[03:32] <Ben64> so does 15.10 do kernel updates without restarting yet
[05:54] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:03] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-convergence-teaser-running-gimp-on-a-nexus-7-tablet-495119.shtml
[07:53] <lotuspsychje> i like new layout & strategy http://www.ubuntu.com/
[08:17] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:54] <cupofjoecoder2> #msg alis ruby
[08:55] <cupofjoecoder2> #msg alis list ruby
[11:45] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[11:45] <cfhowlett> hey^3 lotuspsychje
[11:45] <lotuspsychje> hey cfhowlett :p
[11:45] <lotuspsychje> all ok?
[11:46] <cfhowlett> no complaints, mate.  just sittin here, sippin tea and waitin for XX
[11:46] <cfhowlett> OMG do you have any idea how many ubuntu + XX complaints we're going to get
[11:46] <lotuspsychje> lol
[11:47] <lotuspsychje> im real curious about it aswell
[11:47] <cfhowlett> I can hear the screeching now "Ubuntu = porn!!"
[11:47] <lotuspsychje> lolz
[11:49] <lotuspsychje> i like the new layout and strategy page: http://www.ubuntu.com/
[11:49] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu on all platforms
[11:49] <lotuspsychje> just like i have in mind for my shop
[12:03] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: good afternoon
[12:03] <OerHeks> Hi lotus
[12:14] <lotuspsychje> afternoon travnewmatic and Daekdroom
[12:25] <EriC^^> afternoon lotuspsychje
[12:25] <lotuspsychje> heya EriC^^ :p
[12:25] <EriC^^> :D
[12:26] <lotuspsychje> the wily rush is pretty stable
[12:26] <lotuspsychje> for now..
[12:27] <EriC^^> yeah
[12:29] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i like the ubuntu on all of your things icons: http://www.ubuntu.com/
[12:29] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: a bit same idea for my shop
[12:30] <EriC^^> yeah pretty cool
[12:35]  * lotuspsychje throws a xenial xerus into johnny_linux's neck
[12:36]  * johnny_linux eats it and asks 4 more
[12:36] <lotuspsychje> lol
[12:36] <OerHeks> y, lotuspsychje, y?

[12:37] <johnny_linux> the toothless terminator ?
[12:38] <johnny_linux> poor arnie
[12:38] <lotuspsychje> lol
[13:11] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: kwerfguuto is Italian I think; and English isn't their best language
[13:11] <lotuspsychje> :p
[13:14] <lotuspsychje> better feed him to the dogs :p
[13:15] <lotuspsychje> the huskies are hungry
[13:16] <lotuspsychje> bbl city walk
[15:47] <daftykins> did anyone ever try that guys claim the other day, a while back, that "cp file.iso /dev/sdX" works in place of dd?
[15:49] <OerHeks> only if you sync after that ?
[15:49] <OerHeks> http://superuser.com/questions/620877/cp-command-to-make-bootable-iso-image-usb
[15:50] <daftykins> hmm i might test this
[16:09] <TJ-> Sure that will work, it's the same basic process
[16:10] <daftykins> someone should write a 'dd' clone that shows progress as it runs :)
[16:10] <TJ-> ddrescue?
[16:10] <daftykins> does it? i figured that was more tailored toward data recovery
[16:11] <OerHeks> with pv it shows
[16:11] <OerHeks> dd if=/dev/urandom | pv | dd of=/dev/null
[16:11] <OerHeks> Output
[16:11] <OerHeks> 1,74MB 0:00:09 [ 198kB/s] [      <=>                               ]
[16:12] <daftykins> o rly
[16:12] <OerHeks> install pv first
[16:12] <daftykins> hmm not so much something to instruct a new user through, then
[16:13] <OerHeks> else ddrescue like TJ says, it has those scripts in it
[16:13] <daftykins> !info ddrescue trusty
[16:14] <TJ-> yeah, or you can do something like "dd xxxx & watch -n 10 kill -USR1 $(pgrep dd)"
[16:14] <daftykins> mm, all pretty messy
[16:14] <TJ-> !info gddrescue (GNU....)
[16:14] <TJ-> !info gddrescue
[16:16] <OerHeks> !info pv
[16:16] <daftykins> i think i'm out of my depth on this Nectar guy's query, i don't see why setting the displays with the 'monitor' settings program wouldn't remain after restart - unless a config file in ~/.gonf/ or wherever it lives perhaps is not user writable?
