[13:14] hi [13:14] melodie: feel free to leave him a ping, he'll reply when about. [13:15] no right now, I'm reading this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomizeLiveInitrd [13:15] and seeing there are changes to be done [13:15] at same time I'm unsquashing some file systems to see how it is done inside [13:19] wxl, phillw, Kamilion I've identified a fairly minor issue in the Pi 2 build. [13:19] I will be making a new spin. [13:19] Have you got any additional feedback for me? [13:19] flexiondotorg: okies.... My Dad will be bringing home my pi2 from the works this evening :) [13:20] hi flexiondotorg [13:20] meetingology, Hello [13:20] flexiondotorg: Error: "Hello" is not a valid command. [13:20] melodie, Hello [13:20] flexiondotorg: I'd like to introduce melodie, she has a respin and area for education and providing computers for those who cannot afford. I'm sure you will get on very well. [13:21] flexiondotorg if you people have Pi 1 stored in some drawers or cupboards, there is a distribution created specifically for them, to be sent to Africa to be used with a TV. It's "Malinux Télé" [13:21] melodie, I do have Pi 1s :-) [13:21] flexiondotorg phillw thought to introduce me to you so that I could perhaps ask help from you to improve my "remix-fu" which is still in the learning curve. ^^ [13:22] Link to remix-fu? [13:22] flexiondotorg I hope you don't mind French, you might be able to use some translate google kind of thing on that website (the distro is intended for the Mali where French is talked) [13:22] lol [13:23] flexiondotorg "remix-fu" is just a name I put up now to say I remix and need to improve the method. You can see something at http://linuxvillage.org/en and http://bentovillage.me [13:23] else, here is Malinux Télé : http://malinuxtele.tuxfamily.org/ [13:24] flexiondotorg: it is a part of the martial art Kung-fu ... when you master something you add -fu ... So, a person able to use the additional search features of google posses google-fu :) [13:30] Thanks for the links. I'll take a look. [13:33] right now I am trying to discover how the official isos get "initrd.lz" to be a real lzma compressed file, whereas Bento Openbox, (which I do) and also Unit193's IceWM (which is of a higher tech standard than mine, and also a non official version) have "initrd.lz" which are gzip files. [13:33] I thought it could be something related to the initramfs-tools, but I haven't got anywhere with this guess [13:53] they probably just run mkinitramfs -c themselves and override /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf 's compress directive. [13:54] COMPRESS - Specifies the compression method used for the initramfs image. mkinitramfs will default to gzip if the kernel lacks support (CONFIG_RD) or the corresponding userspace utility is not present. [13:54] probably missing the userspace utilities for it to do lzma. [13:56] lol [13:56] COMPRESS [13:56] Specifies the compression method used for the initramfs image. [13:56] mkinitramfs will default to gzip if the kernel lacks support [13:56] (CONFIG_RD) or the corresponding userspace utility is not [13:56] present. [13:57] nooo... that's not the right paste... Thanks, kvirc. *sigh* [13:58] anyway, COMPRESS in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf is whatcha wanna play with. [13:58] the default in the file is 'gzip' and it can take the following parameters: 'gzip', 'bzip2', 'lzma', 'lzop', 'xz'. XZ is also known as LZMA2. [13:59] thus, you should have LZMA2 support in your kernel image enabled [13:59] Kamilion I look! [13:59] hello btw :) [13:59] o/ [13:59] * Kamilion rubs eyes [14:00] why d'you rub eyes? not awaken yet? [14:00] just woke up ~10m ago [14:00] 7am here. [14:01] you are 8 hours earlier from my place now. We just changed for winder daylight saving [14:01] we get that on sunday [14:01] hi Kamilion :) [14:01] o/ [14:02] go grab some coffee and wake up before melodie sucks your brains out with a straw (She's good at that! ) [14:02] I read your answer and answered back to Clearkimura, and put you in copy [14:02] phillw not possible with Kamilion [14:02] he has a knowlegde way over my ability to feed from. ;) [14:03] bleg, coffee [14:03] that stuff rots your brain [14:03] phillw and he is very good at feeding! he tried to feed me with whole mountain chains of knowledge before I had to give up! XD [14:03] melodie: while you are here.... Will you be