[01:04]  * m0nkey_ is about to live boot 15.10
[01:04] <m0nkey_> wish me luck
[01:04] <daftykins> ooh you devil
[01:05] <m0nkey_> Well, 14.04 and 15.04 caused my current computer to hang for about a minute after boot. Here's hoping 15.10 fixes that
[01:06] <m0nkey_> ooh, it did
[01:06] <daftykins> weird
[01:07] <m0nkey_> heh, been using freebsd too much
[01:07] <m0nkey_> i'm trying to get into ports
[01:07] <m0nkey_> lol
[01:07] <m0nkey_> portsnap don't work in ubuntu :)
[09:13] <knightwise> morning peeps
[09:14] <popey> Pip pip
[09:14] <knightwise> hey popey , how are you
[09:15] <popey> Tickety boo, you?
[09:17] <knightwise> doin ok . Self employment is a busy enterprise :)
[09:17] <knightwise> but not complaining. Hoping to find the time to record a new podcast episode today
[09:41] <diplo> Mornign all
[09:41] <diplo> morning*
[09:43] <knightwise> ey diplo
[09:46] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy OK Corral Day! 😃
[09:47] <bashrc> Is there a Not OK Corral?
[10:02] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:27] <diplo> Keyboard changed to US after upgrade to Wily :/
[10:28] <diplo> Set to English UK though
[10:28] <awilkins> I kept getting that for a while
[10:29] <awilkins> I usually try and combat it by removing the US layout from the list entirely
[10:29] <diplo> Ah clicked on language support in settings and it says it's not installed completely
[10:29] <diplo> yeah isn\t there in mine
[10:30] <diplo> looks like tbird and libre updates though got yhsay
[10:30] <diplo> that*
[10:30] <awilkins> It's going to be a bigbang reinstall for me :-(
[10:30] <awilkins> Running 14.04 with a slightly convoluted partition table
[10:30] <awilkins> Windows 7 dual boot
[10:31] <awilkins> Have a nice new 500GB SSD that I want to benefit from
[10:31] <diplo> Going for reinstall on 16.04
[10:31] <awilkins> So it's OS on the SSD + Intel RST caching for /home   and G:\GAMES
[10:31] <awilkins> on the 2TB of spinning rust
[10:32] <awilkins> (well, not Intel RST for the Linux, bcache or something)
[10:32] <diplo> Mines my work machine, want to run VM's on it...
[10:33] <awilkins> Will have to upgrade Windows 7 to WIndows 10 as well
[10:33] <awilkins> Well, don't *have* to
[10:33] <diplo> Not doing that
[10:33] <awilkins> But if I'm bleaching the whole thing clean I may as well
[10:33] <diplo> Everything is set to UK
[10:33]  * diplo = stumped atm
[10:33] <awilkins> diplo, Is there some implication of SSD caching / VM images?
[10:34] <awilkins> diplo, I had a thing where you had to flip the config to USA and back again, even if it was showing UK
[10:34] <diplo> ah right, don't have US on there, will add and change and back ta
[10:35] <diplo> awilkins: I use the machine as a desktop, running anymore than a few VM's kills it... trying to get a new machine and reinstall..
[10:35] <awilkins> Ah
[10:35] <Myrtti_> I was so baffled yesterday trying to figure out what the hell had happened to my vm
[10:35] <awilkins> I was going to get a new machine
[10:35] <diplo> Going to find whats best for running that many VM's, not sure how well SSD's take to being on a lot on a desktop machine
[10:35] <awilkins> THen I discovered that for gaming purposes my CPU is only 3-4% slower than the latest Intel Behemoth or whatever
[10:35] <awilkins> So I just shoved another 8GB of RAM and a 980Ti in it
[10:36] <awilkins> Now the only thing holding it's awesome monster-ness back is the slow IO on the spinning rust
[10:37] <awilkins> Running a Windows 7 VM with 2 cores and 4GB of RAM allocated, works like a charm
[10:38] <awilkins> You can get away with 256MB for most Linux server VMs that are just web toasters
[10:38] <awilkins> Hell, I think that's overkill for most of the tasks I have them running
[10:38] <awilkins> I'm running my Redmine instance on a RPi2
[10:39] <awilkins> And the database on my NAS box (although it worked fine using sqlite locally on the RPi)
[10:50] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:52] <popey> Yo!