[16:22] <EriC^^> daftykins: that makes sense
[16:22] <EriC^^> find ~ ! -user $USER
[16:23] <daftykins> ooh :>
[16:23] <daftykins> although TJ- is the multi display professional now on the case ;)
[16:26] <TJ-> Do any of you have Gnome/Unity running desktop? I use KDE and can't search the existing config files to identify where the config is stored
[16:27] <TJ-> if you do "grep -rn '1920' .config .gconf" should help - assuming your monitor resolution has 1920x<something>. Change 1920 to a resolution used by your monitor
[16:27] <daftykins> i could boot a VM
[16:28] <daftykins> sec :)
[16:29] <daftykins> .config/monitors.xml
[16:29] <daftykins> "Binary file .config/dconf/user matches"
[16:32] <TJ-> daftykins: can you pastebin monitors.xml ?
[16:32] <daftykins> sure
[16:34] <daftykins> ugh no pastebinit and i'd already kicked off an update, oh the pain of it all
[16:34] <daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12904083/
[16:34] <TJ-> thanks
[16:34] <daftykins> any time :)
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[18:41] <daftykins> hallo thar o/
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> hi xerus
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: http://news.softpedia.com/news/kubuntu-release-manager-steps-down-says-canonical-defrauded-donors-495173.shtml
[18:45] <EriC^^> evening lotuspsychje
[18:45] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ :p
[18:54] <lotuspsychje> DosTuMai: good evening
[18:56] <DosTuMai> EvEning. o/
[18:56] <daftykins> Friday night is here already
[18:56] <daftykins> my my my
[18:57] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:58] <OerHeks> Kubuntu amd64 ratio 4,2 Ubuntu amd64 ratio 3,8
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> nice1 OerHeks !
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> good seeding
[18:58] <OerHeks> kubuntu wins
[18:58] <Bashing-om> Looks like the weekend mayhem has begun .
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:00] <daftykins> :)
[19:00] <daftykins> i dunno, we haven't had any other distro users yet today i don't think? :)
[19:00] <lotuspsychje> not me
[19:01]  * daftykins facepalms
[19:01] <daftykins> now we have a mac question asker
[19:01] <daftykins> ¬_¬
[19:01] <lotuspsychje> looool
[19:01] <OerHeks> one asks too early, grinn
[19:02] <daftykins> ;_;
[19:02] <DosTuMai> ['_o|', '\\o_', 'o/', '_o/', '_o-', '\\o-']
[19:03] <daftykins> ASCII yoga
[19:03] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> <°))))))-<
[19:05] <daftykins> such is the desire for Apple gear these days, these folk falls over themselves in crazy attempts to get using it
[19:05] <daftykins> *fall
[19:07] <lotuspsychje> oO
[19:07] <lotuspsychje> someones mad
[19:09] <OerHeks> some spend $1500 on a bycicle, others on displayport
[19:09] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:10] <OerHeks> Yes, have you ever met Alan? (popey)
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> no, why?
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> ive read many articles on him though
[19:11] <OerHeks> he is a huge guy man, 2 meter or so. i sure make no troubles with him :-D
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> linux magazine and such
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> the higher you are, the harder you can fall to the floor
[19:14] <daftykins> XD
[19:15] <daftykins> i wonder what his quit was about
[19:16] <lotuspsychje> maybe a fight with some unfriendly co-op that randomly bans friendly volunteers
[19:16] <lotuspsychje> ; )
[19:18] <daftykins> hahaha
[19:19] <lotuspsychje> shhhh
[19:19] <lotuspsychje> :p
[19:19] <OerHeks> you 2 are so lucky i have no clue.
[19:20] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: your not an op either :p
[19:23] <OerHeks> oh, you are double lucky.
[19:23] <lotuspsychje> :p
[19:24] <lotuspsychje> got query off OerHeks ?