wanting a non-pae kernel come 16.04 time? [14:03] Kamilion what do you get for your breakfast? [14:03] phillw if you create one, I'll probably create a Bento for it. why not? [14:04] melodie: in that case I will keep the VM used to create it :) [14:04] ok [14:04] I don't break fast till lunch around 2:30PM. Then something else around 7:30PM. [14:04] no promise though, it always depends on what events will occur by that time [14:05] indeed, but the VM is doing no harm to anyone :) [14:05] Kamilion so what is it you drink and eat at that time? [14:05] ahahaha [14:05] phillw sure [14:05] knowledge [14:05] Kamilion :) [14:06] Kamilion when you will have read my answer to Clearkimura, and when you can take the time to think about it, I'll be interested to see if it's possible to go further, seeking why I get more than 20MB difference [14:06] 55kg and 175cm. I do not require significant amounts of nutrition to maintain such a form. [14:06] I already pointed that out in my answer, melodie [14:07] perhaps you were using email and didn't catch the edited github post? [14:07] Kamilion you were still sleeping while I was answering this morning, europe time. [14:07] oh, and clear did too [14:07] "Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:45:13 +0100" [14:08] my Message-Id: <20151027114513.1541f11b3273ae8496ea24d2@gmx.fr> [14:08] "It will only apply the compression filter if it makes sense to -- and if it increases compression, there's no reason not to use it." [14:08] yes I read your answer, and his [14:09] it found some data it could compress, so it did [14:09] that's how filters work [14:09] and the above message id is my last mail [14:09] regardless of what the actual binary format of the file is [14:09] it could be some data files in the QT docs or part of the llvm compiler suite, the compressor doesn't care [14:10] Kamilion : [14:10] "that looks like data I can compress with the IA64 filter!" [14:10] "that looks like data I can compress with the armthumb filter!" [14:10] the tradeoff, however, is time [14:10] source iso A to dest iso 1 (with x86 only) : 695MB [14:10] it takes time to 'try' a filter against a block to see if it compresses better [14:11] the more filters you add to the list, the longer the compression takes. [14:11] source iso A to dest iso 2 (with 'x86,ia64') : 681MB [14:11] Tell ya what, i just got myself a new PC today [14:11] so I'll do some testing with it once I have it set up. [14:11] ok [14:12] Got m'self a quad-socket opteron board, a supermicro H8QGL [14:12] http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/motherboard/Opteron6000/SR56x0/H8QGL-iF.cfm [14:12] http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/4U/748/SC748TQ-R1400.cfm [14:13] came into the lab, USB port next to the keyboard port's broken. [14:13] this looks like very nice hardware [14:13] thing's got 64 cores and 256GB of memory when it arrived... But because of the broken USB port, the shell and motherboard would have been scrapped [14:13] "Aha!" i say [14:14] "Look here, there are two other headers on the motherboard for attaching USB ports." [14:15] :) [14:15] Since it was about to go into the trash anyway, I paid the weight of the unit, 75LBS, for $2 each. [14:15] found some cheap processors on ebay that would fit [14:15] http://www.ebay.com/itm/OS6134WKT8EG0-AMD-Opteron-6100-Series-6134-2-3GHz-6MB-x2-3200MHz-Socket-G34-Proc-/151842808302?hash=item235a8961ee:g:GU8AAOSw~bFWFtty [14:16] found a pack of four of them for $99 total, that had come out of one of these early in their lifetime before the AMD 12 and 16 core chips were released. [14:16] you are very good! XD [14:16] http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-OS6380WKTGGHKWOF-Opteron-6380-Abu-Dhabi-2-5GHz-115W-16-Core-Server-Processor-/111501365754 <--- these are what came out [14:16] scavenging usually pays dividends :) [14:16] boss thinks he can sell them for at least $700 each based on that [14:16] and here's the kicker [14:17] it came in not booting at all [14:17] hit the power button, all the fans spin up, blank screen [14:17] no bios, no nothing [14:17] what solved it? [14:17] a three cent sticker. [14:17] the broken usb port pins were touching the connector housing. [14:17] nicely spotted :) [14:17] isolating them brought it right up, and verified that all the guts were working and salable. [14:18] plus it had sixteen 16GB sticks in it [14:18] * phillw