[10:53] <bigcalm> popey: cheeky
[10:54] <popey> wat?
[10:54] <bigcalm> Facebook comment. I guess I should have responded there
[10:56] <JohnHunt> https://t.co/we2U0HpvhS
[10:56] <JohnHunt> sorry, that's a shortlink
[10:57] <JohnHunt> history of ubuntu to date
[10:57] <JohnHunt> I remember using the first version :)
[10:57] <JohnHunt> I lost all interest when it went over to the unity interface
[10:59] <zmoylan-pi> then try xubuntu, works great for me
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> I've been installing Debian lately
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> minimal + cinnamon
[11:14] <bigcalm> JohnHunt: try http://ubuntu-mate.org/ - Mate is the forked continuation of Gnome2
[11:40] <JohnHunt> cool
[11:42] <bigcalm> And pronounced Mar-tay, not mate
[11:42] <bigcalm> Which is an oddity
[11:43] <JohnHunt> lol
[11:43] <JohnHunt> my name is linus
[11:43] <zmoylan-pi> that'll help promote it... :-)
[11:43] <JohnHunt> and I pronounce linux linux
[11:48] <zmoylan-pi> and don't get me started on the eejit who pronounces gif as jif...
[11:48] <zmoylan-pi> i'll set a jorilla on his ass :-)
[11:55] <popey> haha, oddity that words from another language are pronounced differently
[12:00] <zmoylan-pi> https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/English_hard_2learn.html
[12:04] <popey> http://www.gearbest.com/cell-phones/pp_231265.html
[12:04] <popey> interesting device
[12:08] <zmoylan-pi> a lot of spec for not much money
[12:11] <MartijnVdS> With some free hidden apps, provided by the Chinese Government?
[12:12] <zmoylan-pi> the gchq/nsa ones will be installed when you connect to uk network
[12:21] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Very nice for the price, can't be any worse than HTC garbage
[12:25] <JohnHunt> looks good except the big promo thing says stuff such as "64BITS TURE OCTA CORE"
[12:25] <JohnHunt> Ture?
[12:26] <JohnHunt> does look good though
[12:30] <JohnHunt> apparently the battery isn't so good
[12:31] <zmoylan-pi> it's a smart phone, of course the battery is crap
[12:31] <TwistedLucidity> Shut it, Nokiaphile! :-)
[12:32]  * zmoylan-pi clubs TwistedLucidity with my nokia to silence his dissent... :-P
[12:47]  * awilkins notes that zmoylan-pi's Nokia still works after clubbing TwistedLucidity to death with it
[12:48] <zmoylan-pi> no problems with it what so ever.  i did see a broken nokia screen last week but it took an encounter with a skip to break it
[12:49] <zmoylan-pi> plus the nokia has a battery life that lasts more that a day no matter what i do with it
[13:04] <awilkins> Their candybar phones are basically the uberphone
[13:04] <awilkins> They are the best at being a phone
[13:05] <awilkins> It's everyone's insistence on carrying around a pocket computer with a phone function that's the problem for them...
[13:06] <zmoylan-pi> well i could use java ssh client on my nokia asha 302 to connect to rasp pi at home for full computer...
[13:09] <zmoylan-pi> like this... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/617691779622637568/photo/1
[13:12] <awilkins> I question the "dumbness" of a phone with a full alphanumeric keypad and a colour LCD display with that many pixels
[13:13] <awilkins> This is a proper dumbphone  http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/nokia-s-3310-the-greatest-phone-of-all-time-1287636
[13:13] <zmoylan-pi> it's a phone that can only run 1 app with a few exceptions, mp3 player, fm radio etc.
[13:13] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: https://www.tumblr.com/search/3310
[13:14] <Dave> the 3310 surely isn't that dumb, it has Snake
[13:14] <diplo> I still have my 3310 in my drawer
[13:14] <diplo> and a 6210
[13:14] <diplo> My kids powered it on the other week, it *still* had charge :D
[13:15] <zmoylan-pi> your snake high scores were intact...
