=== ara is now known as Guest43853 === AndChat|486164 is now known as rickardve2 === greyback__ is now known as greyback [14:59] dschoen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerTeam === JMulholland_ is now known as JMulholland === JMulholland_ is now known as JMulholland === Guest7778 is now known as ZeeNoodleyGamer === ZeeNoodleyGamer is now known as Iota-Spencer === greyback__ is now known as greyback [22:45] hello! [22:46] o/ [22:46] I would need advice to where ask help to continue working on debugging a dependency issue in a Wily minimalist start of build (for a remix) [22:46] hi teward ! [22:46] here is the bug: [22:46] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/obconf/+bug/1510709 [22:46] Launchpad bug 1510709 in obconf (Ubuntu) "In Wily Obconf and other GTK related packages pull many unneeded packages" [Undecided,Incomplete] [22:47] melodie: read wxl's comment [22:47] what does he say to do? [22:47] specifically comment #6 [22:47] and #3 [22:47] wxl: you should probably wake up and stop by [22:48] yep, as i said, you should start with debian. [22:48] gtk maintainers: if I only know how to use redepends properly? [22:48] hi wxl [22:48] and it shouldn't be a complaint about obconf but gtk. [22:48] wxl sure, just it started with obconf but now I don't know where to restart from. [22:49] melodie: gtk maintainers for debian. [22:49] this is why I'll need some help and I'm willing to take all the time it needs : just not too much time at each session [22:49] wxl: wouldn't filing a bug against libgtk-3-common in Debian be equally effective? [22:49] or am I missing something> [22:50] * teward hasn't reviewed the bug completely [22:50] teward: that's kind of what i'm suggesting, but i'm not sure this is likely to actually be a bug [22:50] dependencies change [22:50] wxl which gtk package should I specifically target? and how to bring in the topic? [22:50] she *feels* like it's a bug that there are additional dependencies [22:50] melodie: here's the package that requires the theme, for example https://packages.debian.org/sid/libgtk-3-common [22:50] wxl I'm sure it could be possible to avoid the 3 themes and 183 to 187 MB depends, depending on the gtk program pulled in [22:50] i think there's another consideration point though - the fact that this is being done for a remix [22:51] do we consider a remix (Bento Openbox Remix) a valid derivative [22:51] in which case if "No" is the answer, this is likely opinion or invalid [22:51] even connman-ui brings almost 200MB in! the same 3 themes appear again! [22:51] teward: i think if we ignore that fact, however, the additional dependencies COULD be a problem [22:52] teward the remixes with Openbox that I produce have always brought up issues such as this one once a while : for the benefit of all. [22:52] teward: at least to someone who doesn't want a bunch of additional dependencies, which, for example, a lubuntu dev might care about [22:52] wxl: but as Lubuntu's moving away from GTK it's a non-issue for Lubuntu [22:52] which is what I think yo usaid [22:52] teward: exactly, but still, someone might care [22:52] mmm [22:52] indeed, a very basic setup will show some issues or flaws, which makes them fixed before they cause trouble in more elaborate desktops [22:52] very often, at least [22:52] the way i look at it is i don't really give a hoot about it but i'm happy to give melodie the information she needs to move forward XD [22:53] and we will have gtk in 16.04 [22:53] who maintains GTK here in Ubuntu? [22:53] i would not like to have a lubuntu lts with ubuntu-mono in it. that seems kind of problematic. [22:53] is that the Desktop team? [22:53] or Universe [22:53] about Lubuntu and Qt, I have found a very strange dependency issue when I tried to install ubiquity :/ [22:53] teward: dunno http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/libgtk-3-common [22:54] so honestly it's kind of a two part issue: [22:54] debian gnome maintainers [22:55] I'm not going to do what I have in mind just tonight, but for tomorrow or next evening I can prepare a pastebin with the result of my attempts to install some of these packages I consider installing, which bring tons of them, which I find strangely 'bloated' [22:55] 1. get debian to perhaps resolve the dependencies that seem to come with gtk [22:55] 2. get ubuntu to resolve the weird ubuntu-mono dependency (which to me makes no sense) [22:55] melodie: i don't think that additional information is necessary, except perhaps a comparison between what it was for the last cycle versus this one [22:55] wxl: sounds like something Laney should look at? [22:55] melodie: then i would present those to the maintainers [22:56] teward: