=== balloons is now known as Guest90681 === nudtrobert1 is now known as nudtrobert === nudtrobert1 is now known as nudtrobert === nudtrobert1 is now known as nudtrobert === smoser` is now known as smoser === zeusbin is now known as binair === Guest90681 is now known as balloons [15:13] hello [15:13] cyphermox: hello, how are you? =) [15:14] hey [15:14] cyphermox: are we meant to have a meeting or some such? [15:14] cyphermox: do we have any agenda items? [15:15] heh, woops. it's not actually my turn to chair, but whatever [15:15] I had chaired in place of Laney last time :) [15:15] cyphermox: did you do it last time? in that case it would be micahg turn [15:15] yeah [15:16] Next DMB meetings (Chair: Mathieu): is not helpful then on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda [15:16] but still, I think we just have the agenda item for membership to uploaders [15:16] xnox: indeed, but it's because I thought it not good to change the order for one case of switching [15:16] I can chair again, don't mind :) [15:17] well we don't have any applicants. [15:17] and I'm not sure how many people are around. [15:18] infinity is probably away on vacation this week [15:18] ah, Laney is on holiday too [15:18] bdmurray: hey [15:19] micahg will be back in a few minutes and we can start the meeting then, I suppose. [15:31] #startmeeting DMB 2015-10-26 [15:31] Meeting started Mon Oct 26 15:31:05 2015 UTC. The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [15:31] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2015-10-26 Meeting | Current topic: [15:31] #voters micahg cyphermox xnox bdmurray [15:31] Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox micahg xnox [15:31] #votesrequired 4 [15:31] votes now need 4 to be passed [15:31] #topic Review of the previous action items === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2015-10-26 Meeting | Current topic: Review of the previous action items [15:32] Laney isn't around, so we'll just skip to the main topic, I guess [15:32] #subtopic Granting membership for PPU/packageset uploaders by default [15:32] +1 [15:32] do we want to discuss this before we vote? [15:32] so, my position is that some should have membership and some shouldn't [15:33] This is about the default process for PPU/packageset uploaders, whether they should ask to have membership too when they apply for upload rights [15:33] PPU doesn't, flavor packagesets should, other packagesets were not decided from what I remember [15:33] micahg: the question, whether it's opt-in, or opt-out. [15:34] right, so, it's a mix [15:34] why shouldn't PPU? and under which conditions do you feel packagesets might or might not? [15:34] so, the whole goal was to lower the bar for PPU so that more people can apply when they have the technical skills, but not the significant and sustained part [15:35] fair enough [15:35] still though, doesn't the significant and sustained part get implicitly verified in the way that we account for whether they have the technical skills? [15:35] so, ,if we're doing that, I would think it should be like any other membership where the applicant needs to apply for it [15:36] it could [15:36] ok [15:36] well. [15:36] if one wants upload rights apply for PPU for a package and/or packagest. [15:36] I feel it might be a little counterproductive to get them to ask for it, etc when they go for upload rights -- if we're to do that, we might as well have them apply to the RMB simply [15:37] if one wants membership apply for contributing member, MOTU, or core. [15:37] cyphermox: we have developer path to membership only - contributing developer. [15:37] I think it should be made abundantly clear to applicants that if they're just going for PPU or a packageset where there isn't a requirement for significant & sustained contribution that they have the option to apply to dev membership as well if they feel they've fulfilled the significant and sustained piece as well [15:37] oh, true [15:38] so, should we vote then? [15:38] it's basically was it 1 upload every 6 months or something a bit more significant [15:38] fwiw, Laney's vote was +1, but he didn't take part of the discussion here now [15:39] but as xnox said, the DMB is still the best place to grant that membership [15:39] * evaluate and grant [15:42] my problem with opt-out is that it increases the risk we'll reject applicants, if it's opt-in, worst case is they have to come back in 2 weeks [15:43] How does that work? [15:44] "> Individuals, when they apply to the DMB for packageset or PPU rights, [15:44] > will be considered separately for their upload access and for Ubuntu [15:44] > membership (the latter being optional, and usually not explicitly [15:44] > requested)." [15:45] should we make it explicitly clear with the applicant then whether they expect to be considered for membership at the meeting? [15:47] No, "we didn't expect people to have to say they want membership too" [15:47] that was not my understanding [15:47] no, we didn't expect, but we can ask [15:47] I thought for the PPU/packagesets where it wasn't coupled, they would have to ask explicitly [15:48] Okay, and the way I read Laney's email is that we will asume they want to be considered for membership. [15:49] right, that seems to be his position [15:49] that's the way I read it too [15:50] But the two things aren't coupled together. [15:50] well, for some they were (flavor & kernel packagesets, MOTU/core-dev) [15:53] so, voting? [15:54] #vote Should uploaders be granted Ubuntu membership by default [15:54] Please vote on: Should uploaders be granted Ubuntu membership by default [15:54] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) [15:54] -1 [15:54] -1 received from micahg [15:54] wait [15:54] that should be a little more narrow, no? [15:54] Should PPU/certain packagesets be granted Ubuntu membership by default? [15:55] no, we should reject Laney's proposition explicitly, I think [15:55] ok [15:55] or I can close the voting, reject, and we reconvene and further specify it? [15:56] I'm +0, btw, because it should be more specific; this depends on packagesets/packages [15:56] Are we saying the vote subject is about what is in the iki page? [15:56] you're right, we should vote on what was proposed since the proponent isn't here [15:56] we can then vote on follow up pieces if we want [15:57] bdmurray: the vote subject probably should be the specific thing Laney added as a topic? [15:57] the email he links to says "it's about whether we [15:57] should give these applicants membership implicitly and only use our [15:57] right to not give membership when it is needed." [15:57] it's super unclear, that's the problem [15:58] alright [15:58] it's a case-by-case basis and we're trying to codify that [15:58] +0 [15:58] +0 received from cyphermox [15:58] xnox: ? [15:58] I feel like this has been outstanding for quite some time. [15:58] bdmurray: yes [15:59] bdmurray: I'm not against voting on the specific cases now [15:59] or if everyone agrees that Laney meant what we were saying before [15:59] (basically, that we give it by default, unless we have a reason not to (ie. not sustained) [15:59] I don't want to make that assumption. [16:00] * bdmurray spoke too soon [16:00] bdmurray: I understand what you mean [16:02] xnox: bdmurray: are you voting or do you think we should refine it first? [16:04] i'm for: contributing, motu, core -> implies membership. the rest do not. [16:05] xnox: that's a strong -1 then, and PPU/packageset requesters should apply for contributing explicitly? [16:05] yeah. [16:05] I guess it needs some refining. [16:05] ok, let's see if we can convey this properly in the logs [16:05] #endvote [16:05] Voting ended on: Should uploaders be granted Ubuntu membership by default [16:05] Votes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1 [16:05] Motion denied [16:05] #rejected [16:06] should we refine this now? have we already done so and vote on a different, more specific topic? [16:09] I think Laney should be involved in the refinement. [16:11] ok, then [16:11] #action cyphermox to update wiki for refinement of Laney's proposition [16:11] ACTION: cyphermox to update wiki for refinement of Laney's proposition [16:11] #topic AOB? === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2015-10-26 Meeting | Current topic: AOB? [16:12] anyone has something else to discuss today? [16:13] nope [16:13] ok [16:13] #topic Chair selection for the next meeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2015-10-26 Meeting | Current topic: Chair selection for the next meeting [16:13] micahg: your turn according to the wiki list [16:13] unless you know you won't be there [16:13] ok :) [16:14] no, I should be there [16:14] #action micahg to chair next meeting [16:14] ACTION: micahg to chair next meeting [16:14] which reminds me, I need to send the doodle poll for meeting times [16:14] might as well action that.. [16:14] #action micahg to send doodle poll for meeting times [16:14] ACTION: micahg to send doodle poll for meeting times [16:14] thanks :) [16:14] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [16:14] Meeting ended Mon Oct 26 16:14:39 2015 UTC. [16:14] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-26-15.31.moin.txt [16:14] thanks everyone :) [16:33] \o [16:33] hello [16:33] o/ [16:33] #startmeeting [16:33] Meeting started Mon Oct 26 16:33:48 2015 UTC. The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [16:33] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [16:33] The meeting agenda can be found at: [16:34] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting [16:34] hello [16:34] [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report [16:34] jdstrand: you're up [16:34] I'm working on the various tasks for click-apparmor and policy for xenial [16:35] I'm then going to be working on cleaning up snappy policy generation [16:35] and some review tools updates [16:35] that's it for me [16:35] mdeslaur: you're up [16:36] I'm on bug triage this week [16:36] I just released mysql updates [16:36] and I have an embargoed issue to test [16:36] after that, I have some ntp updates to test properly and release [16:36] and will go down the list after that [16:36] that's pretty much it [16:36] sbeattie: , you're up [16:36] I'm on cve triage this week [16:37] I'm finishig testing the openjdk-7 update [16:38] I'm also working on the gcc pie patches [16:38] I have some yak shaving to finish up for xenial opening and to prep for the sprint [16:39] that's pretty much it for my week, though I'm hoping to pick up another update as well [16:39] tyhicks: you're it [16:39] I'm in the happy place this week [16:39] I need to do some sprint prep [16:40] I'm in the middle of the Mir attestable timestamps and mapplauncherd reviews [16:40] and still hoping to get to AppArmor kernel fix reviews [16:40] helping out with the update backlog would be good, too [16:40] jjohansen: you're up [16:41] I still working on the kernel patches for apparmor stacking [16:41] I will also have some sprint prep this week [16:42] and I should get the 4.3 apparmor patch tree in order so its ready for 4.3 when in lands [16:42] thats it for me sarnold you're up [16:43] I'm on community this week; there's a few xenial-open tasks held over fro mlast week, perhaps embargoed updates to work on, and a long list of apparmor kernel patches to review [16:44] also of course some sprint preperation [16:44] I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson? [16:45] he had to step away [16:45] we'll move on [16:45] [TOPIC] Highlighted packages === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages [16:45] The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. [16:45] See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved. [16:45] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/radare2.html [16:45] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-jquery-rails.html [16:45] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/async-http-client.html [16:45] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-mail.html [16:45] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/k4dirstat.html [16:45] [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions [16:46] Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss? [16:48] jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold: Thanks! [16:48] #endmeeting. === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [16:48] Meeting ended Mon Oct 26 16:48:14 2015 UTC. [16:48] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-26-16.33.moin.txt [16:48] thanks tyhicks [16:48] tyhicks: thanks! [16:49] thanks tyhicks [16:49] thanks tyhicks [16:49] thanks tyhicks :)