drools [14:18] all ECC, I set the machine's BIOS to 'ECC SCRUB MAX' [14:18] no problems [14:19] pulled the old parts out [14:19] I had four 8GB sticks I had been saving for a while [14:19] Kamilion each time I start a discussion with you, you just did one famous great business such as this one. do you do that several times a week? :D [14:19] nice samsung ECC [14:19] that had come through from a similar machine [14:19] melodie: no, I deal with new systems several times a day. [14:20] WEE directive is kind to him and the company :) [14:20] WEEE, yes, we do WEEE Takeback for european markets (being here in california) [14:20] because this is where the companies that sold the equipment are [14:20] ECC is the feature which makes the memory sticks work together in an inter related way? [14:20] ECC is extended error correction codes. [14:21] oh yes [14:21] getting to be pretty common even in modern desktop systems [14:21] ok [14:21] used to be the realm of the super-expensive servers only [14:21] hehe [14:21] :) [14:21] cause they wanted $800 for an $80 stick, because ENTERPRISE [14:21] of course ^^ (money money) [14:22] and us freebooters can't afford no $800 ram sticks, let alone the droolworthy 32GB sticks available now [14:22] and I heard toshiba announced the first 64GB single DIMM stick [14:22] what is a "freebooter" ? about Free Open Source Software? [14:22] you have the meaning of car boot sale, yes? [14:23] in your geographic area you are ahead of many countries for the power and quality of the hardware [14:23] car boot sale? Is that when you sell fast and cheaper? [14:23] or? [14:24] Hoodlums selling things out of the back of car boot/trunks, often stolen car radios and merchandise from robbed houses, or in other cases, 'found' and repaired gear after the HAM radio community partially adopted the term here in the USA [14:25] the modern connotation meaning someone who goes to swap meets and trades, in HAM community [14:26] a 'freebooter' is someone who loans or gives away HAM gear to interested persons. [14:26] removing the 'sale' from the mix. [14:26] supposedly it stems from the 1970s CB/HAM movement in america, along with the 'trucking'/'trucker' stories. [14:26] Kamilion I'll seek on the web for some of your words, such as "hoodlums", "HAM". Hold on, I'll brb! [14:27] "HAM Radio" [14:27] ok [14:27] "HAM" will get you something much different, heh [14:28] .... Nooooooooooo! BAD WINDOWS [14:28] http://puu.sh/kZvtv/46908991d9.png [14:28] amateur radio [14:28] why does it pick the most annoying times [14:28] lol [14:28] and the worst part is, I don't have the source so I can't change it for myself. [14:29] Kamilion ok, hoodlums now :D [14:30] that seems typical of your area! [14:30] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hoodlum [14:30] "chav", "hoodlum", "gangster", "youth", "that little shithead" [14:30] take your pick... XD [14:31] and hood is also a part of the wearing that covers the head [14:31] green hood? :D [14:31] ok, now I can read again your say and understand what you say! [14:31] aye, but I don't think they had those when the phrases were coined. [14:32] but that's a hundred and fifty year old word, so.... hahaha [14:32] meets and trade ? [14:32] hahaha ? do others you know irl use it? [14:32] to meet : I know, to trade, I know, does "meets and trade" take a special meaning here? [14:34] Pour rencontrer à un emplacement pour l'équipement utilisé pour la transmission radio échange et de culture générale, de rencontrer et de swap. [14:35] early form of linux user groups [14:35] s/linux/radio/i [14:35] ok [14:35] we could also talk about "special ham garage sales" ? [14:36] https://www.google.com/search?q=ham+shack&es_sm=122&tbm=isch [14:36] a group of pictures is worth a million words. [14:37] Kamilion: Ham has a different meaning to me :) https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ham+radio+pictures&client=ubuntu&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=634&tbm=isch&imgil=F6yc-BErLF63IM%253A%253BorlOJ35xNm2lgM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Farccla.us%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=F6yc-BErLF63IM%253A%252CorlOJ35xNm2lgM%252C_&usg=__RcisGSFx5lxmzidiiuHkY4rQA2Q%3D&ved=0CDUQyjdqFQoTCMWKipTw4sgCFULNFAodaLoGRw&ei=CIwvVsXmNcKaU-j0mrgE#imgrc=F6yc-BErLF63IM%3A&usg=__RcisGSFx5lxmz [14:38] Who're you callin ANALOG there, sonny?! them's fighting