[19:25] <OerHeks> I was trying to ruins someones usb with u3-stuff
[19:25] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:27]  * lotuspsychje only uses windows...to look through a wall
[19:27] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Re: Jonathan Riddell - yes, I saw his draft text yesterday
[19:28] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: ok thats the one you was talking bout right
[19:28] <TJ-> Yes
[19:28] <lotuspsychje> omgubuntu says kubuntu doesnt ends
[19:29] <TJ-> " of the other main developers have, or are about to, move on, too
[19:29] <TJ-> 2 of
[19:30] <daftykins> heh islandmonkey sounds like he/she is using a stolen machine :P
[19:31] <lotuspsychje> and the thief wants to run over ubuntu with it :p
[19:31] <wileee> All this seems like standard stuff, we are interested so know more than we would on mirrored industries. Any big orgs are gonna have hierarchies and over sized ego's
[19:32] <lotuspsychje> wileee: what are you talking about
[19:33] <wileee> usual human behavior, heh, the whole canonical, kubuntu in general and now this person leaving.
[19:33] <lotuspsychje> ahh
[19:33] <lotuspsychje> true
[19:34] <wileee> just generalized, I tend to not analyze the individual characters, no way in really knowing. ;)
[19:34] <OerHeks> dramatic, if a community relies on one person.
[19:34] <lotuspsychje> we are all ubuntu
[19:34] <lotuspsychje> and its never gonna be big org ego from our side
[19:35] <daftykins> i have no clue about what proprietary software development would be like, but the open source land definitely seems to be full of skilled people fighting amongst one another
[19:35] <lotuspsychje> opensource communites are the future, also in daily life
[19:36] <wileee> I'm biased but think ubuntu is probably one of the best overall from beginner to devel overall, support and a future that seems to be expanding, maybe the net cough redhat
[19:36] <wileee> next*
[19:37] <TJ-> wileee: the issue with/for Kubuntu was, J.R. was told to quit his post on the Kubuntu Community Council, by the Ubuntu Community Council, despite UCC having no control of KCC, and the other members of the KCC fully supporting Jonathan
[19:37] <wileee> or that general model of providers
[19:37] <wileee> TJ-, Ah, heh, not purdy.
[19:38] <TJ-> wileee:  I know of many senior, former core devs, who have moved away from Ubuntu for similar reasons
[19:39] <wileee> TJ-, Sure, I think this is standard procedure in the systems we accept as a free market and how this affects consumers and the devel here many working for free I suspect.
[19:39] <TJ-> Folks seem to forget the word 'dictator' in shuttleworth's 'honary' title, SABDFL (self-appointed benevolent dictaotor for life)
[19:39] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:40] <TJ-> Whenever the Ubuntu 'community' wants one thing and the dictator another - SABDFL gets his way
[19:40] <wileee> the free market as nice as it is, is not really working for everyone is all, yeah shuttleworth just one of the minor demigods
[19:40] <OerHeks> is there more behind this, mir ?
[19:41] <lotuspsychje> maybe there's a hidden agenda to make us all pay one day $$$
[19:42] <lotuspsychje> amazon, phones, internet of things
[19:42] <lotuspsychje> its all getting closer and closer
[19:42] <TJ-> OerHeks: the issues for Jonathan was Canonical publishing a licence that claimed derivatives could NOT re-distribute binary packages (they'd have to rebuild them from source), and issues over donations money not being accounted for fully (but spent by) Canonical
[19:45] <daftykins> 14.04 doesn't go straight to 15.04 is someones upgrading, does it? with utopic dead
[19:45] <daftykins> s/is/if/
[19:45] <OerHeks> Those license issues were solved,no?
[19:46] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: would not be reccomended
[19:47] <TJ-> OerHeks: pretty good overview of the issues here, especially the licence/IP policy and why the UCC/Shuttleworth insisted on J.R. standing down http://www.itworld.com/article/2949217/open-source-tools/canonical-changes-licensing-terms-to-comply-with-gpl.html
[19:49] <TJ-> OerHeks: FSF got Canonical to be more explicit this July - after 2 years - but it is still problematical. See that quote of Matthew Garret in that article, 3rd para of "There are still major issues with this policy"
[19:49] <TJ-> "Strict reading of the policy indicates that you are distributing a modified version of Ubuntu and therefore must either get it approved by Canonical or remove the trademarks and rebuild everything. The strange thing is that this doesn't limit itself to rebuilding packages that include Canonical's trademarks -- there's a requirement that you rebuild all binaries."