[13:16] <diplo> hehe, not sure I ever played it
[13:16] <diplo> tbh, no games on my smartphone either
[13:17] <zmoylan-pi> i have a very nice java sudoku for my nokia...
[13:17] <zmoylan-pi> AND a c64 AND a zx spectrum java emulator...
[13:17] <MartijnVdS> A c64 java emulator?
[13:18] <zmoylan-pi> yup
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> So you can run slow Java programs even slower, and on a C64? :P
[13:18] <zmoylan-pi> if i want accss to real games :-)
[13:24] <diddledan> fun talk about timezones with a choice quote: "when I started in tech I didn't really have career goals. But if I did, one of them wouldn't have been increase political tension in a long-standing conflict in the middle east" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BdFg5JT9lg
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> ooh a new time zone video, not Tom Scott's :)
[13:35] <diddledan> I think I need to put socks on my feet - I'm cold
[13:35] <diddledan> yey for working from home :-p
[13:36] <zmoylan-pi> put on slippers and break out the cocoa. \o/
[13:40]  * zmoylan-pi breaks out winter duvet as cold last night was a little much...
[14:48] <diddledan> finally got around to purchasing an SPI-capable USB cable to attempt a bios/efi firmware recovery
[14:50] <diddledan> I wonder whether I'll be able to achieve it...
[14:50] <Myrtti_> BusPirate?
[14:50] <diddledan> worth a shot tho, 'cos it's a dead mobo otherwies
[14:51] <diddledan> Myrtti_, an FTDI C232HM-DDHSL
[14:51] <diddledan> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Cables/USBMPSSE.htm
[14:51] <diddledan> I didn't buy off that site tho - I found a second-hand on ebay for a fiver
[14:52] <Myrtti_> we got a BusPirate trying to get into an old laptop that had bios/efi password protected and the password forgotten
[14:52] <Myrtti_> didn't get anywhere :-|
[14:52] <diddledan> :-(
[14:53] <Myrtti_> BusPirate was nice tho, I used it as oscilloscope when I was doing my bouquet
[14:53] <zmoylan-pi> motherboard didn't have a reset jumper to flush?
[14:53] <diddledan> I don't expect laptops would have one of those
[14:54] <zmoylan-pi> they do but it's harder to get to
[14:55] <diddledan> the cable I just paid for is said to be compatible with http://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom which is why I went for it
[16:01] <daftykins> diddledan: what machine is it?
[16:01] <diddledan> daftykins, it's an MSI mobo
[16:02] <daftykins> o0
[16:02] <daftykins> bleh overclockers.co.uk redesigned their site and removed the 'show excluding VAT' option :P
[16:02] <daftykins> that is highly frustrating
[16:03] <diddledan> they're encouraging mental arithmetic
[16:03] <diddledan> it's all part of the UK's new programme to improve the maths skills of the elderly
[16:03] <daftykins> ;)
[16:03] <daftykins> or us sarnians
[16:05] <awilkins> baconsarnians?
[16:06] <diddledan> the internet is claiming that bacon gives you cancer
[16:07] <awilkins> the internet gives you anxiety induced disorders
[16:07] <awilkins> Is there anyone in here who would recommend PHP?