amplitudes! [14:39] https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ham+radio+pictures&client=ubuntu&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=634&tbm=isch [14:39] trimmed that for you [14:39] https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.qrz.com/n/kd8edn/Ham_Radio_Zone.jpg [14:40] Anyhoo, off for a while, as I mentioned, new PC [14:41] so I'm taking the chance to DD my windows 7 partition from a 1TB western digital to a 2TB western digital. [14:41] Kamilion LOL [14:41] at http://arccla.us/images/Ham-Radio_Old-Timer.gif [14:42] https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1219665553/Mad_Radio_Operator_400x400.jpg <--- more like what I remember... [14:50] this was mine .. http://www.cbmonitor.cz/cb_muzeum/fotogalery/detail.php?sid=124 [14:51] Oh, happy days :) [14:52] (14:13:27) Kamilion: thing's got 64 cores and 256GB of memory when it arrived... But because of the broken USB port, the shell and motherboard would have been scrapped ---- If you got any spare, I'll pay shipping to UK :D [14:57] people keep saying that to me [14:57] i've waited two years for this to drop in my lap [14:57] http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2654242 [14:58] phillw: but if you want a H8QG6-LN4F? We've got a stack of like ten of those, can definitely ship to the UK. [14:58] http://area51dev.blogspot.com/p/ocng5-installation.html [14:58] Flash the firmware: [14:58] if using H8QG6 or H8QGi series board (all except LN4F variant!), type: FLASH.BAT QG63NG52.C16 [14:58] if using H8QG7 or H8QGi series board (LN4F variant only!), type: FLASH.BAT QG73NG52.C09 [14:58] if using H8QGL series board, type: FLASH.BAT QGL3NG52.C19 [14:58] if using H8SGL series board, type: FLASH.BAT SGL3NG52.B25 [14:59] the H8QG6-LN4F isn't supported by the overclocking hack firmware I've been itching to use for the past two years. [14:59] and of COURSE it's been the exact kind that shows up here. >.< [14:59] so you want one of them? sure, no problem, they're not selling well anyway [14:59] (half the reason the boss let me keep this H8QGL [14:59] Kamilion I want to run a project which implies free software and recycling computers, if that project goes up to the creation, I might come back to you for such plans. [15:00] sure; all the rackmount servers you could need, but nothing else. [15:00] cause we've sold most of it! [15:01] if that goes it's way, it will take one year I think [15:01] but if you can build a desktop PC, you can build a server PC. [15:01] the steps are no different, there are simply more iterations of a few of them. [15:01] just a powerful 'core' machine multi-core and lots of RAM... I'd look to have it hooked up nearer Warrington where there is a business internet account so bandwidth is better than I have here in the countryside :) [15:02] Kamilion about the config file you told me : /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf : in Xubuntu, the compression in the file is "gzip", but the initrd.lz is a real lzma one, as the "file" command says [15:04] okay [15:05] phillw: bandwidth means nothing to me; this thing is primarily for running VMs and doing builds with mksquashfs [15:05] I've been limping along on a single opteron 6134 doing the kamikazi builds [15:06] sometimes 10 to 12 in a day [15:06] and my boss has been complaining that I'm 'not working enough' [15:06] (cause I'm waiting for the long squashfs to finish compressing) [15:06] pretty much right in the problem space melodie is exploring, right now. [15:07] one of her remarks on the github issue for Customiser was that building an ISO basically ate her machine's responsiveness completely. (mksquashfs will eat every drop of CPU available, and demand MOAR) [15:08] Kamilion: I know, making a kernel also likes to eat computers :) [15:10] nah, only if you -j cores+1 [15:10] But, a multi core machine with RAM to spare would be put to good use. M elodie will tell you that i host an area for her and that I have sent HDDs (which took a bit of hacking to get to work) and RAM for her projects [15:10] Kamilion: not a smart move on a domestic laptop :P [15:10] yeah, not much ram to spare... it may have came in the door with 256GB, but it's got 32GB now. [15:11] I'm patient :) [15:11] I'm merely doubling what I currently have, 16GB. [15:11] and, uh, I'm REALLY pushing the limits of it [15:12] Kamilion the issue was on the cpus only. the machine failed because the