[19:50] <OerHeks> version number needs a trademark license, .. but any derivate should have its own unique ID
[19:50] <TJ-> That's the thing; Trademark law requires no such thing. TM law only applies for 'passing of', not 'in the ordinary course of business'
[19:50] <TJ-> s/of/off/
[19:53] <TJ-> this tension - in the background for many years - is what has driven the talent like Matthew Garrett, Scott Kitterman, Jonathan Riddell and others I cannot recall, away from Ubuntu. Those last 2 were very active KDE/Kubuntu devs/maintainers.
[20:26] <lotuspsychje_> nite nite
[20:43] <Bashing-om> TJ-: ( laiek ) Always a pleasure to see your thought processes, and great you take the time to explain .
[20:44] <TJ-> :D If I'm terse I get told I'm cryptic, so I try to ensure I only say things once :D
[20:45] <TJ-> Bashing-om: but basically... my brain operates like the CPU... I trace each step mentally from power-on, and figure out which decision paths the software would take based on current info... and refine that to try to pinpoint where to focus attention
[20:47] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Yeah .. I try to mean what I say and say what I mean .. In my simple mind re-stating only serves to confuse/take away from my focus .
[20:48] <Bashing-om> TJ-: In my early days of learning to program .. I too applied those processes to life in general . helps a bunch .
[20:56] <daftykins> anyone know the default paste expiration on paste.ubuntu.com ?
[20:57] <EriC^^> never i think
[20:57] <EriC^^> i uploaded my partition table there one day and have it on my cellphone
[20:58] <daftykins> XD
[20:58] <daftykins> yay
[20:58] <daftykins> of all things i just helped someone discover a bug in Kodi on OS X...
[20:58] <daftykins> since i've got that VM of OS X now ;)
[20:58] <EriC^^> yup still there! http://paste.ubuntu.com/8874720/
[20:58] <daftykins> 8D
[20:58] <EriC^^> cool
[20:59] <Bashing-om> TJ-: ( laiek ) /proc/mounts >> gvfsd-fuse /run/user/1000/gvfs fuse.gvfsd-fuse rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000 0 0 . Is this the one we are seeking ??
[21:04] <TJ-> Bashing-om: That's the GVFS daemon, as I recall GVFS handles mounting in userspace under ~/.gvfs/ or /run/$USER/gvfs/. or similar
[21:06] <TJ-> Bashing-om: this askubuntu gives some useful background on what to expect
[21:06] <TJ-> Bashing-om: http://askubuntu.com/questions/61196/why-do-my-gvfs-mounts-not-show-up-under-gvfs-or-run-user-login-gvfs
[21:06] <Bashing-om> TJ-: I also do not run gnome .. I think though in those days of unity I did have that mount point, just not sure of what to look at in this case .
[21:07] <TJ-> Unity uses the gnome libraries and GVFS as I recall
[21:07] <TJ-> I know it doesn't use QT/KDElibs :D
[23:09] <daftykins> TJ-: still busy busy i see :)
[23:11] <TJ-> Almost asleep on my feet... trying to get off to bed
[23:12] <daftykins> oof where did midnight come from!?
[23:12] <TJ-> I think english9090's install may have everything it needs for the sound device, but not configured correctly
[23:13] <TJ-> but dealing with the poor English and fixation on installing from source some realtek drivers is wearing
[23:14] <daftykins> doh :(
[23:14] <daftykins> do realtek actually provide a better way?
[23:16] <TJ-> I think he's got misled; read random forum posts rather than checking if the drivers are already there  - which they are
[23:17] <daftykins> could it have been one of those alsa config ones of adding the err, snd hda thingy
[23:18] <daftykins> can't even remember it myself now
[23:19] <TJ-> It's there, and the outputs are all there as per aplay -L ... I suspect auto-mute or output aimed at the HDMI
[23:20] <daftykins> hmm a guy in #ubuntu-uk had to disable HDMI as a device to get an optical stream working a bit ago, could well be fighting
[23:21] <TJ-> The defaults in GUI can often be the cause
[23:49] <TJ-> The worst thing that happened was when Gnome/Unity/KDE all decided to dumb-down the excellent PaVuControl so we lose a GUI view into the core of PA.
[23:50] <daftykins> :(
[23:54] <TJ-> hmmm, so on a clean install why would ALSA see and use 1 sound device, but PA not see that device, but see the other?
[23:55] <TJ-> hmmm... is this really an Ubuntu flavour? "Cinnamon Volume Control Dialog" (pactl list client #3)