your guess is as good as mine honestly [22:56] mmm [22:56] ahhhh [22:56] the ubuntu-mono dependency is here http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/adwaita-icon-theme [22:56] which naturally does not inculde ubuntu-mono in the similar package in debian [22:57] but oddly it includes no mono at all [22:57] so that's an Ubuntu specific bug? [22:57] yes [22:57] so i would file a bug against that, melodie [22:57] a separate one [22:57] want me to invalid the current bug? [22:57] perhaps what really would be best is to redescribe it as a gtk bug [22:58] indeed [22:58] and then we can triage it with an upstream bug [22:58] wxl teward : I can work on redoing a minimalist 15.04, with the same set of packages (let's say I create a script, and while doing that, I install one package or one set of packages at a time, and note the result in the draft of the future script) and then I redo the same for Wily, so we can compare? [22:58] and get rid of the unnecessary context of making an unsupported remix XD [22:58] would that help? [22:58] * teward disappears to fix a switch that's causing headaches [22:58] teward wxl [22:58] teward I can rename it! [22:58] then go ahead :) [22:59] just tell me what I have to rename it and I do [22:59] * teward still goes to fix the switch [22:59] i think i would just do "apt-rdepends " for both 15.10 and 15.04 [22:59] something like "wily gtk has additional dependencies as compared to vivid" [22:59] would this "In Wily GTK related packages pull many unneeded packages" do? [23:00] don't use the word "unneeded" [23:00] they may be needed [23:00] things may have changed [23:00] and perhaps it's not a bug [23:00] wxl I tried to do that against "ubuntu-mono" and didn't understand the results [23:00] apt-rdepends gives you every single package a particular package depends on [23:00] so what is needed from my side would probably be the facts : what I meet with, for each package.. [23:01] where as apt-cache rdepends gives you every single package that depends on a particular package [23:01] and a keen dev might know where to look and how to read his rdepends and else results? [23:01] so what you want is apt-rdepends [23:01] it's recusrive so it will really list EVERY dependency [23:01] then you compare the two [23:01] for example, you will not find ubuntu-mono in the earlier one [23:02] wxl this is what I have done for ubuntu-mono, but I'm sure I don't know how to do that properly and how to pin point the very guilty package [23:02] but you will also not find adwaita-icon-theme [23:02] just do a diff between them [23:02] or just post them up and let someone else do it [23:02] you lost me [23:03] look here: [23:03] http://packages.ubuntu.com/vivid-updates/libgtk-3-common [23:03] versus [23:03] http://packages.ubuntu.com/wily/libgtk-3-common [23:03] do you see any OBVIOUS differences? [23:03] sorry I used 3 hours of my afternoon doing a demonstration of "gnu/linux" with Bento Openbox on two machines that have some windows, for a lady who works in the school academy and my brain is not working at it's best [23:03] ok well the obvious difference is adwaita-icon-theme [23:03] oh! [23:04] that's a lead for me: right? [23:04] if you would have done apt-rdepends on libgtk-3-common you would have found that out [23:04] assuming you did it on a vivid system and separately did it on a wily system [23:04] ok, I'll redo what you say and continue from that, right? [23:04] the the theme would have been in the list on wily but not on vivid [23:04] this sounds feasable for me (starting from tomorrow) [23:05] the beenfit to using rdepends is that it's recusive [23:05] recursive that is [23:05] it will give you the ENTIRE list of dependencies, the dependencies of every dependency and so on [23:05] yes, but I didn't know how to use it or read the result the right way [23:05] you seem to have reached the aim more easily than I did [23:05] like i said, you look for things that are on one list that aren't on the other [23:05] i just scanned the list for problem children [23:05] look for patterns :) [23:06] aha [23:06] you SHOULD be able to use diff but you'd have to grep out the version numbers [23:06] children : this is a family matter [23:06] hehehe [23:06] wxl it's ok, don't explain me more, I get a lead I'll follow it [23:07] melodie: so the goals i would make for yourself are as such: [23:07] 1. update the current bug [23:07] 1. change the title as above [23:07] as I tell you, I'm not fully functional at this time, but I wanted to let people here know I was still on the issue and very much interested to contribute to improve the situation here. [23:07] wxl is that : "In Wily GTK related packages pull many