cpu where waiting to get some free time which they never did, and after 15 or 20 minutes, I just used the sysrq keys [15:12] hundreds of tabs and two or three local vms, and three blades worth of remote VMs to manage all from the same physical node I sit in front of [15:12] melodie: aye; I'll look into setting the process' nice value [15:12] oh the joys of step releases.... utopic --> vivid --> wily [15:12] and on the T410 all 4 cores (2 cores 4 threads) are highly used, while the ram is very quiet [15:12] ram use [15:12] that way CPU does not go idle, but other applications may preempt the compression task [15:13] I don't know what can be done on the side of the python code, all I can say is that ubuntu builder never produced that effect (though it produced other bad side effects) [15:16] ah ha!! actually Kamilion how familiar are you with the install script that *buntu uses ? [15:17] phillw that's in the server, the build machine. you put in seeds, it puts out isos. [15:18] the people at #ubuntu-devel would know things about them... [15:18] Kamilion what do you think? [15:19] melodie: I'm referring to to installer script... ubuntu-devel refuse to make a couple of changes so that it can do what it used to do. i guess they where hard coded by some bloody code monkey to be release specific instead of release agnostic. [15:20] what did it use to do that it doesn't do anymore? [15:21] phillw: ubuiquity? Somewhat familiar but not really. [15:21] and are you talking about the installer for the live desktop, or for the text mode install? [15:21] melodie: 2 things.... 1) the alternate installer ignores the image and goes for net install. 2) alternate image can not be used as a source for upgrading from one release to the next, even though it has all the new files needed. [15:22] have you filed a bug report? [15:22] Kamilion: I would not piss on ubiquity if it were on fire :D (apologies for language, melodie ) [15:22] or several? [15:22] phillw: me either, but I could say that about a lot of canonical's 'needless innovation'. [15:22] phillw fun you fancy acting organically on a software [15:22] melodie: it is "Won't Fix" as they hate lubuntu sticking to alternate images [15:22] they have a severe habit of NIH [15:23] Kamilion can you translate "NIH" for me? [15:23] phillw: okay, so then, perhaps we should change the model we operate under [15:23] melodie: Not Invented Here [15:23] ok [15:23] phillw: if this has become a problem in code; perhaps we can change the workflow instead. [15:24] we have an end result to achieve, and no real constraints on how to achieve it [15:24] Kamilion can Customizer work with alternate? [15:25] Kamilion: I was told that if I found someone to look at the script, i could re-file the bug with the proposed fixes... so, hope has always remained eternal. For an example, lubuntu 15.10 alternate is the ONLY one in the family to be CD sized. I know my boss considers it a bit of a PITA, but he also does know that we will abandon alternate "with all guns blazing" :) [15:28] letting alternate do what it can do, would be a wake up call... If you have more than 1 computer to upgrade - why use the internet? The alternate ISO will do it from CD. For groups / schools where bandwidth is slow and / or charged by the Mb, the alternate image would make a big difference to them. Sadly, Canonical now think everyone has 100 Mb/s links with no data charge. :'( [15:29] [15:32] hm, know what language it's written in? [15:33] not sure.... let me have a dig [15:35] Kamilion: looks like shell script [15:35] i have skill in bash and python [15:36] so as long as it's bash script and not generic platform independant sh shell script, i can have a crack at it [15:36] phillw: the other issue you guys have, is, um, your squashfs really isn't well compressed. [15:37] I shave about a 50-60MB off it by switching to the xz compression [15:37] more if the -Xbcj filters are enabled, but that increases compression time [15:37] (but it's LP doing the normal builds...) [15:38] Kamilion: I can pass that up to julien to see if it can be implemented as the alternate iso is always a size issue and ~50 Mb would be a welcome buffer :) [15:38] the alternate iso doesn't really use squashfs, it's mostly a debian package repository on cd [15:39] AFAIK they can do almost everything inside of the initrd [15:39] no, it has no LiveCD function [15:39] so they have no need of