[16:07] <diddledan> I like PHP
[16:08] <diddledan> I get paid to do PHP :-p
[16:08] <awilkins> Currently I'm getting paid to do PHP
[16:08] <daftykins> that good, huh? :)
[16:08] <awilkins> It's my second day of PHP. I'd rather be getting paid to do Python
[16:08] <awilkins> Or Ruby
[16:08] <awilkins> I hate Ruby and think it's a horrible little script kiddie language
[16:09] <awilkins> Basically been told to patch a PHP ticket tracker until it meets the specs
[16:09] <diddledan> I looked at ruby and didn't understand it
[16:09] <awilkins> My contention is that I can put up a Ruby ticket tracker that covers the requirements quicker
[16:10] <awilkins> Since I can set up this one I had in mind in an afternoon from scratch, I'm already right
[16:10] <awilkins> Whereas currently I'm struggling to find the bit I need to patch in this one
[16:11] <awilkins> Oh holy mentalist it's 173,000 lines of PHP
[16:11] <diddledan> :-o
[16:11] <awilkins> Wow
[16:11] <awilkins> The other system wins so hard
[16:12] <diddledan> redmine is the other system? :-p
[16:12] <awilkins> The PHP one is JUST a customer support ticket system
[16:12] <awilkins> osticket
[16:12] <awilkins> Redmine is the other system
[16:12] <awilkins> 115,000 lines of ruby
[16:12] <diddledan> yeah, redmine is good
[16:12] <awilkins> Including all the unit tests
[16:13] <awilkins> The UI and workflow on osticket are good for customer support. So naturally management want to use it to do change tracking. *s8gh*
[16:13] <daftykins> that's quite the difference
[16:13] <daftykins> then it's your job to persuade them toward seeing sense :D
[16:13] <awilkins> Tried that
[16:14] <awilkins> "We're already using osTicket" was the answer
[16:14] <awilkins> For 60 whole tickets
[16:14] <awilkins> Basically one step up from a shared Excel spready
[16:15] <daftykins> :|
[16:15] <daftykins> i've been asked to attend a meeting soon for some folk that are about to purchase a CRM system
[16:15] <awilkins> Yeah, well, I've only administered / transmogrified 5 separate ticket systems with tens of thousands of tickets, and used many more, what the hell do I know...
[16:15] <daftykins> i'm predicting the current local IT firm are going to be pushing something nasty like an MS SQL server backed product
[16:16] <diddledan> \o/ MS SQL!
[16:16] <awilkins> Ugh MSSQL
[16:16] <diddledan> we recently had to implement Drupal backed by MSSQL - it still isn't working right
[16:16] <awilkins> No.1 PITA when dealing with expensive enterprisey software is getting people to pay for extra instances for dev....
[16:17] <awilkins> Even if it's just an MSDN license
[16:17] <awilkins> Then waiting for it to arrive
[16:17] <awilkins> And installing it
[16:17] <awilkins> When you can just sudo apt-get install <stuff>
[16:18] <awilkins> Even that Redmine instance completely ignoring the OS packages (because gem / bundler and Debian hate each other)
[16:18] <diddledan> we were told we MUST use MSSQL because they already had a cluster set up that they wanted to add our drupal install's DB into
[16:18] <daftykins> even if this competitor guy of mine says they'll be using SQL Express, that's jut not good in my mind
[16:19] <daftykins> *just
[16:19] <diddledan> I don't get SQL Express at all
[16:19] <awilkins> It's MSSQL only they set the "PRAGMA_CRIPPLE" flag when they compiled it
[16:19] <daftykins> i used it for the first time for some client that was contractually obligated to use some horrible facilities management product, i found it nasty - not that i knew what i was doing :D
[16:20] <awilkins> 10GB db limit
[16:20] <bashrc> guiding a user through installing things via the software centre, I've always wondered by the icon has an anarchy symbol on it
[16:20] <awilkins> 1 CPU / 4 core limit
[16:20] <awilkins> And the kicker, only allowed 1GB of RAM in process
[16:21] <daftykins> :D
[16:21] <daftykins> at least it doesn't require a windows server host, that would be cringeworthy
[16:21] <awilkins> Oh, and doesn't support compressed volumes
[16:22] <awilkins> Not that this matters when your data limit is 10GB
[16:22] <daftykins> i've not got a clue of any CRM products though so i don't know what to expect, this client just wants this other IT firm off this company because they are very expensive
[16:22] <awilkins> Consulting firms ALWAYS recommend expensive stuff
[16:22] <awilkins> I think it's to distract from their bill
[16:22] <awilkins> Or they get a kickback
[16:22] <daftykins> :D
[16:23] <awilkins> WE had one lot that came in recommending StarTeam
[16:23] <daftykins> their labour rate is £95/hr too
[16:23] <awilkins> £34,000 of licenses
[16:23] <daftykins> ouch!