unneeded packages" [23:08] ok for the modified title? [23:08] 2. change the description to be really terse. among other things, don't mention the remix. some people will ignore it as unsupported just because of that. [23:08] ok [23:08] melodie: yes, but change unneeded to additional [23:08] 3. attach the results of the rdepends comparison [23:08] so instead of talking of the remix, I state I build for myself? or what? [23:08] I don't like to hide the facts [23:09] ok [23:09] 4. file a bug upstream at debian and make a reference on each bug to the other [23:09] melodie: it's irrelevant to the bug. the bug is that there are additional packages that are unexpected. that's all that matters. [23:09] "In Wily some GTK related packages pull many additional packages" [23:10] let me see how I can do that part [23:10] 2. make a new bug "adwaita-icon-theme requires ubuntu-mono in wily" [23:11] i just noticed now that ubuntu-mono is not the same as mono though. it's just an icon theme. so that may be a non issue. in fact, that removes my personal concern about it :) [23:11] !info ubuntu-mono [23:11] ubuntu-mono (source: ubuntu-themes): Ubuntu Mono Icon theme. In component main, is optional. Version 14.04+15.04.20150410-0ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 179 kB, installed size 4138 kB [23:11] 4138kB on no XD [23:12] wxl I just modified the initial message, would you look? [23:13] wxl ubuntu-mono and adwaita-icon-theme might be tangled in a way that allows one to sit on the other [23:13] melodie: perhaps [23:14] one brings additional icons, and uses the other as it improves it [23:14] title is good [23:14] thanks [23:14] just need to trim up description [23:14] I did? [23:14] just 2 seconds ago [23:14] would you refresh? [23:15] no not the TITLE [23:15] the DESCRIPTION [23:15] ? [23:15] the part that starts with: [23:15] Hello, [23:15] I start building a minimalist install with Openbox and I meet with the following issues: [23:16] if you attach the rdepends then i can change what it affects but temporarily i'll do libgtk-3-0 [23:16] "oh! [23:16] attends [23:16] wait :) [23:16] I have to ssh the working machine [23:17] well actually i think they're all under the same source package [23:17] yes they are [23:17] so i have it set correctly [23:19] I'm on it [23:21] wxl one attachment will have for title and content: wily_apt-rdepends libgtk-3-common.txt [23:21] no wait [23:21] wily_apt-rdepends libgtk-3-common.txt [23:22] where is the - ? o_O [23:22] heheh [23:22] melodie: if i were you i'd run it against libgtk-3-0 though [23:22] wily_apt-rdepends-libgtk-3-common.txt [23:22] is that the better choice? Let me see [23:22] yes because that's the "main" gtk library [23:23] so that will allow us to see if anything else might be an issue [23:23] OH [23:23] and i should mention it would be wise to compare wheezy with jessie in debian [23:24] so ideally you have a wheezy and jessie vm and do the rdepends there [23:24] at least when you file the debian bug [23:24] and you should note that it has affected every version since jessie, including stretch and jessie [23:24] euh... [23:25] Jessie has Wheezy before, right? and Stretch was before Wheezy? [23:25] it's wheezy then jessie then stretch then sid [23:25] listed in order in the top right of https://packages.debian.org/sid/libgtk-3-common [23:26] ok [23:26] this seems a long shot, but worth it [23:27] here the new file text name and content: wily_apt-rdepends-libgtk-3-0.txt [23:27] for wily [23:27] should I bring both or only the latter? [23:27] I will redo that in Vivid, which is my current system [23:27] one for wily libgtk-3-0 and one for vivid [23:27] no need for the libgtk-3-commons [23:27] ok [23:27] ok [23:28] the only reason i was using that as an example is because its immediate dependency is something we know wasn't there before [23:28] ok brb [23:28] ok [23:29] my next question will be simple, which Debian is not too large which can be installed? I'll have to seek for a lxde Debian probably (but I have resources for this one question, most probably) [23:30] oh man i'm not sure to be honest O_O [23:30] i know there is an lxde one [23:31] or at least that they offer that as an option [23:31] default de is gnome tho [23:31] which is to say they like their gtk XD [23:32] brb again [23:34] :) [23:34] Debian netinstall used to be my favorite [23:35] back [23:35] i honestly haven't installed debian in a loooooooooooooong time [23:38] no problem [23:39] I guess I can do a netinstall the same way I pick up UMR and install the needed packages in it. I just have to be carefull to start with the xorg suite and continue with the system packages before hitting the ones for the environment