unpacking/mounting a squashfs [15:39] but the script is ignoring the local media and looking to net install. [15:39] oh [15:39] ... huh. [15:39] yeah, that's not right. [15:40] I know it was working not too long ago too [15:40] sec [15:40] Y'know why I know? [15:40] it USED to look at local media, hence my thinking it was a hack using release name / i.d. [15:40] I had to figure out how to turn it off. [15:41] I had a sneaking feeling you may have come across that :) [15:42] the wonderful thing about the script is that once I see it looking to the internet and disconnect, it pauses for about 45 seconds and then falls back to using the bloody ISO !!! [15:43] found it [15:43] https://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-core/commit/6f8dbf70c30c1fd82e256621449f0e2481f1de88 [15:43] so, to this mere mortal. it seems a simple case of priority is the wrong way round. [15:44] september 17th, [15:44] +# Disable trying to import a package pool from the cdrom media. [15:44] +rm /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/41apt_cdrom [15:45] is that a ubiquity script or the alternate script? [15:45] to note: I remove the package pool from the cdrom, as I've already got build-essential in the image, so the gcc packages in the package pool are not needed [15:45] neither, that's part of the livecd's bootscripts [15:45] which may also be used in the alternate installer to launch the installer [15:46] ah, okies. [15:46] but monkeying around at that point in boot might be able to patch something further down the line [15:46] that technique is used a lot to mutate the livecd to run in live mode [15:47] then that squashfs gets unpacked to the target / [15:47] so the squashfs can't be full of livecd hacks and stuff [15:47] something in initramfs-tools has to 'reach forward' and patch it in ram while the livecd's running. [15:47] the same may be true in the alternate installer. [15:48] i don't know if it uses casper or not [15:48] as the whole reason I build kamikazi is because serial terminals are for chumps [15:48] and I mean that as the VT220 style external serial terminals [15:50] or the cyclades 32-port serial over IP boxes used in server racks to provide out of band management [15:50] Kamilion: this seems to go round in circles, but as you are allowed on that irc channel, they may be able to better point out the link. http://askubuntu.com/questions/202697/where-is-the-source-code-for-alternate-cd-installer [15:50] when your only *choice* is a dumb serial port for out of band management, it sucks. [15:51] uh [15:51] oh, wow, subversion [15:51] I havn't seen that in forever [15:51] got a debian DD to sponsor the patch to upstream? [15:51] *choice* is a dumb serial port == politician [15:52] phillw: no, i mean it [15:52] IPMI1.5 gives you 'serial over lan' redirection of one COM port [15:52] that's it [15:52] that's your only out of band console outside of the system's own network ports. :< [15:52] I have my means, yes. Our head of dev can get things "done" :) [15:52] thankfully, it supports VT-UTF8 [15:52] otherwise I'd go insane [15:53] okie dokie. [15:54] Kamilion: I'd recommend asking for the link to what ever *buntu use on their channel. [15:54] ugh, then I have to deal with bzr [15:55] * Kamilion whines about not being able to use git as a source control system... such a first world problem... lol [15:55] ask away, but it is always better not to mention my name :) I'm Voldemort [15:56] that's the potter thing with the anagram name, right? [15:56] Tom Riddle? [15:56] Almost no witch or wizard dares to speak his name, instead referring to him by epithets such as "You-Know-Who", "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" or "the Dark Lord". [15:56] sheesh, been at least six or seven years since I read those books, too [15:57] yeah, yeah, not a muggle, thanks. [15:57] I am persona non gratis with a lot of them :) [15:57] of the shadowy lubuntu cabal [15:58] oooh, the mystique. [15:58] I bet you get a cool cape and everything. [15:58] Nah, of the incompetent ass holes who are the -release team who fail to instigate milestone steps ans ignore release managers. [15:58] and a pointy hat. [15:59] eh, their aims are just a little different [15:59] and perhaps they lack experience [16:00] but I've always tried to go by "if you meet an asshole in the morning, then you met an asshole. if you meet assholes all day, you're the