[16:23] <awilkins> I said "No, I'll develop the prototype using the SVN server we have in house, ta."
[16:23] <awilkins> And then sacked off the SVN and used Bazaar instead
[16:23] <awilkins> Because the checkout time was 2 times faster
[16:24] <awilkins> Sorry, 6x - 24x faster (depending on version of Bazaar and whether your machine was a horrible corporate malware laden Windows box)
[16:24] <jpds> and considering git is 100x faster than bzr
[16:24] <daftykins> actual malware, or Windows hatred there? :)
[16:25] <awilkins> I'd use Git these days but the Windows port was too painful at the time
[16:25] <awilkins> daftykins, "Corporate malware" : software that makes the computer do the IT department's bidding instead of yours at the expense of your productivity
[16:26] <awilkins> In this case, the thing wot hashes every file you access was super fun and took a processing run in the software from about 90s to 14 minutes
[16:26] <daftykins> ah right
[16:26] <diddledan> what's the ubuntu project and/or canonical's stance on bazaar these days?
[16:26] <awilkins> Although the performance improvements I made over the original software were still not swallowed by that
[16:27] <daftykins> i just phoned overclockers.co.uk who confirmed they've regressed their site entirely to not handle VAT removal either in display or orders now ;)
[16:27] <awilkins> There's still some traffic on the bzr mailing list, and it still remains the official VCS of Launchpad and Ubuntu AFAIK
[16:27] <daftykins> nice work, there :>
[16:27] <diddledan> daftykins, that's sucky
[16:30] <diddledan> I saw a few months back that launchpad had experrymental git support
[16:31] <awilkins> HERESY!!!!!
[16:31] <awilkins> Nah, I liked Bazaar a lot but I wouldn't go back
[16:33] <diddledan> the problem I have with the various SCMs is that they're all equivalent to walled-gardens like the various mobile ecosystems are
[16:33] <awilkins> Bazaar tried to be all things (well, more things) and act as a git porcelain
[16:34] <awilkins> And the various fast-export things + reposurgeon are positive
[16:34] <awilkins> I do think the best route is to make Git easier and better at handling large files
[16:35] <popey> yeah, the git support should be fun in launchpad
[16:35] <diddledan> the accepted solution for large files in git seems to be to store them elsewhere
[16:35] <awilkins> Pretty much because it's diff handling doesn't do streams I think
[16:35] <awilkins> So it has to hold the whole file in RAM 2 or 3 times
[16:36] <awilkins> I still don't understand why e.g. Game Devs use Perforce and advocate so hard for it
[16:36] <diddledan> doesn't google use perforce?
[16:37] <awilkins> I remember seeing a blog post by the Star Citizen guys "Hey we turned on <topic branches>, aren't we all grown up"
[16:38] <awilkins> I just facepalmed.... you're supposed to be _pros_ why wasn't that feature on from day 1 and use of it enforced.....
[16:38] <awilkins> This was some time after a couple of alpha releases
[16:38] <awilkins> "Oh hey, we get regressions" OH I WONDER WHY
[16:39] <daftykins> :)
[17:15] <diddledan> http://www.cameronsworld.net/
[17:15] <diddledan> geocities isn't dead!
[17:16] <bashrc> groovy
[20:39] <foobarry> talktalk hack was allegedly a 15yr old boy
[20:40] <daftykins> heh
[20:40] <foobarry> from ulster
[20:43] <diddledan> I think it was the government and they're scapegoating a 15yr old boy :-p
[22:12] <daftykins> that there popey has an odd quit message
[22:33]  * arsenip pokes daftykins 
[22:33] <daftykins> ow
[22:33] <daftykins> hi
[22:35] <diddledan> I really wonder what an arse nip feels like
[22:35] <diddledan> it sounds painful
[22:37] <daftykins> i could lend you my cat for an answer
[22:37] <diddledan> lol
[22:38] <daftykins> nah she's not done that, she's more the one for slowly creeping up to the top edge of the bed sheets... extending a paw as far as she can reach then poking my face
[22:39] <daftykins> "hey... hey... HEY... hoo-man..."