issue still a problem [20:11] 2 - getting the default media player back into discussion [20:11] anyone with comments on those? [20:12] bah - 2 - getting the default media player choice back into discussion [20:12] at least it "only" crashes on close [20:12] but 2, totally, for 16.04 [20:12] yea [20:12] too late for any changes now [20:12] ok so we just need to X the W and run with that [20:13] #action flocculant to build Specifications/X/DefaultMediaPlayer [20:13] ACTION: flocculant to build Specifications/X/DefaultMediaPlayer [20:13] I'll do that once we're finished [20:13] :) [20:13] fwiw, my action item is done [20:13] really hard ... [20:13] knome: ok :) [20:14] mmm [20:14] fleeting thought then [20:15] oh yea - not really Wily, but currently our wiki bar had vivid roadmap etc on it - are we going to keep on with that? [20:15] eg XX soon? [20:15] i don't think so [20:15] i'll fix that now [20:15] ok - thanks knome :) [20:15] #subtopic Core ISO/ CD:DVD [20:16] so we were hoping that Unit193 would be about [20:16] * krytarik too [20:16] krytarik said in earlier meeting that nothing had changed [20:17] at the moment the bp has the latest task with no owner, so it doesn't show up, I'd say that for the moment we should just postpone that and give it an owner [20:17] Not after we pinged them again last Friday anyway. [20:17] then get it on the X bp [20:17] ok, wiki menu updated [20:18] I'd suggest that we add that to the whiteboard on -dev too [20:18] bluesabre and I both want to see this in asap for X [20:19] me too [20:19] knome: ooh - that looks good ;) [20:19] shouldn't be alphabetical though - or Z to A :D [20:20] thanks :) [20:20] #subtopic 15.10 RC and testing [20:20] self explanatory - please test this :) [20:21] I'll not redo (or copy) my info's from a few hours ago [20:22] knome Noskcaj any comments on the RC? [20:22] i haven't had time to test it, but by all other signs, we're looking pretty good [20:22] or in other words [20:22] phenomenal work again, everybody! [20:22] yep - it is looking all pretty much good [20:22] yep [20:23] I really do think that release by release we look more and more polished [20:23] totally [20:23] really is phenomenal work by those who do it :) [20:23] let's keep on the same direction for 16.04 and it will be an awesome release with a relatively recent, stable xfce version - something to look in awe for years [20:23] yep for sure [20:24] anyway - before we all slap each other on the back so hard we're all unconscious - let's move on [20:25] #subtopic 16.04 Milestones [20:25] the consensus in the earlier meeting was to A2 in that cycle [20:25] any objections to that? [20:25] that sounds sane if it looks like we aren't in a total mess at that point [20:26] but since it's an LTS cycle, that's unlikely [20:26] even so [20:26] so +1 for that from me [20:26] thanks [20:26] I should info bluesabre's info here :) [20:26] #info From a development perspective, we're targeting bug fixes to make 16.04 super stable. Don't expect a lot of new features, so testing done at all parts of the cycle will be incredibly relevant [20:27] Noskcaj: you up for that ;) [20:28] as part of the dev team rather than testing [20:29] #subtopic 16.04 Package Testing [20:29] so - the long and short of this is - we will be bringing it back for the next cycle [20:29] more specifically aimed at times [20:30] one more important info from earlier [20:30] #info Usability bug reports are fair game. These changes really make Xfce and Xubuntu easier to use for lots of people. If things don't seem quite right with an application, let us know [20:30] if we change the default media player, that should happen ASAP [20:30] usability and accessibility [20:30]