asshole." [16:00] eww I don't like stuff written on napkins orginally [16:00] Nah, a cactus shaped dildo that was shoved up their collective ass holes. I'm actually amazed the guy over kubuntu put up with it as long as he did. Eventually, even he told them to go forth and multiply [16:00] yeah, poor jonathan [16:01] a victim of corporatization and the spaceballs II joke [16:01] And Liz has also jacked in CC .... [16:01] (they advertised a second movie in the first one, "Spaceballs II: The search for more money" [16:01] it never appeared to my knowledge. :d [16:02] phillw did you see his fossdem 2014 speech, do you have to be brain damaged to care about the linux desktop [16:02] they were, however, prophetic as disney is bringing out more star wars :D [16:02] I see it as a tool problem, guys. [16:03] Heh I still find it funny how I never get pinged for Liz then it just happens once in a while. [16:03] I would have shat out a million little configuration tools by now... but writing GUI apps in a text editor is... tiring, to say the least. [16:04] I lack the motivation to go through so much effort for something that microsoft visual basic got half right in 1997 [16:04] sorry Eliz [16:05] and nobody but QT and Unity technogolies have really any idea on how to improve it drastically [16:05] Not your fault [16:05] Amusing. [16:06] both of them, currently driven by a lot of profit in sharing some, but not all, of their deck of cards [16:06] she is pleia2 on IRC.. currently in Japan at OpenStack conference [16:06] oh, princess leia too. I've seen her from time to time. [16:07] can't recall conversing. [16:07] yeah she has been getting more and more busy with work lately [16:07] She is a wise head, who I can turn to for advice. She will be missed on CC [16:07] ianorlin: no, she disliked the smell of where it was heading. [16:08] just a reminder, this is -devel [16:09] oops [16:09] yup, we should all be on #phillw :D there is a log bot here! [16:10] well, discussions about people's personal motiviations and situations should be moved outside, yeah. [16:10] but, devel is all about open sky thinking :) [16:11] I doubt anyone will really read these logs until the AIs show up and start showing interest in their origins. [16:11] anyway, I was kind of getting onto the topic of QT [16:12] * phillw would have bought tickets to sit in the Oracle board room meeting when the MySQL guys, who they thought that they had 'bought' went.. Up-yours, hello to MariaDB :D [16:12] http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qt3d-index.html <--- experimental in 5.5, a landed feature in 5.6 [16:13] it is finally possible to use a visual application designer... [16:13] yeah, the Qt4 --> Qt5 was not best timed for lubuntu wanting to migrate, but that is life :) [16:13] but, what's driving it? [16:13] Haing said that, it could have far worse! [16:14] http://v-play.net/2015/07/qt-3d-game-engine-with-qt-5-5-and-v-play-game-engine/ <--- this is. QT is making a play for the games industry. [16:14] +been [16:14] but the punch in the crotch? [16:15] They need to monetize their product, so no LGPLv3. [16:16] nah, the guys and gals are quietly moving from Qt4 to Qt5 ... not quite sure why quipzilla is failing to build, but I'm sure they are on the case. [16:16] they took a bunch of components and put them together. Then turned the glue code into a product... and now we lose a vital ability for anyone to be able to write a cross platform application [16:16] in the lubuntu ppa [16:17] ianorlin: yup, Julien has been re-organsing things, it is still 'off-line' as the last update I had [16:17] http://www.m-cubed.com/static/pdf/ <--- have a look under the 'dell' section [16:17] I have been using the repo version as my main driver for a while [16:18] they want me to do a lot more of this... [16:18] and I have no way to do it FOSS without taking 3 years to get to the point right there on my own [16:18] that whole thing took me no more than 20 minutes, *during a meeting* [16:20] it took me more time to search google for the image of the dell R210-II PC and use gimp's color to alpha to convert the white background to transparency than it did to make it bounce and move around and generally act like what people kind of expect a modern PC to be able to do [16:21] but the one thing I can't get this thing to do? F--king deal with stdin and stdout. >.< [16:22] I've tried like eleven ways [16:22]